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Yodhrin
24-04-2006, 20:01
I'll make this clear up front; this forum has a high number of people who dislike GW and bash it at every opertunity, and if you fit that description just turn around and sod off right now, because your opinions are not wanted.

Now then, I've been slogging away trying to gain "serious" qualifications for quite a few years now, and Im bored of it. I just dont work well in a structured learning environment, I like to study a wide range of topics at once, often several subjects at once, but the way the education system works means specialisation is the only option for advanced courses. Ive decided to say "sod it" and find work. Proper work, not some two day a week part time job for pocket money.

So, Im considering going for a long-term career with GW, but I have a few questions. First, what are the salaries like? I'm assuming the normal retail assistant salary is in line with the average for similar jobs, but seeing as it doesn't list it on their careers page that I can find, I don't know.

Second, what are the oppertunities for progression like? Other than management, do retail staffers ever actually get to advance into different areas of the company, or is that simply the old carrot 'onna stick? Related question; is Warhammer World considered to be "just another retail store", or are positions there considered a rung up the ladder from "normal" retail jobs?

Third, I've actually applied to GW before for a job in my local store(this time I would be unconcerned with location, ie I would be willing to move), but I was a bit younger and wasn't particularly serious about it, plus I was far more....socially retarded back then, so much so that I lost my voice at one stage of the interview because I was so nervous :D How much is that likely to count against me when they're selecting interview candidates?

Finally, the company blurb on their site about hobby knowledge doesn't quite seem to match up to the reality in some cases. I've seen some forces by staff which are pretty craptacular, complete with mould lines and unthinned, clumpy paint and little highlighting, plus there's the odd idiot with no idea of the rules. Is the standard just lower than they would like us to think, or were some people just lucky enough to bluff their way through the interview and then be assigned to a lenient manager? Roughly what level of ability is needed for your painting to be considered "staff-standard", and when they say you need a good knowledge of all three core systems, does that mean you can get away with knowing enough to run demo games, or are you expected to give rulebook and codex referances to customers from memory?

Anyway, I have until the end of the summer(for colleges) to bring myself up to scratch and get an interview, or I'll have to slog through another year of college, so just over three months. Im confident I can achieve the needed standards, as I have an excellent memory for rules and, while Im out of practice, my theoretical knowledge of painting techniques is extensive, so if I buckle down and practice those techniques Ill be fine there. I just need to know where the bar is, so I have something to aim for rather than nebulous statements like "be good at it".

Any advice/tips are appreciated.

Nurglitch
24-04-2006, 20:07
I'd seriously recommended gritting your teeth and getting that piece of paper. It'll come in handy when you want real work.

Zzarchov
24-04-2006, 20:14
MvS wrote a good post about working in GW

http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=30662

In general though, the wage is lower than retail average, and like all retail jobs..the best you can do will be worse than the average of someone with a piece of paper.

Its not about your merits or knowledge in any field, its about the qualifications you have records of.

Grimshawl
24-04-2006, 20:24
first off let me say I agree with the above posters, most people with college diplomas dont even work in the field/ subject they became eduacated in so the degree is at best proof that you were willing to jump thru the education systems hoops and pay your dues more than a statement of how well suited you are to any job and in spite of that most companies will pay you alot better if you posses said diploma, so think twice before you turn away from completing your eduacation, secondly GW is not known to pay well as a company, usually below average earnings with few promotion/ advancement oppertunities so really think hard about this idea and try to get into contact with some others who have GW employee expierience.

Luke
24-04-2006, 20:30
when you make your hobby your proffesion, you lose the love for it. Nuff said I think.

Btw, when I got my piece of paper saying I was a qualified gym instructor lvel 2, I started work on the bottom rung (so to speak) at double minimum wage with a raise every 6 months and great career ops etc etc blurb.

Get your qualifications lad, you do not want to be stuck in a shop the rest of your life.

starlight
24-04-2006, 20:35
First, what are the salaries like?

Second, what are the oppertunities for progression like? Other than management, do retail staffers ever actually get to advance into different areas of the company, or is that simply the old carrot 'onna stick? Related question; is Warhammer World considered to be "just another retail store", or are positions there considered a rung up the ladder from "normal" retail jobs?

Third, How much is that likely to count against me when they're selecting interview candidates?

Finally, Is the standard just lower than they would like us to think, or were some people just lucky enough to bluff their way through the interview and then be assigned to a lenient manager? Roughly what level of ability is needed for your painting to be considered "staff-standard", and when they say you need a good knowledge of all three core systems, does that mean you can get away with knowing enough to run demo games, or are you expected to give rulebook and codex referances to customers from memory?

Any advice/tips are appreciated.
Well now.:p

1) Crappy at best. As far as retail goes, you're doing it for the discounted stuff or the love of retailing to kids.

2) While the answer is techically Yes, it can be hard to get noticed by HQ, so don't expect a meteoric rise. Its all about getting noticed for the right things. Volunteer for *every* job that comes by and *excel* at each one. Go to every Staff event and make a good impression. Show up at the Staff Tournies with fantastic armies and kick butt (without *too much* cheese).

3) Not likely much, depending on the interviewer. If they ask, just admit that you were young and nervous and show how much you've improved.

4a) Sadly, yes.:(
4b) Walk into a GW store, look in the cabinets, that's your standard.
4c) Demo games are special games designed to get people excited. You will need to know how to run both Demos and Real games. You should know the Core Rules cold and at least your army, Marines and the current releases.

Ask away.:D While I don't work for them anymore, I wouldn't have an issue going back, as long as it wasn't Retail.:D (But that's just because I don't like Retail in general)

Yodhrin
24-04-2006, 20:37
Hmm, and you know that for a fact do you(edit: with regards to luke's assertion that I dont want to work in a shop)? Tell you what, lets add another caveat; if you're just going to "tow the line" and tell me to get an education, also feel free to not post. I started this thread because I WANT to work for GW, Im interested in posts from people attempting to help me achieve that goal, not belittle me for attempting it. I DO consider it to be a "proper job". And also, while you may have decided to just accept the "status quo" and force yourself to go through years of misery for the sake of a few extra quid, try and understand that not all of us are willing to make that sacrifice, and we are NOT below you because of that. I spent four and a half years of my life being put through hell in high school, and I REFUSE to waste another four getting a degree just for the sake of it.

Thanks Starlight. With regards to checking out cabinets, yeah that's ok, but the standard varies so much it's not even funny. Most of the minis I see in my own town's store are of good quality, but Ive been to about six GW stores across the UK and in some I honestly thought the minis on display were the winners of a kiddies painting competition or something. I mean, what sort of ranking would a mini have to get on CMON, for example, before it would be considered staff-level?

I dont intend to stay retail forever, but Im not sure where I would go in the company, as I dont see myself as "management material", in that I certainly enjoy being "in charge", but generally dont handle it well(nothing sucks worse than working for a bossy, controlling ****, which is exactly what I become if I gain too much responsibility :p), so that tip about grabbing any available jobs to get noticed is handy.

If you dont mind, could you give me a rough idea of what the "common" jobs entail, ie, what are the day to day duties which may not be mentioned on the website or in recruitment material.

starlight
24-04-2006, 20:43
<wonders who the heck he's talking too:eyebrows:>

Ill Eagle
24-04-2006, 20:43
So you wanna work for GW? Then apparently you need to move to China. Get yourself hooked up with one of those slave labor camps that are all the rage now. I'm pretty sure you can circumlocute the whole "four years of university hell" aspect by going that route.

Nurglitch
24-04-2006, 20:44
Advising you not to waste your time in college by dropping out is hardly belittling you. Getting a degree for the sake of it is not the point of college. The point is getting a special ticket that grants access to earnings and jobs that you will not otherwise have access to.

Luke
24-04-2006, 20:54
So, you just want us to tell you that you are making "the right choice"?
Listen Yodhrin, I respect your views quite a lot and untill now I had a great deal of time for you, but if you are just going to poo-poo everyone who is giving you some sensible experience-type advice then maybe I got you wrong.

Listen, when I hit rock bottom and dropped out of Uni I considered GW out of desperation knowing I oculd probably make it as a redshirt. Then I thought about the fact that I would have no qualifications and be working at minimum wage forever and this got me thinking about college again. I'm glad I didnt go work for GW.

The Ape
24-04-2006, 20:58
Yodhrin, I would listen to the advice people are placing on this topic. All this experience cant be wrong.
Every job has its plus and negative points.

Iv worked for GW for 2.5 years as both full time and key-time in the UK (before they made me redundant) and it was my first job after leaving university and law school, and it was meant to be a stop-gap before i joined the army.

I enjjoyed working for GW and i have nothing against them. I worked with a great bunch of blokes, and i was lucky enough to work at Warhammer World for a while as well.

The plus points are that yes you are doing your hobby, you get a great discount and you get to pass on your love of GW to people.

The negatives - the pay. Its poor. It really is. It gets better when/if you become a manager, but to begin with its barely enough to scrape a living on. You get some dodgy customers who you have to talk to - im not just talking smelly teenagers, im talking about irate parents, chavs, annoying little kids.

After a time you do start to feel burnt out. You spend all day painting shop models - its great in that you get to paint them a month or two before they come out, but the negative side is you come home and painting your own stuff is the last thing on your mind.

Im just trying to put across an honest picture of what its like to work for GW. My advice would be to go college, and get some qualifications. Its a lot easier to do it when you are young. I dont know where you got the idea of college/uni being years of misery from?! It's great and nothing like 6th form/high school.

If you are intent on getting somewhere with GW, be aware that once/if you get high enough, having a degree (or not) may well have an impact on your chances of getting promoted.

Exterminatus
24-04-2006, 20:58
I worked in Retail for about 4 years. In the end, when you finally rent a house, the salaries just dont pay the bills. YOu will live on a minimum wage for a long time.

I have a good office job now ( by luck ), and am studying part time. Maybe part time study is something for you, night classes usually have older, more serious minded people. Hardly hell.

I am not trying to belittle you or anything, merely I am trying to tell you the worth of an education.

Hlokk
24-04-2006, 21:25
Third, I've actually applied to GW before for a job in my local store(this time I would be unconcerned with location, ie I would be willing to move), but I was a bit younger and wasn't particularly serious about it, plus I was far more....socially retarded back then, so much so that I lost my voice at one stage of the interview because I was so nervous :D How much is that likely to count against me when they're selecting interview candidates?

That depends. Theoretically, it shouldnt affect it at all, and you have the grounds for a complaint of you feel it adversly affects your application. However, the thing you must remember is that GW HR do not conduct the inverviews, they are conducted at the manager and area manager level, therefore the HR department is likely to know you applied and have a copy of your CV on file, but if its a different manager, they are unlikely to know the specifics of the interview and so the process should be fairly objective.

Thats a long winded way of saying it may impact slightly, but it shouldnt have that much impact. (and frankly, I found GW HR exstremely inefficient when dealing with them, so i doubt there'll even be a marginal impact at that)

As far as salary is concerned, I think its just minimum wage, with little opportunity for overtime. However, you do get a hell of a staff discount, so perhaps it would be in your interest to spend a month working in a highly paid environment with loads of money, save it all, and then spank the staff discount when you get the job with GW.

In all honesty, I think as much depends on the quality of your model painting as it does the interview.

starlight
24-04-2006, 21:33
Interview importance:

a) passion for the hobby - this is what sets GW people from *some guy who sells things*. This is important - showing lots of this can cover some significant gaps in other areas.

b) quality of models - painted is good - conversions are good, but for the interview show that you understand the GW iconography and colours. Don't come in for an interview and try to peddle Pink UltraMarines of D00M with converted BlastMasters and Defilers.:rolleyes: That's fine in your DIY chapter, but GW wants to see that you can talk the company line.

c) ability to not scare people - shy isn't *bad*, but nor is it helpful. Smelly, offensive, rude - all bad. Show up properly dressed and prepared.

mangustheix
24-04-2006, 21:47
I worked for GW for about 2 years. There were good points and bad points. If you are thinking about a full career there then the best tip is do everything. work your butt off and loads of extra things. For example, if the cell manager comes round and says you need to do a good campaign over the summer, then get out there, make special senarios, terrain, characters and get everyone in. You will need to be willing to do the overtime since this isnt possible to do during the normal day. They track the number of demo games and the number of gamers in, especially on holidays, so if you get those figures way up then you will definitely make an impression. If you want to go to the studio then I would suggest you submit plenty to WD through the company and get yourself along to some events to meet some of the guys up there.

Regarding painting, you have answered your own question. There is a huge variance in the standard of painting. I myself was only ok, but as long as you have a few nice minis for the interview and some good ideas then you will be ok. Also, you do need to be pretty quick, since you will have a flood of minis.

Day to Day: Clean the store, restock, do sales, do demo games, talk to some people. Around this you will also have to fit in the painting and terrain building. You will not get to just sit down and paint, you will be getting up every five minutes. Saturdays will be very tiring since you will be teaching the kids, and it does take it out of you.

Salary: Not good, and will not get better until you are at least at Cell Manager level, but even then:( . Obviously money is not everything though. If you are serious then aim for the top and stick it out.

Hobby: You will not do any of your own stuff while you are doing the retail. It really is a passion killer. You can through yourself into your work though with all the extra time though.

Education: I know everyone has said it already, and you dont want to hear it, but if you can, go to uni. University is completely different than school, and it will benefit you in the long run. It just allows you to go that much further and all employers (GW included) look at a degree as a large bonus.

Hope the above helps and good luck. It is a hard road, but if you want it then it is possible.

Yodhrin
24-04-2006, 22:21
So, you just want us to tell you that you are making "the right choice"?
Listen Yodhrin, I respect your views quite a lot and untill now I had a great deal of time for you, but if you are just going to poo-poo everyone who is giving you some sensible experience-type advice then maybe I got you wrong.

Listen, when I hit rock bottom and dropped out of Uni I considered GW out of desperation knowing I oculd probably make it as a redshirt. Then I thought about the fact that I would have no qualifications and be working at minimum wage forever and this got me thinking about college again. I'm glad I didnt go work for GW.

No mate, my point is that I've already made my choice, and I didn't just wake up this morning and pull the idea out of my ****. Im not soliciting opinions on my choice, whether getting a complete education is a good idea for me, or whether or not working for GW is a good idea, Im asking for help in achieving my goal, and I resent the constant implication that Im incapable of making such a decision and need everyone to set me right with their sage wisdom.

Nurglitch
24-04-2006, 22:24
Hey, let's try that sentence out again using a context meter!

No mate, my point is that I've already made my choice to shoot myself in the foot, and I didn't just wake up this morning and pull the idea out of my ****. Im not soliciting opinions on my choice, whether getting a complete education is a good idea for me, or whether or not shooting myself in the foot is a good idea, Im asking for help in achieving my goal, and I resent the constant implication that Im incapable of making such a decision and need everyone to set me right with their sage wisdom.

starlight
24-04-2006, 22:26
Well, if that's the case, you should have said so right up front. Your initial post was very much of the....oh, let's just quote from it:


So, Im considering going for a long-term career with GW, but I have a few questions.

So with that in mind, totally understand the responses.

Now if you'd come out and said:

I'm going to try to get a job, I'm committed to it and need some help. What suggestions can I get from previous/existing employees to help me?

I'm sure that you would have gotten quite different results.:eyebrows:

Luke
24-04-2006, 22:32
@ Yodhrin: Ok, no problem. I admit my approach is a bit straightforward, but if you wont listen to me, at least listen to everyone else and what they are saying.

stonedrose
24-04-2006, 22:42
I don't want to get involved in any direct criticisms, but here we go, I worked for games workshop for 18 months. Unless you have specialist skills you are probably going to start in retail. I know from past experience of the company and tens of staff that success is very subjective to whether you are liked or not, GW loves the golden hand shake, not that this may be different from other employers but was very apparent when I worked there.

I have worked with and known many staff, some have worked for the company for a very long time, I believe one is the longest serving manager in the company (sorry if I'm wrong....but it was the case a few years ago), he is still a manager, despite working for the company for 15 years, he was able and had won manager of the year but progress eluded him.

On another hand I knew a guy who was a key timer at my store, got an IT degree at northumbria Uni and went to work for the web team............to cut a long story short he is now the editor of UK white dwarf.......

Two very contrasting stories, but unfortunately the first one is in the majority, I have many other examples. As far as I am concerned each to their own, but I don't know many who really have succeeded in the company without a great deal of luck, the golden handshake and making the right decision at the right time.

I hope you make the right decision for you.

For the sake of it my pros and cons while working for GW:
The pay was appauling (due to my age at the time)
The middle management were scum and in my area continue to be as far as I am aware
It is a very easy company to get sacked from if you don't make the grade (for the record I didn't and was part of the best store in the region........just so's you don't think I was crap!!)
The discount is top, I still have armies to paint and I was there 4 years ago!!
It is a laugh, but harder work than you'd think, but definately worth it if you're just in it for the job
Promotions: At the time, squad leader courses were hard to come by (you were selected) dunno current state of affairs
I loved working with people, especially kids and I've continued that in my current career (I'm now a medical student)

Hope this is fair and balanced and helps a bit too!

starlight
24-04-2006, 22:45
stonedrose has summed it up pretty well. The Canadian Experience is fairly similar.

Chiron
24-04-2006, 22:48
I'm curious, I'm on a ***** salary now so just how bad are the wages for ull time sales assistants? under 10k?

starlight
24-04-2006, 22:52
In Canada they were about MinWage + 50%. Manager topped out about MinWage x 2. I didn't know a Manager who could afford the job without a spouse who had a better one.:(

Sad state of affairs, but that's GW. People doing great work for crap pay because they love it and the spouse is paying the majority of the bills.

stonedrose
24-04-2006, 22:53
They went up when I left, I think they are above 10K, but only just.....maybe 11K but it would be nice if someone can confirm.

An overwhelming feeling I got when I worked was how much money I ploughed back into GW! It happens to everyone once you get the discount and can mail order! So I don't really class it as the salary stated on paper.

Wonderdog
25-04-2006, 00:11
Its not a job to get into with the goal of making money.

Best route of progression has traditionally and still is for someone "upstairs" to take a shine to you. Do whatever you can to make this the case.

Retail is not where to start. A job in the canteen (though vitally, not the dispatch or mail order depts!) at Lenton will serve you better in the long run.

Suck up. GW management love that.

Write stuff. Send it to people that will use it as they're own, and who may then want to keep you handy to do more of it. When they move on, get their old job.

Alternatively, get a job with an up and coming minature company, and let GW headhunt you back inhouse.

Hope some of this helps, you mad, deluded bastard!

#Wonderdog

Mikhaila
25-04-2006, 00:11
I worked for 7 years in school, picking up a BS in Mathematics, and then got my Masters in Applied Stats. Two months later I opened my first comic/game shop, and haven't worked for anyone but myself for over 18 years. Some people have told me I shouldn't have wasted time in college if I was opening up my own business, others tell me I'm wasting my degrees.
The truth is, I wouldn't have been able to stay in business this long without the knowledge and experience that I got in college. Predicting sales, dealing with people, advertising, budgets and balancing checkbooks: all of it goes back to things I learned while getting my degrees. A lot of math goes a long way in business. The advertising, propaganda, and business classes help out in numerous ways. Just being a more organized person and knowing that I can tackle big projects and pull them off is valuble to me.

My advice is this: Keep going to college, but make sure that you are studying things that will help you later. The college degree will help a lot if you want to move up into GW management beyond running a store. While you're in college, also study the things you need to work at GW. Become an expert in all the current rules systems, and read up on the specialist games. Don't just paint, take the time to become a better painter, and work with other people. Play a lot of games, keep yourself involved in the hobby. If you can, get a part time job with the local GW store. Work your butt off for them, so that when you are done with school, you can go full time.

At the same time, make a study of independent gaming shops. It may be that working for GW won't always be a good fit, but their training is excellant help in opening up your own shop.

starlight
25-04-2006, 00:32
Step 1) Read what Mikhaila said.
Step 2) Repeat.

:D

Easy E
25-04-2006, 00:58
Good Luck.

I interviewed with them many years ago when the US market was just starting to be a focus (1998-99) It was nice that they flew me out to Baltimore. They gave me a free copy of Warhammer Fantasy and Magic because that was the system I was least familar with. They gave me a nice tour and I met with many people there. They were very up front about the fact that the pay was not spectacular, and many of their lower echelon staff had other jobs as well. However, they were willing to pay to have me relocated and give me a stipened for temporary housing for a few months. They let me know that they felt working within your hobby was a benefit all of its own. Both of the guys that were in charge of the hiring process had worked there way up from the bottom up. After I was home, they called and asked to hire me on. I declined. That was my GW experieince.

They never asked to see my models, and did not care that I was not fluent in one of their systems. They didn't care that I didn't have a subscription to White Dwarf. What they did care about was that I knew how to sell, sell, sell, and do some customer service. I also had a college degree. Granted, this was not for a retail job- it was trade sales. That's my GW experience. Take it for what it is worth. Remember, you may not have to start in the shop.

The.Zocolo
25-04-2006, 08:05
You want honest? OK, here's honest


Now then, I've been slogging away trying to gain "serious" qualifications for quite a few years now, and Im bored of it. I just dont work well in a structured learning environment, I like to study a wide range of topics at once, often several subjects at once, but the way the education system works means specialisation is the only option for advanced courses. Ive decided to say "sod it" and find work. Proper work, not some two day a week part time job for pocket money.

So, Im considering going for a long-term career with GW, but I have a few questions. First, what are the salaries like? I'm assuming the normal retail assistant salary is in line with the average for similar jobs, but seeing as it doesn't list it on their careers page that I can find, I don't know.

Games Workshop have/had a fast track graduate program, this will get you to an advanced level in the company real quick. As for the wages they were higher than normal when I worked there, but that was a few years ago.


Second, what are the oppertunities for progression like? Other than management, do retail staffers ever actually get to advance into different areas of the company, or is that simply the old carrot 'onna stick? Related question; is Warhammer World considered to be "just another retail store", or are positions there considered a rung up the ladder from "normal" retail jobs?

There are plenty of opportinities within the company but you have to make the effort to get noticed by the right people, volunteer lots, get your face recognised, come up with ideas and put them forward.


Third, I've actually applied to GW before for a job in my local store(this time I would be unconcerned with location, ie I would be willing to move), but I was a bit younger and wasn't particularly serious about it, plus I was far more....socially retarded back then, so much so that I lost my voice at one stage of the interview because I was so nervous How much is that likely to count against me when they're selecting interview candidates?

Not in the slightest. I was interviewed twice in a month by the same guy and got the job second attempt.


Finally, the company blurb on their site about hobby knowledge doesn't quite seem to match up to the reality in some cases. I've seen some forces by staff which are pretty craptacular, complete with mould lines and unthinned, clumpy paint and little highlighting, plus there's the odd idiot with no idea of the rules. Is the standard just lower than they would like us to think, or were some people just lucky enough to bluff their way through the interview and then be assigned to a lenient manager? Roughly what level of ability is needed for your painting to be considered "staff-standard", and when they say you need a good knowledge of all three core systems, does that mean you can get away with knowing enough to run demo games, or are you expected to give rulebook and codex referances to customers from memory?

You need to be able to demo ALL core systems and run big Saturday games. Other than that you will need to know where to look up any specific answers to any dumb question put to you.


I dont intend to stay retail forever, but Im not sure where I would go in the company, as I dont see myself as "management material", in that I certainly enjoy being "in charge", but generally dont handle it well(nothing sucks worse than working for a bossy, controlling ****, which is exactly what I become if I gain too much responsibility ), so that tip about grabbing any available jobs to get noticed is handy.

You just described about every manager in GW :D


If you dont mind, could you give me a rough idea of what the "common" jobs entail, ie, what are the day to day duties which may not be mentioned on the website or in recruitment material.

Building terrain boards from scratch
Selling everything not nailed down
Cleaning
More Cleaning
Painting for the cabinet and demo tables
More Cleaning



Finally, when I worked for GW I painted lots of my own stuff while at work. Remember you are supposed to look busy all the time. If there is nothing else for you to do any reasonable manager will allow you to paint all day.

RevEv
25-04-2006, 09:02
Most of what I can add has been said.

I worked for GW between finishing a Degree and starting the job the degree was done for - so temporarily. It was a great job, but paid minimum wage which went far too quickly on travel, food and the obligatory staff discount.

Whether you do well in the company depends on luck. Near the end of my tenure I was working right next to the area hobby manager (who was on the phone at the till at the time) when someone approached me to buy the fortress. I remembered, and offered, and sold the special deal - which got me noticed. The area manager offered to find me a post elsewhere when I took up my new job... sadly the nearest stores were at least an hour away from where I would be living so it was not possible.

No matter how much you don't like hearing it listen to the advice... get the qualifications then work for GW. I know of noone from my time at GW who still works for GW, they still play but they don't work for GW. It is only a long term job in a very small minority of cases.

purplehoob
25-04-2006, 11:20
My personal thoughts aside the facts are that every manager in the past 5 years of my local shop once started as either a full timer and or a key timer.

Some of these have moved onto greater things inside Games Workshop some have move outside, It comes down to this if you really want to work for Games Workshop then do it, I got a degree and a couple of other qualifications before I went for my present job (not GW).

It always good to have a second string to your bow, the only thing I would say is it seems that a number of staff are leaving / been made redundant recently. This can be said of many industries so I wouldn't let that stop you, its just a factor to be taken into account.

Good luck.

Yodhrin
25-04-2006, 11:47
And I intend to be in that minority. Seriously, how many times do I have to repeat myself before people will listen? I should have worded my intial post better, sure, but I made it clear on page 2 that college is NOT AN OPTION.

If someone is terrible at a certain type of job, not just on the "could do better" level but the "absolutely cannot cope with the environment and will never change" level, would you constantly advise them to try it? No, because all it would result in is failure and more blows to their confidence. That is the situation with me and education; Ive TRIED college, and it ended up the same way as it did in school, ie, I couldnt concentrate on any of the subjects because, even though they interested me, I CANT study any one thing for too long, at least not in the way it's done in the UK, I freaked out during exams and my hobbies made me a target for every chav loser in a ten mile radius. I REFUSE to put myself through four years of that crap for the sake of a few extra grand a year, when instead I could go great guns for a career at GW and not only earn money but have job satisfaction.

If I HAVE to get qualifications in the future, I will study in my own time, on my own terms, ie do distance learning in my spare time. But I am NOT going back to college, some people are just not wired for it, and Im one of them.

Now, thank you to those of you who have actually bothered to answer my questions instead of just belittling me. Is the cronyism at GW really that prevalent? I mean is there no way to advance based on merit, do you just have to suck up and hope an area manager or someone at HQ takes a shine to you?

Ithilkir
25-04-2006, 12:23
Being someone who also couldn't stand education (dropped out of Uni and College) and I'm now unemployed (go me! :/ ) after being made redundant. I'm now 27 and if I could go back to college/uni I would. However, I look back and know my mental focus wasn't there when I was younger and regardless of what I did I would have wasted my time in education. You WILL likely get a desire to get a piece of paper at some point, but that will come. If it's not an option now then go back to it when (not if... when, you will change) you're feeling more confident and happier about education. Until then, get a job, it might pay pennies, but it's better than the job centre. I dont know how old you are, but if living with parents then make sure you save as much money as possible. It's way to easy to **** your money away when there isn't a lot coming in. Be sensible with it, even with the staff discount at GW do you REALLY need those new xxxxx?

Do what makes you happy, but dont discount the future, keep money back for future education. Trust me, the time will come when you will say "I wish..." but like yourself, I couldn't handle the education system in the UK so I have to accept my lack of qualifications and work away with what I can get.

Hlokk
25-04-2006, 12:31
Yodhrin, you say in your first post you want "proper work" and not some part time thing. What about applying for a keytime position with GW and getting a position somewhere else? That way you get better wages, more money to spend on your discount and actually might be able to afford things.

As for cronyism, its a factor in any work environment. In a situation where every decision is made or ratified by the manager, there is going to be a large degree of subjectivity to it. For example, at my old local store, the guy who had been there the longest and who knew the place inside out was the obvious choice for the next manager, unfortunately, they got some muppet from the trainee management programme who was a friend of the assistant managers.

Basically, cronyism depends completely on the professionalism of the manager. If he is a professional, you should have no trouble.

Also, just so you are aware, managers and such seem to be expected to relocate at the drop of a hat. I've known one manager go from north england to surry, to the midlands and then to scotland in the space of 4 years. There is a dispensation if you have dependents (kids and a wife), but if your young and single, expect to be moving a lot.

Imus
25-04-2006, 13:40
With regards to your situation, i have a friend who works for GW, he started off as a key timer and wwas at college, he was quite an enthaustic person and generally a very nice guy. He decided college wasn't for him and left and began working full time for GW and then quite shortly after that went for his team leader position and got it. It seems to me that GW is quite happy to take people on as long as they show the commettment and professionalism required, most of its is just basic common sense. But if you want to go for it do then. The only problem i found was that working for GW killed the hobby off for me slightly and really i needed a break, but all in all i enjoyed working there and maybe go back once ive finshed my degree.

Dr.Chud
25-04-2006, 14:09
GW retail and GW studio are like two different planets. In other words, getting into the studio from the retail world would probably require astronaut like skills, tireless self sacrifice and some luck. oh and dont make any enemies or get anyone jealous of you.

I can only really comment on the parts of the organization I saw firsthand, a retail cell in the states and also US HQ. If you arent an old timer (i.e. been with GW since at least the late 80s) they hire a lot of senior folks from similar positions outside the company. In other words, if you want position X at GW, get a postion X job at another company first. If they dont hire you directly into the studio you probably wont get there from retail.

I feel cronyism is a serious problem where I worked. I watched the only really capable manager (who was viewed as a threat by those immediately above him) get constantly marginalized and eventually fired for doing something his boss had asked him to do. He was then replaced by the former roommate/good friend of the guy who fired him.

because they tend to only hire dedicated hobbyists they like to use this as an excuse to treat the employees poorly, after all you are "getting paid to play games". To be honest I had a lot more fun and games working at a department store.

NakedFisherman
25-04-2006, 14:18
Don't listen to everyone saying college is a requirement -- it's not. It helps a lot, but if it's not for you then you better hope you have some skills.

Hlokk
25-04-2006, 14:26
Don't listen to everyone saying college is a requirement -- it's not. It helps a lot, but if it's not for you then you better hope you have some skills.
I'd agree with that. I know plenty of people without degrees and mastetrs, who have done better than those who have worked for years in education.

The most important thing is, and has always been, to make sure your doing what makes you happy first and foremost.

Anyway, isnt this whole Higher education/non higher education thing grossly off topic?

SuperBeast
25-04-2006, 14:40
I dont intend to stay retail forever, but Im not sure where I would go in the company, as I dont see myself as "management material", in that I certainly enjoy being "in charge", but generally dont handle it well(nothing sucks worse than working for a bossy, controlling ****, which is exactly what I become if I gain too much responsibility :p), so that tip about grabbing any available jobs to get noticed is handy.
I respect your decision, but I'm a little confused as to how you could have made your mind up so utterly without knowing what you're doing... still, here goes..

If you're not management material, there's very little you could do within the company above retail. (Studio excluded).
You don't get 'invited' to work for the studio, sculptors and painters/artists excluded. You apply. They interview.
One of my friends worked for the studio for about 8 months (got made redundant). He had reams of examples of his own rules/writing etc., and I have yet to meet anyone else with the same innate grasp of rule mechanics (not playing, writing) as him. There were around 3000 applicants for that job, and a large number of them were staff. He wasn't.

GW advertise a number of HQ roles internally (HR, product production, art dept & WD production staff are some of the ones I've seen), but that's simply a gratuity - they'll advertise externally as well, and you'll need the qualifications. Simply being a black shirt doesn't mean you're higher up the pile.

As for the 'cronyism', yes. Having friends in high places is an immense help. It is anywhere you go.

But essentially, unless you are a daemon at either a) painting b) sculpting or c) selling, you'll have a really, really, really tough time moving beyond retail. Even tougher if you don't "see yourself as management material".

Pravus
25-04-2006, 15:14
Things I know from previous employees:

1. Working for GW hurts your hobby love - in some cases terminally.
2. GW frequently and repeatedly take the p!ss with their staff; that includes pay, working conditions, holidays and promotion. GW really do think they are doing you a favour by letting you work "in the hobby".
3. Hard work and diligence is not enough. Neither are qualifications, ironically. Who you know is everything - ass kissing is an essential tool.
4. GW expect absolute, unquestioning loyalty from their staff whilst being duplicitous and treacherous in their dealings in return.
5. At a time when GW profits are falling and the company's recent cull of keytimers and shop hours, now would seem to be a bad time to decide to join the company for a long term career.

Whilst I appreciate your commitment to your decision, yohdrin, can I ask what you plan to do if you CAN'T get a job with GW?

Yodhrin
25-04-2006, 17:20
I do have enough prior experiance and some qualifications with computing, so I can go for Tech Support work if all else fails(I will only do that if I reach the stage where the cell manager is reporting me for stalking him due to the continual begging :p You think working for GW is bad? Try explaining to the average person a simple computing task like PLUGGING THE DAMN THING IN BEFORE YOU CALL DOWN I.T. because "it's like, broken"!).

Thanks for all the advice so far, the thread seems to be getting going nicely now. What's the support like for new employees who have to move city for their placement? Ive missed the round of recruitment for Scotland this year, so Ill likely be sent down south or across to Ireland if get a job, and I dont fancy trying to find a flatshare in a city I know absolutely nothing about without someone to at least give me a few pointers.

I did consider going for Keytime work and getting another part-time job to make up the hours, but someone already mentioned the layoffs recently, so if I intend this to be a long-term career going straight for a full time position would appear to be the more secure option. Plus, as I said above, finding accomodation and so on is going to be bad enough, finding a second job quickly enough to support myself, in the same area, would be bloody difficult, especially if they dont give me much notice before I have to leave.

Hlokk
25-04-2006, 17:41
To be honest, I have no idea what the support is for moving, however, when I was at Corus, there were different schemes in place for the graduates and management, and the people working on the shop floor. Basically, graduates and management were allowed to take out a 1000 interest free loan from the company and pay it back at 100 per month. In addition, I was often sent to call estate agents, view houses and other such banal nonsence. People on the shop floor were told "sort yourselves out"

I suspect this may be the case with GW. GW have always demonstrated, from an outsiders perspective, a very cavalleer attitude to their staff, so I suspect that you'll probably get a list of estate agents, and that'll be it. Any more in depth help will probably be down to your store manager.

Batou
25-04-2006, 17:52
I'm going to say something different to everyone else...

Right I quit half way through a law degree after a fall out with a tutor, I ended up staying working at the pub I was working at for 3 years and got moved up to assistant manager level. After that I moved into retail at a Gamestation, which is a computer games shop as an assistant manager. After a year of that, I was still an assistant manager, the manager didn't want to move up, the company had no plans to put a new store in the region, so i was stuck, and the people below me who wanted my job were stuck.

I moved cities with my Girlfriend so she could go to uni, the man management experience I'd gained got me a cracking job at a social research company, after 2 years of that, I'm back at Uni, being paid by an engineering firm, a large amount of money, twice what I was on at GS, plus company car, to train to become a quantity surveyor/project manager, and 'm about there now.

All I'm saying is don't go into GW with a view of staying there, work hard, get promoted learn the ropes, take that experience elsewhere, always try to move up. I have lots of friends who are grads and I earn more then most of them, and I'm being paid to finish my degree, oh and no matter how big the GW discount is, its nowt to earning a good wage in the first place.

Ithilkir
25-04-2006, 19:56
I do have enough prior experiance and some qualifications with computing, so I can go for Tech Support work if all else fails(I will only do that if I reach the stage where the cell manager is reporting me for stalking him due to the continual begging :p You think working for GW is bad? Try explaining to the average person a simple computing task like PLUGGING THE DAMN THING IN BEFORE YOU CALL DOWN I.T. because "it's like, broken"!).Btw, good luck in getting an IT job without at least an HND in Computing here :) The odd module doesn't count for crap as I've found out over the last seven years trying to get IT work in Fife, Aberdeen and Edinburgh :)

RevEv
25-04-2006, 20:13
Is the cronyism at GW really that prevalent? I mean is there no way to advance based on merit, do you just have to suck up and hope an area manager or someone at HQ takes a shine to you?

To put it in a word.

Yes

It happens in any job - there are few careers where one advances through merit alone. It is very much a case of not only what you know but who you know as well.

And now let me apologise for upsetting you about college - I do understand (honest). As a former teacher I agree that the way that education is approached in this country does not suit everyone, but there is a lot to be said about further education through something like OU. I can think of several friends who did further education at a later stage (including one who returned to the school he left with no qualifications to go down the mines as part of his teacher training). In fact it is positively encouraged in my current job. I think all that I would say, and probably everyone else who has posted 'stay in education' replies, is don't write of education at a later date .... My last college stint was fantastic, and I'm now doing more study as well as working.

The Ape
25-04-2006, 20:27
There is a certain amount of sucking up with any job. I didnt find GW any different and not as bad as people suggest. I think there's a balance between being good and sucking up - the better you are the less suckage, the crapper you are, the more suckage.

Then again, I thought my cell manager was a bit crap at his job and didnt know the first thing about management, so i didnt feel particularly inclined to suck up to him. He was a nice guy outside of his job - even if he did look like a garden gnome...

If you are really intent on making a go of it, then do it - the only thing worse than failing is being too scared to try.

Persephone
25-04-2006, 20:34
Don't be a fool, stay in school!

Satan
25-04-2006, 21:45
I recently applied for a position as an outrider and got contacted by a very nice and friendly lady. Will be going up to stockholm/gothenburg later this summer for educational purposes.

Archaon
25-04-2006, 23:48
I'll be interested to hear from Yodhrin in a year or two from now if he gets to work for GW.

Honestly.. why do you react so violently when someone who's been with GW suggests you get better schooling?
It doesn't have to be university degrees... there are tons of alternatives but you dismiss every one of them and get angry because you are dead set on a career when everybody tells you that there's little room for real advancement within GW (especially now that they seem to be in trouble).

One other thing i can't understand.. the whole discount stuff. If you already earn minimum wage doesn't this go mostly to supporting oneself, i.e. rent, clothing, food etc. before one begins to think about how to spend the meagre rest of the money if there is a rest at all?
I buy stuff for my hobbies only when i have money to blow.. i do ok for myself. I'm not getting rich and i'm not poor but if i would work as an untrained guy for a company and couldn't afford life without a roommate i'd be thinking very long and hard if a GW career would be the right thing.

Unless you can pull strings within a company, i.e. big contacts through daddy or an aquaintance and get a start at a higher level you'll have to work from the bottom up.
This is ok since most of the people start there but then they get a normal wage (depending on the company) and they can live off it.
Doesn't seem you can do this with a GW wage...

purplehoob
26-04-2006, 08:55
Here are some facts, I have friends who work/ worked at Games Workshop. Remember I say that if you want to work there then do it, don't let anyone put you off. But like any job you can't approach it with your eyes closed.

Moving you, they tend to only move managers, thats not to say you won't get moved but managers only get left for a couple of years in any one place. They can move you at a whim, one manager I know moved shops in 4 days, here on a Friday somewhere else on a Tuesday. Bigger shop more money, he was pleased, girlfriend wasn't though.

Staff discount, it's large for a reason, saves the company supplying new minatures to the shop, if you buy the new stuff and who wouldn't saves them supplying a set free to the shop. You paint up your own stuff and the manager asks you to bring it in to use.

Anything you create for the game system can and probally will be taken by them, even if you did it when you were on the toilet in your own house.

You need to ask yourself do you really love this hobby, can you live on about 10,000 ish a year, you can't eat the models you buy or sell them on until you leave their company. It all depends on the manager you get, a good manager then you are laughing get a bad one and whoops.

I look forward to seeing you in one of the shops, I visit a few in Scotland.

William Moran
26-04-2006, 11:35
Age GW Retail : No education Any other job: Graduate
0 00,000.00 00,000.00
1 00,000.00 00,000.00
2 00,000.00 00,000.00
3 00,000.00 00,000.00
4 00,000.00 00,000.00
5 00,000.00 00,000.00
6 00,000.00 00,000.00
7 00,000.00 00,000.00
8 00,000.00 00,000.00
9 00,000.00 00,000.00
10 00,000.00 00,000.00
11 00,000.00 00,000.00
12 00,000.00 00,000.00
13 00,000.00 00,000.00
14 00,000.00 00,000.00
15 00,000.00 00,000.00
16 00,000.00 00,000.00
17 10,000.00 00,000.00
18 10,200.00 00,000.00
19 10,404.00 00,000.00
20 10,612.08 00,000.00
21 10,824.32 00,000.00
22 11,040.81 22,000.00
23 11,261.62 23,000.00
24 11,486.86 24,000.00
25 11,716.59 25,000.00
26 11,950.93 26,000.00
27 12,189.94 27,000.00
28 12,433.74 28,000.00
29 12,682.42 29,000.00
30 12,936.07 30,000.00
31 13,194.79 31,000.00
32 13,458.68 32,000.00
33 13,727.86 33,000.00
34 14,002.41 34,000.00
35 14,282.46 35,000.00
36 14,568.11 36,000.00
37 14,859.47 37,000.00
38 15,156.66 38,000.00
39 15,459.80 39,000.00
40 15,768.99 40,000.00
41 16,084.37 41,000.00
42 16,406.06 42,000.00
43 16,734.18 43,000.00
44 17,068.86 44,000.00
45 17,410.24 45,000.00
46 17,758.45 46,000.00
47 18,113.62 47,000.00
48 18,475.89 48,000.00
49 18,845.41 49,000.00
50 19,222.31 50,000.00
51 19,606.76 51,000.00
52 19,998.90 52,000.00
53 20,398.87 53,000.00
54 20,806.85 54,000.00
55 21,222.99 55,000.00
56 21,647.45 56,000.00
57 22,080.40 57,000.00
58 22,522.00 58,000.00
59 22,972.44 59,000.00
60 23,431.89 60,000.00
61 23,900.53 61,000.00
62 24,378.54 62,000.00
63 24,866.11 63,000.00
64 25,363.44 64,000.00
65 25,870.70 65,000.00
66 26,388.12 66,000.00
67 26,915.88 67,000.00
68 27,454.20 68,000.00
69 28,003.28 69,000.00
70 28,563.35 70,000.00

GW Retail : No education Any other job: Graduate
Total life earnings 956,730.72 2,254,000.00

The difference between jobs is living with your parents and using the bus or owning a nice house and having a new car every five years

Satan
26-04-2006, 11:55
But that's retail, I mean take a look at Walmart or Barnes & Noble for example...

Yodhrin
26-04-2006, 14:33
Look, for the love of crimeny will all you pro-education whiners just go away and stop derailing my thread?

How many times do I have to tell you people that higher education IS NOT AN OPTION, and that I HAVE looked into all of them! The next person to keep ranting on at me with this rubbish is going to be reported to the mods for deliberately derailing a thread. I "react violently" because each time someone drags the same thing up again, you are bloody well insulting me by ignoring my continued assertions that I HAVE considered this properly, you are assuming that I am too stupid to make my own decisions. For the absolutely last time; I did not start this thread to solicit advice on attaining an education. I had more than enough "when I were a lad"-style speaches on the subject from my family, who dont seem to understand the concept of individual thought. I started the thread to get advice on getting a job with Games Workshop, which thankfully at least some of you are willing to do without questioning or bellittling me.

William:

Any future qualifications I may need for advancement within the company can be achieved quickly through distance learning, and regardless makes the assumption that any position which grants a decent salary is entirely dependant on me having a degree to attain, which is total nonsense.

Regardless, I consider cars to be a massive waste of money("Oh look, I can go straight to the door of somewhere rather than walking 20 paces from a bus stop, and it only costs me a quarter of my wages every month! Go me!"), and I think that if students can manage to rent flats on the strength of bursary payments and a couple of days a week behind a bar, I should be able to manage on a retail salary.

As to selling GW models while working for them...that's true, but are there any bans on staff producing their own miniatures from scratch for sale? If my sculpting skills continue to improve at the rate they have been, I feel I could produce sellable models of my own within a couple of years, which could be an interesting way to suppliment my income and potentially get me noticed by the studio or another mini company(I love GW's IP, but if a chance comes up to actually produce models for a living it doesnt matter which company its at; Im there). Providing I dont associate them with GW in any way I cant see why they would have an objection, but then the lawyers who craft all these rules generally dont think like sane people :p

Gaebriel
26-04-2006, 14:47
... stop derailing ...

... I "react violently" because each time someone drags the same thing up again, you are bloody well insulting me by ignoring my continued assertions that I HAVE considered this properly, you are assuming that I am too stupid to make my own decisions. ...

... or bellittling me. ...
Are you sure you want a career in a company where, after all I hear, you may have to polish other people shoes while they use you as their doormat, when you're as sensitive and non-understanding towards the intention of some people posting here?

Zzarchov
26-04-2006, 15:39
@Gaebriel: well this is his free time, you want him to be a doormat pay him.

@Yodhrin:

Now it is time for you to stop acting like everyone else is dumb too. While you are correct and can make a living, even a good living without a post secondary (someone has to do those jobs).
Working in Retail is not a good way, Working in Games Workshop is a terrible way, you have heard this from its past employees.

While you may be able to survive NOW on retail salary things will change. AS the nice things you have accrued in your youth break down you will be unable to replace them. Eventually you will get older and need medication which you will be unable to afford (full time prescriptions start on average at 32 I believe it was? been awhile since I looked at that particular graph).

So it is blantantly clear if you want to make a living you can either work in a factory for descent money, or you can work in normal retail and HOPE TO GOD you get a promotion to manager, or you can work in GW and get fired once you get old and run down enough that the managers feel you creep out new parents bringing their kids in.


Education for many people can be nothing but a way to accrue a huge debt which ruins your life. I have seen this happen to MANY people (not everyone can get a great post-secondary job..there are only so many out there and someone needs to do the crap jobs).

But GW is the worst company to work for. This has been put in big flashing letters by everyone who has worked there. You wanted an answer, there it is, but you keep trying to wait for a better answer when really the thread is done and should be locked.

purplehoob
26-04-2006, 16:09
In my posts I have tried to be objective and impartial however I have never worked at Games Worshop but have a few friends who have. I frankly make more money than the manager of the local shop, roughly 14,000 for him, roughly 22,000 for me.

I have friends who work in a factory who earn more than him, for less hours, but if thats the way you want to go then why ask for advice, it seems to me you are not going to listen to anyone.

Go ahead work for Games Workshop, paint models get paid to play games, clean up the store, wash the windows and take your headache tablets on a Saturday and give good customer service.

It would be best for everyone if they just stopped giving any advice good or bad as you seem to have made up your mind. Good luck and I hope it turns out for you, however I have my doubt's but I will keep to facts for now.

Ithilkir
26-04-2006, 16:45
think that if students can manage to rent flats on the strength of bursary payments and a couple of days a week behind a bar, I should be able to manage on a retail salary.Most students also end up over 10k in debt after three years.

Rick_1138
26-04-2006, 17:44
the best idea, is to work for a year or two, get your discount, make amies up, paint them and e-bay them, staff is not supposed to, but apparently you are selling a paint job, not a model!!

so pay is poor but if you know what you are doing, you are quids in, then leave and get a real job.

I am anbout to finish 4th year business admin at uni, but am considering a managers position at GW for a couple o years to get some real life experience, e-bay my way to a fair wedge, then take my hons degree and get a really well paid job!!

Satan
26-04-2006, 17:46
Just take the job, and when you want to study - emigrate to sweden. It's free here and you don't have to pay any tuition fees at all.

I think you'll do good. Working for a change as opposed to studying is what I'd want to do right now. Hey, I am!

People working in factories generally make more money than I do - if they're on shifts and work some nights.

SuperBeast
26-04-2006, 18:45
As to selling GW models while working for them...that's true, but are there any bans on staff producing their own miniatures from scratch for sale?
Yes there are. And painting to order.
I've seen the big stick known as "P45" wielded because of this.

RevEv
26-04-2006, 19:30
Look, for the love of crimeny will all you pro-education whiners just go away and stop derailing my thread?

How many times do I have to tell you people that higher education IS NOT AN OPTION, and that I HAVE looked into all of them! The next person to keep ranting on at me with this rubbish is going to be reported to the mods for deliberately derailing a thread. I "react violently" because each time someone drags the same thing up again, you are bloody well insulting me by ignoring my continued assertions that I HAVE considered this properly, you are assuming that I am too stupid to make my own decisions. For the absolutely last time; I did not start this thread to solicit advice on attaining an education. I had more than enough "when I were a lad"-style speaches on the subject from my family, who dont seem to understand the concept of individual thought. I started the thread to get advice on getting a job with Games Workshop, which thankfully at least some of you are willing to do without questioning or bellittling me.

:p

OK - lets go right back to the beginning ie first post. You, quite rightly in my opinion, request that any anti-GW whiners keep off the thread. As far as I can see they have and, hence, this has been a constructive thread. You did not, at any point in your first thread, request in your oh so friendly manner that pro-educationalists stay away as well (in which case this thread would have been worthless).

However, as the thread has continued you have got more abusive because people have given what you have asked for - advice about careers at GW.... the majority verdict from those who have worked for GW seems to be what you don't want to hear. So why post in the first place?

In my own case I have worked at GW. It was only ever a stop gap job. It was not for mega bucks but to provide some income to help the household bills. My wife provided the money for the motgage, food, entertainment etc.

Since that point I have many jobs includng being a white van man, a gardener, a market stall holder, a supply teacher, unemployed, a full time teacher and now in the army. At the end it is my education that I have fallen back on.

My advice (and please read before speaking to the MODS)
a) Get out of education now! You obviously hate it and I would assume it is doing you, your tutors, and your parents (although they probably don't realise it) no good.
b) Get a job you want - GW is a good start but realise there are severe restrictions on what you can do with the models you buy/paint/convert/model whilst in their employ and that, if you breach those rules you will be sacked. Despite everything GW jobs are oversubscribed so, subsequently, GW can choose their staff.
c) Accept that you will be very lucky to advance up the company.
d) When YOU are ready look at what further education you want to do, this could be in the next year, or next decade, or never.
e) Calm down - with a temper such as you have displayed so far you will not last long at a GW store. If you thought the teasing at college was bad wait until you've worn the uniform!

Corporal Punishment
26-04-2006, 19:49
From just reading this thread it seems to me that the original poster has had a bit of a time with school thus far. He says others have picked on him, he didn't like the subjects, etc, etc... Those points are important in my opinion because I was in the same situation at the end of my high school career. I think the word is disenchanted. I was disenchanted with the whole process!

Anyway, the young man wants to work for GW. I say he should if that is what he feels like he should do. He's got his youth and plenty of time to figure out if he likes the job or to change his mind.

I'll offer this advice....as you get older and you develop the skills that adult life allows you to develop your outlook on everything changes. Don't be so set against furthering your education, take some time off from it and think about it. There is no hurry to choose either path. At the end of the day it is important to have a job that you enjoy and can be happy with. And it doesn't matter where or what that job is. What matters is that you are happy.

I'm an degreed professional that didn't graduate college until 27. I wasn't sure if I could endure it or if it was even worth it at the time. Really, no one does (that is one of the things that I wish someone would have told me at the time!).

Exterminatus
26-04-2006, 19:51
I dont care if I get reported to the mods, you asked for advice, so I will give you MY advice learnt through bitter experience:

GW pay minimum wages. Eventually I bought my own house, and you will REALLY be struggling to pay the bills, let alone buying miniatures / clothing.

I too despised college and Uni, try to study part time - less work, less annoying little kids. Everyone there is there for a REASON. WHy do I see so many 30 - 50 years old in my class? Because they NEED an education.

To sum it up
+ you get to work for something you really like
+ You'll have fun, which is one of the msot important things in life
+ the staff discount
+ you work with people which is good for your social skills

- If you want to buy / rent a house, you will be hard pressed to pay the bills
- you're love for the hobby might die away
- I dont like school is not an valid argument
- YOu will eventually want to earn more money, which is usually gained by studying / having a degree

Because I dont have a degree, I lied on my resume. I am VERY fortunate to have the Job I have now, but am studying part time. Even if I get fired, I will have something to fall back on.

Report me to the mods whatever you like. You want my advice? I give it to you and you report me to the mods :rolleyes:

Hashut's Li'l Helper
26-04-2006, 20:13
It's true, getting an education s**ks.
The only thing worse than that is working 40 hours a week for crap wages at a job you hate. Compared to that education is a cakewalk.

Of course the only way to learn that is to do it for a couple of years.:(

gathering_darkness
26-04-2006, 20:16
To be honest, you really do not want to be in education, i can agree with that.
You want to work in a company that has some chance for advancement i can agree with that.
You want to try to live on 10,000 p/a i'd like to see you try anywhere in the South on that money, but thats immaterial.

You have obviously thought long and hard about your decision thats why you are defending it so venomously i can agree with that.

However..... Have you considered the alternatives to a career in GW that does not involve further education and has a better chance of advancement, such as a "trade" ie Electrician, Carpenter, anything in building, Butchery,
something where you can advance yourself and earn money at the same time, if you have considered this and dismissed it for your own reasons then thats fair enough.

Back on topic: You want to get ahead then you have to suck up, make sure you get yourself noticed by insinuating yourself as your boss' number 1 employee.

Anyway, goodluck with your career.

Archaon
26-04-2006, 20:18
Ah well..

let him take this crappy job and make his own experience. When he returns home to his crappy appartment with the idiot roommate after he had to be nice to a bunch of 13 year ******** for the entire day because their parents pay for everything and he has to wonder which bills to pay first i believe he'll start thinking.

Obviously he doesn't want negative advice since it runs contrary to his grand plan of becoming GW boss someday.. the proverbial "rise from the bottom" selfmade career he seems to romanticize without any learned skills and just work experience.

His eyes will be opened fast by realities of life and soon he'll be mid 30s, a small manager at GW whereas his friends are planning to buy houses, have had kids (or planning to) and are flexible with their cars whereas he can't afford all that.

I agree with the notion that he should stop schooling now because it really does him no good but why the need to work for GW? I can understand that it is very tempting to work for them because you work in a field you really like but the dynamic changes when you have to do it for a living.
I have phases where i don't touch a mini for weeks because i'm fed up.. at GW this option doesn't exist.

The only thing GW has going for is that it is relatively easy to get a job with them.. you just have to be a normal guy with some knowledge about the games. That's all the skills you need.. the problem is that those are a dime a dozen and from what i hear GW has a very loose trigger finger and tends to fire their staff very quickly.

You seem to have a rather easily aroused temper when someone is telling you things you don't want to hear.. good luck with that at retail and customer service. I've had to deal sometimes with dumb people over the phone and a few times i was close to losing it and i consider myself very calm.

The Ape
26-04-2006, 21:13
How many times do I have to tell you people that higher education IS NOT AN OPTION, and that I HAVE looked into all of them! The next person to keep ranting on at me with this rubbish is going to be reported to the mods for deliberately derailing a thread. I "react violently" because each time someone drags the same thing up again, you are bloody well insulting me by ignoring my continued assertions that I HAVE considered this properly, you are assuming that I am too stupid to make my own decisions.

If one person calls you a Hutt, ignore them.
If two people call you a Hutt, start wondering.
If three people call you a Hutt, start smoking a hookah and smuggling spice.

My point? People are telling you this because they have been in a similar position to you and are trying to HELP you. If you want to go report them to the mods for that, then go ahead. But that kind of behaviour will not make you any friends and alienate people.


Any future qualifications I may need for advancement within the company can be achieved quickly through distance learning, and regardless makes the assumption that any position which grants a decent salary is entirely dependant on me having a degree to attain, which is total nonsense.

Acheived quickly? A degree through Open University takes at least 4 years. In your spare time.

A degree isnt everything but it sure does help.


I think that if students can manage to rent flats on the strength of bursary payments and a couple of days a week behind a bar, I should be able to manage on a retail salary.

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. Students rent student flats - not full rate non-student flats. They are cheap cos they tend to be poor quality flats.

GW retail salary is 10.5k pa (if you are over 21, less if you are younger I believe) - after tax thats about 730.00.


As to selling GW models while working for them...that's true, but are there any bans on staff producing their own miniatures from scratch for sale? If my sculpting skills continue to improve at the rate they have been, I feel I could produce sellable models of my own within a couple of years, which could be an interesting way to suppliment my income and potentially get me noticed by the studio or another mini company(I love GW's IP, but if a chance comes up to actually produce models for a living it doesnt matter which company its at; Im there).

The restrictive covenants in GW's contract of employment are strict. ANYTHING you design relating to GW in work time becomes the property of GW. Could even include in your own time but I have since disposed of my contract so I dont recall the exact wording.

See the thread by the dude who wrote the (excellent) Liber Chaotica books for an example of GW's restrictive covenants.

stonedrose
26-04-2006, 21:24
I "react violently" because each time someone drags the same thing up again, you are bloody well insulting me by ignoring my continued assertions that I HAVE considered this properly, you are assuming that I am too stupid to make my own decisions. For the absolutely last time; I did not start this thread to solicit advice on attaining an education.

I posted earlier in this thread, it was not a pro-education post, but I gave a balanced view on working for GW. However, I am pro-education as I have achieved a lot through it.

Your initial post seemed to ask for balanced opinions and a view on GW as a career option, the view which seems to come across now is that you know best, regardless of others views. If you want people to be sychophantic ask for it, otherwise you will not get it.

Regardless of this I think this thread has revealed a lot and I hope that those CONSIDERING a GW career read it, as it may help them. Those who have already decided may also gain.

I hope your career goes where you want it to, the odds are stacked against you because of your attitude, if that comes across in GW you won't last 5 minutes. You have a very high opinion of yourself, once again I hope this is correct, for your sake.

Oh, and to get back to people winding you up about your hobby, working for GW is the best way to make this worse, so get used to it.

Once again good luck for the future

simonr1978
26-04-2006, 21:30
A degree through the OU will also cost you, big time. I started one but only got a couple of modules into it before having to pack it up through lack of funds. Even something like a part time HNC in Kent will cost you around 600 plus text books and stationery costs on top. How are you planning on paying for this? I'm not trying to fan the flames here but it is worth considering.

An OU degree if that's the route you plan on going down will easily cost you a few thousand pounds, and as you will be in full time employment you can expect next to no assistance with costs.

Adult Education costs money, it's something you really don't appreciate untill you come to look into paying for it yourself.

Education now isn't for you clearly, I was in a similar position when I was 18, I dragged my feet through my A-levels just passed two then left education to join the Army. I lasted 2 months before deciding I hated it and left to drift for the next ten years and I still haven't really figured out what I want to do, but there would have been no point me following my mates to uni since I had no interest whatsoever in going down that route.

I would say, look seriously into the costs of living. Where I live even renting a two bed flat is going to set you back around 400 a month, then you have council tax, water, electricity, phone, TV licence, gas. Seriously most of your wages are going to be gone by the time you even begin to think about food let alone what to do with the staff discount.

If you're still adamant you want to do this then go for it, but try not to pigeon hole yourself into such a small niche industry, sooner or later you almost certainly will want or need some form of career advancement or money to spend on other things.

Rick_1138
26-04-2006, 21:58
i agree with simonr1978, as i posted earlier i am just finishing my degree, this is not a dig saying (ha ha i have one you don't) its simply something i wnated to do inlife, took 6 years by the way.....anyhoo, i went for a part-time job at GW (before the key time layoff obviously..phew).

I apparently came across really well in the interview and was offered a managers postion when i graduate, though graduation was not the selling point, i had a good attitude to staff, i am friendly with everyone at the shop, not just my friends, and i have a genuine enjoyment of the hobby, as i am sure you do.

What is interesting is my mate, who used to manage the GW liverpool store, he says that it is not worth it cash wise, in any other retail manager role in the UK you will earn more, hands down!!

However the same mate also said it could be a really good experience, i will have some fun and obviously get the discount.

My basic advice would be, if you want a full time job in GW and can get one, go for it if you want. if you like it and find the money adequate, enjoy.

If you find its not for you or you may see a job that your experience at GW would qualify you for, then you can go for that. there is no path to your life!

Hey you think this decision is worrying, my tutor at uni said that the average person has 7 CAREERS in their lifetime...eeek.

But i am still tempted by the manager position at GW, even iff for a couple years, and you never know, you might find you never need a higer education, through my business course i have found there are hundreds of examples of people who have made it big, without more than a few GCSE's, a degree helps, but it does not make you.

A good personality and lots of bloody hard work will get you anywhere!

Good luck to ya mate!

swordwind
26-04-2006, 23:11
I'm relativly new here but I'll throw my 2c in with an outsiders view

If you really really want a job in GW then do it. Noone here or anywhere can stop you. You'll probably be happy. You could even become manager.

But when 30 years from now you look back, trapped in a low paying job with little to no prospects of advancement you'll wish you'd done those 4 years. A guy in my English class was a genious writer. Literally. He got 4A*s in his GCSEs for English alone. But he deciced to go straight into work rather than continue into college. Now he works in WHSmith as a stock jockey. In the scale of things whats 4 years out of 80+? You would even work in GW whilst your there. And when your done then you can get the job at GW. Which is more hirable? Joe Bloggs off the street with a passion for the hobby or John Doe with a passion for the hobby and a degree in X? The atmosphere in Uni is completely different to school/college. When you have to pay to take the course the idiots who are only there for the EMA suddenly pack up thier bag of tricks and leave.

Everyone who has tried to talk you out of it is doing so because they want to help. Ultimatly it is your decision to make.

I just want to offer my advice and help. Report me if you want.

Yodhrin
27-04-2006, 00:08
Forget it. Ive saved the posts of the few people who actually bothered to answer my requests, the rest of you evidently aren't willing to listen when I ask you to stop repeating the same damn thing about getting an education over and over, and there's no point in this just running around in circles.