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View Full Version : BSB's need some clarification...



ravenwatch
26-01-2012, 21:24
So I was playing a friendly game with my buddy a few days ago and we ran into a bit of an hitch regarding how BSB's work...

His HE BSB was in front of the spear man unit i was fighting so i challenged him with my WK for some easy points. He naturally refused and decided to send his BSB to the back to prevent me from scoring a lucky killing blow with my GG. "No big deal" I was thinking "at least he won't get the re-roll or that stupid +1 and +D6 to combat resolution. It came to be quite a shock when he told me he actually gets all the benefits of the banner he just can't used the BSB's leadership. :wtf:

I of course called bunk on that but when we looked it up the leadership thing is all it said in the rule book. However it didn't really mention how that affected BSB's abilities and banner benefits for being in the back rank.

So whats the deal? Do you actually still get the benefits of the BSB even though its in the back rank?

AM1640
26-01-2012, 22:07
Unless there is something in an FAQ that I don't have it looks like the rules state that the charater that refuses the chalenge and is moved to the rear of the unit can't supply his leadership to the unit. I tdoesn't state that other rules/bonuses that the character supplies are suspended. Hint Hint GW perhaps in the next FAQ, errata, or edition of the game If a Character refuses a challenge then no unit may use that character's leadership, nor can any unit use any bonuses that character provides such as the Leadership re-rolls from having a BSB or +1 to hit from a character's item. Just an idea.

LiddellHart
26-01-2012, 22:12
But although the Standard Bearer is a coward not even worth spitting on, the Standard itself represents valour and glory that soldiers only dreamt of as kids.
No need to errata anything in my book.

Also, in 8th is is not uncommon for BSB's to operate from the 2nd rank when the front rank is otherwise occupied (full command, general, wizard etc. or Monstrous Inf e.g.).
Would be too much to deny that army of it's rerolls.

AM1640
26-01-2012, 22:29
Hi Liddellhart, I would only remove the bonus temporarily if the BSB refused a challenge. I just can't justify seeing the leader of the unit, not to mention the 2nd in command of the entire army who holds aloft the glory and valor of your nation backing away from a fight too hide in the corner behind his comrades that are now his personal meatshields as still retaining the ability to lead and rally his unit let alone other nearby units. If you want the bonuses you have to earn them.
If you want to work it so that they are hiding in the 2nd rank of a unit then they would keep giving out the bonuses.

LiddellHart
26-01-2012, 22:45
"Personal meatshields" LOL

But you really should seperate the personality of the bearer from the status of the banner.

IRL, I commanded our Standard Group (Royal Dutch Hussars) on several occassions, and at ceremonies troops always saluted "with honour".
They never cared a bit for that smart-ass young lieutenant, but stared straight at our Standard while doing so.

Straying a little here, but troops care about their (inspiring) boss, and about their (Battle) Standard, and not about the mortals carrying it.:D

AMWOOD co
27-01-2012, 02:26
Besides, for those calling for change, the Battle Standard bonus still applying when a challenge is refused IS a change. In 7th edition (and every edition at least since 4th), if a character refused a challenge, then he gave no bonuses, including the general and Battle Standard.

piperrepip
27-01-2012, 02:31
ok first off how challenges work is this, you delcare a challange at that unit, your opponent either accepts the challenge with one of his eligable figures (champion hero ect) or if he declines u may choose which hero goes to the back of the unit and does not take place in the fighting, u can not pick a champion to go to the back however and the champion does not have to accept a challenge unless a rule specifically states otherwise, furthermore when a character goes to the back of the unit all its effects r imediatly lost

Artiee
27-01-2012, 03:25
If he had another character in the unit, you could have sent that character back instead of the BSB. The player who issues the challenge gets to chose who is sent to the back. The champion is can not be sent back and he does not have to accept the challenge.

Now does the BSB lose all the effects? No. The only thing that can not be used is the BSB's leadership. (pg 102) The BSB still grants rerolls, banner effects and the BSB CR.

ravenwatch
27-01-2012, 04:10
I'm with AM1640 on this one since when did all characters suddenly become skaven?

I guess if that's the rule that's the rule...