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dusk1983
31-01-2012, 01:58
Hi guys

I'm not sure if this is the right forum for the question (hope so, if not sorry)

I'm considering chaos dwarves as a second army. I've not read the rules (seeing as their only located in a book twice as expensive as one of GW's already overpriced army books), but I love the models, and I need a break in fantasy from endlessly wishing for an update for my current army.

Some background on me: I'm short hairy and generally very bitter. In short (short, HAH!) I'm a chaos dwarf.

Does anyone have a general idea of how much a 2000 (ish) point army would cost me? And if they're very effective?

herohammer
31-01-2012, 03:17
CDs are an effective army using the current rules from the Warhammer forge book.

The book will run you more than a usual army book.

Model wise CDs are very low model count but those models will be a mix of conversions (many units like the k'daii destroyer and fireborn have no models), old oop models (ebay time!), and holy jesus expensive forgeworld stuff.

The army is a pretty cool one though whatever models you use. I don't think a 2000 point army would run you any more than one of the other more expensive fantasy forces like skaven. I see lots of 10-15 old plastic CDs sell for between $30-40 all he time which is pretty comparable to the prices for other elite infantry like chaos warriors or dwarf thunderers. Mantic has a chaos dwarf range too although not everybody is a fan of those models.

dusk1983
31-01-2012, 03:52
cool. thanks. I'll look into it.

AlphariusOmegon20
31-01-2012, 04:22
Model wise CDs are very low model count but those models will be a mix of conversions (many units like the k'daii destroyer and fireborn have no models yet)

Fixed that for you.

Reticent
31-01-2012, 04:40
One additional thing to be aware of, when Warhammer moves on in editions sometimes side-project armies like this get left behind and you end up with a collection of models that either have severely out-dated rules or are no longer 'legal' as an army altogether.

Not trying to scare you off it mind you, just lots of people have been burned on that sort of thing in the past (old Chaos Dwarfs, Dogs of War, Slanesh Cult, Slayer Army, all minotaur Beastmen, Squats(40k), others I'm sure I'm forgetting).

Mike3791
31-01-2012, 04:50
The cool thing I like about CD vs WOC is that they actually have a decent shooting phase. Is the CD list from Turkemen (sp?) legal in current tourneys?

Artinam
31-01-2012, 07:12
You have to check that with your local tournament organizer. Forgeworld (and thus GW) has presented them as official rules. They even have their own FAQ already. Still looking at the past it wouldn't be uncommon for tournament organizers to ban Forge World lists.

TywinLannister
31-01-2012, 10:38
its worth noting that mantic's abyssal dwarfs are a cheap alternative to your CD core units.

My mate fields the mantic models next to really old goblin models as hobgoblins (the old static goblins from the 4th ed starter) and the army looks great actually!

Wishing
31-01-2012, 23:21
You have to check that with your local tournament organizer. Forgeworld (and thus GW) has presented them as official rules. They even have their own FAQ already. Still looking at the past it wouldn't be uncommon for tournament organizers to ban Forge World lists.

But do GW-organised tournaments at big GW conventions allow them? That GW presents them as official rules doesn't mean too much if GW at the same time doesn't allow them in their tournaments.

GrandmasterWang
01-02-2012, 02:18
I collect Chaos Dwarfs (my fave army) so I recommend them.

That said, I play them as dwarfs most of the time but you can make a good list from the FW book (which is great btw, far more than a normal army book)

Disposable Hero
01-02-2012, 09:10
I use Confrontation models, the good and bad dwarfs and their cannons in my Timurkhan list.

Have yet to play them, but they look sweet, even with my painting skeelz.

Doommasters
01-02-2012, 09:25
Chaos dwarfs are very cool, they are also nice to play against provided they don't go over do the war machines. But that is not different to dwarfs and empire gun lines anyway.

Skaby
01-02-2012, 12:03
Yes, they are allowed in "official" GW Tournaments :-)

Max_Killfactor
01-02-2012, 16:13
Awesome looking army if you go for the FW models. I am a crappy painter and they still look badass... gotta love GW's washes.

They are a great second army. Their list is a little small and limiting if it's your only army, but they are a great change of pace for me (my main army is Dark Elves). Plus, even if you lose the battle.... you win because of how awesome your army looks and how rare they are.

For what it's worth, my local GW allows them in all the events they run and the manager is a fan of them.

Manling
01-02-2012, 17:58
it all comes down to disposable income and whether or not you like having an army that you most likely cant use in tourney's and such. If your playing just friendly games and think its a neat army go for it.

Doommasters
01-02-2012, 18:34
it all comes down to disposable income and whether or not you like having an army that you most likely cant use in tourney's and such. If your playing just friendly games and think its a neat army go for it.

What do you mean you mostly can't use? GW supports the army and I have yet to see a local TO say no to them. As far as I am concerned that makes them pretty much a staple army in my eyes.

popisdead
01-02-2012, 21:16
I've not read the rules (seeing as their only located in a book twice as expensive as one of GW's already overpriced army books),

That is the first 'no' against you. If you are balking at the price of the book, don't bother with the army. Reasoning is, if you really were into them and the fluff you would do them. If you know nothing about them, and are not interested in at least reading the fluff for them I recommend staying away. It sounds like it would just lead to money frustration on your part.

Manling
01-02-2012, 22:57
GW supports the army and I have yet to see a local TO say no to them. As far as I am concerned that makes them pretty much a staple army in my eyes.

dont consider them a Staple until they have a mainstream book done. and even then when GW does fianlly make a decision and backs it with a mini line

Wishing
01-02-2012, 23:11
Yes, they are allowed in "official" GW Tournaments :-)

If the Tamurkhan list really is allowed at all GW Games Day events and Grand Tournaments etc., then I agree that the "tournament legal" brand will definitely apply to them. That's just not normal for a FW list, hence why I think the question is regularly asked.

Doommasters
02-02-2012, 01:28
If the Tamurkhan list really is allowed at all GW Games Day events and Grand Tournaments etc., then I agree that the "tournament legal" brand will definitely apply to them. That's just not normal for a FW list, hence why I think the question is regularly asked.

The main problem has been that many of the 40k books have been brocken. WHFB it seems is one step ahead of the curve and is actually promoting balance in 8th edition, when you compare chaos dwarfs to the 8th edition books they are very much equal from a balance perspective, given GW owns FW I can't see why they would not support them........given they already do where i live.

You can regularly buy FW stuff in my local stores and the store manager plays CD so maybe this is not the norm?

dusk1983
02-02-2012, 01:29
That is the first 'no' against you. If you are balking at the price of the book, don't bother with the army. Reasoning is, if you really were into them and the fluff you would do them. If you know nothing about them, and are not interested in at least reading the fluff for them I recommend staying away. It sounds like it would just lead to money frustration on your part.

The fluff was part of my initial question. I am loathe to buy such an expensive book just to figure out if i want the army or not. I want the models. I love the forgeworld models. What Ive read about the chaos dwarf history on the interwebs i find fascinating (especially about them creating the black orcs and as such being indirectly responsible for SO MUCH evil), but there isnt much in the way of fluff there. Even the dwarf book gives them no more than a token mention. I like to play armies for thematic feel of the army as well as rules (hence why my primary army is WE) but the price of the tamurkhan book is too high if the fluff is gargbage GW hack writing eg. "They're dwarves. Except Eeeeeeeeeevil!"

I want to find out more about Hashut, and the kind of lores they get (if they get non-brb ones)

I also would like to know about how much for a forgeworld army. (impossible to guess at without ballpark points costs- again dont want to buy the book just to find out a 2k army is going to cost me over $1000 AU. I love the hobby, but Im not exactly priveleged in the finances department.) Im happy to pay a bit more than I usually would in order to have an army that has such nice models as long as Im not paying TOO much more.

Doommasters
02-02-2012, 02:42
The fluff was part of my initial question. I am loathe to buy such an expensive book just to figure out if i want the army or not. I want the models. I love the forgeworld models. What Ive read about the chaos dwarf history on the interwebs i find fascinating (especially about them creating the black orcs and as such being indirectly responsible for SO MUCH evil), but there isnt much in the way of fluff there. Even the dwarf book gives them no more than a token mention. I like to play armies for thematic feel of the army as well as rules (hence why my primary army is WE) but the price of the tamurkhan book is too high if the fluff is gargbage GW hack writing eg. "They're dwarves. Except Eeeeeeeeeevil!"

I want to find out more about Hashut, and the kind of lores they get (if they get non-brb ones)

I also would like to know about how much for a forgeworld army. (impossible to guess at without ballpark points costs- again dont want to buy the book just to find out a 2k army is going to cost me over $1000 AU. I love the hobby, but Im not exactly priveleged in the finances department.) Im happy to pay a bit more than I usually would in order to have an army that has such nice models as long as Im not paying TOO much more.

Given the AU dollar is pretty dam High $1000 would get you a tonne of models! The FW models are pretty expensive but without giving you points costs the models are all fairly expensive game wise, therefore your money will go some distance. However these are very nice models and you pay for what you get at FW.

The fluff is pretty good in the book and what it lacks I think the other books should pick up. Chaos Dwarfs are a great army if you want something rare and unique (small army with less options than other books at this stage), the fluff is harder to come by but some people like it that way.

IMO buy the Tamurakhan book it is worth the price tag and makes playing any chaos army so much more fun. Honestly the Tamurakhan book is one of the best things I have purchased in a long time, seriosuly worth getting your hands on one if you are into chaos!

dusk1983
02-02-2012, 02:48
well i just found something that has led me to believe is hould be able to get away with a minimum of 40 guys (20 infernal guard, 20 fireglaive) to fill out my 500 point core min which isnt going to be that expensive. only about $200 au to get my core sorted so thats extremely reasonable. All of a sudden, I'm excited!

tmarichards
02-02-2012, 02:59
They're being allowed in most UK events, with the caveat that the Destroyer can always be wounded on a 6 because the FAQ is stupid...

dwarfhold13
02-02-2012, 03:26
Not trying to scare you off it mind you, just lots of people have been burned on that sort of thing in the past (old Chaos Dwarfs, Dogs of War, Slanesh Cult, Slayer Army, all minotaur Beastmen, Squats(40k), others I'm sure I'm forgetting).

yeah.. don't get me started on this :( i have 100 slayers and nothing to do with them... hope they include a cool option in the new book, but i don't see them being that cool... they never are.
with that said though, this is a pretty major toolup by a sister company. I don't see the CD going anywhere for some time.

Maximus Lucifer
02-02-2012, 09:03
You have to check that with your local tournament organizer. Forgeworld (and thus GW) has presented them as official rules. They even have their own FAQ already. Still looking at the past it wouldn't be uncommon for tournament organizers to ban Forge World lists.

sorry for the off topic, but after reading your post, i tried finding the FAQ...where did you see it?

angelofrage
02-02-2012, 09:19
The fluff was part of my initial question. I am loathe to buy such an expensive book just to figure out if i want the army or not. I want the models. I love the forgeworld models. What Ive read about the chaos dwarf history on the interwebs i find fascinating (especially about them creating the black orcs and as such being indirectly responsible for SO MUCH evil), but there isnt much in the way of fluff there. Even the dwarf book gives them no more than a token mention. I like to play armies for thematic feel of the army as well as rules (hence why my primary army is WE) but the price of the tamurkhan book is too high if the fluff is gargbage GW hack writing eg. "They're dwarves. Except Eeeeeeeeeevil!"

I want to find out more about Hashut, and the kind of lores they get (if they get non-brb ones)

I also would like to know about how much for a forgeworld army. (impossible to guess at without ballpark points costs- again dont want to buy the book just to find out a 2k army is going to cost me over $1000 AU. I love the hobby, but Im not exactly priveleged in the finances department.) Im happy to pay a bit more than I usually would in order to have an army that has such nice models as long as Im not paying TOO much more.

While the book does contain some nice fluff on the chaos dwarfs, the main story is more from a Warriors of Chaos point of view. There are some nice tidbits about the Chaos Dwarfs, Hashut, warmachines, new units, etc The list only represents a Black Fortress army and so isn't as fleshed out as if it were a real army book. However I'd say it's worth it, the story is cool, the bestiary has plenty of nice pictures and information and the book itself is a really nice (if a little heavy to carry round as your army book :P)

As for the cost, it's FW so it's going to be expensive! But having said that, most things are very expensive points wise and so you'll never have a huge army list to pay for. A couple of blocks of Infernal guard, few warmachines, lord, hero and something else (bull centaurs, destroyer, etc) should easily be 2000 points.

Most importantly though is the look of the FW army. If you like that and think you'll enjoy painting them, then I'd say it would be worth it.

SunTzu
02-02-2012, 09:19
I also would like to know about how much for a forgeworld army. (impossible to guess at without ballpark points costs- again dont want to buy the book just to find out a 2k army is going to cost me over $1000 AU)

As a guide, my 2000 point army (Sorcerer-Prophet on Taurus, Daemonsmith, BSB, 20 CDs with Fireglaives, 23 CDs with HW/Sh, Magma Cannon, and Skullcrusher) cost me 334 GBP IIRC. Add the book itself and you're getting near 400 GBP. I have no idea what that is in AUD I'm afraid but you can probably work that out from the website. I've also not yet had the opportunity to field it in battle (in fact most of it hasn't been glued together yet...) and I intend to expand past 2000 points at some point so it will certainly end up costing me more at some point. You could certainly spend more if you chose different units, but I don't think you could get away with spending much less.

(At least, not while sticking with the beautiful Forge World models. A lot of people use Mantic figures for example, which would undoubtedly be vastly cheaper, but if you were so price-sensitive as to be considering Mantic you probably wouldn't even be asking about Forge World).

SunTzu
02-02-2012, 09:20
sorry for the off topic, but after reading your post, i tried finding the FAQ...where did you see it?

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/News/Downloads.html

Lord-Caerolion
02-02-2012, 10:31
Just remember that this isn't an actual Chaos Dwarf army. As Angelofrage states, the army list is the Black Tower army list, which is basically a Chaos Dwarf army with more artillery and slave-warriors (the Infernal Guard), and no actual Chaos Dwarf infantry (by which I mean non-slave Chaos Dwarves).

EDMM
02-02-2012, 16:50
Ethereal units can't be wounded by non-magical attacks.

The Destroyer can't be wounded by non-magical attacks that are Strength 1, 2, 3, or 4.

How is it a stupid ruling?


Just remember that this isn't an actual Chaos Dwarf army. As Angelofrage states, the army list is the Black Tower army list, which is basically a Chaos Dwarf army with more artillery and slave-warriors (the Infernal Guard), and no actual Chaos Dwarf infantry (by which I mean non-slave Chaos Dwarves).

The Infernal Guard aren't slaves. They're a warrior cult of dishonoured individuals. They're more like Chaos Dwarf Slayers. Definitely not slaves though.

Doommasters
02-02-2012, 18:30
Just remember that this isn't an actual Chaos Dwarf army. As Angelofrage states, the army list is the Black Tower army list, which is basically a Chaos Dwarf army with more artillery and slave-warriors (the Infernal Guard), and no actual Chaos Dwarf infantry (by which I mean non-slave Chaos Dwarves).

I hope the next two books build on the Chaos Dwarfs and flesh out their army a little more.

redben
02-02-2012, 18:56
I think it's more likely that they'll introduce releases for different races rather than going back over Chaos Dwarves and Empire.

Skullking
02-02-2012, 19:39
Some background on me: I'm short hairy and generally very bitter. In short (short, HAH!) I'm a chaos dwarf.


That sounds like any dwarf, Chaos or otherwise to me. ;)

I have the models and the Book, all are absolutely gorgeous. Some people were not too keen on the Bale Taurus, but I think it's amazing. I'm hoping to use minotaurs for the K'daii Fireborn, and a stonehorn body with a Ghorgon head for the Destroyer. As several have stated, this is not a 'regular' chaos dwarf list. It has a lot of artillery in it, and is very much centered around the Deamonsmiths (wizard/engineers), who, to be fair, are AWESOME!! But you won't find all the things that were in the old list/book. It's a fun little army to collect though. I didn't realize they were tournament legal. My LGS said they weren't going to allow them, even though I tried to explain how cool it would be to see my little train drive around the table, while my flying cow smashed into peoples flanks.

Oh well...:(

Doommasters
02-02-2012, 19:53
There is an Eldar model with spear on FW that could make a good Destroyer, the body is almost lava like. My problem is I dislike the infrenal guard models so I am looking at alternative options.

SunTzu
02-02-2012, 20:41
I'm hoping to use minotaurs for the K'daii Fireborn

Easy enough for a short term fix, but FYI within the next few months there will be Fireborn models from Forge World. (No Destroyer though).


I hope the next two books build on the Chaos Dwarfs and flesh out their army a little more.

Sadly not... AFAIK after the aforementioned K'daai, plus Bull Centaurs (though even that is TBC), there will be no more Chaos Dwarf stuff coming out of Forge World... certain people in high places at GW consider them only one step up from Squats, and don't want any more focus on them. Sad but true.