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View Full Version : Sigh, Another Ork Codex wishlist thread.



Kelpi
24-04-2006, 04:11
Im a long time Ork player and Im always thinking about how I would change the Ork codex. That being said I try to be objective as possible. Rip it to shreds people

So here are my suggestions:

Minus 1 point per boy

6+ Invulnerable save for all boyz

Multiple Level Warbosses, its been suggested a lot and I agree

12 points per stormboy.

Warbuggy and Killa Kan squads function independently (no being stuck near an immobilized vehicle)

Standard boyz I3, Nobz I4 both with +1 on waagh. Orks get run down too easily otherwise.

Lootas BS 3 no overheat, -1 attack

Clan Specific Upgrades on squads, eg huntas etc (needs to be threshed out)

A Condensed Troop Selection that looks something like this perhaps:

Basic Boy 7pts per model, same stats as a Shoota boy

May be lead by a Nob at +18pts

TROOP UPGRADES
plus 1 pt, Armed with Slugga and Choppa

plus 1 pt, Frag and Krak stikkbombs (may be combined with slugga and choppa)

(0-2) may be lead by Mekboy instead of nob at +9pts, up to 4 burnas are the only heavy weapons allowed

(0-2) plus 3 pts, armed with slugga, CCW, Frag and Tankbusta bombs. BS3 -1 attack

FAST UPGRADES
(Makes squad a Fast attack Choice)

Up to 10 Models May take a Wartrukk as transport) (Only 1 heavy weapon)

At +20 pts per model Models may take a warbike with TL Big Shootas and CCW (all current warbike rules). Warbikes may replace big shoota for Slugga/Choppa for free

ELITE UPGRADES
(Makes squad a Elite Choice)

plus 3 points, models have Eavy Armor

plus 0 points, all models may take a Kustom Job

plus 2 points all models become Skarboyz (+1 S) (may be combined with slugga and choppa upgrade)

(0-1) at +10 points per model, boys may be upgraded to Nobs, they retain any wargear they have and can take wargear from armory


HEAVY SUPPORT

Big Gunz remain the same but cost 22 pts instead of 30, +5 pts Ork big guns may count as AV11 all round.

WARGEAR

Gretchin - (The "Puny" Rule) Gretchin (but not squigs) purchased as wargear do not remove the Independent Character status from characters. They may not be choosen as casualties for shooting at an IC

Squigs - Squigs form a unit with an IC but they may still join other units. When with an IC they remove IC status

Grabba Stick (Slavers Only) - Lets the slaver make his full attacks from anywhere in the squad if the gretchin it has are in combat

Cybork Body +8pts, Instead of 10

Big Grabba/Boarding Plank etc Strength 7

Bolt on Big Shoota +8pts (2pt decrease)

Grot Riggers +3 pts (1pt increase)

Turbo Booster +3 pts (2pt decrease)

Urty Syringe Wounds on 4+, Power Weapon

Mega Booster +5 pts (5pt decrease)

chicodon
24-04-2006, 07:36
wow i like your list :D we should dicuss whats good and bad and perfect the list and maybe email gw with it (worth a try)

Orbital
24-04-2006, 08:13
I like most of what I read except for the invulnerable save part. I can't think of a single thing that makes it likely that a rank-and-file Ork should have an invulnerable save. In other words, if a krak missile hits him in the skull, his leather vest shouldn't have a 1 in 6 chance of saving him. :)

I am a huge fan of -1 points for boyz, however. Totally agreed there.

Getifa Ubazza
24-04-2006, 08:15
Some really good ideas there mate, only things i would add is a costom warboss similar to chaos lords and tyranid hive tyrants, lower points cost for nob retinues and combine ard boyz and skarboyz into one elite choice or give skarboyz the option of eavy armour.

The Dude
24-04-2006, 08:24
I want to see the return of Mega Armoured Nobz Mobz. Or even Nobz Mobz in general. They should be expensive, but 'ard az nailz.

starlight
24-04-2006, 08:28
Opposed to the Inv Save...still thinking on the rest.:D

Lots of good ideas.:D

Kelpi
24-04-2006, 08:52
I can understand people being a bit against about the 6+ inv save, I myself am still not 100% on it.

What I want is something that fits in with the fluff of Orks having multiple organs and being able to live from the most horrendous wounds. But your right there is no way an ork is going to survive a rocket.

Maybe a type of "Feel No Pain" Lite, on a 6+ the Ork ignores the wound as long as its not 2x toughness. I just didnt want to add too much complexity.

What do people think about the grot wargear not getting rid of IC status? I was finding my fixit Big Meks were dead meat if they wanted to have a chance of fixing anything, and since Grots are just about the smallest sneakiest (non swarm) guys in the game I thought they would be proficient at hiding behind their masters. That being said not being able to use them as a shield when they are shot at is a good trade off.

gLOBS
24-04-2006, 08:59
I think Mek custom force fields fill in the invul gap.

Plus I think HQ should be handeled as such

Up to 500 points-Lead by a Nob (Current Nob stats)
500-1500 points-Lead by a Mobboss (Current warboss stats)
1500+ Must be lead by a Warboss (+1 Strength,Toughness,Wounds of current warboss)

Kelpi
24-04-2006, 09:07
Kustom Force Fields are great for technologically advanced Orks but your backwater feral/snakebite orks are left out in the cold.

I love KFF's and they would still have thier place but the problem with them at the moment is that you are pretty much forced to use em.

Talking about KFF's would a rule similar to "Kustom Force Fields grant a 5+ cover save out in the open and +1 to the cover save if the Orks are already in cover" be too much?

BloodiedSword
24-04-2006, 18:31
Both Orks and Marines seem to have that, Marines possibly to a greater extent. Both have been known to ignore and fight on after wounds that would have instantly killed or taken out of action, a normal human (such as having limbs ripped off).

Marines have this reflected by their Toughness of 4, which represents it perfectly - it's harder for a hit to cause the kind of damage that would take the model out of action. The same applies for Orks, and I think it works perfectly.

Add that to the fact that the 6+ Invulnerable save grossly misrepresents what you're trying to do, and I don't think you're onto a winner there.

The upgrades things look interesting, though I don't know enough about orks to comment on those..

Da Reddaneks
24-04-2006, 19:03
I like most of what I read except for the invulnerable save part. I can't think of a single thing that makes it likely that a rank-and-file Ork should have an invulnerable save. In other words, if a krak missile hits him in the skull, his leather vest shouldn't have a 1 in 6 chance of saving him. :)

I am a huge fan of -1 points for boyz, however. Totally agreed there.

i think he was really meaning a 6+ FEEL NO PAIN roll and not have armor. I totally think that orks shoudl have a 6+ feel no pain roll and no armor. it woudl do very little as far as close combat goes but would help the boys footslog across the field. I do not think we should have an invulnerable save. Krack missles, battle cannon round, and powerweapons should kill orks.

and i like the list too. i will look at it a little more later.

starlight
24-04-2006, 19:20
Educate me here...what would be the difference?

Someone can PM me if it violates Forum rules.

Ironhand
24-04-2006, 19:23
Interesting ideas, and for the most part I think good ones. Multiple level warbosses would be very good. I'm totally in agreement with the -1 point per boy as well

I'm not in favor of an invulnerable save, but a 6+ "Feel No Pain" roll would be fine.

My personal pet peeve - I'd like to see Stikkbommerz have choppas.

Da Reddaneks
24-04-2006, 19:25
feel no pain doesnt work against powerweapons or weapons that are double the strength. AND you get to take it AFTER you make an armor save. Blood angel death company have a feel no pain on 4+!

but no armor and 6+ feel no pain i do think woudl be perfect for helpng orks footslog across a board. it would give us pseudo defense against bolter and heavy bolter fire.

and it really does fit the fluff perfectly.

starlight
24-04-2006, 19:36
So Feel No Pain is similar to Bionics/Cybork, but not quite as good.....sounds about right. Thanks.

However, I *do* have a concern about no armour. I'd expect at least *something* for armour. Even if it's just a save against Lasguns and such.

Da Reddaneks
24-04-2006, 19:54
So Feel No Pain is similar to Bionics/Cybork, but not quite as good.....sounds about right. Thanks.

However, I *do* have a concern about no armour. I'd expect at least *something* for armour. Even if it's just a save against Lasguns and such.

feel no pain would work against lazguns and everything *except* powerweapons and double strength weapons. It would actually be a little better than armor. you would get a 6+ save against lazguns, bolters, heavy bolters, plasma, psycannons, chain swords, and the like. We just wouldnt get it against powerswords, powerfists, krack missles, battle cannon shots an the like. things we dont get an armor save against anway.

i think it fits the fluff so well becuse there is so much out there about how durable orks are and its just not represented in game terms at all. Stories about an ork getting his arm blown off and being able to get up and keep on going. that is the feel no pain ability.

and i wouldnt have armor with it because i would want to keep the save fairly close to what we have now 6+ i.e. 17% chance. Except for Ard boyz. this would also be great for ard boyz because then they woudl get their 4+ and then the 6+. which would make for a surviveablity factor not quite as good as powerarmor but better than carapace armor.

starlight
24-04-2006, 20:10
Multiple Level Warbosses, its been suggested a lot and I agree

Generally accepted that the highest end Warboss will be T5.

Level one = current Nob
Level two = current Warboss
Level three = upgraded Warboss

The Dragon Reborn
24-04-2006, 20:18
he has different stages of warboss, I would assume that he would have a better warboss included with a T of 5 or even 6

I like the changes, well thought out.

as for feel no pain, I think that would be a good Idea but still keep an armour save of 6

{Edit}starlight beat me to it!

Da Reddaneks
24-04-2006, 20:27
Isn't the Ork resistance to pain and damage already adequately represented using a rating of 4 for the T stat?

and that is a great point nurglitch. and i can see your point very well. I am sure that the reason why orks have a 4 toughness was originally for that reason. Call if what you will, codex creep (which is what I really think it is) or ork favoritism on my part but i think that with the proliferation of Marine equivalents (MEq) out there a four toughness really doesn’t mean that much anymore. Most armies have it as well and do not have the scale of “fluff” that goes along with the orks about how “tough” they are suppose to be.

I don’t want the ork equivalent of “movie marines” (see white dwarf article for reference). In fact I really don’t want “better” orks. I want cheaper orks with more options. But a 6+ feel no pain and the removal of armor would not significantly alter anything but would add a very nice “touch” to the ork. The only time I really see it every even being a factor is in the footslog trek across the field in the face of bolter and heavy bolter (and the like) fire.

So if I admit that the difference here between 6+ armor and 6+ feel no pain would be very minor then why do it? Honestly, simply because it would not slow down game play, shouldn’t really add to the cost of the ork (as they are overpriced now for what you get), would give the army that is suppose to be the horde army of horde armies a little edge in trying to footslog across the board and, frankly, it just fits the fluff so much better.

Helicon_One
24-04-2006, 20:41
Im a long time Ork player and Im always thinking about how I would change the Ork codex. That being said I try to be objective as possible. Rip it to shreds people

So here are my suggestions:

Minus 1 point per boy

6+ Invulnerable save for all boyz
Ouch! Thematically I don't like the Invulnerable at all, and I don't think Boyz are actually overpriced. Combined with the +1 Initiative you mention below, this is horrible!


Multiple Level Warbosses, its been suggested a lot and I agree
A no-brainer. Bring on the Warlord HQ.


12 points per stormboy.
That is probably about right, actually. They at least are overpriced as they are now.


Warbuggy and Killa Kan squads function independently (no being stuck near an immobilized vehicle)
You know you can leave an immobilised vehicle behind under the current rules, don't you? OK, it becomes destroyed, but at least the rest of the squadron gets to move on.


Standard boyz I3, Nobz I4 both with +1 on waagh. Orks get run down too easily otherwise.
Considering the existing Mob Check rules, Orks should be severely disadvantaged once the enemy actually manages to break them. It seems very thematic for a whittled down and broken mob to become disorganised (more disorganised, I mean... they are Orks after all!) and easy pickings for an enemy. I2 seems to fit into that nicely.



Lootas BS 3 no overheat, -1 attack
Why should Lootas be better shots than, say, shoota boyz? Especially as they're using patched up fixes of wrecked Imperial gear.


Clan Specific Upgrades on squads, eg huntas etc (needs to be threshed out)
More Klanz stuff, definitely, but keep it seperate for the moment.


A Condensed Troop Selection that looks something like this perhaps:

- Basic Boy 7pts per model, same stats as a Shoota boy
- May be lead by a Nob at +18pts
TROOP UPGRADES
- plus 1 pt, Armed with Slugga and Choppa
- plus 1 pt, Frag and Krak stikkbombs (may be combined with slugga and choppa)
- (0-2) may be lead by Mekboy instead of nob at +9pts, up to 4 burnas are the only heavy weapons allowed
- (0-2) plus 3 pts, armed with slugga, CCW, Frag and Tankbusta bombs. BS3 -1 attack

Did you intend the upgrades to be mixable, or that each mob could only take 0-1?

I'd keep it a little simpler, personally, rather than shoe-horning all the mob types into one unit template:

Boyz Mob:
Boy 7pts, Nob +13pts, 10-30 per mob, armed with a slugga.
3 special weapons per unit (at current cost)
Mob options (any combination):
Add CCW: +1ppm
Upgrade slugga to Shoota: +1ppm
Add Fragbommz: +1ppm
Add Krakbommz: +1ppm.
Add Choppa: +2ppm (+1ppm if model armed with shoota)

This way, you merge sluggaz, shootaz and stikkbommaz into one unit, and have more options like 9pt Shootas with Choppaz ("charge uz, I darez yer") and 8pt Krakbomma Boyz without frags or CCWs. Leave Burnaz and Tankbustaz seperate, it messes with the basic Mob too much (because you have to fiddle with mob sizes, weapon options, Mekboyz instead of Nobz and so on) so keep things simple. If a Mek is present, give non-burna armed Burna Boyz access to a Kustom Job for their shoota or slugga to represent Orky tinkering.


FAST UPGRADES
(Makes squad a Fast attack Choice)

Up to 10 Models May take a Wartrukk as transport) (Only 1 heavy weapon)

At +20 pts per model Models may take a warbike with TL Big Shootas and CCW (all current warbike rules). Warbikes may replace big shoota for Slugga/Choppa for free

Again, I don't see the reason to use this basic Mob template for everything, Trukkboyz (and Warbikerz) are fine as a seperate option. Give them a far more customisable transport though.


ELITE UPGRADES
(Makes squad a Elite Choice)
- plus 3 points, models have Eavy Armor
- plus 0 points, all models may take a Kustom Job
- plus 2 points all models become Skarboyz (+1 S) (may be combined with slugga and choppa upgrade)
- (0-1) at +10 points per model, boys may be upgraded to Nobs, they retain any wargear they have and can take wargear from armory

Have a seperate 'Elite Mob' template to build on, but otherwise the above is not bad

Elite Mob: (Needs a better name, I know)
8pts, Nob +14pts, 5-20 per mob, armed with slugga+CCW or shoota
3 special weapons per unit (at current cost)
Mob options (any combination):
Add Choppa: +1ppm
Allow 4+ save: +3ppm
Add Fragbommz: +1ppm
Add Krakbommz: +1ppm.
+1 Strength for entire squad: +2ppm
Allow Kustom Jobz: +0ppm (allow any combination of Kustom Jobz, including Kustom Sluggaz and Kustom Choppaz)
Allow Infiltrate: +1ppm (may not be combined with 4+ save or +1 Strength)

Leave the Nobz Mob seperate


HEAVY SUPPORT

Big Gunz remain the same but cost 22 pts instead of 30, +5 pts Ork big guns may count as AV11 all round.
Big Gunz should be AV10, I think, it just fits. Cheaper is probably good though. The most important HS addition is the super-customisable battlewagon, of course.


WARGEAR
The aforementioned Kustom Jobz for Choppaz go in here (I wrote these up once, but they've vanished). Plenty of other stuff, which will come back to me later, I'm sure....

Tim

Kelpi
24-04-2006, 22:13
I like your mob arrangement Helicon_One. I think I was trying to cram too many things into a single choice, but the general idea of it is good.

Im now officially against a 6+ invulnerable for Ork boyz, and officially for a 6+ "feel no pain lite".

I wanted Orks to have a small chance to save against almost any type of small arms fire. They still get hit and wounded but it only takes off their arm, or the 2nd spleen. Tis just a scratch. I believe it would fit well with the fluff and make Orks that bit more survivable without overpowering.

Toppan
24-04-2006, 22:20
three words: shoota/slugga GIRLZ

Nurglitch
24-04-2006, 22:42
Something I liked to imagine is that Orks are all butch female. Thus the 'boyz' are 'boiz' if you will.

Da Reddaneks
24-04-2006, 22:48
three words: shoota/slugga GIRLZ

Here is my hottie ork pic i posted on another thread. http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=33080&page=5

Grot
24-04-2006, 23:01
Why should Lootas be better shots than, say, shoota boyz? Especially as they're using patched up fixes of wrecked Imperial gear.

Because, exactly like the huntas in the feral ork list, having no access to meks, ammunition, or guns that you don't pick up off the floor tends to give you a better balistic skill. [/sarcasm]

Or, if you want a reason that isn't cobbled together, Lootas represent veteran shoota boyz who have been around long enough to gain a 'special' shooting ability, (having spent a great deal of time being shoota boys and not slugga boys, as veterans, they would have a +1 to BS instead of a +1 to S, and that would also explain Kelpi's -1 attack suggestion) and who are then placed in squads where they have access to the best weaponry the warband can muster. (Sort of like devestators, except in this case the guns are stolen.) The "Oops sorry mate" rule could also represent a mek's tinkering, in fact unintentionally making something worse instead of better.

In fact, I'd be tempted to suggest even another 'drawback' rule, where a roll of 1 to hit is the overheat rules (or 'mek's mistake' rule), a roll of 2 to hit is the 'oops, sorry mate' rule, but the lootas would then gain a __% discount when buying stolen weapons.

Or, something along those lines, anyway.

[Edit] And the Flash Gitz, then, would not necessarily represent orks who were better shots (veteran shoota boys), but they would simply be orks who were richer than your average shoota boy.

Panzer MkIV
24-04-2006, 23:02
Disturbing:eek: :eyebrows:

The Emperor
24-04-2006, 23:42
Multiple Level Warbosses, its been suggested a lot and I agree

I'd definitely like to see the return of the Big Boss, as the idea of a Warboss in every single Ork army irritates me a bit.

Toppan
24-04-2006, 23:49
specialized warbosses plz
like...one with more BS
one with more WS and attacks
one with more T and armor
one with more S and W
or mix and match upgrades and call them trophies of battle...sorta like the tyranid crap