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Craze_b0i
07-02-2012, 16:15
Using a scale of 1-5 how would you rate each army on magic, shooting, close combat, scouts/skirmishers/ambushers...?

5 = excellent
4 = good
3 = average
2 = below par
1 = dismal.


As an OnG player I'd rate the OnG something like this:

Magic =3. Waaagh magic isn't the best lore available, could do with more buff spells, but then our wizards are pretty cheap so overall not too bad.
Shooting =4. With the present rule-set we have some really good artillery pieces. Not quite as good as Empire & Dwarf, but we can match pretty much anyone else.
Close Combat =3. About mid-range I'd say. Not quite as good as the very top tier. But we have a nice mix.
Scouting/skirmishing/ambushing = 2. Fairly weak, the only thing that we really have for this job is our fast cav with vanguard.

Spiney Norman
07-02-2012, 16:36
Ok, well I'll rate the armies I actually have, and I'll start by disagreeing with you about O&G

Magic - 4, Big waaagh magic is very powerful and magic mushrooms on the night goblin mages allow you to make the most of a magic phase even if the winds roll is low, not to mention that NG mages are super-cheap.
Shooting - 3, nothing spectacular unless you want to spam spear chukkas, some useful warmachines like the Doom diver, but small arms fire is pointless
Combat - 4, savage orcs and squigs really are the money, trolls and arachnaroks are great and wolf chariots cause a big splat as well. The only potential snag is animosity can really ruin your plans.
Scouts/skirmishers/ambushers - 1, not really an O&G speciality

Tomb Kings
Magic - 3, lots of useful tools to boost your magic phase which any elf or empire wizard would sell their grannies for, unfortunately the Lore of Nehekhara is one of the weakest in the game and has to be taken on your highest wizard, sigh! the game giveth, and the game taketh away.
Shooting - 4, cheap archers that always hit on a 5, yes please, catapults that make you panic if they so much as graze your shin, yes please
Combat - 3, very weak blocks supported by powerful monsters, pretty solid, but very easy to find yourself outmanouvred.
Scouts/skirmishers/ambushers - 4, Entombed beneath the sands, need I say any more.

Empire
Magic - 4, access to all the BRB lores and items like the rod of power make Empire a major magical player
Shooting - 5, oh dear god where do I start, cannons, mortars, handgunners and crossbows, you're spoilt for choice basically.
Combat - 2/3, not exactly stellar, but then when you have spent several turns blasting your poor opponent to smithereens with your massed black powder you'll rarely be facing the enemy army at their best.
Skirmishers etc - 2, Huntsmen still have a place I guess, not really anything else of note

ewar
07-02-2012, 16:49
I'll chip in for Lizardmen:

Magic - 5. Priests are incredibly underwhelming, but the fat frog reigns supreme in the magic phase, exactly the way he should do. Becalming is possibly the best ability in any book, subtle, costed right and fits the fluff. Combine with dispel scroll to combat pesky 10 dice Mindrazor FTW.

Combat - 4. The saurus core are solid, if unexciting combat troops. Great value though, 2 attacks S4 T4 and cold blooded, hordes of these make up the bulk of my 8th ed army and never fail.

Shooting - 2. You could argue its 3, so I won't underplay how good it can be depending on opponent. Skinks are the antidote to monsters, salamanders the bane of high volume, low toughness troops. However despite these very specific strength the LM have no shooting >12" range, which is kind of the point of a decent shooting phase.

Scouts - 4. Chameleons are terrific scouts, though limited in choice.

Monsters/Monstrous Inf - 3. Stegs look great, but seem a bit rubbish compared to the new units coming out (Thundertusk, I'm looking at you). Krox look lovely but really do bugger all with low WS and high cost (need S5 base back to make them add something unique).

Techpriest
07-02-2012, 17:42
Ill give a go for Ogres.

Magic 4 - They have Strong Castors that are very beefy in combat and can hold their own. There Ogre Lore has a lot of great buffs for your units and they access to other great lores as well. And with their Magic Items they can get more Power dice with Grots Sickle, and really hurt other Mages with the Hellheart. Firebellies are strong fire mages with extra attacks and the Magic users for Ogres can wear Armor! Magical or normal!

Combat - 4 Again they are solid in combat and are one of the toughest Anvils in the Game, And when they charge a unit they can lay down some serious damage with impact hits, 3 attacks each and stomp attacks. Everything in the army, except Gnoblars, can be effective in combat. Even their Warmachines are chariots that can slam into a unit and cause a lot of damage. They can have some of the more powerful character builds for Close Combat. And Even being monsterous creatures, they have calvary that is devestaing on the charge.

Shooting - 3 While they normally cannot lay out a huge gun line. the shooting they do have can be very effective. Leadbelchers in mass throw out so many shots it is devestaing. They also have Maneaters that can take sniper and poison and go after characters and monsters. Give then a flaming banner and they take away regen as well. The warmachines can move and shoot! Moving to line up better cannon ball shots is huge in a game and they can help protect a flank from MSU riding or flying around.


Scouts/Skirmishers - 1 They severly lack here not having any skirmishers to speak up. They can scout a unit of Maneaters, and be dangerous, as well as having lone saber tusks that are great redirectors and warmachine hunters, but that is the extent of their ability there.

Monsters - 4 All their main infantry and calvary are monsterous creatures. And they have even larger Monsters they can field and ride. Stone horns and such. With their own warmachines on them. And are hard hitters in combat as well.

Mozzamanx
07-02-2012, 18:19
I'll get some good words in for the Beasts!

Magic- 4. While the unique Lore is very poor, the sheer quantity of power dice will bury the opponent under a barrage of common signature spells. A typical magic phase will see you rolling with about 10-12 dice at 2400pts, which fuels a battery of Beast and Shadow support spells. The Bray Shamans are also very competent in terms of combat, with the Lord being equivalent to most fighting Heroes in cracking heads. Supported by a handful of good items (Stone of Spite, Jagged Dagger, Staff of Darkoth and Hagtree Fetish) the Beastman magic phase is extremely competent. It only lacks a 5 because of the lack of direct-damage spells and a very mediocre Lore of the Wild.

Shooting- 1. Shortbows and 275pt Stone Throwers do not make a good basis for a shooting phase. This is really reinforced by the lack of magic missiles, and so stay well away from Beasts if killing at range is your style.

Combat- 4.5. Your army is based around extremely efficient face-eating monsters. A Gor is fast, tough and carries a pair of extremely accurate attacks, all for 8pts. Support this with the devastating power of Bestigor and hairy pig-missile Razorgor, and you have an army which will hold its own against Chaos Warriors. This plays right into the battery of Hexes and Buffs from your mages, to the point that you can very easily have your S5, T5, WS4-Hatred-2A infantry fighting an I1, WS1 opponent. Bestigor just land kill after kill, and Razorgors will quite happily charge down a BSB or Mage on their own. And there is almost nothing in the game that will stand up to a properly kitted Doombull. Really, the only fault here is a lack of armour, but even that is compensated by natural T4.

Scouts / Skirmishers- 3. You get Core skirmishers, and I think Razorgor probably deserve a mention for similar function. Plus you can get scouting Harpies, and theres always the scouting Shaman. Who then turns into a scouting Dragon or Chariot.

Monsters- 4 for options, 2.5 for quality. You get the Giant, Jabber, Ghorgon and Cygor as Rare options, which while cool are not terribly efficient for the extravagant costs. If you don't care about function, then enjoy the models and get what you can out of them. You also have access to the brutally squishy Minotaurs, excellent 'Bulls, and the lovely Razorgor. I would also lump the Razorgor Chariot in here, since its essentially a monster who trades Thunderstomp for Impact Hits and crew.

lordfeint
08-02-2012, 07:23
Here we go Dwarfs.

Magic: 0/5. We don't have it. Unless you count Anvil and dispelling all YOUR magic.
Shooting: 5/5. Runed up Cannons, Bolt Throwers and Grudge Throwers. The Organ Gun. Thunderers and Quarrelers. We got the shooting phase all sewn up.
Combat: 3/5. Our guys are solid, but not stellar. We always take GWs and even if we don't we usually go last anyway. The little guys are tough as nails tho, and hard to break.
Scouts/Skirmishers: 2/5. We have Rangers. Yeah... and the gyro.
Monsters: 0/5. We don't have any of these. Unless you count the 5 fully runed up WMs I picked for my "friendly" 2k point game. In that case we get a solid 4.

Echunia
08-02-2012, 07:45
Rating armies like this is really becoming a trend...
The problem is that it doesn't reflect at all the power of the army in question. Mostly because they make up for it in different fields and players ALWAYS underrate their own army.

Take Lizardmen for example: 2 for shooting? Probably a lot higher dude! Core skirmishers that are extremely cheap is amazing and salamanders + mass poison is incredibly good.

But since you ask I'll go:

Skaven
Magic 5 - Dreaded thirteen, lots of good spells, templates that don't scatter
Shooting 5 - Poison gutter runners, warp lightning, Doom rocker, Brass orb
Combat 4 - Hellpit, Easy access to unbreakable units that hit like trucks and extreme staying power in steadfast slaves
Scouts/Skirmishers 4 - Only one unit, but it's good enough to warrant a 4 because you don't need more than one flavour. Only reason it's not a 5 is because they only have ld 7 as opposed to shades with ld 9
Monsters 5 - Well, hell pit.

Please stop underrating your own armies...

Evil Hypnotist
08-02-2012, 08:19
Throwing in the Warriors of Chaos hat;

Magic 5 - Access to potentially 6 or 7 different lores with the Lores of Chaos means great flexibility, Mark of Tzeentch boosts casting and overall pretty cheap spells that can be devestating if used correctly.

Shooting 1 - I will give 1 point for the Hellcannon, which can be very effective, otherwise nothing else to speak of short of a couple of Chaos gifts

Combat 5 - High initiative, strong and tough core troops. Characters are some of the best melee fighters in the game. Even the cheap, throw-away, marauders can be tooled up to cause serious damage

Scouts/Skirmishers 0 - None to speak of, although this might change in the new book if they make forsaken skirmish.

Monsters 5 - A whole menagarie to choose from; Monsterous Infantry, Terror causing monsters, even monster special characters!

Duke Ramulots
08-02-2012, 08:34
Bretonnians.

Magic- 4: Beasts and life work so well with the knights its criminal

Shooting- 4: flaming archers and the best warmachine in the game and theyre cheap

Combat- 4: You can field an entire army with 2+ saves and the lance formation gives other armies little attacks back. The only reason theyre not a 5 is they need the charge to really win a combat without being buffed.

Scouts- 1: Not really the brets speciallity.

Wesser
08-02-2012, 09:18
Feeling forced to disagree soo strongly with Brets that I make my own...

Bretonnia

Magic: 2 - Can do nothing Empire mages can't do a lot better. Have worse Arcane items as well, and you can't protect them without huge risks. Bret wizards remain the worst in the game.

Shooting: 3 - Trebs are powerful and archers are good value for points. At the end of the day however Bret shooting don't have the stopping power of Empire/Dwarves/SKaven or any of the Elves.

Combat: 4 - Bad at sustained combat, but very durable. Characters can be criminally brutal.

Skrimishers/scouts: 4 - I'll just call the manueverability and say that this is where Brets shine. Pegasus knights and heroes, skirmishing archers and cheap 6-man lances with M8 makes Brets the real speedsters of the game. Only the fact that no actual scouts exist keep the rate at 4.

Darkminion
08-02-2012, 11:28
My view on Ogres:

Magic: 3/4, Ogre magic in itself is just mediocre hence the score of 3. However, because our casters are tough and dangerous in combat also this gives them an edge over other armies wizards, therefore I gave them an extra point.

Shooting: 3/4, Once again, ogre shooting is pretty solid in itself, but nothing many other armies can aquire also. The difference is that all our shooters are Ogres, or tougher and thus often cannot be handled with in the normal manner. On top of this all our shooters are mobile and shoot without penalty after moving, making them very dangerous, thus a score of 4 is warrented for this.

Combat: 5, Ogres hit hard, very hard. We have arguabily the best cavalry unit in the game and core Greatweapon wielding Ogres.

Skirmish/Scout/Movement 5: Ogres have base movement of 6, we have the best cheap chaff unit in the game in Sabretusks, we have cheap and dangerous Gnoblar units. an Ogre player can allways outdeploy an enemy if he wishes. Then we have fast Mournfangs, Scouting and Vanguarding Maneaters, which can be upgraded to do just that what you want them to do also.

Monsters 4: Allthough we do have a wide range of monsters, sadly most of them are outclassed by better options in a competitive list. They are there however and thus I give it a 4.


D...

Paull
08-02-2012, 11:49
I'll throw my hat in for Bretonnians


Magic 2 - Limited to 3 lores but they actually synch quite well with bretonnians. Heavens gives range hitting power and re-rolling 1's on 2+ armour is very nice. Beasts sig spell turns knights into str 4, t4 with 2+ armour, men at arms can be str 5 with halberds! also savage beast of horrors is brutal on bret lords with HKB. Life makes a tough army to kill even tougher with flesh to stone and regen. We lack the versatility of other races and as mentioned before with the exception of the silver mirror (and possibly the prayer icon) we have access to poor arcane items


Combat - 3 Bret's are very dependant on getting the charge. if we fail to get the charge we lack the ability to grind out combats. our low attack count on lances means we can't compete against ranked up infantry. We get access to very killy lord combos. Our foot troops are poor but cheap

Shooting - 3 cheap archers with access to flaming attacks are brilliant. Trebuchet is among the best war machine for points in the game. However only 3 units can shoot in the entire bretonnian list and again comapred to skaven / ogres / dwarves and Empire we lack the ability to take entire gun lines.

Scouts/Skirmishers - 2 - archers can give up their stakes for the ability to skirmish. not amazing as they have to pay an extra point per model to do so, but can provide a nice unit to pester lightly armour troops with. Peg Knights are the ultimate skirmish unit. can fly, have 3+ armour, stomp, lances, vanguard. Only down side is they are on the pricey side for a small unit.


Monsters - 1 - Hippogyph is overcosted and suffers from the same syndrome all big monsters have that they can be shot out from under the rider. they get the bonus of the blessing but rarely make thier points back.

Manling
08-02-2012, 23:40
Magic: 2 - Can do nothing Empire mages can't do a lot better. Have worse Arcane items as well, and you can't protect them without huge risks. Bret wizards remain the worst in the game.

Shooting: 3 - Trebs are powerful and archers are good value for points. At the end of the day however Bret shooting don't have the stopping power of Empire/Dwarves/SKaven or any of the Elves.

Magic-4 because we really dont need the other lores to be awesome at what we do. The fact that we can make our knights toughness 7 And
regrow our units

Shooting-4 just because the cost is soooo much less that we actually can go even more shooty AND we get Defensive stakes whic nullify charge the charge
bonus on weapons like lances and the fact tha its only 5 pts to make the unit flaming attacks. trebs are really effective and are strength 5 off the bat

Combat-4.5 Please we have some of the best combat heroes and lords in the game when you stack all the virtues and magic items that make your army
just better in the fight. Not to mention the fact that Hammer units like Grail knights and the lance is a just a killer considering you can triple charge or even quad charge most horde units and still come out on top

Skirmishers-3 Pegasus Knights are great Warmachine hunters and a good predator of scouts and other skirmishers as well as other Warmachines, Archers well meh.

vinny t
09-02-2012, 00:05
Ogres

Magic: 3/5
Ogre magic is very lacking in some areas. The unique lore is pretty poor with one amazing spell (Trollguts) and a few absolutly worthless ones (The Maw and the Panic one). The attribute is nice but it doesn't make the weak spells much better. In addition, the overall lore selection is limited to the 4 of the worst lores in the BRB (Fire, Heavens, Death, and Beasts). Now despite all of this, Ogre casters are still pretty excellent, boasting an impressive statline, a somewhat cheap cost, and lots of survivability. However, the main thing that pushes the magic rating to 3 are the magic items. The Hellheart can be almost an autowin against some armies and the Greedyfist combined with Death magic can put many enemy casters out of the game. With this level of magic defence ogres can often go toe-to-toe with other armies' magic phases.

Shooting: 3/5
Ogres score a 3 for shooting for one simple reason. Cannons. Cannons are one of the best units in the game, and the Ogre Ironblaster is a very good cannon. Leadbelchers and shooting Maneaters are pretty good but the Ironblaster is what makes Ogres good in the catagory.

Combat: 5/5
Ogres have some of the best troops in the game with Mournfangs, Ironguts, and Maneaters. Head-to-head ogres can take most other armies in the game, unbuffed.

Skirmish/Scout/Movement 4/5:
Great fast units with base movement 6. Excellent cheap deployment options and redirectors. Also great scouts/vanguards in the form of Maneaters.

Monsters 1/5:
Ogre monsters suck. Great monsterous infantry and cavalry but pretty crappy monsters. The Thundertusk is probably the best of them but it's still pretty poor. Too fragile.

Duke Ramulots
09-02-2012, 00:38
Feeling forced to disagree soo strongly with Brets that I make my own...

Bretonnia

Magic: 2 - Can do nothing Empire mages can't do a lot better. Have worse Arcane items as well, and you can't protect them without huge risks. Bret wizards remain the worst in the game.

except have MR standard and can hide in units to stay out of combat.


Shooting: 3 - Trebs are powerful and archers are good value for points. At the end of the day however Bret shooting don't have the stopping power of Empire/Dwarves/SKaven or any of the Elves.

.

You dont find better archers in the game than a 6 point 30" range with flaming attacks and the treb is by far the best warmachine in the game.

Craze_b0i
09-02-2012, 00:42
Magic: 2 - Can do nothing Empire mages can't do a lot better. Have worse Arcane items as well, and you can't protect them without huge risks. Bret wizards remain the worst in the game.

Shooting: 3 - Trebs are powerful and archers are good value for points. At the end of the day however Bret shooting don't have the stopping power of Empire/Dwarves/SKaven or any of the Elves.

Magic-4 because we really dont need the other lores to be awesome at what we do. The fact that we can make our knights toughness 7 And
regrow our units

Shooting-4 just because the cost is soooo much less that we actually can go even more shooty AND we get Defensive stakes whic nullify charge the charge
bonus on weapons like lances and the fact tha its only 5 pts to make the unit flaming attacks. trebs are really effective and are strength 5 off the bat



You seem to disagree with yourself quite strongly there. :)

The Low King
09-02-2012, 01:44
^^^^lol

I like the way that everyone seems to have one gripe with their army and one thing they really like. That and the fact that everyone has completely different veiws on everything.


My dwarfs:

Magic = 0.
Antimagic = 4. Some of the best in the game but can come with a hefty points investment and is useless against IF spam.
Shooting = 5. Empire have volume and power. We have reliability and accuracy.
Close Combat = 2.
Infantry = 3. Solid troops with good Leadership and high toughness/WS. Elite infantry cant match the elite units of other races though (thats why we have warmachines) and lack in the multiattack units.
Everything else = 1. Gyro is nice and very useful in a M3 army but we dont have anything else.
Scouting/skirmishing/ambushing = 4. Rangers are really useful, tough and can be customised (crossbows, longbeards, throwing axes). Miners can be very good against some opponants and insane with an anvil (although an expensive combo). Strollaz banner is great for the vanguard-ish move. However, no skirmishers of any kind.
Monsters = 0. none.


My Lizardmen:

Magic = 5. Slan. Skink priests can also be ok for the cheap signature spell and arcane item caddies.
Shooting = 3. Poison all round, blowpipes are great. Salamanders can be deadly. However, only long range shooting is on stegadon great bows.
Close Combat = 4. Saurus and temple guard are great, skinks with Kroxigores can provide fast support. Saurus cav are ok. However, low WS lets them down sometimes.
Scouting/skirmishing/ambushing = 4. Skinks of both kinds, razordons/salamanders, terradons...all provide a lot of useful options on that front. No exceptional ones though.
Monsters = 3. Stegadons are great but one hit wonders. After then get stuck in they lose a lot of power. no other options.

quietus1986
09-02-2012, 05:32
My idee of Vampire counts
Magic = 5 The vampire lore works great with the army and for 25pnt you can get almost every lore
shooting = 3 only real shooting is the scream banshee/ terrorgheist and the new Mortis Engine its a kind of shooting and there great.but only a 3 no normal shooting and non in core.
combat = 4 low I. But its good at what they have to do
Scouting/skirmishing/ambushing = 4 flyer's an Ethereal and stuff like that And the core wolfs with Vanguard
Monsters = 5 Terrorgheist the MI the zombie dragon for lords an the abyssal Terror. And varghulf.

Spinocus
09-02-2012, 05:49
Warning, I'm a tough grader, no 'grading on a curve' crap in my class... lol!

Skaven
Magic = 4 - A cornucopia of useful, powerful spells at low to reasonable casting levels. Two whole lores and not a stinker in the bunch! Magic phase is really good but not quite first rate like Lizardmen.
Shooting = 4 - Varies from great to meh with lots of uncertainty & danger in-between. WLC with it's low cost & 3", no armor save template rocks, PWM & WFT are really great... when they work. Jezzails, PWG & PCC are just meh due to price, rules, stats, etc.
Combat = 4 - Numbers, numbers, NUMBERS! Skaven won't beat you down but they WILL wear you out.
Scouts/skirmishers/ambushers = 3 - Gutter Runners w/poison & slings are costly but worthwhile world beaters. Unfortunately one great unit does not a category make! Plague Censer Bearers can still bring an amazing amount of pain but I3 really hurts them versus most troops. PWGs are a bit anemic with their BS3 and 8" range. Nightrunners? Are you serious? Lol!
Monsters = 4 - Hellpit Abom & Doomwheel - Potentially devastating but frustratingly random... and neither is as resilient as their critics would have you believe.

Lizardmen
Magic = 5 - Slann facemelts & wtfpwns your opponents at the same time (they'd better given the hype about them in the fluff). Skink Priests are meh; nice benchwarmers and one trick ponies (i.e. Comet spammers).
Shooting = 4 - Jungle Poisons for all Skinks is what makes LM shooting a solid '4'. Chameleons & Salamanders are almost impossible to resist in a list. One medium range shooting option (Ancient Steg) and the ONE long range option (normal Steg) sucks.
Close Combat = 4 - Tough, killy & Cold Blooded. Saurs & TG are fantastic. Scar Veterans are incredibly good deals. Overpriced Kroxigors and Cold One Cavalry limit choices. Skrox are a mixed bag and unbuffed rank & file Skinks suck.
Scouting/skirmishing/ambushing = 5 - Chamo Skinks, Skinks, Hunting Packs, Terradons... what more do you want?
Monsters = 2 - Cost-ineffective monsters that are terrible for all-comers lists and are only useful when taking certain variants/builds (Engine of Gods or Ancient Steg w/Skink Chief & Steg War-Spear). Carnosaur (yeah, I know it's a mount) is vicious but not persuasive enough to prevent the average player from taking a Slann instead of an Old Blood.

Tomb Kings
Magic = 3 - The good, the bad and the ugly. Some spells rock but sadly most are on the pricey side... a factor which pushes the lore low on the 'wow' meter. Lore attribute only allows 1 wound per phase for Constructs?!? Would rate it a '2' were it not for the Casket of Souls whichs REALLY helps take away the sting. Hierotitan for added value bonus.
Shooting = 4 - Good stuff and lots of it. LOVE Arrows of Asaph. Skelly Archers, Chariots & Skelly Horse Archers all add up to a great ranged Core selection. SSCs still solid as ever but their upgrade costs a bit too much now. Even Stalkers have an effective, albeit risky, ranged attack.
Close Combat = 3 - Varies wildly between crap and really good. MWBD is great but in some cases merely serves to offset the pure suckiness of certain units (i.e. Skelly Warriors). Chariots are fearsome on the charge and TG still chop things up. Necro Knights also kick sandy **** but no magic banner?!? C'mon now GW...
Scouting/skirmishing/ambushing = 4 - EBTS can be decisive but also extremely risky... and it's an unwelcome mandatory feature for Scorpions and Stalkers. Horse Archers are great.
Monsters = 4 - Lots of monsters to choose from and they're all nice and balanced, especially when compared to their counterparts in the other 8th ed books.

Ogre Kingdoms
Magic = 3 - Solid and functional without much fanfare. Firebelly provides great synergy (ye gods, did I just use that word?).
Shooting = 4 - Ironblasters are awesome, Leadbelchers are vicious and Maneaters w/Sniper & Poison are just mean. Nearly a 5 were it not for the Scraplauncher... wait, what's that?!?
Close Combat = 5 - Who needs finesse when you can 'Hulk smash!' your enemies into a delicious, meaty pulp?
Scouting/skirmishing/ambushing = 4 - Sabretusks are the best redirectors and cheaptastic war machine hunters in the game. Maneater Scouts = even more meanness. Gorgers are pretty damn good but routinely skipped over for better Specials like Mournfangs, Leadbelchers or Maneaters.
Monsters = 3 - Stonehorn and Thundertusk are solid but not so good that you regret not taking them.

Echunia
09-02-2012, 07:26
The only one you rated harshly was skaven, which I guess is your love child based on your avatar. ;-)

Wesser
09-02-2012, 11:05
except have MR standard and can hide in units to stay out of combat.



You dont find better archers in the game than a 6 point 30" range with flaming attacks and the treb is by far the best warmachine in the game.

MR is useless. Magic missiles etc and even Purple Sun isnt nearly as great a threat as hexes or enemy augments that can cripple your charge. As for hiding in units.... Opponent dispel Throne of Vines? Then 1 misscast= whole knight unit wiped out

Trebs is a contender for best warmachine and archers are great for their cost.

However that don't rly allow you to make a shooty list. You're still BS 3 with Str 3. A unit of 40 bowmen deployed as horde will on average on short/half range cause 7/5 wounds on a T3 enemy before saves and only one spell in the heavens lore allows us to boost their performance. Thats not stopping anyone. Trebs are good, but limited in number and with no other warmachines the Bret shooting phase will at most knock off a few ranks here and there.

Empire, Skaven, Dwarves, Ogres and all 3 elven races have a stronger shooting phase.

Lizardmen is kind of a special case due to their poison and short range. Tomb Kings have machines that hit weaker, but always cause panic and their archers are more expensive, but more dependable too. So lets call it even between Brets and these 2 armies.


That means Bret are stronger shooting-wise than the 3 chaos armies and Vampires. That don't make Bret shooting phase bad per se, but relatively it is hardly impressing and certainly not worth more than a "3" AT BEST.

NerZuhl
09-02-2012, 11:22
I will throw in for Wood Elves

Magic = 2
Special Lore is pretty weak, and moving forests isn't that helpful anymore. Army requires Life Magic to stand a chance (the requirement of a lore of magic is a bad thing) But at least we have some decent counter magic items.

Shooting = 3
Can move and shoot pretty well. Have access to tons of bows. But no access to war-machine level shooting. And have to be close to even get str 4 shots. 1+ save units just wade through the hail of arrows with no problem.

Close Combat = 2
Treekin are good at it. Everything else is pretty lack luster and expensive. Not to mention our "premier" CC unit is a skirmisher unit, fragile and expensive.

Scouts/Skirmishers/Ambushers = 2
We have access to a lot of them....but they are all very poor performers. Skirmishers actually weakens out CC units. If dryads and Wardancers could count ranks, then they would be better off.

Movement = 4
At least the army can move well.

Models = 4
Only bad models in the range are the treekin......god they are *****

Lord Shadowheart
09-02-2012, 11:36
I'll give High Elves a go:

Magic=5
This is where High elves usually shine, access to all lores and some pretty nice arcane items. Teclis will generally even the odds agaisnt whatever your fighting.

Shooting=3
Shooting isn't completely useless, but pretty much all our shooting units or really overcosted. Teclis turns this into a 6 ;)

Combat= 3
Yes, High elves hit really hard, but without defensive spells, they drop so easily.

Scouts/ Skirmishers/ Ambushers=1
Definite 1 for this. Shadow warriors, a shooty unit that pays points for combat abilities you don't really want to be using. Shame really, I really like shadow warrior background, my original high elf army was built around them.

Movement= 5
No real complaints here, a return of the old ithilmar barding would be nice in furture editions.

Models=5
The old spearelf and archer models have really grown on me now. Only real thing I'd like to see now would be new Tyrian & Teclis models, and its not like the current ones are that bad

Andy p
09-02-2012, 12:26
Rating armies like this is really becoming a trend...
The problem is that it doesn't reflect at all the power of the army in question. Mostly because they make up for it in different fields and players ALWAYS underrate their own army.

Please stop underrating your own armies...

You mean army rating is just....*stunned gasp* OPINION?!!!


Noooo I never would have suspected that.

Ps: If I come off as a dick, I wasn't trying to be I just cant resist the opportunity for some bad sarcasm.

Echunia
09-02-2012, 15:40
You mean army rating is just....*stunned gasp* OPINION?!!!


Noooo I never would have suspected that.

Ps: If I come off as a dick, I wasn't trying to be I just cant resist the opportunity for some bad sarcasm.

Hehe, well the thing is that people are using it as an argument to compare strengths of armies. Just look through the VC vs TK thread and you'll find several instances of people doing this and arguing that last ed. VC are worse than TK. I'm fine if people want to whine about their armies because they're preforming bad with them. It just feels like it's labled: I lose because my army is bad at x. More often than not it's probably more down to bad unit selection, no experience or bad play.

Spinocus
09-02-2012, 16:57
The only one you rated harshly was skaven, which I guess is your love child based on your avatar. ;-)

Heh. Indeed, Skaven were my first furry love in WHFB, and one that I embraced well before the 7th ed army book was released. Those were the good old days, when an honest rat could take to the table without being assailed by cries of cheese... ;)

I tried to evaluate each of my armies based on ALL their units/rules/spells, not just the ones that get constant use in lists. I've owned my Skaven army the longest so I'm far more familiar with their ups & downs. I actually considered rating them a '5' in Combat were it not for the fact that; 1) They're just not a killy melee army without the Abom, a frenzied Stormvermin horde, Queek's Bodyguard Stormvermin or some other 'trick' unit; 2) OK & WoC are far more deserving of the top mark; 3) It's hard to give a '5' to an army that wins by taking longer to grind their own units into a pulp (this is probably why GW made the Abom and Plague Furnace so fearsome) and; 4) They're too reliant on SiN; disrupt their units or negate their General's Ld and things fall apart... fast.

Francis
09-02-2012, 18:36
Magic=5
This is where High elves usually shine, access to all lores and some pretty nice arcane items. Teclis will generally even the odds agaisnt whatever your fighting.

Since Teclis and BoH is usually comped out, I would not put more than 4 at this point. Besides this I think you are underestimating eagles which would probably push our skirmish ability up to 3 all on their own. All the rest is dead on I think.

Duke Ramulots
09-02-2012, 18:53
Since Teclis and BoH is usually comped out, I would not put more than 4 at this point. Besides this I think you are underestimating eagles which would probably push our skirmish ability up to 3 all on their own. All the rest is dead on I think.

Are we rating armies in warhammer? Or are we rating armies in an infinate array of comp systems?

Drongol
09-02-2012, 23:52
I'll go ahead and jump in for a few armies. Why not?

Ogre Kingdoms
Magic: 3. Pretty solid buffs in the Lore of the Great Maw, but solidly outclassed by the more magically-inclined races. And while their wizards are beefy and pretty good in a stand-up fight, they pay for those combat stats, making them less efficient points-wise (but darned nice).
Shooting: 3 as well. Ironblasters are very, very nice. Sniper Maneaters (depending on how you interpret the rule) are also very good. Leadbelchers are a bit too expensive for my taste and while the army can have quite a bit of support fire, a gunline is pretty much inadvisable.
Combat: 5. Outclassed by Warriors of Chaos, sure, but against just about anything else, the Ogres can really shine here.
Movement, etc: 5. Fast, fast units, cheap redirectors, the ability to take a scouting/vanguard unit of Maneaters. Ogres have the movement phase down pat.
Monsters: 2. They have them. They aren't good. They're not Beastmen bad, but they're still a pretty lousy choice.

Orcs and Goblins
Magic: 3. Being limited to the two lores hurts. Night Goblin shamans are great for the cost, but the mushroom die can often ruin your best-laid plans.
Shooting: 2. They can shoot some, but it's largely inefficient. Rock lobbas and doom divers are nice, though.
Close Combat: 4. There's very little that can stand up to a big unit of Savage Orc Big'Uns or Black Orcs with the proper gear.
Movement Shenanigans: 1. Orcs basically have all sorts of nasty little rules that say "No, you're not going to do what you want to do." Frenzy, Animosity, Stupidity, etc. Lots of random movement as well.
Monsters: 3. The Arachnarok is nice if expensive, and the lack of any real sort of save against artillery hurts it.

Chaos Dwarfs (because I can)
Magic: 4. Ash Cloud is perhaps the best spell in the game from my personal standpoint, and while their lore selection is limited, they can do a lot with what they have.
Shooting: 5! Playing against a Chaos Dwarf army is like running an obstacle course. Can you get through the magma cannons and deathshriekers with enough of your army intact to win the game? At least they won't have a lot of BS-based shooting to go with it.
Close Combat: 3. The Infernal Guard are basically slightly-discounted Ironbreakers, which is nice, but they're still too expensive. The Destroyer, on the other hand, rates a 5 all by itself.
Movement Stuff: 1. Again, the Destroyer rates a 4, but the rest of the army is going to pretty much sit there. Even the chaff is overpriced and a rare choice.
Monsters: 5. I really cannot stress this enough. The Destroyer is by far the best monster in the game (much like the magma cannon is the best war machine in the game). The only drawback to the K'daai Destroyer is that you can't take two in a 2500 point game.

the Witch kings regent
10-02-2012, 01:03
on my opinion for dark elves

Magic - 4, They have open options for the most destructive lores and dark magic is a beast, and they are the most powerful casters out their becuase they can through 24 power dice at one spell and not care, its a 4 becuase they have a low defence from miscast.
Magic items - 5, They have some of the greatest items in the warhammer world. from the pendant of Khaeleth to the executioners axe and the venom sword. you can tool your characters out to however you want and have them killing specifics. also they get a decent magic stopper from thier items with the Seal of ghrond and ring of hotek ( i love making teclis fail his spells on doubles).
Special characcters - 5, Malekith is the best wizard since he shines in the magic phase and is a BAMF in combat too. Morathi is great since you can get her up to a +6 in casting atempts and she has a 4+ ward that goes to 2+ against magic. Crone= 7-9 Str10 attacks a turn.... nuff said
Charactes - 3, fast and decent strength but expecive and were elves so squishy.
Shooting - 3, repeater crossbows are good but we lack a artillery, but Dark elves are not about pounding you with cannons but with mosters and blades.
Monsters - 4, hydras, dragons, manticores, were good here. need more options to meet the background though
Close combat - 4, were fast and agile but low armor and squishy. but fear when we hit cause its a BITCH. with executioners, black guard, witches, hydras, spearmen, Cold one knights, shades, and characters, who half can shoot mostly.
Movement - 5, fast at M5 and have damn good cavalry, plus high leadership for reforms with the musician. and the hands down best skirmishers,
Scout/skirmish/ambush - 3 since we have only two units but shades are BAMF's too, good range and good combat. worth their points
Defences - 2, low armor and T3 with mid range cost.
Leadership/BSB - 5, army wide 8 or higher almost and BSB with some of the best banners, banner of nagarythe. along with malekiths absolute power. hard to make us fall back.
that it

Makaber
10-02-2012, 01:48
Beastmen!

Magic: 4! It's certainly up there, with a good choice of available Lores, and the options to go with either the Jagged Dagger melee powerhouse, or the excellent Shard of the Herdstone. Bonus points for actually having pretty good stats on the Great Bray Shaman, so you don't have to be too concerned with getting him in the fray. Still, they fall a little short compared to Slanns, Teclis, and the like.

Shooting: 1! The only ranged options are the grossly overpriced Cygor, or the short bow equipped Ungor Raiders, plus the Hunting Spear if you want to nitpick. Only the Ungors are any good, though, and even then the shooting is mostly a bonus, as their real strength is being cheap skirmishers.

Close Combat: 4! Primal Fury is what makes the Beastmen shine. Gors are solid Core choices, while Bestigors are really, really good. Add to that some of the more outrageously effective Doombull builds, and you're left with some bad ass melee capability. Unfortunately, the book as a whole is dragged down a bit by the lacklustre Centigors and Minotaurs, but stay clear of those and you're firmly planted in the upper echelons of the melee game.

Scouts/skirmishing/mobility: 5! Even disregarding the subpar racial signature Ambush ability, the chaff of the Beastmen alone are pure awesome-sauce. The ever-useful single Razorgors, the flying Harpies, the general Movement 5 of the basic troops, cheap Ungor Raiders as Core, you get pretty much everything you'd ever need in this department. This is where the Beastmen truly shine.

Monsters: 2! A varied selection counts for something, but they're way, way too expensive. The only monster worth considering fielding is the Ghorgon, and even that is probably at least 30 points too expensive, and what you're paying for it would probably be better served on a Doombull or just more Bestigors. Still, it packs a punch and Ld 10 Stubborn counts for something.

Worship
10-02-2012, 02:11
Someone be so kind as to rate Daemons.. I'm interested