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Disturbed Frog
31-01-2012, 04:24
Talking stat wise what is the worst unit in 40k?
For those who want to be more specific I'de like to here your thoughts on the worst unit for various faction and types ie. Fast attack / elites and so on, also some of the most over priced units

Mannimarco
31-01-2012, 04:27
The Chaos spawn is pretty useless, its only redeeming quality is it has quite a few nice bits for converting daemon princes.

GrimZAG
31-01-2012, 04:50
The Chaos spawn is pretty useless, its only redeeming quality is it has quite a few nice bits for converting daemon princes.

I would agree with this.

and anything that has randomly rolled effects, I hate those.

easternheretic
31-01-2012, 05:19
The Tyranid Pyrovore is pretty useless as well.

Squishy to incoming fire, but requires it to get into template range to start to be effective. Once in range it doesn't do much and then it dies.

At best, a distraction. The model doesn't have the flexibility of the plastic spawn either, and it finecast now.

wyvirn
31-01-2012, 05:21
It gets fun in huge point games, like 5000+. A **** ton of t5 3w models charging your opponent is enough to make anyone cackle maniacly.
I think the worst unit would be Tyranid Skyslasher brood, who will literally eat themselves if no near a synapse creature, which is pretty often considering they're jump infantry.

igwarlord
31-01-2012, 05:53
For your approval I submit before the court the units of Ogryn, stormtrooper, and Sister of Battle.

The Death of Reason
31-01-2012, 06:33
The Daemonhosts.

You have absolutely no idea, what these guys can do - if anything.

totgeboren
31-01-2012, 07:46
I have used Ogryn and Stormtroopers quite successfully many times, they are not even close to being the most useless unit in the game.
A good comparison is Possessed, who suck compared to Chaos Terminators, Berzerkers or even Chosen, but in themselves can do some damage and be of use on the battlefield.

One unit that does nothing however is the Chaos Spawn. It's a really bad meatshield, it is slow, it can't shoot and does no damage in close combat. And is cost a huge number of points!

I mean, a Pyrovore could realisticly kill a few enemies before being taken out, especially if being deployed by pod. They mostly suck because of being in competition with other units which are very useful, like Hive Guards, Venomthropes and Zoanthropes.

Bloodknight
31-01-2012, 07:46
Chaos Spawn, which are completely useless (no guns, no armor, random movement and they implode in CC thanks to Slow and Purposeful and Fearless), and IG recruits which are vastly overpriced in comparison to Guardsmen with worse options. Ogryns at least fill a niche, and a chimera full of them can pour out some serious firepower and open a can of whoopass on stuff like carnifexes.

KingDeath
31-01-2012, 09:57
The Spacepope is currently engaged in an epic battle with the Chaosspawn for the supreme honour of being the most useles piece of metal/plastic on the battlefield.

ihavetoomuchminis
31-01-2012, 10:31
The Spacepope is currently engaged in an epic battle with the Chaosspawn for the supreme honour of being the most useles piece of metal/plastic on the battlefield.

There are no options left for other units when both contendants enter into the arena.

Latro_
31-01-2012, 10:34
Long fangs and grey hunters in razor back

They are far too cheap, far too effective, they really are the worst thing in 40k :D

Bunnahabhain
31-01-2012, 10:41
I'd argue Mogul Kamir and Nork Deddog are strong contenders for worst model, rules wise, but they aren't their own units.

Kamir adds 40% to the units cost, they gain no real benefits, and a huge liablity, as the Rage USR makes them hard to control

Nork is simply screwed badly by the majority toughness rules, so he becomes a T3 Ogryn. Great buy for over 100pts, when you can get a bodyguard for 15pts...

NixonAsADaemonPrince
31-01-2012, 10:49
Skyslasher swarms get my vote. They literally kill themselves if you get out of Synapse range, which if you're using their superior movement capabilities they will.

Noobie2k7
31-01-2012, 11:11
I like skyslasher broods. Use em to shield your parasite of mortrex.

Worst unit in 40K would probly go to either chaos spawn or ratling snipers.

Fawful
31-01-2012, 11:29
Ratling snipers aren't that bad, just not the most effective unit in the army.

Chaos spawn get my vote as well. Flash gitz are another good contender. If you want them to do anything they become incredibly expensive and quite quickly at that. Plus, they are heavy support. Zap cannons aren't great either.

Chaos daemons have the utterly useless beast of nurgle (elite) and screamers (FA) with their one melta bomb.

Tau have the space pope (HQ).

Eldar have guardians (troops), which um yeah.. And swooping hawks (FA), the most over costed unit in pretty much all of 40k.

These are the ones that I remember without checking the codexes, there are plenty more of similar units out there which are either outclassed by something in the same slot, are to expensive or just won't ever do anything worthwhile (or all three in the case of chaos spawn).

Shamana
31-01-2012, 11:30
Worst unit in 40K would probly go to either chaos spawn or ratling snipers.

Ratlings... eh, at least they don't cost much for snipers (so just bad, not ultrabad); I'd say eldar hawks are worse. Spawn still take the cake though.

Bunnahabhain
31-01-2012, 11:31
Ratlings? Really.
Dirt cheap BS4 snipers, with stealth, and not taking up a useful FOC slot. They work just fine, and are by far the best snipers in the Guard codex.
Of course, if you take one unit on foot in an otherwise mechanised list, they will stick out rather and die, but if you have 100 or 200 other infantry about, they're fine.


If you mean model wise, I agree they're fairly aweful, but not in storm raven/dreadknight levels of badness...

EDIT:
The deathstrike missile is a good contender for worst unit as well.

Same cost and FOC slot as a Manticore, or Demolisher.
Has a good chance of never actually firing, or missing badly if it does.
Doesn't belong on the 40k table- it's a lost apocalypse unit.

ihavetoomuchminis
31-01-2012, 11:55
Ratling snipers aren't that bad, just not the most effective unit in the army.

Chaos spawn get my vote as well. Flash gitz are another good contender. If you want them to do anything they become incredibly expensive and quite quickly at that. Plus, they are heavy support. Zap cannons aren't great either.

Chaos daemons have the utterly useless beast of nurgle (elite) and screamers (FA) with their one melta bomb.

Tau have the space pope (HQ).

Eldar have guardians (troops), which um yeah.. And swooping hawks (FA), the most over costed unit in pretty much all of 40k.

These are the ones that I remember without checking the codexes, there are plenty more of similar units out there which are either outclassed by something in the same slot, are to expensive or just won't ever do anything worthwhile (or all three in the case of chaos spawn).

How can i forgot Flash Gitz!! Useless overpriced crap!!

I don't think Screamers are that bad, but certainly, being flyers with no bonuses to hit against Fast moving or flying transports is crap.

RandomThoughts
31-01-2012, 11:55
I believe the OP asked for a slot-by-slot comparison.

This very question was recently discussed on this very board for troops, and the finalist were pretty much the Tau Firewarriors, the Eldar Guardians and (in first place) the Tyranid Ripper swarm.

Not sue about the other slots, but I believe Space Pope in HQ, Chaos Spawn and Pyrovores in Elite, Swooping Hawks in Fast Assault and Eldar Support Weapons in Heavy Support are all good contenders. Most of that is hearsay, though, as I can only talk with some authority about Eldar.

Axel
31-01-2012, 12:58
Nobody mentioned Repentias yet?

They roughly doubled their efficiency in the new codex, but before they were leading by such a margin that they can still be considered one of the worst.

Noobie2k7
31-01-2012, 13:06
Damn i forgot about deathstrike Missile. How could i forget about that.

I think if i was to give a contender for each slot i;d say

HQ: Space pope
Elites: Chaos Spawn
Troops: Guardians
FA: Screamers of tzeentch
HS: Deathstrike missile.

NixonAsADaemonPrince
31-01-2012, 13:39
HQ: Space pope. He actually makes your army worse.
Elites: Pyrovore. He's a fragile guy who can't join a unit and has to get close to the enemy to do anything, all for plenty of points.
Troops: Ripper Swarms. Can't score and just die.
Fast Attack: Chaos Spawn or Skyslasher Swarms. They both just die without achieving anything.
Heavy Support: Deathstrike. It sits around not doing much for a lot of points.

Draconis
31-01-2012, 13:51
I have used Ogryn and Stormtroopers quite successfully many times, they are not even close to being the most useless unit in the game.
A good comparison is Possessed, who suck compared to Chaos Terminators, Berzerkers or even Chosen, but in themselves can do some damage and be of use on the battlefield.

One unit that does nothing however is the Chaos Spawn. It's a really bad meatshield, it is slow, it can't shoot and does no damage in close combat. And is cost a huge number of points!

I mean, a Pyrovore could realisticly kill a few enemies before being taken out, especially if being deployed by pod. They mostly suck because of being in competition with other units which are very useful, like Hive Guards, Venomthropes and Zoanthropes.

ah but however, the spawn can be free given you tag someone with the gift of chaos. Pyrovores however only have one use in their existence. substitute models for biovores. not even that if you buy the fine cast models now... like previously said, they have to get in template range to be effective, have low T and save, and they tend to blow up while in the midst of your own troops.

Konovalev
31-01-2012, 14:03
Elites: Culexus assassin from *gasp* the GK codex. This guy needs a ton of psykers around him to be effective, and even the GK themselvers don't run psykers in those numbers.

NixonAsADaemonPrince
31-01-2012, 14:04
Elites: Culexus assassin from *gasp* the GK codex. This guy needs a ton of psykers around him to be effective, and even the GK themselvers don't run psykers in those numbers.

That's a good one, he really is rubbish. He'd be ok if his gun had a decent range (And maybe had a focussed beam for dealing with vehicles) but sadly not.

ColShaw
31-01-2012, 14:12
Ok, here goes:

HQ: Nork Deddog. Triples the cost of a CCS and is almost entirely useless.
Elites: Yeah, Pyrovore. Or Culexus Assassin. So hardcore in the fluff, so useless on the tabletop.
Troops: IG Conscripts. When they were 2 points less than a Guardsman, and ordinary Infantry Squads couldn't blob, AND they could take some weapon upgrades, they were decent. Now? They got worse, their counterparts got cheaper. There is no earthly reason to use these guys.
Fast Attack: Hmm. Not really sure what to put here. I'll abstain.
Heavy Support: A good case has been made for the Deathstrike Missile. The current Carnifex is pretty bad, too. The Space Marine Whirlwind doesn't get any love at all, and I can see why.

totgeboren
31-01-2012, 15:32
I often use Flash Gitz. They cost too much for what they do, that is certain, but every time I have used them they have performed quite impressively. As long as you are 'lucky' enough to roll low on the Ap roll, they can wreak havoc. Mine have gunned down for example Tyranid Monsters many times. The trick is to have them ride around in a Battlewagon, which you need to buy separately of course.

Still, they not even close to Chaos Spawn or Space Pope bad, point for point.

Scammel
31-01-2012, 15:40
Chaos Spawn. They run towards the nearest thing that can kill them (anything tougher than Grots) and die. Several of the other options mentioned can at least do something, even if it is very badly - I wouldn't want to be a Guardsman stood within range of a Pyrovore, however unlikely that may be. From the moment they are placed on the tabletop, a Chaos player has aboslutely no control over Spawn and they are laughably easy to kill.

Korraz
31-01-2012, 15:45
Aun'va.
/thread
No, really, no further discussion needed. Aun'va wins this every time.

TrangleC
31-01-2012, 15:52
In theory my vote would go to the Chaos Spawn too, but I have seen battle report videos of a player in Austria who wins a lot of games (on tournaments) with a very fluffy Word Bearer army that has 9 Chaos Spawns in it, so I'm not so sure. Apparently they can be useful if wielded right.

Pretty useless in my eyes are Mandrakes, Flayed Ones, Possessed CSM and the Chaos Dreadnaught, at least until the last Errata.

HereticHammer01
31-01-2012, 15:52
Gotta go with the popular one, chaos spawn. Its just too terrible to comprehend using...

Scammel
31-01-2012, 15:54
No, really, no further discussion needed. Aun'va wins this every time.

If I recall Aun'va, however nigh-useless he may be, doesn't actually contribute to his own demise - you have the luxury of moving him where you want to.

Noobie2k7
31-01-2012, 15:57
To me it's either Chaos Spawn or the Deathstrike Missisle.

I mean both are really useless but the deathstrike missile is horrible. I mean it can only fire once, Half the time it won't fire at all, doesn't really do all that much damage when it hits and is more likely to miss anyway. It cannot move and after it;s let of it;s one and a million rocket all it has is weak chassis and a heavy bolter in the hull. Oh, and it's not even like it won't just get blown up before it even gets to shoot in the first place. I'd rather take orbital bombardment over a deathtrike, even that;s more reliable and better value for points.

loveless
31-01-2012, 15:58
I'd like to submit Kheradrukah, the Decapitator, for consideration as well. An impressive-enough stack of points that manages to show up on the battlefield, potentially take a ****-poor pot-shot at a target, and then die before ever getting in the close combat he so desires.

Not as bad as Aun'va, but he's still a fun way to give your opponent an edge :shifty:

Jokaero!
31-01-2012, 16:04
I'm going to weigh in with my thoughts for the choices from the Dark Eldar codex...

SPECIAL CHARACTERS - Kheradruakh, The Decapitator. (ninja'd by loveless.) At first glance he doesn't look bad until you start reading... He's got a decent statline, S5, power weapon that instant deaths on a 6 and all the other perks that Mandrakes get, plus a free pain token. Then you realise he's not an independent character, can't share the pain and can't assault on the turn he appears. Derp.

HQ - Haemonculus Ancient. For 30 more points than a standard Haemonculus you get a smattering of stat bonuses, stat bonuses for a throw away character who is only in the army to play with pain token shenanigans and get a Liquifier shot off before he dies.

ELITES - There's some great choices in the Elites section. And then there are Mandrakes. They have a useful shooting attack, but only get it once they kill something. Sure, they get S4 and a 5++ but why not go with a 5 point cheaper, scoring Wych who simply does every better? I'm sure that one day, someone, somewhere will find a use for the Mandrakes. Just not yet.

TROOPS - This is a tough choice and one that can't be simply made. I get more kicks out of Wyches. They have access to the same dedicated transports, a 4++ in combat, higher initiative, combat drugs that can be buffed by the Duke and access to Haywire Grenades. Warriors are slightly cheaper and with access to special weapons, and a better armour save. I'm with the Wyches but I'm sure there is not right or wrong on this particular debate.

FAST ATTACK - Hellions. This is a discussion based on the choice of not taking a squad led by Baron Sathonyx. They aren't led by a decent combat character with free Phantasm Grenade Launcher, they don't have stealth, the ability to reroll dangerous terrain tests or reroll hit and run attempts. Most importantly they are no longer Troops. I'm not a massive fan of the FA choices and don't regularly use them but I see no sense in FA Hellions.

HEAVY SUPPORT - Cronos Parasite Engine. I really like the idea of the Cronos and love the model. The ability to move Pain Tokens around is good but by the first turn most DE players have given their units sufficient tokens. A Talos can do everything better in combat too. It's not awful, far from it, but in my view, the worst choice.

Kulgur
31-01-2012, 16:06
If I recall Aun'va, however nigh-useless he may be, doesn't actually contribute to his own demise - you have the luxury of moving him where you want to.

But he can cause your entire army to run off the board when he gets insta-gibbed

Korraz
31-01-2012, 16:33
If I recall Aun'va, however nigh-useless he may be, doesn't actually contribute to his own demise - you have the luxury of moving him where you want to.

Yes, you have the luxury to pick where he will die.
Because die he will.
And then your army will run off the board.

FarseerBeilTan
31-01-2012, 16:37
Tau Ethereal, yeahhh an unarmoued HQ that if dies army must take a leadership check? Oh yeha T3...

Ozendorph
31-01-2012, 17:00
Spore Mine Clusters. They appear, bump into one another, and then suddenly leave play. Pure awesome.

Drakcore Bloodtear
31-01-2012, 17:45
Aun'va.
/thread
No, really, no further discussion needed. Aun'va wins this every time.

+1
At least Spawns can kill something (no matter how small). Aun'va fails in every phase on the game, plus he makes the army worst when he dies and when he's alive (who wants they're Tau maning up in a fight??).

Even Ethereals can give you BS4 FW, but no Aun'va has no redeeming factors at all.

Noobie2k7
31-01-2012, 18:16
Spore Mine Clusters. They appear, bump into one another, and then suddenly leave play. Pure awesome. I think we might have something here.

Barbarossa
31-01-2012, 18:22
Damn i forgot about deathstrike Missile. How could i forget about that.

I think if i was to give a contender for each slot i;d say

HQ: Space pope
Elites: Chaos Spawn
Troops: Guardians
FA: Screamers of tzeentch
HS: Deathstrike missile.

Okay, let's turn that into a codex!

Scaryscarymushroom
31-01-2012, 18:31
For your approval I submit before the court the units of Ogryn, stormtrooper, and Sister of Battle.

I must say that, while overpriced, there are a lot of units that are worse off than the sister of battle.

Can't speak for stormtroopers nowadays, but the old rules for Inquisitorial storm troopers were pretty bad.
10 point model with an imperial guard statline, a 4+ save and a str3, ap5 rapid fire weapon. They did allow you to pre-measure before you declared who you were firing at, which was cool, but the only thing it did was predict whether you were about to have an argument about who was barely in range. And they had frag grenades, so in case you ever wanted to feed them to a ravenous horde of hormagaunts in cover, you could still strike last. :p

The badness is exaggerated slightly when you compared them to sisters of battle (who had a codex entry literally on the same page, directly above them). At a cost of +1 point, you got
3+ save
+1 Ballistic skill
shield of faith
a bolter rather than a hellgun.
And you could make them faithful.

Noobie2k7
31-01-2012, 18:34
Imma go through the tyranid codex and pick out some really bad things as we have lots to choose from.

HQ: actually nids are ok for HQ slots but the parasite of mortrex is probly the worst as he's trying to make unviable troops useful and fails

Elites: Pyrovore (many reasons already given), Lictors (too expensive for what they do. Pop out of some terrain cannot assault and just get pummeled 65pts for T4 and no synapse. . .no thanks)

Troops: Tyranid warriors (miles too expensive, no options compared to older codices and only T4). Ripper swarms (just plain bad, eats themselves if out of synapse)

Fast Attack: Tyranid Shrikes (see tyranid warriors) Sky-slasher brood (ripper swarms but even less likely to be in synapse range so more likely to eat themselves) Spore mine clusters (just. . . .yeah)

Heavy support: Old one eye (almost as much as 2 canifex's for umm. . .err. nothing?) Mawloc (err Trygons but worse, useless for everything except popping out of the ground and then going away again). Tyrannofex (pretty much everything else that;s good does what these do but better and for a fraction of the cost, seriously?)

UberBeast
31-01-2012, 19:10
Mandrakes for fail. It's amazing that something with so many special rules is so terrible, but there you have it.

Slyck
31-01-2012, 19:24
I have often run a list with 6 or 9 spawn in it so here's my meager defense of them.

Spawn have effectively done three things for my in the past;

-They are big enough that they've effectively screened my rhino's and dreads during the first round of fire.

-They typically last through two rounds of assault because of their high toughness and wounds that they pin down forward units and allow you to maneuver your more dangerous units in to mop up.

-But most effectively, they provide enough attacks and have a high enough strength that they've nullified or destroyed a number vehicles with AV 10 or 11 back armor.

AngryAngel
31-01-2012, 19:37
Well I think 3 I'll bring up. The first, conscripts just about totally useless way overcosted and relatively pointless. Though that said Ive taken to using them as a cheapish meatshield, but that is more for army feel then them not being garbage.

Deathstrike, oh this weapon has made me angry in just about every instance I've taken it in a standard game. It did though make me happy in the apoc game I used it in with it firing a void missle. It's truely inaccurate, and may not fire all game and even once it does has a random area of effect. I think it looks cool.

Then ya have chaos spawn, I vote them the most worthless. Their unit box is expensive, their pt cost is expensive and they are truely worthless. I've beaten them down before in CC with fire warriors, they got the charge off and they lost. Their gimpy movement, coupled with random attacks and no armor save and fearless makes them truely a unit to be ignored the world over. At least the deathstrike might get a good shot off and kill something cool. The conscripts can die for a better unit behind it, the chaos spawn can't even be reliable in moving, have no guns, armor save, promised charge range, number of attacks, the list goes on.

The areas these units take up are, conscripts troops, chaos spawn fast, deathstrike heavy. However only one of them uses up their slot they are taken as. That being the deathstrike.

meltedwing
31-01-2012, 19:45
I'm astonished no one has mentioned Kroot.

Korraz
31-01-2012, 19:52
Are you being for real?
No, really, are you for real? Kroot?

KronusDaSneaky
31-01-2012, 20:13
Aun'Va if we allow characters since hes not just a waste of points like the usual suspects but makes the army worse by his presence. Did I also mention he costs a fortune too?

Anyone who suggests merely bad units like storm troopers clearly has yet to experiences the true depths of mediocrity available if you look hard enough

KronusDaSneaky
31-01-2012, 20:22
Yes, you have the luxury to pick where he will die.
Because die he will.
And then your army will run off the board.

This made me rolfmao because its so accurate. Its funnier still that he makes the tau too stubborn, just what a shooting army that wants to avoid being locked in combat during its turn wants. Nice job Korraz.

Vipoid
31-01-2012, 20:27
My picks:

HQ Probably Aun'Va. Seems like the only reason to include him is if you feel that you're winning too much and want to basically spend 200pts on something to help your opponent win.
Elite I'd go with Pyrovore. Partially because it's competing with some of the most useful units in the nid codex, and partially because it's more likely to take out your own stuff than your enemy's.
Troops: Rippers
Fast attack: Either sky-slash broods (as in 'a hive ship is taking a shash into the sky...'), or spore mines.
Heavy Support: Old One Eye.

If I was doing just the tyranid codex:

HQ I'd say the Parasite of Mortrex. It costs as much as a Tervigon (but dies to a single hit from a PF), and doesn't really do anything, other than making more of the most useless troops unit in the game.
Elite Pyrovore for the aforementioned reasons.
Troops: Probably Rippers. However, most of our troops are pretty bad. Warriors are pathetically easy to kill with S8 weapons, gaunts are overpriced, homogants are overpriced because of their upgrades. Still, none come close to being as bad as rippers.
Fast attack: To be honest, with the exception of gargoyles, all our FA units are pretty appalling. Shrikes and Ravners are both bad for the same reason as Warriors. The Harpy is a 160pt MC that has a 4+ armour save (no invulnerable, naturally) and can be insta-killed by high-strength weapons. Still, I think sky-slash swarms or spore mines still take home the award.
Heavy Support: Old One Eye. No contest.


I'd like to submit Kheradrukah, the Decapitator, for consideration as well. An impressive-enough stack of points that manages to show up on the battlefield, potentially take a ****-poor pot-shot at a target, and then die before ever getting in the close combat he so desires.

Not as bad as Aun'va, but he's still a fun way to give your opponent an edge :shifty:

I have to say, if I played DE, I'd use Kheradrukah. I don't think he's a good unit, but I think he'd at least be fun. Also, at least I could probably rely on my army to pick up the slack - the same certainly can't be said for every army...

wyvirn
31-01-2012, 21:19
Spore mines aren't unequivocally bad, they just aren't designed to kill things. They stop infiltrators, mess up dawn of war deployment, and can prevent the enemy from deploying in cover. They're really there to play mind games with you opponents, and earning their points back indirectly.

Jo-Jo
31-01-2012, 21:32
I'll do one for Orks!

HQ - Mad Dok Grotsnik: Makes a unit fearless, which Orks can have anyway from mob rule, and he doesn't have a great statline.

Elites - Kommandos: Outflanking boys: a good idea at first, until you realise they are still only have a 6+

Troops - Non: It's pretty solid, boys are decent and grots are CHEAP :D

Fast Attack - Stormboyz: Suffer from the same problem as Kommandos, stormboyz are basically a zagstrukk delivery system.

Heavy Support - Flash Gitz/Zzap Guns: For all the reasons already discussed.

Lookin thought it, the Ork codex isn't that bad!

popisdead
31-01-2012, 22:39
How can i forgot Flash Gitz!! Useless overpriced crap!!

Except they aren't. At 25 PPM they are the exact same as a Nob with Eavy Armour and then they get the Gitfinda and a better gun.

While I feel they are a poor choice in the codex, they lack a transport, and wont' kill anything with shooting (something they should be doing) they are not one of the worst in the game.

For 180 points you can have 5 guys shoot (sure do nothing), then hit with 20 S5 attacks, plus poison on a 4+ I believe, then have a 4+/4+ save. That will tie up 5-marine heavy weapon units and in a Deff-rolla BW they have another use on the table.

Fawful
01-02-2012, 09:48
For those 180 points you can also get 30 boys, who will chop up a 5 man unit nice and propa without any need for reinforcements. Also, without a transport you only need one blast to clear them all from the table.

Born Again
01-02-2012, 11:24
While I'm not debating that Spawn aren't exactly shining examples of excellence, they're far from "completely useless" or "unable to do anything" as some have suggested. I use them, and have seen them take down mobs of orks before, or simply hold up units for several valuable turns. Granted though, I have also seen them charge across the board before apparently tripping over their own tentacle as they enter combat and impale their head on a sharp stick. With the two together though, that doesn't make them "bad", simply "very random", which some people don't like and I wouldn't be taking them to a tournament. For the games I play at home though, they're a mixed bag - not an entirely bad one. They'd be greatly improved by having random movement rather than always counting as moving through terrain, as that's the real killer when it comes to assault time.

Flash Gitz, too, are not a bad unit - they're just in the wrong slot. They should really be in Elites, they can't compete with all the other choices orks have in HS.

orkmiester
01-02-2012, 13:00
i'll partly agree on Mandrakes...

what were they thinking- their old rules were far better as at least it meant that thy could turn up roughly where you wanted them to, and having an ability which requires a pain point to start with?:wtf: a bit of a mess in what is a good codex.

though 'worst unit' in my view is relative to the player using said unit:angel:

however nid units are in a different league altogether...

just my humble view:angel: