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View Full Version : Hey guys - complete newbie here



Foxtrick
01-02-2012, 22:58
Hi all,

Well, I'm really new - like really... really new - that I have not even bought anything yet so I hope you will forgive my ignorance(and even posting in the wrong section?) :-)

I went to a Games Workshop for the first time today and was suprised at how friendly and helpful the staff were. I was quite nervous about the fact I'm an older player and that this kind of thing might be for a younger audience but by sounding interested and even excited about something of the things I was being told - no one seemed phased!

Anyway - some of the things I wanted to ask you guys were

a) It was explained I definitely needed a rule book and that the starter set would be awesome (and buying the set in individual parts would come to over 200!). Sounds great - and woefully expensive but I was hoping to just start a small army and go to some of the evening battles. I don't have any friends I can think of that would want to play with me so not sure a starter set would be the best? Plus did I read right that the start set has Elves and Skaven? Not sure if thats my first choice of race to work with. The guy pretty much said its best to just go with what you personally like for style and asthetics- forgetting everything else for the time being.

b) Is the rulebook a needed purchase - even if I go to play just once a week at a GW store? I got the impression there was an awful lot in there and perhaps not just rules?

c) Lizardmen, Warriors of Chaos and some sort of skeletal army - look quite cool - are they popular and do you think they would suit someone completely new to the game?

c) The GW paint set - again seemed really expensive - is it really worth the money? Or can you do just a good a job with other paints and brushes ?

d) Each race has a Codex - what is this for - is it like a general reference for an entire race and its history or is it more about suggested tactics in battle etc?

e) How far do the fan books/novels go - and are they race specific? For me I have quite a vivid imagination and would like to think I could buy and build my own army and have a book to really build a kind of meaning with (if that sounds geeky - sorry!)

f) Is buying second hand figurines considered as taking a lot of the fun out of building an army? I am still suprised at how much a small set of 4 or 8 are but I also wouldnt want the fun of building them up taken away from me by buying second hand (or at least at first?)

g) Is the White Dwarf magazine another good avenue to get stuck into to familiarize myself with Warhammer?

h) Do you get players in their 30's and how uncommon/common is it? Not that I mind younger players I just dont want to feel like the only sad individual! :-)

Thanks in advance and sorry to bore you with probably the same old questions you get most days - in fairness I did do a search on new players and there was no one 'completely new' that cropped up that could help with some of these questions. I am going back to the store tomorrow in my lunch hour to do a mini paint session and a small battle to see how things actually work!

Will let you know how I get on!

bluemage
02-02-2012, 01:57
I'll try to answer some of your questions.

a) you'll definitely need a rule book, but if you don't want to play high elves or skaven I wouldn't bother with the starter set. Your best bet you be to buy the mini rule book of ebay for around $30, hopefully its $15 but last time I checked they were more than that.

b) The rule book is a needed purchase as the game has a lot of rules. The big rule book has also sorts background information and is filled with a bunch of interesting pictures of armies and artwork and explains the setting. There's also the mini rule book that comes in the starter set. You'll need to buy one of them.

c) Most armies would be good for beginners, lizardmen, warriors of chaos, and the undead armies would be fine. The thing to think about is whether you'll enjoy painting them or not, of whether the playstyle suits you. Some people will tell you to stay away from certain armies because they aren't beginner friendly. Well this hobby is expensive and you won't be a beginner forever so if you want to play a specific army, don't worry about if it's beginner friendly or not and just enjoy the game. You can also come on here to get help improving your tactics and army lists so even complex armies won't be very challenging to get the hang of.

d) Yeah each army has an army book to go along with it, it has the armies history, pictures and background information. But it also contains all the rules and point costs for playing that particular army. Its something you'll need to buy for which ever army you go with.

e) I don't really read them much, I think a lot of them are poorly written. I think most of them are race specific focusing on a single character but someone else can answer this question better than I can.

f) There's nothing wrong with buying second hand to save money. There's also number of online discount retailers available where you can buying thing's for less that GW's retail price.

g) I don't care for white dwarf much. One thing to understand is that about half of the issues focus on 40k and the other half are about fantasy, so if you have no interest in 40k half the issues are pointless. There might be some interesting things in white dwarf, but a common opinion on white dwarf (that I share) is the its just full of advertisements and a waste of money.

h) I don't think there's anything wrong with it, I've people in there 50's and old playing and no-one thinks anything of it.

A couple of other things I'd like to share before those store employees get you spending too much money. The mega paint set is cheaper than buying all of those GW paints individually but you don't need all of those paints. GW's modelling supplies are incredibly overpriced and mostly worthless so don't buy them. Stay away from their plastic glue, and just buy plastic modeling cement. Same goes for their super glue. You'll want some basing materials but those are best found online made buy someone else. Also their brushes, files, clippers and other stuff can be found else where for much less. There are also other companies that provide alternative miniatures, most of which are cheaper than GW, some also look better. One thing to keep in mind before buying them is that you won't be allowed to use them in the GW store. However all the gaming groups I know of are fine with alternative miniatures.

Col. Dash
02-02-2012, 02:18
a) He is correct. You do not want to get stuck painting or playing an army you do not like the looks of, regardless of the rules of the army. If you think it looks cool play it.

b)Used to be you could get away with not having bought the rule book, but GW got smart and put the main magic items list in the rulebook so now you need it plus whatever army book you decide to go with. (which you will need even if you buy the starter set.)


c)The undead armies are the relatively updated. Both are fairly competitive with the newer armies which they are gradually updating. Warriors of chaos is pretty point and click. Tough, heavily armored, run them towards the enemy. Lizards are my favorites out of the bunch you listed, really cool and characterful. Mages are debatably the best casters in the game. I expect a big hit with the nerf bat when they get updated, but given how they really didnt overpower the Vampire Counts and made them balanced, I see them staying on par. But an update is pretty far on the horizon.

c) The GW paint set - Buy the paint colors you need. Some basics will help, white, black, bleached bone, scorched brown, and boltgun metal. You can also buy prtty much any acryllic paints from a hobby craft store. GW does make excellent metallics though.

d) Each race has a Codex - what is this for - is it like a general reference for an entire race and its history or is it more about suggested tactics in battle etc? yes. You need it to play your army. Has the points costs for units, picture examples, and maybe a little on tactics but not too much.

e) How far do the fan books/novels go - and are they race specific? For me I have quite a vivid imagination and would like to think I could buy and build my own army and have a book to really build a kind of meaning with (if that sounds geeky - sorry!) Ummm Black Library isnt known for its literary genius. I havent read many Fantasy novels but with 40k you have a couple really good to decent writers and some you have to wonder it they passed high school English.

f) I buy and sell figures on bartertown and ebay all the time. Its a good way to save a few bucks and if you arent good at painting, pick up models to aspire to. I did when I first got into the hobby 20+ years ago. I finally reached the level of the original models and repainted them better. Great feeling of accomplishment.

g) Yes but it is a giant advertisement for GW games. You might get a single decent article per mag, odds are it wont be about anything you care about though. Pretty pictures though.

h) Very common to get new players in. I was talking to a woman tonight who was interested in the new Vampire counts and she is in her 40s. Its weird they target the game for teens, but I think we have less than half a dozen teens who play. Most of my store is 30+ with high number of military vets and retirees. You wont be alone. You might try finding a local non-GW gamestore as well. I went to a GW store just to say I have been heheh.

Good luck and welcome to the hobby! Its a lot of fun and as my parents used to say in the beginning, its better than me doing crack :P

Balerion
02-02-2012, 03:10
The biggest tip I can give is the following: don't buy any of your models at a Games Workshop location!

Find an online retailer and take advantage of the 20% to 30% discounts that are commonly available. This is key advice for any newcomer, since they tend to be filled with gusto and won't shy away from a spending spree at GW, not knowing any better and wanting to get their army off the ground. But you'll obviously get more bang for your buck if you pay discounted prices, and that can be important for a beginner who is trying to get their army to a certain points level as quickly and efficiently as possible.

Regarding the rulebook, you have two options. There's an expensive hardcover edition you can find anywhere, which contains the full ruleset but also a large amount of background material. Then there is a downsized paperback version of the rulebook that comes in the starter set. It has the full ruleset, but omits all of the background extras. This version cannot be purchased separately, except in venues like Ebay (where sellers make a business of opening starter kits and selling the components individually).

A newcomer is just about the only person I'd actually recommend the hardcover version to, since you'll probably benefit a lot from the background material (and the army descriptions may help you decide which army to play). However, the softcover is far more practical to carry to or consult during a game.

Of the armies you listed, Lizardmen are probably the most beginner-friendly, since they are well-rounded and can compete in every phase of the game. Warriors of Chaos are a strong list, but as has been mentioned they are relatively point-and-click, and starting out with them may inhibit your development as a general. Both Undead armies are cool, but take some finesse and strategy to play (and Vampire Counts have next to no presence in the shooting phase, which may disappoint a newcomer who is hoping to experience the full scope of the system).

FashaTheDog
02-02-2012, 04:36
As far as paints go, you can use most any brand you like. I've used Testors, Foley Best Color, Windsor & Newton, GW, Vallejo (which make the exact same colors as GW, including the dropped ones), and a half dozen others. Acrylic paints are the easiest to use, but oil based paints are really just as easy. I use mostly GW paint because those are the ones I've used on most of my models, but I also use Windsor & Newton heavily as I can use interference as the GW ones are far too thin for that. Vallejo just fills the gaps in color GW no longer makes, and Testors has gone by the wayside except on a few vehicles. The most important thing is to be consistent with the brand as otherwise you will find that your army starts to look a little funny as the shades vary enough throughout to look off.

Modeling supplies are generally best bought from companies other than GW as there are many cheaper and superior products out there. Take the spraygun, for $5 at Harbor Freight, or a similar discount tool store, you can get a real airbrush that can do everything the GW product can and more, such as detail work. The propellant is actually priced only slightly above the average and is universal to any airbrush, so no problem there but shop around just the same or use a compressor. The files, saw, snips, drill (pin vice), and sculpting tool are all over priced and in some cases the exact same thing (even to the brand as GW gets them from the same supplier, case in point the foam cutter was the exact one Michael's sold but with a GW sticker on the handle, the green and white was still visible below). Green stuff is actually two part ribbon epoxy putty. You can get that at most any automotive store, athough many of those brands are actually blue and come in a tube with one part wrapped around the other. Much cheaper than GW and GaleForce 9. Flock has many cheap alternative brands, although I personally prefer Woodland Scenics as with practice and a set of flocks you can do better, but it does require that you get more than a single type and requires experience. The Water Effects is actually the exact same stuff as Woodland Scenics Pour-able Water and the Woodland Scenics Water Effects is a different product that is used in conjunction to make waterfalls, ripples, and the like. GW PVA is Elmer's and their super glue is similar to Loctite, both of which are cheaper.

As far as tools go, you may want to actually look into getting a Dremel, and I recommend the brand specifically, if you continue on with table top wargaming. Not something to pickup in your initial go, but if you're still into the game after a while, it is definitely a good purchase and one you'll find that has plenty of non-wargaming uses around the house as well. I got one almost a decade ago and I wonder how I ever got along before. A small warning if you do eventually get one, do NOT use it on resin models unless you have a mask OSHA approved for fiberglass as the tool will send resin particles into the air and you do not want those in your lungs.

As to the army you wish to play, find the local gaming group and talk to them. Many players have been playing this game for many years and have amassed loads of models and a variety of armies. Ask for demo games to get a feel for the system and watch other games. This way you get a feel for how the game will go with the armies that interest you. Fantasy has more distinction between armies than 40K (there are a number of Space Marine armies in 40K that all play differently, but can allow you to partly assemble your models and proxy your way to a choice or even paint once and swap Codices as you go) so it may be harder to change strides if you find that while you like the models, the play style is a huge turn off. By just hanging out and watching you can really get an idea of which one you want to start with.

As others have said your basic starter kit will be:
Rulebook, either small one or the hardcover.
Army book
Regular dice
Tape measure
Probably templates and artillery dice

Once you finally decide on an army there is one more thing to consider that most gamers, even the most experienced ones, often neglect for longer than they should; a proper carrying case. The GW ones are decent, KR Foam makes replacement inserts that hold more, but you can also go with Battle Foam, Sabot, or even a toolbox lined with layers of egg crate foam bedding cut into strips. To start you may find that you just glue your models together and the box at hand is good enough, but once you paint them, you will find yourself needing an alternative and it is best to keep an eye open for one, especially if you are on a budget. I've found that short term solutions are often costlier in the long run as several of my armies have outgrown their case and I had to buy a new one (fortunately I have many armies and others can inherit those) so try to think about what you will have so there is space to grow into. Watch Ebay, even when you're not really looking to buy as there will be deals out there you will want to grab, especially on cases. All of the hard GW ones I own were either part of an army I bought from someone else, or a bargain on Ebay. I have seen some people use those rolling luggage and stack trays of foam inside and line the edges so they stay or even bought the carry cases from Battlefoam that are that size. I've picked up numerous toolboxes that fit the pluck and pull foam as well as using egg crate foam to line them. It is just something you should always be on the lookout for as you can be surprised at the solutions that come up.

Now White Dwarf is not what it once was, but you should take a flip through if the store doesn't mind as there are issues worth getting. Many times there will be painting guides in them that you will find of great use and the expansions, scenarios, and new unit/datasheet/scroll of binding/what have you are nice. There are occasional articles that are a good read as well. I have a subscription and while much of it is a shameless ad, there is overall enough worthwhile content that I feel it is worth getting. It is, however, something that you need to look at a few issues of to decide for yourself if it is worth the $9. A subscription will save you some 30% and allow you to buy the yearly limited run model (a Dwarf pirate this year), so it does drop the price per issue to $6.25, but you pay the cost all at once for the year.

The books, while not written to the highest of standards, are still fun stories. They provide great detail into the setting, giving you a batter feel than reading the just the grand overview presented in the Army Books. They are quick reads and are full of little details and references that can leave you inspired to theme your army or start a particular race. While it is a 40K book, Dead Men Walking really highlights a single world's Guard force, the Death Korps of Krieg, and the Necrons they fight, providing a great look at them that may be missed from a read through their Codices or the big rule book. While most of the Black Library stories do focus on individuals and their deeds, you really get a lot out of it about the setting and armies as well. Not classic literature by any means, but worth reading if you have the time.

lordfeint
02-02-2012, 05:04
a) He's 100% right.

b) Yes.

c1) Lizardmen, Warriors of Chaos and some sort of skeletal army. Not only do they look cool, but they're fine for beginners. WoC are very new player friendly in both price and power. Lizzies can get expensive. You could probably easily buy a decent force of TK or VC using a mix of GW and other models. They're both fun and best of all have BRAND NEW 8TH ED ARMY BOOKS!!!! If you like the looks of an army, then thats a good place to start. If it has a playstyle you like and is easy on the wallet, (well, nothing Warhammer related is easy on the wallet) then better still. If money is a valid concern, I'd stay away from high troop number armies like Skaven and O&Gs. As well as armies that have a lot of metal minis. (Dwarfs sadly) A strong new army that is pretty cheap is Ogre Kingdoms. You can check it out and see if it's something you'd like.

c2) I like some GW paints. I LOVE Devlan Mud washes. But I probably have more Reaper paint than any other. Same deal with brushes. Just get good quality stuff and take care of it. Oh, and thin your paints. I can't say that enough.

d) They give you all the details you'll need to field your chosen army. As well as fluff, paint ideas, etc. You'll need the one for the army you choose. I'd suggest thumbing through some at your flgs if possible before finally settling on an army.

e) I don't know. Having grown up reading some of the most vile D&D novels ever penned, I can't bring myself to read fantasy novels anymore.

f) Buying 2nd hand is one of the best, if not THE best way to fill out the ranks of your army. Be warned that the painted stuff is usually horrible and the assembled stuff is often just shoddily thrown together with no care taken to touch up the model. This isn't 100% the case, but is more often than not.

g) I couldn't tell you.

h) I'm 41 (Dwarfs). We have a married couple that run Skaven (both mid 40s), Our WoC player is our baby at 34. Our Oldest is our Empire player who's in his early 50s. So yeah... We have players that occasionally come in that are 20s, and my son gave it a go. (He was 19 at the time) But our core group of players (playing since 2004) are all getting up in age.

Manling
02-02-2012, 05:27
Best thing to do as a newbie is to buy the big red book and read through the rules and the fluff. they even have the different races and what they are and their overall theme. Bretonnians being Chivalric Fuedal knights, and Lizardmen as Aztec lizards steeped in history. From Chaos being either bloodthirsty killers to scheming wizards.

Find a race you can see yourself playing and no matter what never feel like your pigeonholed into one color scheme. Every army has the opportunity to be as colorful as you want it to be.In the Empire army even troops from the same prvince can have radically differnt takes on the same colors. my Bretonnian Army has different units painted to show a large theme of togetherness. I have one unit sporting Crusader crosses and another the Crescent and my Archers sport a color scheme of pink against breast cancer. so dont worry about Getting the paint right just focus on what you want to do.

GW is a great place to cut your teeth as the staff will help you learn how to do conversions and use modelling tools to make better and coller army models. GW staff are resevoirs of knowledge as much as people knock them they have great people and its good to support your local store to make the hobby more enjoyable.

theJ
02-02-2012, 09:24
a) It was explained I definitely needed a rule book and that the starter set would be awesome (and buying the set in individual parts would come to over 200!). Sounds great - and woefully expensive but I was hoping to just start a small army and go to some of the evening battles. I don't have any friends I can think of that would want to play with me so not sure a starter set would be the best? Plus did I read right that the start set has Elves and Skaven? Not sure if thats my first choice of race to work with. The guy pretty much said its best to just go with what you personally like for style and asthetics- forgetting everything else for the time being.
The starter set is great - if you're into Skaven or High Elves. If not, I'd advice you to buy a battalion for the army you prefer, and buy the main rulebook, army book, markers and dice separately. The mini-rulebook is nice, but hardly necessary. In fact, as a new player, the big one might be preferable, as it gives loads of extra information about the game.


b) Is the rulebook a needed purchase - even if I go to play just once a week at a GW store? I got the impression there was an awful lot in there and perhaps not just rules?
You'll need the rules, yes. You've got a choice of either the "mini" found in the starter kit(ebay is your friend if you don't want the whole starter), or the big one with all the extras. You'll also need the army book for your army.


c) Lizardmen, Warriors of Chaos and some sort of skeletal army - look quite cool - are they popular and do you think they would suit someone completely new to the game?
Warriors and Vampires are some of the most popular armies in the game atm. Lizardmen and Tomb Kings slightly less so, but still nice armies. Any of them should suit your needs, really.
If you choose Vampires, I'd advice you to wait just a little while longer though, as they're rumoured to be getting a new battalion on the 18th.


c) The GW paint set - again seemed really expensive - is it really worth the money? Or can you do just a good a job with other paints and brushes ?
No reason why you can't use others. The GW stuff is nice, but any paint should work fine, really.


d) Each race has a Codex - what is this for - is it like a general reference for an entire race and its history or is it more about suggested tactics in battle etc?
Technically, all the 40k armies have codices, we've got army books instead.
The army book is there to supply everything you need for a specific army - from fluff to extra rules and the army list itself. It's quite vital, really.


f) Is buying second hand figurines considered as taking a lot of the fun out of building an army? I am still suprised at how much a small set of 4 or 8 are but I also wouldnt want the fun of building them up taken away from me by buying second hand (or at least at first?)
Some of it goes away. It's a good way of getting the bulk of your forces so you can start playing some actual games, but you'll probably want some fresh models on the side to mess around with.


g) Is the White Dwarf magazine another good avenue to get stuck into to familiarize myself with Warhammer?
Not really. If you're after fluff, the big rulebook and the various army books are your primary source of info. For painting, your best bet is to simply ask your local shop for a few lessons ('tis free! :D). If you ever have any questions, it's usually a better idea to ask around on a forum like this one, than to hope your issue is brought up in the magazine.
White Dwarf includes a few gems from time to time, but its mostly advertisement. Read an issue or two if you'd like, just don't set your expectations too high.


h) Do you get players in their 30's and how uncommon/common is it? Not that I mind younger players I just dont want to feel like the only sad individual! :-)
Varies from area to area, but the shops themselves are usually dominated by the young 'uns. Older players tend to create gaming clubs to get away from the kiddos, so if you're ever feeling lonely, seek those out.

boli
02-02-2012, 10:21
Since everything else is pretty much covered I'll just add my point about paints

First of all the GW paints are nice.. really nice - but also really expensive I started out with this (http://www.google.co.uk/products/catalog?q=Galeria+Acrylic+paint&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-GB:official&client=firefox-a&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=shop&cid=332087292544761918&sa=X&ei=MWAqT-DaD8brOfvr6PoN&ved=0CIgBEPMCMAE) actually. Initially the thickness was hard to use but once watered down (a 60/40 ratio) they are as good as the GW colours for a darn site cheaper!

If you can get hold of some old small paint pots (I had my old GW paints and half were dried up so I cleaned them out) then you can pre-mix the colours into small pots and it makes it *far* easier to use. One small tube makes up about as much paint of the same consistancy/quality as 2 pots of GW paint for a *lot* cheaper.

I do purchase a few GW paints tho - washes are the main one - I tried using acrylic inks but I could never get the consitancy right; but a purchase of Ogryn Flesh/Delyn Mud and blue/black/red/green washes was well worth the money. Also metalics are hard to find elsewhere so Boltgun metal, Shining Gold and Mythril Silver.

Actually I also purchased GW White, Grey and offwhite as I foudn the white with the set produced chalky results which whilst good for mixing wasn't good for anythgin pure white (such as high Elves)

Brushes are a cheaper in modeling shops over GW.. but be prepared to pay for good quality ones generally they are similar prices for the decent ones (and it is worth investing) but you get a much bigger range of sizes/stiffness/shape.


As for which army.. click here (http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/landing.jsp?catId=cat440007a&rootCatGameStyle=) and spend some time going "ooooh and awwww" on each army... one will stand out to you and that's your army :)

Oogie boogie boss
02-02-2012, 10:48
If it were me, and if i were starting out again knowing what i know now, i would do the following in order:

1. Buy a rulebook. You can get a smaller 'abridged' version online for less money, but i'd favour investing in the hardbacked bible, particularly if you haven't decided on an army yet. The complete version has some nice segments on army backgrounds and some nice photos of the model ranges which may help you to decide which army to play.
Spend a couple of days getting your head around the rules and the background to the game, and try and tease out some ideas about what aspects interest you the most and which armies fit the bill for that aspect; i.e Shoooting, magic, combat, being quick and aggressive, slow and resilient, versatile, 'wacky', etc.

2. Write a short list of armies whose play styles and backgrounds you like the look of. Then go on the GW website and check out the model ranges for those armies. Rule out the ones you don't really fancy. By now should have at most three or four armies in mind. Spend sometime thinking about it, asking other gamers, checking out they're tactics and play style nline till you know what you want to do.
Also, if you really like the look of an army, and like the idea of it, but others tell you it isn't 'beginner friendly', ignore them and go for it. You're more likely to spend the time mastering an army you enjoy collecting than an 'easier' army you don't really like. Besides, you've spent money on it, so you should have fun collecting it. You may lose a few games to begin with, but you can pick up how to play any army fairly quickly.

3. When you've decided on what army to collect, get the army book. Pour over it till you feel like you're really immersed in the nature and style of the force, and have an idea of what units and characters you want. Then have a think about how you'd want to paint them. At this point i would say don't buy your first figures pre-painted online. If you collect an army like this then you'll be missing out on a big part of the hobby and a lot of fun. If down he road you decide you want to add to your army quickly or have discovered painting just isn't your cup of tea, then fine. But in the beginning, you should start from scratch.

4. Once you've decided what army you want and ho you want to paint it, go and buy a character and a unit. This is a good way to start a force as it gives you a core you can build around later. I'd also say avoid the paint set. Most armies don't use more than 8-10 paints, so figure out which you need and buy them and a couple of brushes individually.
This should get you going on your army, and trust me when i say, it's a great feeling getting the first models of a new army finished.

5. After this point, i'd start expanding your army in 250pt chunks. That way you can build it stage by stage and you'll soon have a playable force to start gaming. After that, you're away!

Whatever you do, i hope you have a lot of fun, and that Warhammer becomes a lasting hobby for you as it has for the rest of us. Let us know what you're collecting when you've decided!

Foxtrick
02-02-2012, 14:33
Thanks for the replies - you have all been really helpful and helped answer a lot of my concerns and worries :-)

I went back to the shop today and had a rough 500pt vs 500 pt battle which was pretty cool (Me - Skaven vs High Elf - Staff - assaulting a mage tower for a rare artifact). Was really quite cool and you can see how you can get drawn in when someone is so passionate and graphic of how things develop to help things be more. I found the pace quite fast (it was in my lunch over) and seriously complex! All in all fun.

I loved painting a Skaven infantry - not the best looking of models I must say but the high detail make you take great care and I see what you mean about pride in doing the first few. I've taken my Skaven back to the office now and will be visiting the store to finish off painting him tomorrow!

At the moment I'm leaning towards undead or the Lizards but the guy was saying best to buy a rule book to help me decide (I may buy that off eBay instead - 45 otherwise :( ), which would probably help me an awful lot with how complicated turns are.

Again thanks for the advise, and I think i''l upload a picture of the Skaven after he's finished !

Foxtrick
03-02-2012, 15:32
I've now been to my GW three times on my hour lunch breaks (Probably becoming a pest!)
Had two paint lessons on my freebie Skaven.

No idea if anyone wanted to see but I've attached a picture of my Skaven at my desk. I love the detailing you can put on these models. This freebie and some of the other pictures in this forum of Skaven has made me really like them - but not sure if more than the Lizardmen which may very well become my first army at the moment.

Thanks again for the great advice everyone (whenever my posts get approved by mods :P)

131376

Foxtrick
03-02-2012, 15:33
Thats weird its come straight through. Whilst my other posts - basically thanking everyone, has been moderated and awaiting approval! Sorry I'm not being ignorant.

Lantern
03-02-2012, 16:48
That's a great start for your painting. Skaven are a large army to collect, and I don't think there are may who would even paint all tht rank and file to that decent standard. In terms of army to collect, it might be useful to know where in the world you are (as apparently the Australian models are prohibitively expensive).
As someone who started Lizardmen last year, I think they are a great army that are not difficult to use, have lots of variety and can be simple to paint (basic undercoat and a wash can get them to a tabletop standard fairly quickly).
In terms of Chaos, they are an army with a low model count due to the high points costs of their often elite troops. I personally don't feel that their is enough variety, but I think I'm in the minority.
As for Vampires or Tomb Kings, I feel that thier armies both ignore too many core rules or have thier own extra rules that perhaps makes it better as a second army, once you have the basics down. On that note though, the Empire can actively take part in each phase of the game with one of the largest selections of troops (outside of the Orcs and Goblins) and in terms of learning the game, will allow you to cover most of the rule book.

Foxtrick
03-02-2012, 19:36
Well I'm not sure what has happened to my other posts so I'll say again in the hope the posts will appear - thanks to all who answered my questions, the support has been really encouraging and helped me no end :-)

Today I met a different staff member who was as friendly and helpful and as the other guy. I must say if it had been just a normal kind of high street shop with typical staff I may not have continued. Having someone there to talk to and ask questions whilst painting and playing so cool. I have to hand it to the GW staff so far - mind you has to be a fun job too.

Anyway, thanks Lantern, I've no idea how far people go with painting their models but I wanted to put in considerable effort to be sure I felt I could paint to a reasonable standard, glad to see you think so. The figure was pre-made and sprayed with a black base - do you think it has already been filed (I have not done any :P) ?

Yeah that is one of the things im looking at is variety. WoC look really nice but I imagine them being a bit too popular making them a bit of a cliche? I'm not quite taken by Lizardmens flying models but everything else is really lush looking and I imagine a lot you can do with them in paint color. I have been taken a liking too O&G and now also the Skaven, I think their self-inflicting weaponary is pretty endearing!

Otherwise I just need the green light from the wife to spend a little cash! not quite enough for a Battlion I don't think but just a small contingent would be absolutely awesome.

PS I'm in the UK - I think GW is generally expensive no idea what others think ?

Lantern
03-02-2012, 20:11
No problem :). When I said that Chaos had a low model count, I did mean it as a plus point, as less models to collect and paint might be easier for you, it's just my personal opinion that they don't have enough variety ( though others may disagree). On a side note, I am also 30 and collect Bretonnians, Dwarves and Lizardmen (although I have small ogre and deamon armies too, collect to just enough points for a tournament each).

Foxtrick
03-02-2012, 20:30
Thats the one race I forgot to mention - Bretonnians, they were the first to catch my eye online - quite interesting, would be lovely to paint I imagine. Could see myself trying to do too much and spoiling it, think thats why I've wanted to ignore them for the time being - but again very cool.

What point army is considered small? My GW shop said to get a game 1500 ish really ?

FashaTheDog
03-02-2012, 20:32
Average sized games are 2,500 points, so yes, 1,500 points is a small game.

Marauder_chieftan
03-02-2012, 20:35
There should be totally a thread where new painters can put up their really early paint work.

Lantern
03-02-2012, 20:41
I'd even suggest 1000 points, good enough for learning and you expand the 1500 points with whatever you feel your lacking. As for Bretonnians, a lot of people would tell you that they also lack variety, so to collect them, you would need to be very strongly attracted to them (as a fan of Arthurian legends, I was, and never looked back, although it helps that when I started Warhammer, Bretonnians were in the starter set). As for painting, you can either make each model an individual colour scheme (appealing to me as I had painted lots of space marines and wanted something different) or you can paint each unit in matching colours, like a Crusades Army (white cloth with a red cross on it - doesn't get much easier). Painting horses before you've painted a normal model can be daunting too (though it shouldn't be) so again, bare that in mind when making your selection.

With all that in mind , I personally think you should buy the main 30 rule book (I think that's the cost), because as well as the full game rules, it has a massive colour section for each army in the game and it might even draw your eye to something you hadn't considered.

Balerion
03-02-2012, 21:23
Thats the one race I forgot to mention - Bretonnians, they were the first to catch my eye online - quite interesting, would be lovely to paint I imagine. Could see myself trying to do too much and spoiling it, think thats why I've wanted to ignore them for the time being - but again very cool.

What point army is considered small? My GW shop said to get a game 1500 ish really ?
Personally, I find Bretonnians kind of boring... just a wall of steel-covered knights, for the most part. If you're ambitious you can go wild individuating each model with a unique paint scheme, since it's a look that's easily supported by the fluff, but they're still rather antiquated models that don't look as good as the more recent kits. They're also a strong candidate for one of the next books to be redone, so it may not be a good idea to start an army now and risk the rules changing and making your list obsolete, or seeing new models come out that put your old ones to shame.

1500 points may seem like a lot at first, but maxed-out characters can easily run in the 200 to 500 point range. So a 2500 point game is more like 1750 points of actual "army" plus a couple of expensive characters (or a 1500 point game like 1100 points of army plus a couple of slightly less expensive characters).

Foxtrick
03-02-2012, 21:55
I keep forgetting the rule book Lantern - hehe. Twice I've had the hefty tome placed in my grasp. It's 45 over here - but on eBay 30 ish for good second hand one. Think I'll get one in next couple of weeks.

Oh awesome you like Arthurian legend too? I don't know much about it, was hoping to pick up a book one day once I got some actual decent free time - something I've always been attracted to when I was younger but made a conscious effort to indulge myself.

Thanks again for the comments and yes I get what you mean about a wall of steel, I suppose the main attraction is just like you said - to just individualise them :)

Do Warhammer players ever try to make written stories based around their army and the Warhammer world -I guess to make it more involving and immersive - even scenes? With the dramatics I've seen by the GW staff and the passion people seem to have, I guess they do. Can't wait to get stuck in.

FashaTheDog
03-02-2012, 22:15
Oh awesome you like Arthurian legend too? I don't know much about it, was hoping to pick up a book one day once I got some actual decent free time - something I've always been attracted to when I was younger but made a conscious effort to indulge myself.

Read Malory, a good place to start as any.



Do Warhammer players ever try to make written stories based around their army and the Warhammer world -I guess to make it more involving and immersive - even scenes?

Do you enjoy breathing? I'll bet the answers to both questions are the same :p. I write battle reports on occasion from the vantage point of the generals of my Marienburg (Empire), Vampire Counts, and Chaos Warriors armies, respectively, General Haphir Jul Septinius of Marienburg, the Vampire Sephirul Pahi Tsujin, and Rhas'ijin Pheptulius, Kisai of Chen Ci-En, Great Seid of Tchar, High Shaman of Shunch, Lord Magus of Tzeentch, Herald of Flux, Bearer of the Eye, and Chosen of Change. I have yet to come up with one for my Daemons though.

boli
04-02-2012, 00:22
Thats the one race I forgot to mention - Bretonnians, they were the first to catch my eye online - quite interesting, would be lovely to paint I imagine.

I think you have your answer over which army you want :) Build a small army up of what you like the look of and play several games with them.. if you like the playstayle.. great! Expand it :D If not you'll prob have a better idea of what you like at that stage

Don't feel as if you are going to ruin the models at all - be as neat as possible with any gluing/assembly but the key is to practice painting as much as possible - you can strip the paint off the model and start again very easily! Simply soak them in Detol for 24hours and brush off the paint with a toothbrush... it's that simple.

Lantern
04-02-2012, 00:48
Lol, not worry, I'm from Glasgow myself, but things like prices escape me when I get into that 'must have' mentality.
Many people enjoy writing short stories about thier armies as it can often help with themes or even just to make an army feel like its yours and not just 'an army'. My own army story is actually built up over years of gaming as tabletop occurrences become stories and legends retold years later. But anyway, I think the point stands of getting the rule book first, as whilst I'd love to be responsible for getting another Bretonnian gamer started, I think you need to know 'what's out there' before making a choice. As mentioned by others, the Bretonnians are due a rules update in the next year or so, so that's a reason to wait (although if they get released and they end up looking super awesome, you may kick yourself for not getting them and building them up in preparation - its a double edged sword).

nicko84
05-02-2012, 16:14
I myself have only recently gotten into warhammer and was feeling exactly the same way about a month ago.
Being close to 28, with no friends who play warhammer, it was very daunting to walk into a games workshop. But, just
like you wrote, everyone in there was extremely friendly and I didn't feel out of place at all. Yes, a lot of the people
in there were younger than myself but I was far from the oldest (at times at least ;) ).

I agree with what everyone seems to say, as I was new to this hobby as well, I took advantage of the lower costs on several other homepages. So far I have probably saved almost 100 from buying bits and pieces from other retailers - and that's only getting all the starting stuff and only an army of around 1k points.

Getting my first army was daunting as well, but for myself it was quite an easy selection. I was drawn into the Orcs and Goblin world like many other people have been, and after deliberation by myself decided to go for a Goblin/Night Goblin themed army. (Also a bonus was that the Orcs and Goblin army book had recently been updated.) Yes it won't be the most competitive but as a new player I am playing to learn and have fun, and some of the unit choices scream out "9 times out of 10 everything I do will back fire but you'll still have fun!".

Either way, you're no way alone in being new to warhammer and slightly "over" the usual age of beginners. (Been going to
my local shop now for a couple of sundays to take part in beginners sessions. Last sunday it was myself and a... 10? year
old vs. two 14-15 year olds. And I wasn't treated differently at all.). So get stuck in and hope you thoroughly enjoy it!

TheJoeyberry
05-02-2012, 19:46
I'm also very new. About a month's worth of knowledge so far :S I chose wood elves- what did you go for in the end?

Foxtrick
05-02-2012, 20:02
Hey Nicko, thanks for the post. So you are getting games with a 1k point army? I was lead to believe I wouldn't really see much action with anything below 1500 points. Glad to hear it isnt completely nuts for someone my kind of age to step into something like this :-)

Pleased to hear things are going well for you.

Hey TheJoeyberry. I think I heard wood elves are kind of hippie like. Hope they are fun :). I haven't decided for definite yet, I've only just won the full hardback rule book on eBay tonight, hopefully will confirm a couple of things for me and make it clear who I will go with. Will let you know :)

TheJoeyberry
05-02-2012, 20:25
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EAyCYiVv6NU
I made a video about my journey through the hobby if you're interested. As another beginner maybe it'll be helpful. A lot of people have been helping me via forum comments that's why I cam here.
The first video is horrible quality but they get better (and funnier) but I'm in the same boat really and I still haven't bought a rule book :S
Wood elves are quite hippie-ish... I like that about them. Hippy/rogues :D Win for me.

nicko84
05-02-2012, 20:43
Hi again,

Well you are quite right, in order for me to join the thursday night sessions at my local games workshop I do need at least 1,5k. On the sundays that I've been down at the beginners
sessions I've only brought about 500+ points just to learn the basics of movement, combat etc. With no friends around who play, I felt that was the only way to gain some
experience playing so I won't turn up on a thursday night session no knowing anything. So far I have learnt plenty, like not keeping my Night Goblin units so close to each
other if the opponent brings a Monster that causes Terror (which results in my units have to take a panic test to see if they flee or not!). With Night Goblins having absolutely
rubbish leadership, I failed my test, but because my other units were so close, a domino effect occured and 4 of my units turned and ran! C'est la vie I guess!

Glad you got the rule book on ebay. Got mine there too and have used it a lot. So many things to take in!

FashaTheDog
05-02-2012, 20:49
The most epic pure goblin army, nicko, would have to be:

Night Goblin Shaman w/ power stone
18 units of 20 Night Goblins w/ 3 Fanatics each

You drop 360 Night Goblins and by forming a number of units into narrow columns (perhaps 1 model wide) and bunching them as close together as possible, you can unleash wave after wave of Fanatics and watch as hilarity ensues. Be sure to have the Benny Hill theme ready.

On a more serious note, Goblin armies are fun. Glad to see others taking a shine to such a wonderful theme.

Foxtrick
05-02-2012, 20:53
Oh I see. So the beginner sessions do allow for a lot smaller than 1.5k ? Thats good to know. Not sure if I can face going to a Sunday with lots of young un's oh well, I may not be able to resist! Ha!

Did you do any demonstration games with GW staff when you were getting ready to start? I found that useful but it was faced paced! So I take it the Thursday night sessions are the more serious ones then hence the need to have a full on army?

nicko84
05-02-2012, 23:41
Indeed, Thursday nights at my local are for the "grown ups". They get pizza in on those nights so it can't be all bad! Think it's usually around 5pm - 10pm, minimum is around
1,5k points and it's literally just full on gaming. Going to give them a bell tomorrow to ask if I can just come watch and ask a couple of questions, I find that I learn a lot just
by watching others.

The sunday sessions are simply to get a feel for the game. You don't need to have painted your units and they usually just want you to bring
one Core, Special, Rare and a Lord. Points are less important, this is just so that you learn the basics of game play. You can only learn so much from a book,
after a while you need to just give it a go.
Yes, playing against the little ones is weird, especially as there were 2-3 parents hovvering around the shop (Probably some of them weren't that much older than myself...)
But at the end of the day that's irrelevant and after the first session I have no problem what so ever with who I play against.

I did go several years ago to a startup session. But nothing ever happened after that, until now that is.


And fashathedog, ha, I'll have to bear that in mind. The Benny hill theme tune would give it an appropriate sound! Can only imagine the chaos that kind of game would cause.

Kayosiv
06-02-2012, 07:52
Do Warhammer players ever try to make written stories based around their army and the Warhammer world -I guess to make it more involving and immersive - even scenes? With the dramatics I've seen by the GW staff and the passion people seem to have, I guess they do. Can't wait to get stuck in.

Check out the first link in my signature. In it you'll find some of my stories, as well as a link to Lordofnonsensical Crap's battle reports. If you're looking for well written fluff about an army, he's the king in my eyes.

jtrowell
06-02-2012, 12:10
Hi again,

Well you are quite right, in order for me to join the thursday night sessions at my local games workshop I do need at least 1,5k. On the sundays that I've been down at the beginners
sessions I've only brought about 500+ points just to learn the basics of movement, combat etc. With no friends around who play, I felt that was the only way to gain some
experience playing so I won't turn up on a thursday night session no knowing anything. So far I have learnt plenty, like not keeping my Night Goblin units so close to each
other if the opponent brings a Monster that causes Terror (which results in my units have to take a panic test to see if they flee or not!). With Night Goblins having absolutely
rubbish leadership, I failed my test, but because my other units were so close, a domino effect occured and 4 of my units turned and ran! C'est la vie I guess!

Glad you got the rule book on ebay. Got mine there too and have used it a lot. So many things to take in!


What you describe seems like there could be a slight rule error: Terror by itself will only panic the one unit that the charge target, nearby units won't be affected if they are not the ones charged.

However you can have several units running if one of the following did happen:

1- the charged unit did fail the panic check, and the terror causing monster redirected the charge against another of your unit that also failed the panic check

Note that redirecting a charge can only be done once, and need the charging unit to make a leadership test

2- another way to have a panic chain reaction would be if the initial paniced unit fled throught another of your units. This is not the terror itself provoking panic, but the fact of the flee movement rules

3- last, if the unit fled but the charge move was enought to still catch it, then it is automatically destroyed, and being destroyed does make nearby allies unit test for panic.

I write all that because in previous editions of the game terror was more powerful (too much probably), making all nearby units test for panic, making for exemple a lone dragon able to make haf an army flee just by flying near you, and some players sometime still misremeber a rule from a previous edition of the game as it was still in place.

This is no longer as easy, thanks the new terror rules for that. ^_^