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Monk813
02-02-2012, 05:38
Hello all. I come to you guys with a little favor. I'm trying to run a campaing for my buds, which at the moment consists of only three players (though I've been told I might get up to three more). The definite armies are going to be Grey Knights, Blood Angels and Tyranids. Anyhoo, on to the favor part. I was hoping, as the title suggests, to get some feedback on the rules I've come up for it. It's going to be a map campaign and first stump I've really encountered is I'm not sure 1: how big to make the map and 2: if I should use a hex grid or make it a more organic style map...

Turn Options
-Move/Attack
-Fortify (up to 3 times)
-Gather Intel

MOVE - All movements are made at the same time by writing down the territory's coordinates in secret and giving them to the GM. You may spread your control to an adjacent territory if it is unoccupied.

If two or more players move to the same territory in the same turn a battle will be fought to determine control with deployment and mission rolled for randomly. If the battle is a draw the players can either agree to both withdraw from the territory (to rearm and regroup) or to both remain locked in contestation of the territory, escalating the point value for the battle in the next turn (calling in reinforcements).

ATTACK - You may attack an adjacent occupied territory. The points value will be determined by the Fortification level in the given territory except in cases of special battles/territories.

The attacker may either roll for deployment or determine it himself (indicating the direction from which he chooses to launch his assault). The defender may either roll for mission or determine it himself (indicating the parameters he has chosen to measure success or failure).

The attacker has first turn but the defender may steal the initiative. If the defender wins, the attacker is pushed back and must withdraw. If the attacker wins, the defender is pushed back and must withdraw. The attacker then occupies the territory. In the event of a draw, the defender remains in control of the territory and the attacker may choose to either withdraw or continue the siege, escalating the battle.

FORTIFY - Instead of Attacking or spreading your territory, you may choose to focus your efforts on strenghtening your hold on the territories you already control. Each territory has an initial Fortification value of 0 indicating that no defensive measures have been taken and only a detatchment has been left behind as a garrison.

Each point in Fortification taken allows the defender that many Fortifications from the appropriate list.

GATHER INTELLIGENCE - It is a fool who rushes ahead blindly without knowing what lies ahead. You may focus your efforts on learning what you can about your opponents. If this option is chosen, you may draw from the Intelligence deck and use the bonus provided whenever you like.


FORTIFICATIONS -

GREY KNIGHTS/BLOOD ANGELS -
-Bunkers
-Gun Emplacements
-Walls/Tank Traps/Barbed Wire
-Auxilleries

TYRANIDS -
-Spore Chimneys
-Brood Nests
-Capillary Towers
-Auxilleries

POINTS LEVEL
-0 - Up to 500 pts
-1 - Up to 750 pts
-2 - Up to 1000 pts
-3 - Up to 1250 pts
-4 - Up to 1500 pts
-5 - Up to 1750 pts
-6 - Up to 2000 pts
-7 - Up to 2500 pts
-8+ - Apocolypse Game

INTELLIGENCE -
-Army Composition - You may look at your opponent's army list before creating your own.
-Troop Movements - You may choose your action after determining your opponent's actions.
-Enemy Objectives - You may see your opponent's objectives map.
-Supply Routes - You may subtract 1 from your opponent's reserve rolls, and may force a re-roll on his outflank roll. Furthermore, any units your opponent brings from reserve suffer a single wound, vehicle units suffer a single a single glancing hit.
-Counter Intelligence - When played, you may cancel the effects of 1 other INTELLIGENCE Card.

This is what I have so far. Again any feedback, and I mean any feedback, is completely welcome. If I have a good start, if it's too complicated/simple, if it's just plain stupid I'd like to know. First time I've done something like this and want it to be awesome for my players. Thanks guys!

wyvirn
02-02-2012, 05:52
Supply routes effectively kills any lists the tyranids have with a fighting chance against the 2 SM.

Monk813
02-02-2012, 06:07
Would it be better if I took out the part about the single wound and glancing hit? Or do I just need to scrap this one entirely? And what kind of reasoning can I give for the BA and GK players to be attacking each other?

TheDoctor
02-02-2012, 06:45
Blood Angels: Fought some chaos

Ward Knights: PURGE ALL THE BLOOD ANGELS!!!

Deadly Cornbread
02-02-2012, 06:47
If this is your first campaign I'd recommend something a bit less rules intensive. Though map based campaigns are fun, you really need a dedicated group of players to make them work. Ive run a few detailed map Campaigns and usually player attrition is very high. Look at the planetary empires rules and find a few ways to tweak it in your own way.

And another point to make is when you have all the rules you like written down, take half and ditch them. You'll find the campaign is smoother this way. All players playing, no GM to speak of. The GM's job is thankless.

But that's my thoughts on it. But I digress, opinions on your campaign. As mentioned above, the supply routes intelligence is a bit much. Especially with the races that are on the table. I also think each team or player should have 1 fortified base of operations. Fortifying locations can be a bit much, especially if all players end up fortifying for multiple turns (turtling) and when they push out, it becomes painful for any of the attackers.

What I like to do in my campaigns is stipulate an end point. Both in game terms and real life. If you don't have a clear defined point when the campaign will end, it can end up lasting for months and months, and players will loose interest. So let's say each campaign turn takes one get together to play through, you can tell players the campaign will last so many weeks if you play once a week. It's easier for players to make a commitment if they know how long it will take. I find a month long campaign is about as long as people will stay engaged most of the time.

Something else fun to do, each campaign turn, have a 2D6 table for campaign turn effects. So on a new campaign turn, a random player rolls on the chart and it may be "heat wave" when a battle begins, each player chooses D3 non vehicle units. The selected units start the game "pinned" as detailed in the war hammer 40K rule book. Or "Solar Eclipse" all battles fought during this campaign use the night fighting rules. Adds a but of spice to the game.

Regardless, feel free to PM me if you would like any more ideas, or further feedback on any changes to your campaign. Or if you would like a few examples of failed and successful campaigns I've run.

Deadly Cornbread
02-02-2012, 06:50
Would it be better if I took out the part about the single wound and glancing hit? Or do I just need to scrap this one entirely? And what kind of reasoning can I give for the BA and GK players to be attacking each other?

I vote scrap.

As for the space marine hate crimes? Maybe each chapter have conflicting beliefs on how to handle cleansing the planet, or they're is an artifact of great importance to broth chapters, there's plenty of possibilities.

Carlosophy
02-02-2012, 11:21
For 3 players what you really want is a series of Linked scenarios with certain victory conditions allowing advantages later on. You could write a 'blank' narrative (Army X invades Planet Y) or tie it to the armies themselves (BA on hunt for Nid Gene that could stop the Black Rage, GK show up to spoil the party) Banning Named characters with > 3w and forcing players to invent their own Captain/Master/Tyrant is a good way to enhance this as from game-to-game they build their own personalities.

The BM book is a good source of missions if you get stuck and messing with the FoC to weight certain scenarios in favour of one side is highly entertaining.

Monk813
03-02-2012, 04:48
Ok, so I've looked over it a little and I think I'll reduce the amount of times a specific territory can be fortified (maybe 2 or 3?) to prevent turtling (Thanks Deadly Cornbread) and scrap the Supply Routes as suggested. After looking at it again, I realized that it doesn't even mesh well with the others. The rest all have out of game benefits, this is the only one that doesn't.

And thanks Carlosophy for your idea about why the GK and BA will be fighting on two different fronts. That's actually just what I was looking for and hope you don't mind if I use it.

I also forgot to mention two things. One: I'll have my IG (representing either a Genestealer Cult or the remnants of a PDF depending on who I'm playing) there as an NPC army to fight the odd man out so no one's left twiddling their thumbs.

Two: (and I think this will help make one of the Intelligence cards make sense) during an objectives game (pretty much not annhiliation) I plan on putting down about eight objectives. Three for each player and then two bonus. I will then make a "map" of the battle field and mark which objectives their army is attempting to secure. The players will get 3 points for their own objectives, 2 for their opponent's and 1 for the bonus. This actually really makes me sad no one decided to play Orks. I was really looking forward to giving a player an objectives map drawn in crayon...

Carlosophy
03-02-2012, 12:09
No trouble.

GW had a campaign plotline about Hermiatus, a Magos Biologis who had a potential cure for the Genestealer virus and got infected himself.

Perhaps you could fold your Genestealer cult in by saying Hermiatus has been using the adaptable nature of Tyranid DNA to try to cure the Black Rage. A lab accident means he and his staff became infected and topple the world's govenor. This gives you 3 plot strands:

1. The Blood Angels answer a call for help but have a hidden agenda of covering up the failed experiments. They want to catalog his research but also avoid Inquisitorial scrutiny.

2. The Tyranids detect the Genestealer cult and want to assimilate the experimental DNA, effectively giving their bio-constructs the Black Rage! Give the GK's a challenge by letting them fight Genestealers with FC and FnP!

3. The Grey Knights are here to discover the truth and stop the Tyranids getting that DNA. This brings them into direct conflict with the Blood Angels.

Monk813
06-02-2012, 06:25
Carlosophy, you are a genius. Consider this used. And if you're ever in the area, I'll buy you a pint :D

Monk813
10-02-2012, 21:36
Back again. Between work, wife and obligations (I suppose otherwise known as life) it's taken me longer than I wanted to get this finished up. I also have been told by the GK player that he is intending on running an Inquisition force with minimal, if any, Grey Knight involvement. I say kudos to him for limiting the amount of power armor on the battlefield and have decided that as long as he doesn't have any GK in his army list, then he can take henchmen as Troops with a generic Inquisitor as his HQ. Instead of always having to use Coteaz. That way he won't have to be forced to take such a point sink in smaller games. Anywho, I've revamped my rules a bit and am eager to hear your comments and criticisms. I'm also a little on the fence about Gather Intel. Part of me wants to make the Intel bonuses rewards for capturing objectives/killing enemy commanders/etc. in battles. Thoughts?

All turns occur at the same time. All players will simultaneously write down what their action is and give it to the GM. After 20 turns, the campaign ends and the victor will be the player with the most points at the end of the game.

Actions
-Expand
-Attack
-Fortify
-Gather Intel


EXPAND – You may expand your territory into any adjacent unoccupied territory. This is to represent that when you have an area under your control, you have control of it's roadways and airways and can rapidly redeploy to any emergent battle front.

If two or more players move to the same territory in the same turn, a battle will be fought with Mission and Deployment rolled for randomly and points value agreed upon by the players. If the battle is a draw the players can either agree to both withdraw from the territory (to rearm and regroup) or to both remain locked in contestation of the territory, escalating the point value for the battle in the next turn (calling in reinforcements).

ATTACK – You may attempt to expand into an adjacent enemy occupied territory. The points value will be determined by the GM based on the territory and Fortification level. The attacker may either roll for deployment or determine it himself (indicating the direction from which he chooses to launch his assault). The defender may either roll for mission or determine it himself (indicating the parameters he has chosen to measure success or failure).

The attacker has first turn but the defender may steal the initiative. If the defender wins, the attacker is pushed back and must withdraw. If the attacker wins, the defender is pushed back and must withdraw. The attacker then occupies the territory. In the event of a draw, the defender remains in control of the territory and the attacker may choose to either withdraw or continue the siege, escalating the battle.

During objective capturing missions, each player will be given a map of the battlefield to show them which objectives are their primary objectives. The players will receive 3 points for their own objectives that they capture, 2 points for secondary objectives and 1 point for enemy objectives. Note, these points are for determining the winner of the battle and do not add to your overall score (though their may other bonuses depending on the objectives captured).

Certain territories will have predetermined points value, mission, and deployment. These will be detailed later. Certain territories will have an NPC army in control that must be beaten to gain that territory. You will be notified of an NPC battle when you attempt to annex these territories.

FORTIFY - Instead of Attacking or spreading your territory, you may choose to focus your efforts on strengthening your hold on the territories you already control. Each territory may only be fortified once unless otherwise noted. Any time a fortified territory is attacked, the owning player is granted certain defensive bonuses from the appropriate list.

GATHER INTELLIGENCE - It is a fool who rushes ahead blindly without knowing what lies ahead. You may focus your efforts on learning what you can about your opponents. If this option is chosen, you may draw from the Intelligence deck and use the bonus provided whenever you like.


FORTIFICATIONS
INQUISITION/BLOOD ANGELS -
-Bunkers
-Gun Emplacements
-Barriers/Tank Traps/Razor Wire

TYRANIDS -
-Spore Chimneys
-Brood Nests
-Capillary Towers



INTELLIGENCE -
-Army Composition – You may look at your opponent's army list before creating your own.
-Troop Movements – You may choose your action after determining your opponent's actions.
-Enemy Objectives – You may see your opponent's objectives map.
-Sabotage – You may reduce the level of Fortification an adjacent enemy territory has by 1.
-Counter Intelligence – You may cancel the effects of 1 other INTELLIGENCE Card.
-Propaganda Campaign – A player of your choice may not Attack this turn.

To ensure your victory, you must complete certain tasks. Here are how many points you gain for each task.

Battles:
Win – 3 pts
Draw – 2 pts
Lose – 1 pt

Territories:
Regular – 1 pt
Special – 2 pts
Note: The points listed above are the points earned for territory under your control at the end of the campaign

Objectives:
Primary – 10 pts
Secondary – 7 pts
Tertiary – 5 pts

D.B.
10-02-2012, 23:25
One thing I don't see - what if someone can't play a game? Your campaign has 20 turns, which with three players i guess is a max of 60 games. I bet at least one or two will not be played, due to the whole 'having a life' thing, and it would be good to have a plan laid out so everyone knows what will happen if this occurs.

Secondly, I think Deadly Cornbread has some very, very worthwhile advice above about keeping things as simple as possible. As simple as possible. There's three good reasons I can think of for this.

Reason 1 - Chances are your players are more interested in playing games of 40K, and not playing your campaign rules. Keeping the campaign system rules-lite helps with this.
Reason 2 - If you do a short, simple campaign to begin with, it's easier then to see what did or did not work and add in the extra details for the next campaign. Whereas if you start with something complex and it ends up being a fiasco, it's harder to convince players to give you another chance later.
Reason 3 - This campaign will almost certainly take longer to run than you expect. You've even said that just sorting out the rules has been slower than you thought. It's much better for something to be short and simple and end early, leaving everyone wanting more, than slow and bogged down. It's lower risk.

Enough of my trying to sound smart. You get the idea.


On balance I do like your rules though.

I think the intelligence cards in particular are really, really nice - straight forward and characterful, they remind me of 2nd edition strategy cards. Would propaganda really work though? Anyway, having in-game effects that change the campaign rules (like capturing commanders) I've done in the long distant past, and I thought they worked pretty well - but again, keep it simple.

The fortification rules feel a little fussy, as do all the different points values for various activities.

I worry a bit about having a battle which ends with a draw result in 'escalate and play later' option, as this means some payers could end up having to play more games than expected some turns. Which may not be a big problem for your gaming group, but if any of them are already stretched for time it could be a burden.

On balance though, i think this is a good basis. Personally I'd try to trim out more parts of it still, but if as a player you came to me with this campaign rule set, i think i'd look forward to giving it a go.

lantzkev
25-02-2012, 08:02
grab the second edition box set and use the strategy cards in it =p

Baaltor
25-02-2012, 23:55
No trouble.

GW had a campaign plotline about Hermiatus, a Magos Biologis who had a potential cure for the Genestealer virus and got infected himself.

Perhaps you could fold your Genestealer cult in by saying Hermiatus has been using the adaptable nature of Tyranid DNA to try to cure the Black Rage. A lab accident means he and his staff became infected and topple the world's govenor. This gives you 3 plot strands:

1. The Blood Angels answer a call for help but have a hidden agenda of covering up the failed experiments. They want to catalog his research but also avoid Inquisitorial scrutiny.

2. The Tyranids detect the Genestealer cult and want to assimilate the experimental DNA, effectively giving their bio-constructs the Black Rage! Give the GK's a challenge by letting them fight Genestealers with FC and FnP!

3. The Grey Knights are here to discover the truth and stop the Tyranids getting that DNA. This brings them into direct conflict with the Blood Angels.

Now that's a quality post!