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SlaaneshSlave
06-02-2012, 03:01
Here's what came up in our game today. Can a Warp Lightning Cannon target behind a unit of Slaves (out of combat) with the hope that the bounce will go over the Slaves? Specifically...

Unit of Wraiths 3" is in front of Slaves. Cannon was behind the Slaves. Skaven player wanted to guess 10" from the Wraiths which was just outside of the Slaves. This means the Slaves would not be hit with a misfire, or a 10, on the first bounce roll.

But the target was the Wraiths, not the Slaves.

The other option was to guess on the other side of the Slaves, but then the Wraiths would only be hit on a bounce roll of 2. So, guessing behind the Slaves makes it more likely the Wraiths are hit.

In short, if the guess makes it more likely to kill your intended victim, but some friendly might die; is that legal? How hard to you have to try to ensure your friendlies can't die, no matter what die outcome?

MOMUS
06-02-2012, 05:02
Here's what came up in our game today. Can a Warp Lightning Cannon target behind a unit of Slaves (out of combat) with the hope that the bounce will go over the Slaves? Specifically...

Unit of Wraiths 3" is in front of Slaves. Cannon was behind the Slaves. Skaven player wanted to guess 10" from the Wraiths which was just outside of the Slaves. This means the Slaves would not be hit with a misfire, or a 10, on the first bounce roll.

But the target was the Wraiths, not the Slaves.

The other option was to guess on the other side of the Slaves, but then the Wraiths would only be hit on a bounce roll of 2. So, guessing behind the Slaves makes it more likely the Wraiths are hit.

In short, if the guess makes it more likely to kill your intended victim, but some friendly might die; is that legal? How hard to you have to try to ensure your friendlies can't die, no matter what die outcome?


I have a similar problem with salamanders, its a flame template weapon that adds the art' die to its range, so the template could be 2" or up to 10" in front of the sallie firing. I could accidentally fire into combat or accidentally fry some of my own troop in an effort to get at an enemy target.
But i have always played it im not allowed to fire it in a way so as it might hit a friendly target or go into a combat, however unlikely.

Blkc57
06-02-2012, 05:27
And now we revive the classic argument of "Can you fire template weapons into slaves?". Some will argue that the slave special rule "Expendable" allows you to fire anything including template weapons into them without care, other will argue that while you can shoot BS into them the template rules still prohibit you from shooting a cannon into them. It all comes down to how you want to interrupt the Skaven rules. Normal template rules state that if at any point it is possible to hit a friendly or a unit in combat you may not fire ( that includes the possibility of a bounce for cannons). Thus a cannon of say the Empire may not fire at a target if any of its rolls on its firing and bounce will potentially strike one of those prohibited units mentioned in the rule book. Skaven slaves can be shot at even while in combat.

Edit: To the above posters about Salamanders....at this time it doesn't look like they can simply because while Warpfire throwers were FAQ'd to allow them to "scatter" into combat, Salamanders were not. Thus they still must obey the template rules that they can't attempt to hit a target that is a friendly or engaged.

teafloy_the_damned
06-02-2012, 12:33
In short, if the guess makes it more likely to kill your intended victim, but some friendly might die; is that legal? How hard to you have to try to ensure your friendlies can't die, no matter what die outcome?

Me and a friend of mine came into this situation and (stupidly in my opinion) you can.

The best we could find was you can't deliberatly target friendly or units in close combat. SO you cant put the cannonball guess on top of either of these. But as far as the overshoot and bounce go, sure you can plough though as many of your own troops as you want. Lost my chaos dragon to that little trick, though he did loose an ogre

So is it legal, yes, is it very sporting and in the spirit of the game.....no

Ignore that, i was wrong

hamsterwheel
06-02-2012, 14:14
Unfortunately I don't have the book in front of me but I seem to recall that the rule that allows slaves to be shot gives you permission to shoot slaves when they're engaged in combat, not during any point in the game. I don't believe this shot can be done unless the slaves are engaged in combat.

hamsterwheel
06-02-2012, 14:18
Me and a friend of mine came into this situation and (stupidly in my opinion) you can.

The best we could find was you can't deliberatly target friendly or units in close combat. SO you cant put the cannonball guess on top of either of these. But as far as the overshoot and bounce go, sure you can plough though as many of your own troops as you want. Lost my chaos dragon to that little trick, though he did loose an ogre

So is it legal, yes, is it very sporting and in the spirit of the game.....no

Page 112 BRB
"Note that you are not allowed to make a cannon shot in such a way that it has a chance of hitting a friendly unit or enemy unit that is engaged in close combat"

teafloy_the_damned
07-02-2012, 05:27
Page 112 BRB
"Note that you are not allowed to make a cannon shot in such a way that it has a chance of hitting a friendly unit or enemy unit that is engaged in close combat"

HA!, That pesky rulebook never ceaces to amaze me, i withdraw my statement and i'm off to shove my chaos dragon up my friends...well, ahhem