PDA

View Full Version : Legions of Middle Earth, and the 33% bow cap.



ChrisIronBrow
24-01-2012, 22:42
So, I'm just about to jump back into this wonderful game. My LGS has a growing community of LOTR players and there's a lot of excitement right now about it. That said. I was all ready to play Rohan, an all rider force, when I discovered that they changed the rules on me. My book. ( the return of the king softcover that came in the set) is not showing the right points for things anymore I guess. And everyone is playing based on the Legions of middle earth rules.

Which leaves me stuck. 33% bow cap is hard when every rider of rohan comes equipped with a bow. Does this really mean I can't field all riders? Why would they do this?

Honestly I probably will just pick a different faction if that's true. But I really want to make it work.

Any Advice?

Dr Grant
25-01-2012, 00:39
So this is what my first post will be about :-)

Happy to bear good news! There's a couple of places (can't remember exactly but I'm pretty sure an FAQ in LOME is one) that state that only models who are actually holding bows count as being armed with them. For all intents and purposes the other riders abandon their bows. This applies to other troops too, Harradrim cavalry for one though there may be more.

There's gonna be a new book out in a few weeks covering all the disparate Rohan (and other realms of men) rules that will almost certainly cover this (along with a bunch of other clarifications) which you might want to pick up.

Hope this helps!

Whitwort Stormbringer
25-01-2012, 01:33
So, I'm just about to jump back into this wonderful game. My LGS has a growing community of LOTR players and there's a lot of excitement right now about it. That said. I was all ready to play Rohan, an all rider force, when I discovered that they changed the rules on me. My book. ( the return of the king softcover that came in the set) is not showing the right points for things anymore I guess. And everyone is playing based on the Legions of middle earth rules.

Which leaves me stuck. 33% bow cap is hard when every rider of rohan comes equipped with a bow. Does this really mean I can't field all riders? Why would they do this?

Honestly I probably will just pick a different faction if that's true. But I really want to make it work.

Any Advice?

You could just ask if the other players will let you drop the bows off of some of your riders, and distinguish them in some way from the others.

ChrisIronBrow
25-01-2012, 04:15
Yeah, I guess I'm just shocked that Rohan can't take an all riders force. Though I guess I coudl do it if they were royal guard mounted. So, I might just proxy riders as royal guard.

Peregrin
25-01-2012, 12:59
The hardcover rulebook specifically allows the riders as is, but only 33% of the models can be holding bows. An all rider force is fine.

Zogash
25-01-2012, 18:26
The hardcover rulebook specifically allows the riders as is, but only 33% of the models can be holding bows. An all rider force is fine.

Suit yourself. I don't think that having to pay the points for bows and then not be allowed to use them is 'fine'. I'd be ok with the only-the-shooting-guys-count-as-having-bows ruling if it included something like 'any Riders not armed with a bow reduce their cost by 1 point (or 2, arguably)'. This will most definitely be revamped in some form or another in the upcoming re-release, so until then just suck it up and go ahead with the current rules/cost. Just don't expect to be very competitive. ;)

ChrisIronBrow
25-01-2012, 19:59
Suit yourself. I don't think that having to pay the points for bows and then not be allowed to use them is 'fine'. I'd be ok with the only-the-shooting-guys-count-as-having-bows ruling if it included something like 'any Riders not armed with a bow reduce their cost by 1 point (or 2, arguably)'. This will most definitely be revamped in some form or another in the upcoming re-release, so until then just suck it up and go ahead with the current rules/cost. Just don't expect to be very competitive. ;) I've heard similiar to this a few times. Is Rohan that bad? What's wrong with them?

Whitwort Stormbringer
25-01-2012, 20:52
I've heard similiar to this a few times. Is Rohan that bad? What's wrong with them?
Some people think they're worse than others. For a while one of their major drawbacks was no real powerhouse heroes, but then they got Eomer, Marshal of the Mark to rectify that. I think more than anything else they're just lacking in diversity of units and the biggie is that, whereas with the release of TTT they had the best (and pretty much only) cavalry in the game other factions have since received better cavalry that comes in plastic sets so they're equally affordable. Basically they've kind of been overshadowed, especially by Harad light cavalry.

At least, that's the complaint I hear most often. I haven't found them to be so bad, really, but then we don't enforce the 33% bow limit either.

Peregrin
26-01-2012, 13:49
Suit yourself. I don't think that having to pay the points for bows and then not be allowed to use them is 'fine'....

I was refering to it being permissable rule wise. You're right. It's not smart to pay for an ability you can't use.
The most consistant complaints about LotR SBG on these boards seems to be that Rohan is not competative.
Hopefully this is dealt with in the new 'Codex' for men. I enjoy using them in WotR, but haven't done much with them in the SBG myself.

ChrisIronBrow
26-01-2012, 21:24
I was refering to it being permissable rule wise. You're right. It's not smart to pay for an ability you can't use.
The most consistant complaints about LotR SBG on these boards seems to be that Rohan is not competative.
Hopefully this is dealt with in the new 'Codex' for men. I enjoy using them in WotR, but haven't done much with them in the SBG myself.

That makes sense. Especially since your not just paying for the bows, but also the bows + shields ability. Either way. I'm just feeling to strong of a pull from Rohan, I don't get inspired by any other choice.

"Forth Eorlingas!"

yabbadabba
27-01-2012, 08:18
The most consistant complaints about LotR SBG on these boards seems to be that Rohan is not competative Well they can't be that bad as they have been used to win the LotR GT. On more than one occasion I believe as well.

I was refering to it being permissable rule wise. You're right. It's not smart to pay for an ability you can't use. Hmm I need to check my book, but I seem to remember at the time we thought RoR lacked serious punch but were cheap for their points. I suppose I better add that the 33% came in within a couple of months of LotR FotR veing released, yet the points remained consistent throughout all the other books.

Peregrin
27-01-2012, 12:29
From what I've seen, some of the complaints presented on these boards, though valid, are situational. There are a lot of comments of how 'broken' WotR is, for instance. There are definitely some figure and ability combos that are hard to beat, but I play a lot of different games and WotR is one of the least 'broken', in my experience. The players in our group are probably less competative, though, as we don't have supported tournaments for any of the LotR stuff in our area.

I haven't had the chance to test my Rohirim army in SBG, but they are challenging to use in WotR and SBG players on these boards seem to feel its worse in the skirmish game. I enjoy using them, but when I win with them its by out playing my opponents rather than winning by team building before the game starts.... not very Sun Tzu, but still.

Spiney Norman
28-01-2012, 01:05
Some people think they're worse than others. For a while one of their major drawbacks was no real powerhouse heroes, but then they got Eomer, Marshal of the Mark to rectify that. I think more than anything else they're just lacking in diversity of units and the biggie is that, whereas with the release of TTT they had the best (and pretty much only) cavalry in the game other factions have since received better cavalry that comes in plastic sets so they're equally affordable. Basically they've kind of been overshadowed, especially by Harad light cavalry.

At least, that's the complaint I hear most often. I haven't found them to be so bad, really, but then we don't enforce the 33% bow limit either.

Rohan are fine now, they got cheap str 4 infantry with the release of Helmingas (which is something a lot of good factions don't have access to), a powerhouse hero with Eomers upgraded profile and one of the best elite cavalry units in the game with the Sons of Eorl. There are a few niggles with the list, like how Theoden is still the worst value hero in the entire game, but you don't have to use him, even if he is the coolest hero in the movies.

The reason many people have problems with Rohan in SBG is they try to field them as a fully mounted force. Cavalry just doesn't work well that way in SBG but a mixed foot/mounted Rohan force can actually be very powerful, diverse and tactical.

yabbadabba
28-01-2012, 08:31
There are a few niggles with the list, like how Theoden is still the worst value hero in the entire game, but you don't have to use him, even if he is the coolest hero in the movies. More worse than Denethor?

Spiney Norman
29-01-2012, 21:32
More worse than Denethor?

Am I missing something about Denethor? His profile is pretty good for only 30pts and he's not likely to fail a courage test for several turns due to a high courage and 3 will. I think he will be quite popular with the new rules assuming he hasn't changed very much, as a cheap warband leader.

yabbadabba
29-01-2012, 21:37
Are you talking SBG or WotR?

Peregrin
30-01-2012, 15:23
LoME - We should be talking SBG.

SN - I switched to WotR before getting LoME or any of the suppliments, so I'm just going from the One Book rules. They don't have the upgrades you mention so theres a marked lack of choices in the core set. I'm really looking forward to picking up the Kindom of Men codex in February now.... my other WotR army is Minas Tirith based, so it's the perfect suppliment to get me back into the SBG. (Still love WotR for the sheer size of the armies).

Jedi Christian
30-01-2012, 19:28
I'm a new player and i wonder if this book is worth buying now that the new materials are coming out. I have a lead on one and wonder if i should buy it or not.
Thanks

bufordbugman
30-01-2012, 21:24
The reason many people have problems with Rohan in SBG is they try to field them as a fully mounted force. Cavalry just doesn't work well that way in SBG but a mixed foot/mounted Rohan force can actually be very powerful, diverse and tactical.

Agreed. The main problem with Rohan is that they feature cav and the SBG rules put cav at a disadvantage in a large, slog it out fight, which most scenarios end up in at some point. So an all-cav list (which I love to take with my Rohirrim!) will be at a decided disadvantage in most, though not all, scenarios. You can easily ally-in big-point non-Rohan heroes if you miss them in the Rohan list. A mixed infantry/cav Rohan list can be perfectly competitive.

Note that scenarios in the journey books don't have the 33% rule. So in the one with Eomer's cav band confronting the orcs holding Merry and Pippin, all the riders have bows -- and they need them to win that game.