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Farseer Il`uvatar
24-04-2006, 19:31
So, I've seen this group of chapters mentioned off-hand numerous times, but no real information given and only a few members listed. Does anyone know more? Could a homemade chapter be a member?

Il`uvatar

Pilgrim
24-04-2006, 20:46
The Adeptus Astartes Praesus as a group of chapters received their first mention (as far as I am aware) in the 13th Black Crusade event a while back. They are a group of 20 chapters which were formed to provide extra security in the areas close to the Eye of Terror.

There are a number of chapters in this group mentioned, namely: Subjugators (a fleet based unit, which suffered heavy losses in orbital engagements during the Black Crusade), Relictors, Excoriators, Marines Exemplar, Night Watch and White Consuls (possibly an error on the White Consuls, I seem to remember them being a much older chapter).

That gives 7 of them, so there are 13 other chapters of them which you can feel free to invent as you wish.

Given that they were founded with the purpose of bolstering Imperial defences around the Eye of Terror, I would expect these chapters to be fleet based, since they are likely to be reassigned on a fairly frequent basis. They are also likely to be used for pre-emptive strikes on worlds bordering Imperial space in attempts to keep the forces of the Ruinous Powers off balance. As a result they are likely to use less heavy vehicles, and be more geared towards rapid deployments and extraction (raiding forces, rather than a battleforce). Admittedly this is the standard modus operandi for any Adeptus Astartes unit, but I would have thought that the Adeptus Astartes Praesus would have specialised to an even greater extent in this area.

Given their primary purpose, I would have also imagined that they work closely with the Imperial Army, Adeptus Mechanicus, and any other military organisations in the area. They would be less independant than some other Adeptus Astartes chapters, given the need to provide a co-ordinated defence. This ties into my point about them specialising to a greater degree in archetypal Space Marine tactics, since they can afford to do so. They can rely on other Imperial organisations to cover the other battlefield roles, leaving them free to focus on what they are best at, terror raids and disruption strikes.

They may well also be more linked to the Inquisition than many other chapters, given the proximity to the Eye of Terror, and thus the greater Inquisitorial presence and scrutiny. They are also likely to be some of the more zealous chapters, given that they are (as a result of their location) more aware of the threat from the Ruinous Powers. Consequently they will have a clear focus for the anger, hatred and revulsion towards the Ruinous Powers that is part of the Credo Imperialis.

This is all the information I can find (and for much of it, make guesses) at the moment.

Hopefully it helps a little.

Adrian

Brother Othorio
25-04-2006, 02:17
There are a number of chapters in this group mentioned, namely: Subjugators (a fleet based unit, which suffered heavy losses in orbital engagements during the Black Crusade), Relictors, Excoriators, Marines Exemplar, Night Watch and White Consuls (possibly an error on the White Consuls, I seem to remember them being a much older chapter).


true, the White Consuls are a Primogenitor chapter, but its actually never been stated that all 20 chapters were created at the same time.. its possible they were created batches, or that new chapters have been created to replace Praeses chapters that have gone renegade or been destroyed

Tynesh
25-04-2006, 03:35
By my wise reckoning they were created during the 22nd Founding, the first after the Age of Apostacy and disasters of the 21st or cursed founding. The 22nd Founding occurred around 300.M36 and will have included the aforementioned 20 chapters of the Adeptus Praseus. It is reasonable to assue that there were around another 20 chapters also created at this time that were not part of the forces stationed around the EoT.

The Adeptus Praseus would be an interesting theme for a chapter. Like mentioned above there is also lots of scope to include allied forces in the army too!

Cheers

Tynesh

Ex-guest
25-04-2006, 12:10
@ Brother Othorio
The White Counsuls are 2nd founding, (Ultramarine Decended) not one of the 20 Legions of the 1st Founding. 18 Legions were created and their Primarchs reunited with them.The other two were expunged from imperial records but defenantly neither were the White Consuls.

Unfortunatley Dan Abnett (great author IMHOBTW) used the word Primarch instead of Chapter Master in Malleus. A Silly Billy he is...

Urza
25-04-2006, 12:18
Its also worth noting that the Relictors are now Excommunicae and have been cast out from the Imperium of Man. This casts some doubt over whether they can still be classed as part of the Adeptus Praesus.

Red Scorpion
25-04-2006, 12:47
Weren't the Exorcists part of these too?
Chris

Tarquinn
25-04-2006, 13:45
Its also worth noting that the Relictors are now Excommunicae and have been cast out from the Imperium of Man. This casts some doubt over whether they can still be classed as part of the Adeptus Praesus.
Oh, when did that happen? I always liked those chaps.

Is the chapter still alive, or have they been purged by the Inquisition already? If yes, how thoroughly?

Egfy
25-04-2006, 14:21
@ Brother Othorio
The White Counsuls are 2nd founding, (Ultramarine Decended) not one of the 20 Legions of the 1st Founding. 18 Legions were created and their Primarchs reunited with them.The other two were expunged from imperial records but defenantly neither were the White Consuls.


Actually, Brother Othorio refered to the White Consuls as being a Primogenitor Chapter which is the term used to describe all the 2nd Founding Ultramarines Chapters.

Farseer Il`uvatar
25-04-2006, 16:03
Thanks Pilgrim.

Does the information you have state explicitly the battle doctrines of Adeptus Praesus, or was that your own speculation? I was thinking more defensive than offensive (though, the best defense is a good offense!). The chapter I had in mind is kinda like the White Scars but with Assault marines in place of bikes (i don't like the bike models), so heavy on transports and assault marines and land speeder, and light (though not bereft) on tanks and unmounted troops. All terminators would teleport in. I guess really I didn't want a heavy fleet Chapter, since they would rely on the Imperial Navy; mostly Thunderhawks. I am also planing on using the occasional Inquisitor or Grey Knight (reserved for Chaos battles) allies, and possibly Imperial Guard. And rather than being over-zealous, I was going to go more for a chivalric honor-seeking chapter.

Just thought of something! Why would any Praesus chapter battle anything other than chaos? That would be kinda annoying if I invested a bunch of time and wenergy into fluffing my chapter only to find I had to abondon that fluff to war with most armies! Oh no....

...maybe praesus wont work...

Pilgrim
25-04-2006, 23:30
Thanks Pilgrim.

Does the information you have state explicitly the battle doctrines of Adeptus Praesus, or was that your own speculation?

The battle doctrine and deployment info was all my own supposition. It's not stated explicitly anywhere, so I was just inferring from what is already known about Space Marine operations.



I was thinking more defensive than offensive (though, the best defense is a good offense!). The chapter I had in mind is kinda like the White Scars but with Assault marines in place of bikes (i don't like the bike models), so heavy on transports and assault marines and land speeder, and light (though not bereft) on tanks and unmounted troops. All terminators would teleport in.

I would say, however, that Space Marine units are not really suited for static defensive engagements. That is the forte of the Imperial Army and the Titan Legions, who have the numbers and firepower to carry out battles of attrition. Space Marines certainly can and do operate as part of a static defense, but when they do they are not likely to operate as line troops, but rather as roving units to bolster areas that need extra support, to launch disrupting attacks on enemy rear lines, and so on (basically using a slightly modified form of their offensive doctrine).

With that being said, your chapter organisation you have given would seem to be eminently suited to this kind of defensive support role. They are highly mobile and yet with good firepower (especially at close quarters). The Terminator armoured elemnts would be used for launching the kind of rear echelon strikes and decpaitation raids that would disrupt enemy offensives and thus aid the Imperial Army units (among others) that are holding the defensive positions.

I would also have thought that a chapter organised like yours would use Thunderhawks quite a bit for rapid deployment, another thing that would help them in defensive situations as they gain even greater mobility for rapidly moving to where they are needed.

Essentially, Space Marines on the defensive operate much as they do on the offense, that is, to leave the brunt of the fighting to more numerous branches of the Imperial armed forces, while they take on the role of shock assault and raiding to do things like kill enemy commanders, destroy rear echelon facilites and units, provide extra steel to important areas of the battle and so forth.

If you are envisaging your chapter being a static defense force in itself, then I would have said that its organisation would need to change to one emphasising armoured vehicles and heavy weapon squads. The set-up you have looks more like one that would operate best in the manner already mentioned. If , however, your chapter did function in this way then it would likely be kept as a concentrated force (ie: the whole chapter being deployed at once) alongside other Imperial forces to hold critical objectives, where the extra resilience of Space marine troops is a decisive factor. This would likely mean they would be used to hold urban facilites, where they are not drawing lethal levels of firepower, and where the extra firepower and resilience of Adeptus Aastartes units would be a major factor in any engagement.



I guess really I didn't want a heavy fleet Chapter, since they would rely on the Imperial Navy; mostly Thunderhawks. I am also planing on using the occasional Inquisitor or Grey Knight (reserved for Chaos battles) allies, and possibly Imperial Guard. And rather than being over-zealous, I was going to go more for a chivalric honor-seeking chapter.

That fits fine with the Adeptus Astartes Praesus as I see them. My speculations weren't meant as gospel, and your take on it looks pretty good as well. Fleet based is only one way to go, they could well be planet based on one of the world deemed to need extra defense, and thus having a permanently stationed Space Marine chapter.

The zealotry, also, is something that could be absented. After all, the Grey Knights, despite fighting Chaos all the time, are totally emotionally controlled. Their zeal is expressed in ways other than the way I was thinking of in the original post.


Just thought of something! Why would any Praesus chapter battle anything other than chaos? That would be kinda annoying if I invested a bunch of time and wenergy into fluffing my chapter only to find I had to abondon that fluff to war with most armies! Oh no....

...maybe praesus wont work...

They could well take to battle against other enemies too. They are responsible for the security of the area surrounding the Eye of Terror. That means that any threat, whether from Chaos or not, is to be neutralised. Since it is known that there are at least Eldar and Orks present in the area (along with likely a number of other alien species) that provides at least two other potential adversaries for them.

Imperial worlds near the Eye of Terror are going to come under attack from alien species, just as much (if not more) than the forces of the Ruinous Powers. as a result, the Adeptus Astartes Praesus (and other Imperial forces in the region) probably spend quite a bit of their time fighting off these other threats as well. Just because they were primarily founded as a response to the threat of the Ruinous Powers doesn't mean that is their sole function.

Adeptus Astartes Praesus is a perfectly valid basis for your chapter, with the only sticky point really being the Tau, since they are some distance from the Eye of Terror. Other than that, however, the limitations of their location galxy-wise shouldn't have much impact (although they will constrain your fiction somewhat, should you write any). It won't adversely affect your justification for games, as far as I can see, though.

Adrian

charlie_c67
26-04-2006, 00:38
Incidently, if the Exorcists are a praeses chapter, they aren't there 100% of the time. Some of them were involved in the Badab war...

Captain Gawain
26-04-2006, 00:51
The Sons of Malice chapter was at one time a praeses chapter, but have since gone renegade and hang out at the bottom of a methane ocean if I remember correctly

Brother Othorio
26-04-2006, 02:46
its the Steel Cobras who are entrenched at the bottom of an ocean (an ammonia one), the Sons of Malice fled into the EoT, tho in the *cough* 'chaos' of the 13th Black Crusade its possible they have reclaimed their homeworld

i dont recall ever reading that the Sons of Malice were an Astartes Praesus chapter but it would certainly fit quite well, aside from their location they were also excommunicated only a few centuries before the 26th Founding, the Subjugators are noted as being both an Astartes Praesus chapter AND a recently founded one, assuming recent refers to the 26th (since 25th would put them as at least a millenia old i believe) then it could be that the Subjugators were created as part of the 26th to replace the Sons of Malice

i dont recall ever reading anything to suggest the Exorcists were a Praesus chapter (and they arent noted as such in Codex: Eye of Terror)

Murrithius
26-04-2006, 11:02
Oh, when did that happen? I always liked those chaps.

Is the chapter still alive, or have they been purged by the Inquisition already? If yes, how thoroughly?

I remember reading a story where they got jumped on by a Grey Knight/Inquisition force and were pretty much wiped out. There is, if I recall correctly, about a companies worth left now, and they've legged it somewhere...

Tarquinn
26-04-2006, 11:04
I remember reading a story where they got jumped on by a Grey Knight/Inquisition force and were pretty much wiped out. There is, if I recall correctly, about a companies worth left now, and they've legged it somewhere...
I'd love to read that story.

Do you, or anyone else, have any idea where I might find it?

Murrithius
26-04-2006, 11:10
It's in a WD that came out when Eye of terror finished, sorry, cant remember the number...

Doctor Gonzo
26-04-2006, 12:25
It's in a WD that came out when Eye of terror finished, sorry, cant remember the number...

I think I have the WD at home, I'll try and find it and post the number when I get in from work.

The gist of the story goes that the relictors were found to be using chaos weapons and relics (relictors, geddit?) against the ruinous powers, in a similar vein to radical malleus inquisitors. For this they got their asses excommunicated and now find themselves in the unusual position of considering themselves loyal to the imperium but being tarred as heretics.

The article included rules for using relictors, including equipping them and radical inquisitor allies with daemon weapons.

schoon
26-04-2006, 14:15
I almost hate to muddy the waters any more than they already have been on this topic, But I have something of a ticklish question:

Is there anything that states that chapters don't rotate in or out of this assignment?

Some of the snippets that others have noted above would seem to indicate that while there is a "core" group, some others may rotate into or out of the task, becoming Praesus "members" for a period of time.

Dakkagor
26-04-2006, 14:26
I would imagine, that many chapters treat the title as an honourary, and are simply part of a group that defends the space around the eye of terror when the need arises.

When there is no need, you can deploy your forces elsewhere, and therefore make best use of your powerful fighting force by keeping them practiced and trained. If you just sit around twiddling your thumbs, your going to end up rusty and unable to defeat the real enemy. As such, I image Preseas chapters are willing to deploy at least some of their strength elsewhere, if only to practice combat skills, techniques and to train their scouts.

Doctor Gonzo
26-04-2006, 14:27
Is there anything that states that chapters don't rotate in or out of this assignment?

Some of the snippets that others have noted above would seem to indicate that while there is a "core" group, some others may rotate into or out of the task, becoming Praesus "members" for a period of time.

IIRC, the WD article said nothing about any kind of rotation of duties, but did give the impression that the 20 praesus chapters were created specifically for the task. To me this would suggest that they would be assigned to the task on a permanent basis.

FlashGordon
26-04-2006, 17:52
IIRC, the WD article said nothing about any kind of rotation of duties, but did give the impression that the 20 praesus chapters were created specifically for the task. To me this would suggest that they would be assigned to the task on a permanent basis.


The whole Relictor chapter was engaded at armageddon, so i would guess they are not permanently based around Eot.
...altough they are a most "unruly" chapter eh?

Brother Othorio
26-04-2006, 21:53
The whole Relictor chapter was engaded at armageddon, so i would guess they are not permanently based around Eot.
...altough they are a most "unruly" chapter eh?

its possible that they were relieved of their duties as part of their pennitant crusade, that is: sent as far away from a source of Chaos Relics as possible (since most people dont even know about Angrons invasion of Armageddon its a pretty good bet that most dont know about his monolith..)

Autobot HQ
27-04-2006, 13:17
http://www.redelf.h1.ru/w40k/ci/ci_relictors_extremis_diabolus.html

Said linkage to the Excommunicatus of the Relictors :)