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View Full Version : The State of Warhammer 40,000 - Army Selection for a Returning Old Hand



Mr. Shine
04-02-2012, 03:21
Hi everyone,

This is the first time I've stepped foot in the Warhammer 40,000 section for some time, and having just finally bought Space Marine (I did have the demo at least!) on Steam with the weekend special - and loving it to pieces - I'm considering launching back into Warhammer 40,000 alongside my Fantasy army for a bit of variety. The problem of course is that I enjoy many of the models enough not to be drawn exclusively to one army, so I'm interested in the state of the armies out there.

So how do each of the armies seem to fare with their current rules? I know to expect new releases within the next six months as 6th Edition drops, but that seems only to rule out building a Chaos or Dark Angels army for the moment. What about the rest?

Project2501
04-02-2012, 03:41
Hi everyone,

This is the first time I've stepped foot in the Warhammer 40,000 section for some time, and having just finally bought Space Marine (I did have the demo at least!) on Steam with the weekend special - and loving it to pieces - I'm considering launching back into Warhammer 40,000 alongside my Fantasy army for a bit of variety. The problem of course is that I enjoy many of the models enough not to be drawn exclusively to one army, so I'm interested in the state of the armies out there.

So how do each of the armies seem to fare with their current rules? I know to expect new releases within the next six months as 6th Edition drops, but that seems only to rule out building a Chaos or Dark Angels army for the moment. What about the rest?
According to internet hyperbole:

Teir 1:
BA SW GK IG

Tier 2:
DE NECRONS SM BT ORKS DA ELDAR

TIER 3:
TYRANIDS CSM TAU DAEMONS


Honestly though, for the most part, your local meta means much more than what the internet hyperbole dictates. Some armies may have some hard to counter foes naturally, but the people you play against can and does make up for this in more ways than one.


Just pick whichever one you like, and start small in case you change your mind or get pokemon syndrom :).

Mr. Shine
05-02-2012, 05:49
Thanks for that - now I'm just stuck deciding between a Blood Angels Descent of Angels-themed force or a Terminator-heavy Grey Knights list!

Project2501
05-02-2012, 06:36
Thanks for that - now I'm just stuck deciding between a Blood Angels Descent of Angels-themed force or a Terminator-heavy Grey Knights list!

In that case I would suggest going with the BA codex and making your own chapter.

Reason being is that the BA's gear (minus DC including DC dread, some special characters, baal preds, and furioso/libby dreads) can translate to the other sm codexeses, thus allowing you to further explore playstyles/sm armies. The GK's gear is a bit too specialized/different to easily translate into the other sm codexeses.

druchii
05-02-2012, 06:38
Thanks for that - now I'm just stuck deciding between a Blood Angels Descent of Angels-themed force or a Terminator-heavy Grey Knights list!

Grey Knights will NOT earn you many friends. Considered by some to be the top codex in game at the moment (and many others to be #2!) they're one of those armies that you'll deliberately have to censor your army choices to make a fun and balanced list.

BA Descent of Angels (or DoA) is a pretty competitive army without being stupidly easy/Over Powered, if not a bit limited to assault marines/sanguinary guard. As it stands, BA assault marines backed up with sanguinary priests and some shooty units makes for a pretty fun and competitive army.

If you're looking for another "good" terminator army, look at Deathwing, or a Wolfguard army lead by Logan Grimnar. There are also rumors that Black Templars will feature a "blackwing" army with terminators all around.

d

RandomThoughts
05-02-2012, 14:54
I'd also recommend the Blood Angels DoA army. Grey Knights leave a lot of bad taste in a lot of people's mouths in their current state, while Blood Angels are actually quite nice to play against. Regarding those Black Templar Rumors, recent discussions on the rumors board have turned towards a potential missunderstanding, where everything said for Black Templars might actually refer to the upcoming Dark Angels instead. Could be right, could be wrong, just don't take either rumor for a fact.

Regards
RT

ctuttle
05-02-2012, 15:27
Go for something more unique and original than GK. everyone and their mother is playing them right now.

Scaryscarymushroom
05-02-2012, 17:43
According to internet hyperbole:

Teir 1:
BA SW GK IG

Tier 2:
DE NECRONS SM BT ORKS DA ELDAR

TIER 3:
TYRANIDS CSM TAU DAEMONS


Honestly though, for the most part, your local meta means much more than what the internet hyperbole dictates. Some armies may have some hard to counter foes naturally, but the people you play against can and does make up for this in more ways than one.


Just pick whichever one you like, and start small in case you change your mind or get pokemon syndrom :).

I can't tell if you meant to leave out sisters of battle since they only have a white dwarf list.

Eldartank
05-02-2012, 19:34
My favorite is still the Tyranids, despite the fact that they seem to be about the least competitive army rules-wise nowadays. I just love the models and the story behind them. And my close second favorite is Space Marines, for similar "cool model" reasons.

Droma
05-02-2012, 22:00
I'll toss in my vote for the BA DoA army. Like someone else said paint them in your own custom colors and it'll give you a lot more room to try out other marine books in the future.

theJ
06-02-2012, 13:51
One more vote for BAs. The sons of Sanguinius may be a tad strong, but at least they're fair. When facing Grey Knights, even if you manage to stay non-OP, you'll still have a load of unfair, rulebreaking and excessive rules, that cause too much anger to make for fun games.

Bunnahabhain
06-02-2012, 15:00
Another voice for Blood Angels. Paint them as a successor chapter, and you have loads of flexibility as to which codex you use.

Grey knights are a soul-less, overpowered, fluff destroying abomination that almost seem designed to annoy players of other armies. You can build sensible armies using them, but only by ignoring half the codex, and intentionally not making it too powerful. Even then, you'll often be forced into choices that you or other people don't want- you want to have a few squads of henchmen? Right, you MUST take this special character. You wanted to personalise your inquisitor? Tough!

Charistoph
06-02-2012, 16:11
Go for something more unique and original than GK. everyone and their mother is playing them right now.

The last Mercenary Market at my LGS (a way to buy/sell old models in bulk), saw about 1 GK force for almost every other army available. Apparently, many are scared that those leaked 6th rules were going to be official later this year, and would totally screw them over.

Talk about putting your grots before your Rhino.

Chumbalaya
06-02-2012, 16:58
Please ignore the crybabies, normal people won't get their panties in a wad over GKs.

Play whichever army you like, be that based on playstyle, models, fluff or whatever.

Scaryscarymushroom
06-02-2012, 17:28
So how do each of the armies seem to fare with their current rules? I know to expect new releases within the next six months as 6th Edition drops, but that seems only to rule out building a Chaos or Dark Angels army for the moment. What about the rest?

Honestly, the rules will change and the standings will shift once more. If you make competition a priority, you'll sink all kinds of time and money into an army list and then when 6th edition drops, it's a coin-toss whether or not you'll have a competitive army. All they need to do is eliminate one core mechanic and then the balance could do a 180 degree flip. Tau and Daemons could end up as top-tier competitors for all anyone knows. Not only that, but as time goes on, other armies will be redesigned and they'll take the top-tier spots.

Since the rules are ever-changing, it's much better to design your list based on models that you like, IMO. If you treat a model as nothing more/less than a gaming token then it doesn't much matter what army you have... just that the rules are as good as possible. But with that mentality you start wandering into dangerous WAAC territory.

In short,
Get whatever models you like the most for their look; not their rules. If you're only interested in winning, you'll be sorely disappointed with your collection in a couple years.

Bob5000
06-02-2012, 17:34
Please ignore the crybabies, normal people won't get their panties in a wad over GKs.

Play whichever army you like, be that based on playstyle, models, fluff or whatever.

Absolutely

I posted in another thread that funny how I never got offers from opponents to handicap or down-cheese their armies when DH GK's were recognised as weak . Having said that , I havent played in a GW for years now , and I have had no complaints from my gaming club when I play GKs' .

I personally find vanilla-ish SM's kinda boring - all to his own I guess , yet I play GK's - who are now a Chapter of Space Marines ! I find them sufficiently different to be interesting .

Gearhead
06-02-2012, 17:40
Woah Woah Woah guys, calm down about the Grey Knights and read the whole sentence. He wants Grey Knight Terminators. Not Paladins, not Purifier Spam, not lots and lots of Razorbacks, Terminators. I know a guy who has an army just like that (27 terminators, a psyfleman, and a Stormraven at 2000), it's hardly game breaking. Is it difficult to fight in close combat? Yes, if you let 25 terminators get into your line. I've beaten him several times with my vanilla marines (pedro), not really the most broken codex. If he wants to do Terminators, don't jump down his throat about how broken Knights are. It's just terminators, calm down.

Either way, it seems you like Deep Striking; Get a good scatter die that will love you, and treat it well.

Vepr
06-02-2012, 21:09
I would say play what you want. You never know what things are going to be like in a year. That being said I would choose BA just because I find them more interesting.

Mr. Shine
06-02-2012, 21:24
It looks like I'm leaning more towards Grey Knights at the moment, mostly because of the relative inexpense of putting together an army, combined with the gorgeous miniatures. I love the Blood Angels Death Company models also, but I feel like making an entire army of them would be a bit overwhelming, and I'd be annoyed with all the sculpted Death Company crossesa and having to fill them, plus I'm actually not very fond of the Sanguinary Guard models.

Rest assured though I'll be aiming for a balanced force without Crowe or any Purifiers - I find the Power Armoured Grey Knight models a bit awkward-looking despite their lovely detail. I might consider a unit or two of Interceptors, but I'd like to stick mostly to Terminators and perhaps a Redeemer or two to carry them around - not strictly "optimised" so hopefully enough to make the list balanced but not overpowered - and there's also a rules change looming anyway, which may knock them down a tier ;)

druchii
07-02-2012, 00:11
The last Mercenary Market at my LGS (a way to buy/sell old models in bulk), saw about 1 GK force for almost every other army available. Apparently, many are scared that those leaked 6th rules were going to be official later this year, and would totally screw them over.

Talk about putting your grots before your Rhino.

Not to runt his threat off the rails, but was this at Empire Games? I was visiting Phoenix/Gilbert/Mesa/the other random cities mashed together there and stopped by that store, and I must say it is amazingly awesome!

On another note: Terminators in some land raiders will make a lot of people happy when you plop them on the table, good for you.

d

Scribe of Khorne
07-02-2012, 03:08
Please ignore the crybabies, normal people won't get their panties in a wad over GKs.

Play whichever army you like, be that based on playstyle, models, fluff or whatever.

Pretty much this.

Charistoph
07-02-2012, 03:45
Not to runt his threat off the rails, but was this at Empire Games? I was visiting Phoenix/Gilbert/Mesa/the other random cities mashed together there and stopped by that store, and I must say it is amazingly awesome!

Indeed, Empire Games is my LGS. A great store filled with great people. The owner and his #1 are both ex-military and have experience with working the hobby scene. If you are a jerk, they harass you till you choose to leave. Besides the once a quarter Mercenary Market, they run monthly 40K, Fantasy, and WarMaHordes tournaments, weekly Magic tournaments, and are starting up Malifaux tournaments. Flames of War and unusual game styles also make regular appearances every month. They also will help support you building (and painting) your army your way. I sound like a dang ******* commercial now.

We do see all types of armies there, though, including a few Grey Knights. The players get a little mild joking about it, at most, but it's amazing what variety I see when I'm able to go.

druchii
07-02-2012, 05:00
Indeed, Empire Games is my LGS. A great store filled with great people. The owner and his #1 are both ex-military and have experience with working the hobby scene. If you are a jerk, they harass you till you choose to leave. Besides the once a quarter Mercenary Market, they run monthly 40K, Fantasy, and WarMaHordes tournaments, weekly Magic tournaments, and are starting up Malifaux tournaments. Flames of War and unusual game styles also make regular appearances every month. They also will help support you building (and painting) your army your way. I sound like a dang ******* commercial now.

We do see all types of armies there, though, including a few Grey Knights. The players get a little mild joking about it, at most, but it's amazing what variety I see when I'm able to go.

I was kicking myself when I didn't bring my demon army with me while I was down there. Would have loved to play on some of those amazing tables with that sexy terrain.

d

madprophet
07-02-2012, 05:03
Since the rules are ever-changing, it's much better to design your list based on models that you like, IMO. If you treat a model as nothing more/less than a gaming token then it doesn't much matter what army you have... just that the rules are as good as possible. But with that mentality you start wandering into dangerous WAAC territory.

In short,
Get whatever models you like the most for their look; not their rules. If you're only interested in winning, you'll be sorely disappointed with your collection in a couple years.
Amen!!:angel:

I have been building a Guard force for over 20 years, it now stands at over 6000 points of painted Guard goodness. My army is based on the old Valhallan figures and has a very Red Army look to it (which makes the guys at the FLGS laugh because of my decidedly anti-communist views, but I digress). While the IG are currently very competitive, for many years they were sort of a punching bag army. But, I like the figures, I like painting them, I like doing IG themed conversions, I like the IG fluff and the BL stories about the guard - especially the Caiphas Cain stories (just ordered "Last Ditch" on Amazon and it's scheduled to arrive Saturday :D)

I have never regretted buying the IG since I just plain like the army.

I have smaller Ork (2000 points), Tyranid (2500 points), Grey Knights (1500 points), Chaos Marine (2000 points) and Tau (unbuilt but probably around 2000-3000 points) armies. My loyalist Marines languished at 1500 points but since they were adopted by my son they have grown to 2000 points.

I doubt any of them will grow much beyond their current levels. They just don't capture my imagination. Despite the fact that I need more Guardsmen like I need an IRS audit, I am building a valhallan platoon - all female figures - based on the Russian Conversion Kit from Laughing Monk Miniatures of Australia (14 female figures) and great coat legs from the Wargames Factory Great Coat SciFi line. I also bough a bunch of HeroClix female figures for 50 cents a pop at the FLGS to take their heads and fit them to converted Great Coat torsos (added bustlines) to round out the platoon. This latest addition to the Lyubov 18th along with a squadron of Salamanders converted from toy tanks snagged at the local Dollar Store brings my force up to 3 complete companies reinforced by a Stormtrooper platoon, battalion artillery, battalion aid station, battalion command platoon, motor pool, air wing, and band...

I play maybe 4-6 games a year if I am lucky, for me the hobby is about modeling, converting and painting models. Don't get caught up on the rules - they tend to change real fast. The models you build have more staying power.