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View Full Version : Sliding, maximizing, oh the horror :(



Idura
25-01-2012, 08:08
Ok, two messy paint jobs here. I am so confused by the maximizing/slide rules.

Second picture, the grave guard charges the single troll, in doing so they end up clipping one black orc. They are maximized against the troll they charged. Does the troll and the black orcs both slide to the left so they will maximize totally? Or is it the charging player that maximizes his target of charge?

First picture, the trolls and skeletons are engaged since the last round. The black orcs chargs the skeletons, clipping their edge. Do they get to slide the trolls to the left to get more black orcs into base contact even though the skeletons and trolls already are maximized?

Last question. If the trolls would slide in the last picture and by doing so denying a unit of say Zombies that are next to the skeletons a possible flank charge. Instead causing them to clip like the black orcs in the same picture. Is that ok? Seems very sketchy...

Sorry bout the ugly pictures/bad explanations. Hope you understand me anyway. I don't like winning games if im interpreting the rules wrong :(.

130268130269

theunwantedbeing
25-01-2012, 08:19
First off, sliding is done at the end of the combat round not before the combat.

So in example one, you are charging two units at the same time so need to maximise against both units by utilising a wheel during the charge move.
The units getting charged do not move unless they chose to flee.

In the second example the black orcs are stuck clipping untill enough trolls are dead to allow them to perform a combat reform which will in effect be sliding the unit along. Remember the entire back rank of a unit has to be dead before you can take models from the front rank.

In the last question, what you are asking is illegal and cannot be done as you are not allowed to slide out of combat, only further in (I cannot state this enough, you only slide during a combat reform at the end of the combat, never any other time).

T10
25-01-2012, 08:34
There is no sliding, only wheeling: Wheel once before contact to maximize the number of models fighting, wheel once if necessary to align ("closing the door"). Also, the target unit may need to wheel to align if the chargers have made contact but cannot complete the wheel to close the door.

First Picture: No sliding.

Second picture: No sliding. The Troll should be at least 1" away from the Black Orcs, so the 20 mm base Grave Guard should be able to have it's rightmost model corner-to-corner with the Troll without contacting the Black Orcs in any way.

Last question: No sliding.

Notice, however, that you may effectively shift a unit left or right using a combat reform. I won't go into the details, just bear in mind that the center of the unit does not have to remain in the same place when making a combat reform. Also, any models in-base contact with an enemy before making the combat reform must be in contact with at least one enemy (though not necessarily the same enemies) after the combat reform.

-T10

Idura
25-01-2012, 08:42
Ahh... now i get it. We've been sliding to maximize after we did a straight ahead charge... We're supposed to maximize _during_ with the wheel. Thank you :). The first one we played wrong (would have been 5-6 more blackorc attacks coming at the GG), The second example we played right. The third is moot due to not being allowed to slide after the charge.

Thanks a bunch, cleared alot up for me!

Mr_Rose
25-01-2012, 09:58
Note, if the wheel to maximise can't be completed fully for some reason (like there's a big ol' rock in the way or something) then you still don't slide. Sliding was an 'suggested' house-rule in 6e despite being explicitly against the rules, lost even that meagre status in 7e and should never ever be necessary in 8e yet some people still cling to it for reasons that are beyond me.

Fubar
25-01-2012, 11:34
Ok, two messy paint jobs here. I am so confused by the maximizing/slide rules.

Second picture, the grave guard charges the single troll, in doing so they end up clipping one black orc. They are maximized against the troll they charged. Does the troll and the black orcs both slide to the left so they will maximize totally? Or is it the charging player that maximizes his target of charge?

First picture, the trolls and skeletons are engaged since the last round. The black orcs chargs the skeletons, clipping their edge. Do they get to slide the trolls to the left to get more black orcs into base contact even though the skeletons and trolls already are maximized?

Last question. If the trolls would slide in the last picture and by doing so denying a unit of say Zombies that are next to the skeletons a possible flank charge. Instead causing them to clip like the black orcs in the same picture. Is that ok? Seems very sketchy...

Sorry bout the ugly pictures/bad explanations. Hope you understand me anyway. I don't like winning games if im interpreting the rules wrong :(.

130268130269

You are not allowed to charge 2 units at the same time, if you cannot contact the unit your charging without contacting another unit, either they need to wheel to you or it's a failed charge.

Fubar
25-01-2012, 11:53
Just to back that up,
Page 22 under Unusual Situations
3rd paragraph

"There is one important principle that you should always keep in mind when charging: under no circumstances can a unit use it's charge move to move into contact with an enemy it has not declared a charge against."

Idura
25-01-2012, 12:24
But afaik you can declare charges on multiple enemies? Don't have rulebook with me here but im quite sure thats legal.

Korraz
25-01-2012, 12:47
Only when there is absolutely no possibility whatsoever to prevent charging a second target. If it's possible that you can charge only one, you can't charge a second one.

T10
25-01-2012, 13:00
As I understand it: If you can't charge unit A without also contacting unit B, but you can charge unit B without also contacting unit A, then you can still declare a charge against both units A and B.

It's not a common situation for me. :)

-T10

Fubar
25-01-2012, 13:01
Only when there is absolutely no possibility whatsoever to prevent charging a second target. If it's possible that you can charge only one, you can't charge a second one.

No, there is no exceptions on this, I'll quote it again in case you didn't see it

"There is one important principle that you should always keep in mind when charging: under no circumstances can a unit use it's charge move to move into contact with an enemy it has not declared a charge against."


If there is no possibility you cannot charge without coming into contact with a second unit then it's a failed charge. In most circumstances you will have to go in at a slight angle, and the unit being charged will have to align to you.

Also to Idura, you can only declare a charge vs one enemy unit at a time, otherwise a terror causing unit would be quite silly causing armies to flee off the table just by looking at them! :)

Korraz
25-01-2012, 13:10
Of course. But isn't there a rule saying, like T10 mentioned, that you can declare a charge against two targets, under special conditions?

Fubar
25-01-2012, 13:12
Of course. But isn't there a rule saying, like T10 mentioned, that you can declare a charge against two targets, under special conditions?

You can but in 99% of circumstances you will be able to make it into contact with just the one unit. I can't really think of a situation when it wouldn't be possible.

Using the top example of the troll and black orcs, the charging unit could wheel 1 inch away to clip the troll then the troll could close the door thus preventing the charge vs the black orcs.

Idura
25-01-2012, 13:22
Yeah my paintsketch is not the best to show how the game actually went :). I had one of my units to the left of the gg effectivly preventing any kind of movement to the left. Hence i could not contact the trolls without contacting the black orcs... (actually ended up killing blow-ing his general in that charge anyway so wasn't that fail).

Fubar
25-01-2012, 13:26
The only way I can think of when you would have to multi charge, is if you had 2 units say 5 wide, charge a unit and then were touching each other in order to maximize. Then those 2 units were charged from behind with a unit of a frontage of more than 5, as long as the backs of those units were level, In order to Maximize it would have to charge both units.

But in most other circumstances the enemy unit would just need to close the door.

Joff1981
25-01-2012, 13:26
No, there is no exceptions on this, I'll quote it again in case you didn't see it

"There is one important principle that you should always keep in mind when charging: under no circumstances can a unit use it's charge move to move into contact with an enemy it has not declared a charge against."


If there is no possibility you cannot charge without coming into contact with a second unit then it's a failed charge. In most circumstances you will have to go in at a slight angle, and the unit being charged will have to align to you.

Also to Idura, you can only declare a charge vs one enemy unit at a time, otherwise a terror causing unit would be quite silly causing armies to flee off the table just by looking at them! :)

You seem to have missed the section on page 18 of the BRB specifically about charging more than one unit. It is possible to do so but only if you cannot contact the unit you wish to charge without also contacting the unit you are clipping and in that instance you must declare a charge against both. This is what the sentence you are quoting is referring to, that if you have not declared a charge against the 2nd unit you are not allowed to contact it.

vardek_4
25-01-2012, 14:55
Another example: If he/she has two 5-wide units aligned between two pieces of impassable terrain and you want to charge with a unit 6-7 wide, you can only charge both or don't charge at all.

|xxxxx xxxxx|
|__________|
|__________|
|xxxxxxx____|

Fubar
25-01-2012, 15:39
Another example: If he/she has two 5-wide units aligned between two pieces of impassable terrain and you want to charge with a unit 6-7 wide, you can only charge both or don't charge at all.

|xxxxx xxxxx|
|__________|
|__________|
|xxxxxxx____|

Although he/she would only need to wheel a tiny amount to make contact as you only need to clip the unit.