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View Full Version : Fel bats vs Bat swarms as tarpit units.



Von Breitholz
30-01-2012, 09:57
Which unit is best as tarpits. My thought is to use the unit as a tarpitunit so that my BKs can reach the targeted unit and kill them off. Any suggestions, pros and cons for both units?

Rake
30-01-2012, 11:31
Well, bat swarms are both SWARMS and UNDEAD special rules, meaning they take 2 wounds per point of CR against them, taking them right out of the picture. Bats are decent... but unless close to general cant march in which case zombies or skellies are your best bet.

Domandi
30-01-2012, 12:00
Well, bat swarms are both SWARMS and UNDEAD special rules, meaning they take 2 wounds per point of CR against them, taking them right out of the picture. Bats are decent... but unless close to general cant march in which case zombies or skellies are your best bet.

Is this true? seems a bit harsh.

SteelTitan
30-01-2012, 12:25
No, I don't think that is the case. Doesn't 'undead' confer the unstable special rule (amongst other things)? So does the 'swarm' rule. 2x unstable doesn't mean that the effects stack.

Why wouldn't you use spirit hosts instead?

Rake
30-01-2012, 13:01
Didnt think the swarm made then unstable, but don;t have the rulebook close to confirm. If swarm gives unstable then SteelTitan is correct.

Mid'ean
30-01-2012, 14:47
Undead swarms do not use the unbreakable-Squish(unstable) rules for swarms. So you still have unstable from being undead. So no losing 2 CR for being an undead swarm.

Petey
30-01-2012, 15:02
Which unit is best as tarpits. My thought is to use the unit as a tarpitunit so that my BKs can reach the targeted unit and kill them off. Any suggestions, pros and cons for both units?

I don't think either is a good tarpit in this edition. You have better options for that in all your other troops, especially the ethereal ones. Bat swarms are a debuff unit that supports a main charger, while fel bats are a fire and forget warmachine hunting unit.

Bat swarms cost a small number of points and have a large number of wounds compared to some armies, but not compared to other undead units. You can have seven skellies per bat swarm, and they are more resistant to death than the bats in terms of toughness and armor. This means they are unreliable tarpits, additionally you ll be tempted to use their mobility on other targets.

Fel Bats can march if they start near the general, so effectively, they 're a normal flier on your first turn, which should give them the ability to set up for a second turn charge, either as a support unit or as a dedicated small unit hunter. This threat may cause your opponent to shoot them up as soon as he is in a position to, and the unit is very fragile to begin with. Each bat is worth 3 skellies in cost and has 2 wounds, again the skellies are better at resisting damage and have more wounds, so you re paying a premium for their mobility, which should be very useful.

My suggestion is that you use core tarpit units that you move ahead and in front of your BK, lure the enemy into moving offline to charge them and have your BK follow up the next turn or attack with the BK and have the tarpits follow in after (depending on terrain and unit set up etc.) Another option would be to use ethereal troops, who are both more and less vulnerable to the enemy to tarpit, and have you BK follow them in after. The problem with this strategy is that your units will most likely take another round of shooting before you pull it off, but I find it is worthwile regardless.

DaemonReign
30-01-2012, 15:07
I don't think either is a good tarpit in this edition. You have better options for that in all your other troops, especially the ethereal ones. Bat swarms are a debuff unit that supports a main charger, while fel bats are a fire and forget warmachine hunting unit.

Listen to this man you should, for the nail on the head he hits. :)

EnternalVoid
30-01-2012, 15:56
Neither unit is good for tarpitting units but both still have uses.

Fellbats can be cheap drops, warmachine hunters *remember to start them with in the 12" general bubble so they can fly 20" first turn*, and possible charge redirectors. Batswarms can do these as well though they are not as good at warmachine hunting. Also Batswarms can have possible uses flanking enemy units as they can inflict the ASL on them while another unit engages them from the front. Just be careful as some units can actually dish out a decent number of attacks to their flank. In my first game against the new VC a pair of batswarms charged the flank of my engaged Mournfangs, 7 attacks wounding on 2+ and a stomp did a fair amount of damage to them.

vardek_4
30-01-2012, 16:53
I think the best use for Fellbats is as redirectors and generally being annoying to your opponent, blocking dangerous charges or staying in the way of his units. For 32pt why not? You can also raise them past their initial unit size with that vampiric power that you can also use with Bat Swarms and wolves. A lvl4 would add 3 Bats or 1 full Swarm or 5 Wolves per cast, all that for only 10pt, that's nice.

Von Breitholz
02-02-2012, 07:17
Tarpit might be the wrong wording, I wanted a unit that could nail an enemyunit at a specific point until my BKs come around and kill them. As they could use the fly march move at least in the first movement face, when they are close to the general. Lets say that the BKs would be there in turn 2 at the best or turn three.

vardek_4
02-02-2012, 08:00
Better use Spirit Hosts for that.

SotF
02-02-2012, 09:48
Swarms aren't that good for tarpiting with the new book, though they can do it.

They seem to work great for flanking and warmachine hunting. Their ability to make your opponent always strike last when there works wonders for letting you do a lot more with your other units.