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thesoundofmusica
26-01-2012, 17:27
Hi!

I started collecting beastmen a couple of months ago having been away from Warhammer for 3 editions. The army is slowly getting somewhere inbetween mordheim fights and warband painting :)

So I picked up my first box of Minotaurs today. I really like the way they look and I do think they have a place in the army, even tho they are probably just a tad overpriced and very vulnerable for what they cost. Anyways, it got me tinkering with an army list so I would know what to pick up next. I will be going with something like this:

Bray-Shaman lv 2
Dispel scroll
135pts

Wargor BSB
Gnarled hide
125pts

Gor Herd x20
Full command, AHW
185pts

Tuskgor Chariot
80pts

Bestigor x20
Full command
270pts

Minotaurs x3
AHW
177pts

992pts total

Ok so its just a mix of units I think look cool really and I'll try to fit them into some kind of plan =D I dont want my army to be just one huge unit and fillers around it. I will be playing buds with similar experience and competitiveness and I think that if I dont go this way neither will they =P

WoC opponent will be something like this (the battalion box basically):
20 marauders
12 warriors
5 knights
10 hounds
1 killy hero
1 sorc

Got some questions also, like

1) should I drop something for a fighty leader?
2) should I go with greater weapons on minos? I will be fighting WoC and brets, I'm not really sure on their stats. Will GW be overkill? Will I most likely strike last anyways etc?
3) maybe drop something for another shaman and shard of the herdstone?
4) someone at the store said go for 4 minos in 2 ranks, the second rank will get to hit 3 attacks anyways... which does sound like a good idea tbh, anyone?

Any ideas and advice would be appreciated =D

meowser
26-01-2012, 17:40
8 minos would be almost half your army @1k... I'd do a unit of 6 max for this small a game.

I think you'll fare well with the characters you have. Continue to experiment with their magic items.

Your units are all a bit small, but 4 deployments @ 1K is useful. Most beastmen lists I see use lone razorgors and harpies as chaff, and they appear to be quite effective.

meltedwing
26-01-2012, 18:14
You're at 260 hero points if I'm not mistaken. You're supposed to be capped at 250 for a 1k list.

Ister Flersson
26-01-2012, 18:31
The problem with your list is that you have a bit of everything, but nothing is big enough. Drop either the bestigors or the minotaurs and use the points to fill out the remaining units. Also, consider buying the beastbanner for your bsb. Combined with a shaman with the lore of beasts casting wyssans wildform, a unit of gors becomes a force of destruction. Another thing to consider is ungor raiders. Excellent for guarding your flanks or distracting enemy units attempting to counter-attack your units. And of you're feeling lucky, put a few in ambush. Honestly, it's alot better than what people say.

Against Warriors of chaos and Bretonnia great weapons are a good choice. Both armies have high armour saves and you need to get through that somehow.


Great shaman
Level 3, additional hand weapon
202p

Bsb with beastbanner, gnarled hide, heavy armour and shield
206p

30 Gor with additional hand weapons, FC
265p

5 ungor raiders with musician
33

5 ungor raiders with musician
33

Chariot
80p

3 Minotaurs with great weapons
ca180 (I don't have the book on me right now, and I don't remember what great weapons cost)

Put both characters in the Gor unit. Remeber that Great bray-shamans are actually quite good fighters. Run one raider unit of wither side of it. If anything looks to charge your gor unit that you donīt feel like fighting, place the raider directly in front of them at an angle away from your gors. Keep the charioton one side of the gors, use it either to pack an extra punch in a combined charge with the gors or to drive away enemy units trying to lock down your gor the same way you do with your raiders. Personally I donīt use minotaurs. I would prefer to drop them and buy two razorgors, and either more gors or an extra raider unit. But if you do, try to use them as a flanking force. 3 is a small number and you don't want to face an enemy head on with them.

As for magic, never take transformation of kadon. If you roll it, replace it with wyssans wildform. It may sound awesome to have a mountain chimera with 25 attacks, breath weapon and thunderstomp (that DOES sound awesome) but it is too easy to dispel and as such very situational. The important spell you want is wyssans wildform, savage beast of horros and either amber spear or curse of anrahir (remeber that even open terrain counts as dangerous while under the effects of the curse of anrahir).

popisdead
27-01-2012, 21:41
Ister has the right direction. Minotaurs are pricey but can be good as a support unit in only 1000 points.

A reliable good starting point for Beastmen is 30+ Gors and the previously mentioned BSB.

Good luck!

thesoundofmusica
08-02-2012, 16:57
Thx for advice guys. I want the list to be legal and fun with a chance to win without power gaming (no risk of that with beastmen right lol). So no 400+ points on heroes and while I'd really luv the beast banner I cant afford both it and a shaman iirc. Doing points on top of my head at work.

Also the Gors and Minotaurs have to stay, its around these two units I want to build my force. So with that in mind I was thinking something like this:

Bsb wargor
Heavy armor, shield
116p

Shaman lvl 2
Dispel scroll
135p

Gors x30
AHW, full command
265p

Chariot
80p

Chariot
80p

Minotaurs x3
GW
189p

Ungor raiders x5
Champ, musician
39p

Ungor raiders x5
Champ, musician
39p

Razorgor
55p

998 pts

popisdead
08-02-2012, 21:13
The default BSB for Beastmen is Beasts Banner, Gnarled Hide, Heavy Armour, Sheild. Gives you a 2+/6+ (parry) and a unit of 40 Gor S4 :)

If you are taking only 3 Minotaurs Additional HWs. If yours are already modelled with GWs just tell your opponent that you glued them up in 7th ed.

No need to take a champion in a unit of 5 Ungors.

Not sure how to get around needing the additional 90 points for the BSB. other than the Chariot and a unit of Raiders. Hope that helps at least.

thesoundofmusica
08-02-2012, 21:27
Yes I realize the beast banner makes for a much better unit of Gors, but there is still the points issue :D Am I wrong thinking character cap is 25%? I really dont want to drop that shaman. Also for minotaurs, I will be mostly playing WoC and hitting last anyways so GWs did look like a good deal... I could be wrong ofc :)

thesoundofmusica
09-02-2012, 08:17
Apologies.
It seems I was stuck in the old "slot" mentality. I will run Ister's list but drop one unit of raiders to make points for my minotaurs. That will make my list 975pts and just enough for a dispel scroll. I'd luv a razorgor, and if things dont turn out well I'll probably drop the minotaurs for a couple razorgors like suggested. Thx :)

popisdead
09-02-2012, 19:35
I think the two things you should be looking at in 1000 points is a lvl 3 Great Bray-Shaman and perhaps the 206 BSB. At such low points allowance one well done panic test or one failed Primal Fury roll could end the game.

If you wanted a cheaper BSB give him a 4+ Ward or 2+ save and just make sure you get Wissan's off on the Gors. S4/T5 is still pretty good.

You could also consider a magic weapon as VC will have some advantages over you if you don't have any magic missiles (say taking Shadow instead of Beasts which I don't recommend in this set up).

thesoundofmusica
09-02-2012, 20:52
I think the two things you should be looking at in 1000 points is a lvl 3 Great Bray-Shaman and perhaps the 206 BSB. At such low points allowance one well done panic test or one failed Primal Fury roll could end the game.

If you wanted a cheaper BSB give him a 4+ Ward or 2+ save and just make sure you get Wissan's off on the Gors. S4/T5 is still pretty good.

You could also consider a magic weapon as VC will have some advantages over you if you don't have any magic missiles (say taking Shadow instead of Beasts which I don't recommend in this set up).

Where is this 4+ ward? I have the beastman book and the BRB, maybe I should get my glasses =D

I will be facing Bretonnians (my wife) and WoC (a bud). I dont do store fights or tournies. Eventually I'll be facing HEs (buds GF).

So with that in mind, Minotaurs with GWs will perform better against bret knights of any kind and WoC warriors and knights. And each attack added from bloodlust will just emphasize the GWs better ratio (doing some mathhammer, I could be wrong again ofc lol).

So should I drop that banner or shaman level for a razorgor? What does experience say? =D

Edit: reading it again, did you perhaps mean that the lvl3 shamans higher LD and the BSB staying alive is vital for panic and primal fury? Did I missunderstand, coz its late here ;)

popisdead
10-02-2012, 20:53
Talisman of Preservation is a 4+ Ward
Armour of Destiny is Heavy Armour and a 4+ Ward
both are in the magic item section in the back of the rulebook.

Ah,.. I see. Using the Minotaurs for Strength 7. Make sure you hit the flank as only Toughness 4 and 3 wounds, they will take some wounds before you attack. Higher Strength (Wissan's Wildform from Lore of Beasts) and the Beasts Banner making Gors S5 with Additional Handweapons will do well to bring down cavalry by just forcing them to roll many 4+ saves.

Experience says single Razorgors are GREAT speedbumps or character assasins (4 S6 attacks against a 2 wound model, on average you should kill a mage). I have three single Razorgors in every 2500 point list I make.


Edit: reading it again, did you perhaps mean that the lvl3 shamans higher LD and the BSB staying alive is vital for panic and primal fury? Did I missunderstand, coz its late here ;)

Yeah the higher LD from the GBS and the re-roll from the BSB will help in every facet of using Beastmen. That is the keystone of them. You really want to make sure you pass your LD tests.

Hope that helps.

thesoundofmusica
18-02-2012, 12:59
Ok I got a couple more questions :)

1) Does MSU work well with beastmen? Does it work at 1000pts?

2) Assuming my enemy has 20 marauders, 12 warriors, 5 knights, 10 hounds, 1 fighty hero and 1 sorc... Would MSU work and how would that go? If not, how would me using Isters recommended list above + minotaurs play out? Just roughly....

My friend told me he will be playing as plain units and lords as possible to fit everything in there, if he doesnt what nasty combos should I expect?

I dont fear his warriors or maras too much (hw+shield) but what to do about ze knights? With 0 games played, what I can come up with is a bait and flee and hope to flank them and get his knights down abit before they reform. Tips? :)