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Johnnyfrej
07-02-2012, 00:36
So they have been released for a few months now. What is everyone's opinion of them? Are they anything special or just one of Matt Ward's write-offs? Can they bring the fight to the poorly-written new books like Space Wolves and Gray Knights?

Kalandros
07-02-2012, 00:43
The fluff is pretty much an abridged version of itself - at many parts of the very ordinary story, you await details on how x event happened but instead you get the conclusion. Its like a very anticlimactic story to itself.

Anyway, the army is definitely strong and has many different potential competitive builds, it is like everyone else, rather weak to some of the more recent books like Space Wolves (I2 everywhere - Jaws takes a major bite out of Necrons) or Grey Knights (no explanation needed).

A few things seem to be missing - Psyker defense is almost non-existent which is rather odd for such an advanced race that has fought against Eldars, Chaos and even the Old Ones who unleashed the Warp on them. So only the Spyders get a very limited Psyker null effect.

Oh well, can't have everything!

Johnnyfrej
07-02-2012, 01:36
Sad, it seems more and more 40k is less appealing to me.

Azazel
07-02-2012, 01:45
The book is definately written with the next edition of 40k in mind. I think at the moment a lot of the better units aren't availible to purchase, and rules that don't entirely make sense (Deepstriking in your opponents movement phase) will suddenly become a lot better next edition.

For example if the rumoured 6th edition rules turn out to be true, Doom Scythes will be a lot better. They can move 12" and still fire all their weapons, adding to their Evasion and making them harder for enemy units to hit. Secondly the Death Ray hits automatically so will not have such problems itself.

As for the fluff, yes it has changed but my Necron Overlord is still the darkly insane reaper intent on destroying all life in the galaxy he has always been.

Draconis
07-02-2012, 02:17
As for the fluff, I think the new take is better. I was bitter and afraid when I heard the new fluff had changed. I was always in love with the old fluff. But after getting my hands on the codex, I had to change my opinion. It gives the crons a lot more to build upon. Previously, they were a lot like Nids in the fact that they wanted to just simply wipe everything out in the name of the C'tan. Now, they do their own things, some still want to wipe out life, some want to unite the dynasties and enslave the universe. They are no longer bound by the C'tan, which is awesome. So instead of having a two sided coin, they now have a whole bag of options to choose from.

As for army effectiveness, the general consensus seems to say they are a perfectly balanced army. They are not over the top like SW and IG however they can hold their own. Low tier 1, high tier 2 basically. They have a ton of options when it comes to designing your army and the faq only made it better on most parts.

Seismic
07-02-2012, 02:28
I keep thinking to my self; It could've been worst.

Its mediocre at best , it certainly wont draw as much interest as the Dark eldar release did and its nothing compared to the versatility that Ward gives to Marine codices; A lot of unsophisticated mechanism in the book makes it hard to navigate both while making lists and on the battle field ;

joining a Lord or Cryptek to a Warrior squad in an Ark , for example , yields increments incompatible with "5" . Squads are often fluctuate in numbers ;Uncharacteristic , one would think , of Necrons . And the total list is over/under the point range by a couple points ; Why not resolve the issue by making Lord & Cryptek squad upgrades at 15/10 points ? Or give overlords 1-3 points gear option to round out the points ? Similarly the battlefield is littered with "tokens" as if it were some silver bullet to explain/simplify all of Ward needlessly complex rules.

To me it sounds like he (Ward) was out of his element working with (filthy) Xenos , so he picked up a copy of the Dark Eldar codex , copy pasted the literary humour and pain token system and called it a day.

And the less said about the fluff the better; Here's my satire nonetheless :

At the conclusion of the War in heaven , The Silent King and his personal Cryptek ponder the destiny of the Necrons

Silent King : We've shattered the C'tan and defeated the Old ones ; All your base are now belong to us.
-Cryptek : Yes my lord , we now stand victorious ; But at what cost ?
-Silent King : Indeed you are correct my trusted cryptek. Our civilisation was devastated by the war .
-Crypek : What are your orders now your highness ?
-Silent King : We shall rebuild.
-Cryptek : A most wise decision , i will inform the Triarch council right aw-
-Silient King: In 60 million years.
-Cryptek : ...
-Silent King : You seem perplexed cryptek. Something the matter?
-Cryptek : Why not rebuild now my lord ?
-Silent King : Now is not our time silly cryptek. It is the Eldar's.
-Cryptek : Then why not kill the Eldars with the same weapons we used to kill the C'tans?
-Silent King : Because i had a vision of things to come.
-Cryptek : What better way to try and avoid such ev-
-Silent King : In 60 Million years the Eldars will have fallen and we will awaken to take back what is rightfully ours.
-Cryptek : ... Wait you want us to shut-down for 60 million years ?
-Silent King : Yes .
-Cryptek : Pardon my french my king but that just *********** retarded. Shouldn't we stay actively covert instead ?
-Silent King : No. You must all go to sleep , so that i can go untroubled in the darkness of space and contemplate my mistakes.
-Cryptek : ugh ... But even a small operation working on reversing biotransfe-
-Silent King : And then i'll realise that i did yet an other mistake by ordering you to sleep ,by stumbling upon the Tyranid , who will consume all life and put in jeopardy any hope of reverting the effects of Bio-transference.
-Cryptek : You mean that while we sleep other species will take the stage in galactic affairs?
-Silent King : Yes and they will most likely destroy several Tomb worlds in the process ... And malfunctions , natural phenomenons
and all the rest of it will take its told on the control i have over the Nercons.
-Cryptek : Ugh ...
-Silent King : But i will return ; As i have envisioned.


Again ; Seems like someone who worked with Space marine mythos too much and had to incorporate an "Emperor" type figure in the picture for no particular reason. But long story short (as i did spend too much time on this anyway) If i didn't have a bunch of Oldcron models already , i wouldn't bother with the Newcron.


The book is definately written with the next edition of 40k in mind. I think at the moment a lot of the better units aren't availible to purchase, and rules that don't entirely make sense (Deepstriking in your opponents movement phase) will suddenly become a lot better next edition.

See , This is a red flag right there. When people starts justifying that a book is bad because it was written with the next core edition in mind ; You know you're in trouble. I remember people saying the same thing about the Chaos space marine & Dark Angel codices back in the days.

Draconis
07-02-2012, 02:34
Wow, way off on the story. They couldn't fight the eldar. It even says that the war against the old ones, followed by the war against the c'tan drained them of all their resources. They did not have the power to win a war of attrition. So the silent King used the Necrons biggest advantage. Immortality. He knew eventually the Eldar would die out. As all mortal things do. So he sent the race into hibernation and exiled himself beyond the stars. As for the nids, they weren't even in the galaxy when this was all going on.

Seismic
07-02-2012, 03:00
If you're immortal , wouldn't it make more sense to , at the very least , stay actively in the shadows ; Covertly ensuring your own continuation. Why lay dormant for millions of years at the mercy of your enemies , natural & technological disasters when the alternative is much better. I mean its the worst use of immortality ever : Instead of taken 60 million years to do something , you're taking 60 million years to do nothing ...expect die due to outside forces that you could have avoided if awake.

Moreover , resources can be re-gathered , it certainly wouldn't be difficult at a galactic levels , even for weapons that uses : The energies of the living universe (Whatever the hell that's supposed to mean).


As for the nids, they weren't even in the galaxy when this was all going on.

The silent king's vision presumably stretches over 60 million years , since that's the point where he feels the Necron could or should reawaken. Whether or not the Tyranid where in the galaxy back then , it should have been part of his vision of reawakening.

Draconis
07-02-2012, 03:12
Ever watch lord of the rings? What did the ring do when it was lost in the pool. It waited. Not by its choice no, but it waited. Eventually it became a myth, a legend. Something very few people remembered. Same for the Eldar. After 65 million years, most of them forgot the necrons existed. Very few of the other races had ever even heard of them. The same thing happens in natures. There are animals that will let you eat pieces of them just so you think they are dead. Same for the crons. They lost a few worlds sure, but eventually, they stopped losing them, and the eldar figured they finished wiping them out. Over time, they forgot all about them. Deception is a powerful tool when combined with time.

Draconis
07-02-2012, 03:13
He didnt have a vision of reawakening. He was simply waiting for a time when he figured the eldar would die out. 65 million years is a long time. And he was right. He didn't predict slaanesh or the immediate downfall, but he figured over time the race would die out. he did not however, predict the nids, or humans for that matter.

Grimdesign
07-02-2012, 03:17
If you're immortal , wouldn't it make more sense to , at the very least , stay actively in the shadows ; Covertly ensuring your own continuation.

You mean like the Praetorian's?


Why lay dormant for millions of years at the mercy of your enemies , natural & technological disasters when the alternative is much better. Moreover , resources can be re-gathered , it certainly wouldn't be difficult at a galactic levels , even for weapons that uses : The energies of the living universe (Whatever the hell that's supposed to mean).

I think the idea was that they lay low, as to avoid detection. While I am sure they could have just stood still for a few eons, I dont think that would have worked wonders on their already dubious sanity.


The silent king's vision presumably stretches over 60 milli'd years , since that's the point where he feels the Necron could or should reawaken. Whether or not the Tyranid where in the galaxy back then , it should have been part of his vision of reawakening.

I think it was based more along the lines of Orikan's divinations. based more on statistical probabilities and techno-mathematical necro-jargon over prophecy. Much like Orikans divination's, it is susceptible to failure.

Seismic
07-02-2012, 03:36
Ever watch lord of the rings? What did the ring do when it was lost in the pool. It waited. Not by its choice no, but it waited. It waited. Not by its choice no, but it waited. Eventually it became a myth, a legend. Something very few people remembered. Same for the Eldar. After 65 million years, most of them forgot the necrons existed. Very few of the other races had ever even heard of them. The same thing happens in natures.

Not to sound condescending , but a ring isn't a sentient race of space robots.

On the very next page Ward goes into details on how Tomb worlds fell ; He himself seems to point out how incredibly idiotic such a decision would be. Furthermore it doesn't justify the shutdown of the Necrons as a whole. One species isn't one ring ; It has many different parts that can act independently. Keeping a few tomb world or a military fleet active in remote areas or concealed in pocket dimensions is easily justifiable to oversee the safety of the Necrons.

Even if there was a case to be made for hibernation , there is no justification for total catantonia .


You mean like the Praetorian's?

They certainly didn't do a good job from the looks of it.


He didnt have a vision of reawakening. He was simply waiting for a time when he figured the eldar would die out. 65 million years is a long time. And he was right.

So he hedged his entire species survival, his empire , his plan on a guestimation ...

Draconis
07-02-2012, 03:38
And yet the idea of hiding is still there. Because it worked. I'm sure the crons thought it over. They knew they were going to lose some worlds over time. Its going to happen. And like the one guy said, some crons stayed awake to defend the worlds and the nobles. Not to mention all the drones like wraiths, spiders, scarabs and everything else stayed awake.

Zothos
07-02-2012, 03:50
The Tomb Worlds were NOT independent due to the command protocols the Silent King had after the conversion.

They all shut down because he said to. Then he destroyed the command protocols as he departed the galaxy.

Seismic
07-02-2012, 03:58
And like the one guy said, some crons stayed awake to defend the worlds and the nobles. Not to mention all the drones like wraiths, spiders, scarabs and everything else stayed awake.

So what was left sleeping then ; Warriors and Immortals ? Might as well keep everyone going then, no?



The Tomb Worlds were NOT independent due to the command protocols the Silent King had after the conversion.

They all shut down because he said to. Then he destroyed the command protocols as he departed the galaxy.

What justifications were there to break the command protocols he implemented ; He got all emo and guilt tripped on the Bio-furnace-transference or something ?

Draconis
07-02-2012, 04:01
Because he betrayed his whole race and sentenced them to an eternity of being trapped in a machine? The lesser ones dont even control themselves, but are still sentient. That would be horrible. Again, you're not listening. The whole reason was to out last the eldar. If you stay and fight, you'll lose. If you hide and sleep, they forget about you and you win.

Seismic
07-02-2012, 04:17
Except they didn't forget; Wasn't there a Craftworld dedicated to find and eradicate the necrons . And its not just mortal enemies that would threaten your Immortality laying there defenceless ;


Cascade failure of stasis crypts destroyed million , if not billions of Necrons. Some Tomb worlds were destroyed by the retribution of the marauding Eldar, their defence systems overmatched by these ancient enemies. Other Tomb worlds fell victims to the uncaring evolution of the galaxy itself . Tectonically unstable planets crushed Necrons strongholds ,slumbering at their hearts ; Stars went supernova consuming orbiting Tomb worlds in their death throes.

This is part of Ward's own words ,the very next page where the great slumber is introduced. Its actually him pointing out how silly going to sleep for 60 million years is. If the Necrons would have stayed awake they could have said - " Hey Bob , i think this star is going super nova . Maybe we should move out of the system and save a couple billion Necrons; What do you say ?

I know the idea of the "Dead opossum technique" is to outlast your enemy . I'm saying you're outlasting him already, so why bother playing dead . Run , hide , at least don't stay there getting fried by faulty wires and exploding suns.

Grimdesign
07-02-2012, 04:34
Except they didn't forget; Wasn't there a Craftworld dedicated to find and eradicate the necrons . And its not just mortal enemies that would threaten your Immortality laying there defenceless ;

As far as the Eldar, they have indeed fallen, at least to more manageable levels. Only the Eldar who have access to the Black Library know about the existence of the Necrons. Even fewer know the tactics to fight them. As far as laying there defenseless, they had the Canopteks, and the Triarch Praetoriate standing vigil, you also cant underestimate the defense of being invisible and unknown. The best thing you can do when you dont want to be found? hide.


This is part of Ward's own words ,the very next page where the great slumber is introduced. Its actually him pointing out how silly going to sleep for 60 million years is. If the Necrons would have stayed awake they could have said - " Hey Bob , i think this star is going super nova . Maybe we should move out of the system and save a couple billion Necrons; What do you say ?

I am sure parading around the universe in Megaliths and Tomb fleets while the few existing Eldar stand guard is the epitome of stealth.



I know the idea of the "Dead opossum technique" is to outlast your enemy . I'm saying you're outlasting him already, so why bother playing dead . Run , hide , at least don't stay there getting fried by faulty wires and exploding suns. I do believe they are done playing dead at this point, ergo the great awakening of the Necron Dynasty's.


That being said: I would have just used the Celestial Orrarry myself, but then again I am not a xenos so there thought process isn't something I would be unable to understand on a fundamental level.

Seismic
07-02-2012, 04:56
they had the Canopteks, and the Triarch Praetoriate standing vigil,

They certainly weren't doing a good job standing vigil when those billion upon billion necrons died due to "Cascade failure of stasis crypts" & "super novas". Would have been a good idea to have them orchestrate the Necron awakening during the Fall of the Eldars or the Horus Heresy. Kick them while they're down you know.



I am sure parading around the universe in Megaliths and Tomb fleets while the few existing Eldar stand guard is the epitome of stealth.

Incidentally you don't need to be parading anywhere , only getting out of harms way. Moreover the purpose of actively working on covert operations is actually developing technology that would stealth the Megalith ships which aren't a necessity after all if it comes to that . And given the Necrons past achievement of destroying Star gods and there current Multidimensional technology they have ; I'm sure "Stealth" is within reaches of possibilities.

Grimdesign
07-02-2012, 05:06
Incidentally you don't need to be parading anywhere , only getting out of harms way. Moreover the purpose of actively working on covert operations is actually developing technology that would stealth the Megalith ships which aren't a necessity after all if it comes to that . And given the Necrons past achievement of destroying Star gods and there current Multidimensional technology they have I'm sure "Stealth" is within reaches of possibilities.

The Silent king might not have been arrogant, but his predecessors were disturbingly so. Free of the Silent king, they are now able to scheme against each other to display their inherent superiority over each other. So while I am sure stealth tech would be well within their grasp, inherent pride keeps them from debasing themselves with such technology. Too long were they held in stasis, they will not suffer themselves upon such endeavors again. No they will wait until their full might can be unleashed, so that the outcome is without question, there might without doubt.

You can assure yourself that even at full might, they wont use stealth tech, not because they cant, but because its beneath them.

Seismic
07-02-2012, 05:35
The Silent king might not have been arrogant, but his predecessors were disturbingly so. Free of the Silent king, they are now able to scheme against each other to display their inherent superiority over each other.

{SNIP}

You can assure yourself that even at full might, they wont use stealth tech, not because they cant, but because its beneath them.

Don't free them then . And don't put them in stasis. Simple.

And don't go Emo into outer space , and leave like that's going to fix things . Surely the Silent king must have known , if what you say is true , that even if his plan would worked perfectly the past feuds that cause the first Necron civil wars would have re-emerged, the past would repeat it self . And the events similar to the first secession & Iteration war would plagued the Necron once more. Speaking of which ; You don't scape goat those who can fight back ; Picking a fight with the most ancient and powerful race in the universe as a common enemy. Smooth .

But more to the point , I'm not talking about Necron stealth technology now , but the possibility that it could have been used by the Silent king then, instead of stasis. As well as working on reversing Transference.

P.S. I've wasted enough time on this already. I'll let you have the last word ; I don't think either one of us is going to convince the other anyhow.

rocdocta
07-02-2012, 08:29
Ever watch lord of the rings? What did the ring do when it was lost in the pool. It waited. . what else can a ring do tho?! it cant say "stuff this...I am walking outa here!" it has to wait.

Kalandros
07-02-2012, 10:57
what else can a ring do tho?! it cant say "stuff this...I am walking outa here!" it has to wait.

And yet walk away it did!

Korraz
07-02-2012, 15:20
I'm still wondering why the Necrons didn't just crush the Eldar.
No, really, what are the reasons given for it?
Did they really expect to lose untold billions of their numbers in a war against them? Because, that's how many were lost in those 60 million years.
I just can't see how the Eldar were any threat. They weren't an empire. They were just another race of the old ones, on their way up, but probably still pretty primitive. Certainly not numbering god knows how many billions.
Necrons are the masters of atrition. They could have easily crushed them. If for every dead eldar five Necron Warriors would've been lost forever, it would have still been an awesome victory.

As it stands, it's just typical moronic Ward writing that reeks of "I didn't read the old fluff and I didn't think this through."

Zothos
07-02-2012, 15:29
I just can't see how the Eldar were any threat. They weren't an empire. They were just another race of the old ones, on their way up, but probably still pretty primitive. Certainly not numbering god knows how many billions.


Where are you getting the Eldar census numbers from 60 million years ago? How do you know how powerful they were?

Fact is there could have been untold billions of them.

Infidel
07-02-2012, 15:50
Just putting it out there, I think it's very likely that Orikan (in its current incarnation) *is* the Deceiver.

Anyhow, there are a few things I dislike about the new fluff, Dolmen gates is on my #1 hate list after Draigo and Paladins. How does a race capable of waging war on a galactic scale not able to travel FTL?

Other than that, I think many of the Necron's decisions are rather plausible. The fluff never said how exhausted of resources the Necrons were after they banished the C'tans. It may very well be that they've lost the vast majority of their fleet and having a billion billion metal soldiers stranded on a planet without the aid of interplanetary transport is not a particularily effective way to fight. Just look at what happens in modern war the moment you lose air superiority. Clusterbombs makes a horrible mess of infantries and tanks, fighting a galactic-fairing race who can punish you from orbit with impunity is far far worse.

Go into hiding is an understandable decision, but the one thing I never understood - if Necrons are indeed the master of pocket dimensions, why not hide in those? Tesseract Labyrinths seemed stable enough, so instead of hiding beneath the surface of random planets, surely that's a more preferable option.

Scaryscarymushroom
07-02-2012, 17:13
The book is definately written with the next edition of 40k in mind. Isn't that what people said about dark eldar? And Grey Knights? Where's our next edition?

Korraz
07-02-2012, 17:59
Where are you getting the Eldar census numbers from 60 million years ago? How do you know how powerful they were?

Fact is there could have been untold billions of them.

Wouldn't that be a bit noteworthy?

I really don't get why people try to justify simply badly written fluff.

madival
07-02-2012, 18:16
Incidentally you don't need to be parading anywhere , only getting out of harms way. Moreover the purpose of actively working on covert operations is actually developing technology that would stealth the Megalith ships which aren't a necessity after all if it comes to that . And given the Necrons past achievement of destroying Star gods and there current Multidimensional technology they have ; I'm sure "Stealth" is within reaches of possibilities.

Better yet, why not make multidimensional wholes, for either the super nova explosion to release energy into, or simply put the tomb world in it? Technomagic and such

Zothos
07-02-2012, 18:21
If I want quality literature I tend not to look to any book written for any game system.

If you do not like the story that's fine. If you do not like the quality of the writing, that is also fine. I was merely pointing out that I think your reasoning was flawed.

I make no excuses for anyone.
I like the story.

Could it have been written better? Probably.

I simply never expect to see a Codex up for a pulitzer.

Grimdesign
07-02-2012, 18:39
Wouldn't that be a bit noteworthy?

I really don't get why people try to justify simply badly written fluff.

anything can be justified or criticized, part of the human condition :p

That being said, in a universe of obnoxious Orks, chainsaw-swords, unbelievable plot devices, unrealistic last stands, super-human, avatars of war, and gods, what stays and what goes?

Edit: what Zothos said

Korraz
07-02-2012, 20:18
If I want quality literature I tend not to look to any book written for any game system.

If you do not like the story that's fine. If you do not like the quality of the writing, that is also fine. I was merely pointing out that I think your reasoning was flawed.

I make no excuses for anyone.
I like the story.

Could it have been written better? Probably.

I simply never expect to see a Codex up for a pulitzer.

No, I have no census of the Eldar, shortly after a war that should have devastated them, because they were part of it. The last I know is that they fought at the side of the old ones and barely survived.
The current reason given to go to sleep is simply not thought out. "We have nearly eaten the galaxy. Let's wait until it regenerates. To prevent everyone from DYING HORRIBLY, we'll use our mastery of science to turn planets into 100% cold, dead rocks, where nothing is going on, and pick stable locations for them." That sounded reasonable.
"We do the same thing because sort-of-or-not demons from the Warp are invading reality and possessing... living things, well, not us."
Sounds a lot less reasonable, but the operation itself works out.
"We just enslaved physical gods, overthrew the most powerful creatures of the galaxy and now we go to sleep because we can't beat one of their henchman races, for no reason given. We will also take no measures whatsoever to protect ourselves."
Thank you, mister Ward, very nice, have a Good Noodle star.

The fluff never was written awesomely. The quality of the writing was always between "nearly decent" and "dubious." But in recent years the quality has dropped, or should I say: Taken a nosedive. That's undeniable. Not even through the rose colored glasses of nostalgia.
But I'll stop here, because I'm having a Déjà-vu. I have no need to pull through this discussion for the umpteenth time...

Gunless Ganger
07-02-2012, 21:06
Sounds a lot less reasonable, but the operation itself works out.
"We just enslaved physical gods, overthrew the most powerful creatures of the galaxy and now we go to sleep because we can't beat one of their henchman races, for no reason given. We will also take no measures whatsoever to protect ourselves."
Thank you, mister Ward, very nice, have a Good Noodle star.


This just irks me every time I see it. Why do they need to give a reason? Is it not enough just to say "They Could Not Beat Them" end of story. If they gave a reason, it would just be one more thing for nerds to rage over on the Internet.
"How dare they say they couldn't beat the Eldar because there were outnumbered 100-to-1 when in my Eldar codex published 10-odd years ago it CLEARLY says that there were only blah blah blah".

IMO - it's better to be vague and just focus on the important things - the character of the army and what they're doing NOW.


The quality of the writing was always between "nearly decent" and "dubious." But in recent years the quality has dropped, or should I say: Taken a nosedive. That's undeniable.

You can't just add "That's undeniable" onto your subjective opinion and suddenly turn it into an inarguable truth. :p

artekfrost
07-02-2012, 21:15
one thing that has been glossed over is that in the huge galaxy that these events take place in, untold billions is still a pretty small number. As for why they went in to slumber one of the more detailed battle reports noted that when the eldar and necrons engaged in a battle above a planet casualties were so high on both sides as to coat the planet in a layer of debris

Project2501
07-02-2012, 22:17
one thing that has been glossed over is that in the huge galaxy that these events take place in, untold billions is still a pretty small number. As for why they went in to slumber one of the more detailed battle reports noted that when the eldar and necrons engaged in a battle above a planet casualties were so high on both sides as to coat the planet in a layer of debris

That was the tombworld Zapennec.

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Sarnekh_Dynasty#.TzGi9Sd5nTp

Draconis
07-02-2012, 23:41
Some people just look for reasons to argue, they have to be right all the time. or some people just look for things to disagree on. Simple as that. If you don't like the fluff, that's your problem. you're the one playing the army, get over it. The Crons simply decided they could not, repeat, could not win a continued war against the eldar.

Korraz
07-02-2012, 23:59
The hallmarks of great writing.
The Ultramarines are the best.
The Grey Knights are the purest.
The Draigo is invincible.
The Necrons cannot.
Thus is His Word.
Thus is how it is.

Azazel
08-02-2012, 00:43
See , This is a red flag right there. When people starts justifying that a book is bad because it was written with the next core edition in mind ; You know you're in trouble. I remember people saying the same thing about the Chaos space marine & Dark Angel codices back in the days.

The Chaos Space Marines that still win tournaments with a five year old Codex? If the book had been written with just this edition in mind in a few months it would be totally obsolete. At least this way we won't be stuck with a Codex for a previous edition for many years like the last book.


Isn't that what people said about dark eldar? And Grey Knights? Where's our next edition?

Out sometime this year if rumours are true.

Flyrant
08-02-2012, 14:53
Well, ignoring all the illogical decisions and arguements about Necrons going to sleep, theres another aspect of fluff that I'm upset is no longer there:

Where have the Pariahs gone? :'(

Even though the fluff surrounding the Pariah gene etc wasn't that detailed, it still added something to the army I feel, but hey thats just me!

Polaria
08-02-2012, 15:47
I think the fluff isn't really that bad. Most people who say it is terribad base their arguments on one of the following duo:
1) Its different than in earlier Codex, ergo it must be worse than earlier Codex
2) It was written by Ward, ergo it must be terribly bad

IMHO, the fluff is okay on the whole, even good on few details. It gives option for many kinds of different Necron armies, development of Necron characters and such. As such it is better than a very narrow minded "everything is thus-and-thus" fluff of the earlier codex was. Besides, its not really THAT different. Okay, we lost Pariahs (which is a shame) and the C'Tan didn't turn out to be that tough after all, but so what? People just keep on looking for faults on it simply because it was Wards fluff and no-one has the balls to say Ward might have actually pulled out a decent book.

Ruleswise the new Codex is equally okay. Several options for viable army and powerful enough to compete with the cheese. Sure, there are a few odd things here and there, but they probably make more sense when 6th edition comes out. As a long time Necron fan and player I am happy with the new book. Probably the biggest thing I'd like to whine is the not-so-awesome cover art.

Lord Damocles
08-02-2012, 19:08
Where have the Pariahs gone? :'(
Same place faster than light ships went.

That is, nowhere. They're not mentioned in the codex (although there is a picture featuring a Pariah), but they're still there in other background, and haven't been directly contradicted/written out.

Draconis
08-02-2012, 22:03
I thought the Pariahs were the new Praetorians? They certainly take the place it seems.

Flyrant
09-02-2012, 15:10
I thought the Pariahs were the new Praetorians? They certainly take the place it seems.

In the tabletop game, yes, but in the fluff they are rather different, with the Pariahs having the Pariah gene found within humans, which means they have no contact with the warp what so ever, and are the "new breed" of Necron. The Praetorians are ancient Necrons that uphold the old Necrontyr traditions (as far as I remember).

But yeah, I agree, Ward didn't do a bad job on this book: he has managed to boot some life into an army which had little character other than: "lets kill everything because the C'Tan want to eat their souls" kind of thing. The Necrons now have a civilisation and culture which gives them a reason to fight in the 40K setting.

So well done Ward, I congratulate you

Harbinger
09-02-2012, 17:59
People have mentioned Necrons being destoyed, are they no longer teleporting/phased out back to a Tomb World for repairs? If that is the case, where do they get new Necrons?

Phaeron Setek
09-02-2012, 18:06
I thought the Pariahs were the new Praetorians? They certainly take the place it seems.

Pariahs seem to have evolved in the new Lychguard, rather than Praetorians, on the table top. They just lost their fun Psychic Abomination shinannigans...

Draconis
09-02-2012, 21:23
Billions upon billions of necrons still exist. As for destroying them, yes it's possible, but not likely. They state it in the fluff that the necron, if unable to phase out, evaporates in a green energy that is often mistaken for phasing out. However, I found it interesting that scarabs and wraiths can go beserk and start eating things into energy, making more of themselves. That means, ultimately with infinite time, all necrons will become the wraith/scarab drones.

Lord Damocles
09-02-2012, 21:43
People have mentioned Necrons being destoyed, are they no longer teleporting/phased out back to a Tomb World for repairs? If that is the case, where do they get new Necrons?
If they can't phase out they [usually] self destruct.

That would have seemed a sensible feature for them to have before the new codex, anyway, so it's not a great change/addition.

Sunyavadin
12-02-2012, 00:42
I'm sticking with my take on the 5th edition codex, and considering my theory canon for the Rogue Trader game I GM.

The 5th edition codex is a giant Lotus Eater Machine (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/LotusEaterMachine), another layer of control to keep the Necrons holidaying in Manchuria (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheManchurianCandidate).