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blackstork
14-02-2012, 13:48
Hello,
when I take LD test from Banshee/Terrorgheist ability, can I use General's Inspiring Presence?

Smogg
14-02-2012, 14:55
You don't take a leadership test from Banshee/Terrorgheist. Its a special attack roll made by your opponent.

You should be able to use Inspiring Presence. (But not Hold your Ground)

JustinDonnelly
14-02-2012, 14:56
Does the rule not state something along the lines of: (dont have my book at work)...

Roll 2D6 and add (2 for banshee, W for Terrorgheist) and for each point it beats the units LD it causes a wound with no armour save?

Meaning that is not a LD test. Just an attack that uses the target units LD as its defence against this attack.

Therefore the answer is no.

This was the previous FAQ on banshee scream obviously not legit anymore but im sure you get the idea:

Q. Is the Tomb Banshee’s Ghostly Howl attack roll a Leadership test
and if so can a battle standard allow it to be re-rolled? (p49)
A. No to both questions.

Duke_of_Krondor
14-02-2012, 15:06
It's not a leadership test. It's a roll against the other units leadership.

The answer is a definite no

Smogg
14-02-2012, 15:10
Oh so Inspiring presence only work against leadership tests?

It states "units within 12" uses his Leadership instead of their own." - nothing about being limited to leadership tests only.

Nedar
14-02-2012, 15:23
Except that the Scream attacks are not stated to use "un-modified" leadership. Therefore they can use Inspiring Presence unless FAQed otherwise...this also let's things like Doom and Darkness effect the Scream, if it was un-modified then it would be the highest leadership in the unit with NO modifiers (General's leadership if he's in the unit counts).

Un-modified = Highest in unit, no modifiers what-so-ever.
Otherwise use highest in unit or Inspiring Presence then apply all modifiers such as Doom and Darkness, etc.

Duke_of_Krondor
14-02-2012, 15:26
Right. I understand the question now.

When targeted by the banshee/terrogheist, does the attacker roll against the units leadership or, if within range, can they use the generals leadership (from inspiring presence)?

I don't have the book infront of me but the previous FAQ said no, I believe. You'll have to wait for the next FAQs to go up. I don't have the book with me so can't double check the wording. If it says 'unmodified' then there's an FAQ for that (BRB defines unmodified Ld in the FAQ).

Sorry for misunderstanding the question though the point still stands as it's not a Ld/characteristic test.

Nedar
14-02-2012, 15:38
It's not a Leadership test. You roll 2d6+(2 or wounds) and subtract their leadership value. This is the highest available value (unit character or general if in range) then take wounds equal to the difference. It is not "unmodified" leadership in this book.

Hell Storm
14-02-2012, 15:38
In the last army book, it was printed in the banshee's rule that it would allow the unit to use the general's leadership. I would expect this to stay the same in the current book as well.

Wesser
14-02-2012, 18:04
Does it allow Skaven to use Strength in Numbers though?

In their old book SiN just increased the LD for the purposes lf LD tests. Dont know about the new book though...


On a related note: Does this means a unit can use the General's leadership for the purposes of Okkam's Mindrazor?

Texhnolyze
14-02-2012, 18:34
Does it allow Skaven to use Strength in Numbers though?

In their old book SiN just increased the LD for the purposes lf LD tests. Dont know about the new book though...


On a related note: Does this means a unit can use the General's leadership for the purposes of Okkam's Mindrazor?

SiN states that they can add their rank bonuses to LD tests, so no they can't.

Mindrazor was faqd to use the units "raw" ld value, that on their profile. They can not use the generals ld

Iraf
14-02-2012, 19:14
It is a leadership "based" test. So yes, Skaven can use their SiN.

Wesser
14-02-2012, 19:18
It is a leadership "based" test. So yes, Skaven can use their SiN.

Except there's no test involved.

Its 2D6+2-Target LD in case of Banshee. Thats not even an LD-based test

Iraf
14-02-2012, 19:32
The attack is testing against the Skaven's Leadership, so that is a LD- based test.

Wesser
14-02-2012, 20:08
The attack is testing against the Skaven's Leadership, so that is a LD- based test.

So when I roll to wound in hand-to-hand its a Toughness test? Also we do we have weapon-skill tests?

It's not a test. My only question is if SiN said it adds to units LD or adds LD to unit for purposes of LD tests. In the latter case there's no real question.

Iraf
14-02-2012, 20:41
You use a chart to wound, so no it wouldn't be a toughness test, as there is a to wound chart. Same as a to hit chart.
Yes, this a Ld based attack, that tests against your ld. SiN works.

Kalandros
14-02-2012, 21:02
I'm sorry Iraf but in gaming terms it is NOT a test in any way.
SiN still works I think because there's a bunch of FAQs on the subject and I don't care.

But don't mix game terms with what you "feel" it should be.

Characteristic Tests are described in one section.
The Banshee/Terrorgheist Screams are not Characteristic Tests.

Iraf
14-02-2012, 21:10
I wasn't saying it was a Ld Test. I was saying it is a LD based test, which SiN on page 33 of the rulebook states it works with.

geldedgoat
14-02-2012, 21:17
I wasn't saying it was a Ld Test. I was saying it is a LD based test, which SiN on page 33 of the rulebook states it works with.

...except the screams don't test against a unit's leadership. As written, SiN wouldn't apply.

Iraf
14-02-2012, 21:31
Just read the Skaven Errata's. Wording on SiN changed to Leadership Tests, not Leadership Based Tests. I concur with your interpretation now.

TheRaven
14-02-2012, 21:37
To be Inspiring presence was one of the most poorly written rules in 8th. Saying that models within 12' may "Use the general's leadership" is so ambiguous. What does "Use" mean, can they use his leadership at any time for any purpose? I'm suprised this hasn't been FAQ'd since it affects alot of things. To me, since "Use" is such a general term and that's all the rulebook says it would seem that yes it would work. It's good to note though that this also counts against the Coven Throne, and other things like the casket of souls...... I wish Inspiring Presence only worked on LD tests but oh well. I also wish it would get a definative answer in an FAQ since the FAQs really have some blatantly obvious Q and As taking up space in it......

Blkc57
15-02-2012, 05:11
SiN states that they can add their rank bonuses to LD tests, so no they can't.

Mindrazor was faqd to use the units "raw" ld value, that on their profile. They can not use the generals ld

The old VC FAQ says that SIN works against a Banshee scream, I would bet that it stays.

This is the FAQ from the previous VC before they took it down, it was literally right underneath the FAQ about a scream not being a leadership test.

Q. Can Skaven use their Strength In Numbers bonus against the Banshee’s Ghostly Howl? (p49)
A. Yes.

Iraf
15-02-2012, 06:02
The old VC FAQ says that SIN works against a Banshee scream, I would bet that it stays.

This is the FAQ from the previous VC before they took it down, it was literally right underneath the FAQ about a scream not being a leadership test.

Q. Can Skaven use their Strength In Numbers bonus against the Banshee’s Ghostly Howl? (p49)
A. Yes.

It's a good thing to go by. Hopefully they FAQ the new VC soon to give an updated answer.

Blkc57
15-02-2012, 06:12
It's a good thing to go by. Hopefully they FAQ the new VC soon to give an updated answer.

I would think they would have to, to simply remove it from the FAQ and never address it would create confusion when the old FAQ took the time to go over it. They will have to rule on it one way or the other, my gut feeling is telling me though that they stick to the old interpretation of the Scream and give both SIN and Inspiring Presence to models affected. Just because the Scream didn't seem to change that drastically from 7th to 8th to warrant a complete 180 in their previous ruling. But this is all conjecture, we won't know till a new FAQ is released.

Texhnolyze
06-06-2012, 12:16
I would think they would have to, to simply remove it from the FAQ and never address it would create confusion when the old FAQ took the time to go over it. They will have to rule on it one way or the other, my gut feeling is telling me though that they stick to the old interpretation of the Scream and give both SIN and Inspiring Presence to models affected. Just because the Scream didn't seem to change that drastically from 7th to 8th to warrant a complete 180 in their previous ruling. But this is all conjecture, we won't know till a new FAQ is released.

But if they rule as "yes they can use SiN" they have to deal with all the,

Skave guy: "I can reroll that scream because of my bsb"
VC guy: "no you can't, it's not an LD test"
Skaven guy: "Well, if the Skaven can use SiN, which is also only for LD-tests *points at the FaQ*, then the BSB should work"
VC guy: "*sigh*"

Soundwave
06-06-2012, 12:41
Great another undefined leadership based question. My understanding is that no inspiring presence is used this is a characteristic based comparison against the target unit whom of which may use any characters leadership within the unit itself???

GodlessM
06-06-2012, 13:17
Except that the Scream attacks are not stated to use "un-modified" leadership. Therefore they can use Inspiring Presence unless FAQed otherwise...this also let's things like Doom and Darkness effect the Scream, if it was un-modified then it would be the highest leadership in the unit with NO modifiers (General's leadership if he's in the unit counts).

Un-modified = Highest in unit, no modifiers what-so-ever.
Otherwise use highest in unit or Inspiring Presence then apply all modifiers such as Doom and Darkness, etc.

There's a problem with your logic here; you may use Inspiring Presense for Ld tests, but this isn't a test.

Texhnolyze
06-06-2012, 13:48
There's a problem with your logic here; you may use Inspiring Presense for Ld tests, but this isn't a test.

Except that the rules for Inspiring Presense say: "Providing that the General is not fleeing, all friendly units within 12" use his Leadership instead of their own."

So it can always be used, not just for tests.

T10
06-06-2012, 15:15
7th ed specified tests. Subtle change, I guess.