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Zirkonicky
05-02-2012, 20:07
Hey guys,

we ran into this during our last warhammer battle. I tried to find the answer in the rulebook but since I couldn't find it I thought best ask it here.

Can you 'legally' stack magic? Suppose I'd cast a spell (don't have the book here, so 'm not sure which one it was, I believe Lore of Shadow spell 2) that causes -d3 strenght and remains in play (untill dispelled). Is it possible to cast the same spell on the same target again next turn, thereby stacking the -d3 strenght effects (and possibly reducing his strength by 6 in two turns?)

I thought I could, cause the rulebook doesn't say you can't ;-)
But, since there was no answer, we decided not to play the game like this untill we got it clear (shame for me though)

So please, enlighten me!

vinush
05-02-2012, 20:13
If it's the Signature spell, and more than one wizard has the spell, then I would say yes you can stack it. If it's one wizard then the spell remains in play until ended either by you or your opponent, and that wizard cannot cast it again until it has ended.

Also worth noting, if it's not the signature spell then only one wizard can have it in your army.

THE \/ince

GotrekFan
05-02-2012, 20:18
Just to clarify for the sake of completeness, you can duplicate spells through bound items and Loremaster.
But back on topic, I see no reason why hexes/ buffs can't stack provided casting rules are followed.

Mr. Shine
05-02-2012, 20:26
In this case, probably not as above.

In general, I'm unsure. There is precedent for hexes stacking with the Lore of Metal's Plague of Rust, but at the same time, if this is explicitly stated for this spell only, it could be argued as unique as much as it could be argued as precedent.

GotrekFan
05-02-2012, 21:25
I would say that that due to the relative difficulty involved in making these types of hex stack it would be allowed.
Again, that's my interpretation so knock yourself out.

Harwammer
05-02-2012, 21:47
Reading the rules I can see that bonuses and penalties from Hex, Augment and other spells are cumulative, but normally cannot take any characteristic above 10 or below 1. This does open up the question whether Flame Cage or Net of Amyntok (being hexes) can do damage to anything other than multi-wound models (i.e. wound characteristic being taken below 1)!

Mr. Shine
05-02-2012, 23:30
Reading the rules I can see that bonuses and penalties from Hex, Augment and other spells are cumulative, but normally cannot take any characteristic above 10 or below 1.

Do you have a reference for that? I'm aware that characteristics cannot ordinarily go below or above 0 and 10 repsectively, but apart from Plague of Rust (which effectively remains in play for the game but is not a Remains in Play spell, which is the source of its cumulative ability) I can't see any reference to effects being cumulative.

It certainly makes sense that if you manage to have two Wizards with the same spell that any modifiers of their Hex/Augment spells should stack... but the game mechanics seem to make this difficult beyond say Signature/Bound Spells and Loremaster.

Harwammer
05-02-2012, 23:48
It's an itallicised note below the descriptions of what hex/augments do. Stupidly I forgot to take a page number but it's a direct quote (forgiving any transcription errors).

Many beastman players would disagree that the game mechanics make this difficult; herdstone spam for the win?

Mr. Shine
06-02-2012, 00:16
It's an itallicised note below the descriptions of what hex/augments do. Stupidly I forgot to take a page number but it's a direct quote (forgiving any transcription errors).

Aha, I even read both Augment and Hex paragraphs but completely neglected to notice that note :p

Page 31 of the mini-BRB, within "Choosing a Target"


Many beastman players would disagree that the game mechanics make this difficult; herdstone spam for the win?

I'm not familiar with Beastmen, but I was more talking about the general inability to take the same spell multiple times throughout an army. No doubt there are many instances of this being possible in various forms, though!

Tae
06-02-2012, 00:20
It's an itallicised note below the descriptions of what hex/augments do. Stupidly I forgot to take a page number but it's a direct quote (forgiving any transcription errors).

Many beastman players would disagree that the game mechanics make this difficult; herdstone spam for the win?

Even were this correct (which I'm not saying it is or it isn't, as I don't have my BRB to hand) what then happens with non-BRB spells?

i.e. what if you cast The Withering (Shadow magic) on someone to reduce their Toughness by d3 (to a minimum to 1, as per spell description) and then cast Wither (Skaven Plague magic) to reduce their toughness by 1 and if it now reaches 0 they are removed.

On the face of it I can see no reason why they wouldn't stack. But if this is the case why would the BRB ones not (excluding any with minimum stated values - as The Withering itself actually has)? Or would it just be 'because' (i.e. inconsistency between 7th and 8th)

Necromancy Black
06-02-2012, 10:17
Page 31 of the BRB, bonuses and penalties from hex, augment and other spells are cumulative, but can't reduce stats to above 10 or below 1 (normally).

So for most spells this is simple enough. I regular take 3 skink priests each with the signature spell from law of heavens and stack the -1 to hit and leadership on a single unit. It's great for Salamander induced panic tests or making a steadfast unit still take a negative to their leadership for the break test.

What has to be asked then is that are spells that do damage a negative, and honestly I'm going with no as it's not written either way as RAW and RAI seems to be they stack only for numerical changes (+/- to hit or wound, or +/- to stats, etc)

Reiko321
07-02-2012, 08:53
So the lore of beasts sig spell stacks, per the BRB wording. Multiple castings for +2/+3/etc. Sick.

Mr. Shine
07-02-2012, 09:22
So the lore of beasts sig spell stacks, per the BRB wording. Multiple castings for +2/+3/etc. Sick.

If you have multiple Wizards with the Lore of Beasts, yup!

sulla
07-02-2012, 22:52
So the lore of beasts sig spell stacks, per the BRB wording. Multiple castings for +2/+3/etc. Sick.The only things that won't stack are 'special rules' like armour piercing, or scaly skin, as per the special rules FAQ in the BRB FAQ.

Alarum
07-02-2012, 23:57
Page 36 under Remains in play spells, first paragraph answers all you questions. In short you cant stack it because you cant cast the same remains in play spell until it has been dispelled or cancelled by you wizard.

The way I am reading it means you cant even cast it on a different unit next turn. Any thoughts?

Alarum
07-02-2012, 23:58
Double post sorry.

Necromancy Black
08-02-2012, 07:41
Oh yeah, Remain in Play spells tend to be a little different. Obvious;y the same wizard can't stack them but if you have multiple wizards with the spell due to Loremaster or something else there's nothing stopping you casting the same remain spell twice on the same unit.

Also, you can stop a remain in play spell at any time. So you can just stop it the moment before you roll the dice, and it's probably best to assume that any recasting of the same RIP by the same wizard automatically means they chose to end the spell prior to the dice roll.