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Fable
15-02-2012, 00:51
Eldar Corsair List: A Comprehensive Review

After seeing some major errors in the BOLS Corsair List review I decided to do a much more comprehensive review here, and hopefully keep it more accurate.

Unique Wargear

Balelight: The description of this weapon is pretty neat, it’s conjures the image of a Baroque Gatlin Pistol, though the profile is extremely mediocre (Str 3 AP 6, rending, Pinning, Assault 4) and then you combine this with the fact that it’s a one use only weapon and it costs as much as a Plasma Pistol for IG and you won’t see this taken except by fluff nuts who enjoy those random army elements as much as playing the game.

Corsair Jetpack: It doesn’t bring anything new to the area of Jetpacks in the game, but they are purchased for the unit as a whole rather than individually.

Gyrinx: This upgrade for the Void Dreamer is a one-time reroll in the game used for most situations (armor save, to hit roll, etc.). It’s a bit pricey for a one shot use, but it will be taken fairly often if you go with the Void Dreamer.

Neural Shredder: This is a pretty neat weapon in that it’s an AP 1 Template weapon. At first it appears to be pretty hefty at Str 8, but it goes against LD not Toughness and without a way to actively diminish LD from your opponents it’s not going to be as awesome as you’d first imagine it. Against vehicles it provides an automatic Penetrating hit, but only gives you a roll of D3 on the chart (+1 for AP1). I still think this is probably the most Unique and interesting piece of kit available in the list.

Void Sabre: This is another really cool option in the list. It provides +1 Str and Rending to models that are equipped with one. It’s a nice option for models that don’t have Furious Charge to pull off some type of Harlequinish Charge. In fact, the only problem I have with it is that it’s so limited in availability as only the Corsair Prince or Void Dreamer can pick it up.

HQ

Corsair Prince: The Corsair Prince is what the Autarch wishes it was. It comes with the really cool Void Stirke rule that gives the Autarch a once per game attack that can give you some anti-mob or anti-heavy infantry attacks or Night Fight for a turn. In addition it allows you to grant Deep Strike to up to three units that normally do not come with it and if you’re giving it to a unit that has a dedicated transport it’s granted Deep Strike as well. Are Falcons dedicated transports in this army list? You Betcha. The Prince also opens up a Corsair Blade Sworn Retinue.

Corsair Blade Sworn Retinue: They are a 2-5 model unit that is fundamentally a low leadership Aspect squad with an extra attack and no special gear outside of Plasma Grenades. You can jam pack the unit with Power Swords and Fusion Pistols and Melta Bombs/Haywire Grenades if you like, but the unit gets incredibly pricey incredibly quick. I think you’ll see these pretty commonly with a Falcon to make a very powerful assault squad, but people who play a more competitive style game will probably keep them armed with just power weapons. I really think this unit should have had access to Void Sabres as it really would have made them a standout unit somewhere in between Incubi and Howling Banshees.

Corsair Void Dreamer: Filling in as the resident psyker in the Corsair list the Void Dreamer, rune armor and all, steps in and has access to a Witchblade if you want one. Unlike other Eldar Psykers it comes with three powers automatically. Withering Radiance is the most apparently useful as it causes D6 Str 10 minus the targets toughness hits at AP2 and against vehicles is essentially a weaker Haywire, all at 12”. Spiritshield provides middling protection against psychic attacks (Does Doom count as a hostile power?). Soul Scry gives a unit within 12” a diminished version of Embolden (doesn’t allow Psychic test rerolls).

Elites

Corsair Voidstorm Squad: They’re fundamentally a Jetpack assault unit. Similar to the Blade Sworn tricking them out makes them incredibly expensive incredibly quick, and this time the unit only as a 5+ (though they do come with a Shimmer Shield as well).

Harlequins: For the most part this unit is the one we know and accept in every Eldar iteration, but it should be known that in this dex if the squad is a minimum size it can take a Venom as transport.

Eldar Outcasts: A 0-1 unit that can be any Fast Attack or Elite unit or Rangers from Codex Eldar. This can allow you to squeeze in a fourth Nightwing. Rangers are the most natural fit fluffwise, but it gives you options to fill in holes in your list.

Dark Eldar Kabalite Warriors: Another 0-1 unit, and if you buy them a venom it is purchased through the parent codex. Oddly this unit, thanks to Power from Pain could be one of the more survivable units once FNP kicks in. It is unclear to me whether they can also take a Raider as an option, but my initial impression was that it’s not allowed.

Troops

Eldar Corsairs: They are light infantry available in small squads. To be honest if you hate guardians you’ll probably hate these units and will most likely resent being forced to include at least one in your list. If I were to start over my army from scratch there’s a good chance I would get the models and use them as Swooping Hawks, but that aside I can say that at slightly more than the cost of a guardian they do also come with Plasma grenades and a close combat weapon (though no pistol) and the standard 4 BS. They have the option of 1 special weapon and 1 heavy weapon per 5 models so a full squad can put out a hefty amount of fire. If you want an assault oriented unit you can exchange the lasblaster for a shuriken pistol for free or alternatively a shuriken catapult. Essentially the unit functions similar to the old Blue Dex Guardians but can also get Jetpacks or take a transport.

Wasp Assault Walkers: BS 4 walkers are probably going to provide the majority of the list's heavy firepower because they’re tough against small arms fire, they’re speedy (with jet pack movement and the capability to make a power-boosted jump and a deep strike option). The 12” special jump also gives them an ork like 5+ cover save from dust and movement. Also you may not have more Wasp units than you do basic Corsairs.

Corsair Jetbike Squadrons: Once again these are nearly identical to the option in the main dex with the higher BS, but they also get Scouts which means they can earn that turbo boost cover save before the game starts, or they can outflank and use that Str 6 weaponry on the exposed tender underbellies of vehicles.

Dedicated Transports

Corsair Falcon: It got hit with a 15 pt increase for that upgraded BS and I think, like its Craftworld cousin it’s overpriced, but not taking up a Heavy slot is a welcome option.

Corsair Venom: The flickerfield is gone and it can’t deep strike, however that doesn’t feel like the largest nerf to this transport. It got a price drop correspondingly, but I feel like it might not be enough. It’s got a Shuriken Cannon in place of a Splinter Cannon that can be upgraded to the normal suspects and has access to the normal Eldar upgrades. One thing that really bugs me is that the Twin-Linked catapults cannot be upgraded.

Fast Attack

Corsair Hornet Squadron: One thing this book does is turn the weakest section on the FOC to one of if not the strongest. The Hornet is relatively cheap, but depending on the weapons you give it the unit may run pricey. It also blows the doors off the Vyper in every possible way. Better BS, Scout, Aerial Assault and Star engines are all standard along with the two base shuriken cannons and better armor than the Vyper. It’s hard for me to justify still taking the Vyper comparatively and unless a future Eldar dex addresses the Vyper aggressively the Hornet will still whoop the Vyper out behind the woodshed every time.

Nightwing: With a price to match the Razorwing and a slew of special rules the Nightwing is an excellent option. In an Eldar list it seems to outshine all the other options, but in a corsair list it seems to just fit in with a lot of very fragile firepower. I assume most folk who use one will Deep Strike with it and take out the back of the ugliest meanest enemy vehicle on the board. Expect it to become a priority target very quickly among your opponents.

Corsair Night Spinner: A price bump similar to the Falcon but the move to Fast Attack will see the model get some use. I can easily see the Corsair list have trouble with massed infantry and the Night Spinner could help balance out the force.

Heavy Support

Phoenix Bomber: The price is high, but it feels worth it. It’s got all the same rules as the Nightwing except interceptor. Its standard armament is geared more towards wiping out heavy infantry, but if you upgrade to the Nightfire missiles you can do some major damage to any horde (dropping 6 str 4 AP 5 small blasts that ignore cover will wreck many a foe’s day).

Corsair Warp Hunter: We all know and love this unit. While there is a typo on the page in the glancing rule FW has posted on their facebook page that it is a typo and should read 2-4 for glancing not 3-4.
Hopefully they’ll update the FAQ at some point to soothe complainers. Considering two out of the 3 times it was printed it was listed as 2-4 it seems clear enough.

Corsair Firestorm: This is a missed opportunity. To call it pricey or bloated or indulgent would be too kind in my mind. The gun is substantially lacking when you consider the most readily available flyer models are Storm Raven and Valkyrie or Those of the 12 armor. The transport option seems a bit wasted. Personally I’d like to see the transport gone, the gun beefed up in some way (perhaps Str 7) and drop down by 80 or 100 pts, but I’m not in control of these things, so as it stands it just sits out of place.

Shamana
15-02-2012, 10:20
I haven't tested the list yet, and while I agree on most things, here are some comments where we disagree.

Gyrinx: actually, for what it does it could hardly cost less. Considering that Dreamers aren't incredibly expensive, I don't see why not take one. You are going to want to reroll at least once, probably.

Corsair Prince: I don't think it's that good, really. First of all, he's not cheap - and if we want to make an autarch comparison, the autarch is somewhat 70% cheaper and comes with better stock gear (heavy aspect armor + forcefield), so the prince is worse in straight-up combat. Oh, and the princey doesn't get the reserve manipulation of the autarch either. Instead you can DS several units and have a 1-shot area orbital bombardment (anti-armor or anti-horde variety) or solar pulse. Deepstriking can be handly, although also risky, especially with big models such as falcons or warp hunters. Frankly, I'd have much preferred the autarch strategy in a list with WWP and mass jetpack/scout units; the prince lives or dies by how well it plays the tricks in his sleeve - DSing fire dragons/wraithguard, using nightfighting rules at the end of your shooting turn so you can mitigate enemy shooting, etc. Overall, don't be mistaken thinking this is a combat HQ: it's a utility one, so treat it as such.
- note: for 5 points, the prince can take a 5++ shimmershield. Does that mean the whole squad gets it, like in the craftworld eldar codex?

Void Dreamer: surprisingly enough, I'm not that keen on the powers - even though you know then for free and spirit stones allow you to cast two for a fairly low price. The HQ can do several things, but not all that well. The real gem, ironically mistaken in the codex and fixed in the FAQ, is that the dreamer can carry a webway portal. Considering the corsairs' fragility and speed, that can make things quite interesting.

Voidsworn: eh, I'm not that keen on them. The mobility is nice, but they don't actually do all that much for the points. They are a bit like better storm guardians with jetpacks - with the stat boost from embolden actually included, plasma grenades, and more special weapons options. Not bad, certainly, just don't expect wonders from them.

Harlequins - apart from being able to finally take a transport (albeit one that limits them to 5-spaceelf band), there's nothing new about those guys. However, unlike the DE corsairs don't have a smorgasbord of good assault units, so the Psycho Circus may be one of your better options if you want dedicated melee. Also, with Veil of Tears they can be a good "cover" squad for a void dreamer with a WWP. On the other hand, they benefit from being able to rush from WWPs as much as everyone else who can't take a bolt round to the face.

Outcasts: there are a few nice picks here. Scorpions give you a relatively hard anti-horde melee unit, banshees are dedicated anti-MEQ, fire dragons are, well, fire dragons, and you can effectively trade an elite slot for more of something you can already get - like hornets, wasps, or as was noted - nightwings.

Kabalite Mercs: if you want some poison shooting or some of the DE list weapons (i.e. shredders, lance+blaster combo), sure. I don't necessarily think it's such a great option, but kabalites are a pretty decent unit on their own.

Corsairs: Ironically, I hate guardians, and I love these guys. Why? Because guardians are a mish-mash of conflicting rules and roles - and in the end are poor at anything. Corsairs are a completely different animal. They are almost the same price as guardians, but come with BS 4, longer-ranged weapon, can have up to two heavy AND assault weapons in a squad of 10, and can have jetpacks that let them both fire heavy guns on the move and jump back in the assault phase. They can do long-range shooting fairly well, they can come in close for firefights, they can sit in a falcon all day - your choice. It's great that the list has the almost unique ability to make a jetpack-based army, and it actually works fairly well.

That said, it pays to know what you want from them and equip them accordingly. If you are giving them jetpacks and heavy guns, meltaguns and even flamers may not be necessary. Likewise, if you want a more storm-guardian-like squad, a shuriken cannon makes little sense. A Felarch is usually a good idea if you aren't always in a transport - with an average Ld and low unit size, corsairs can be prone to running away.

Wasp Assault walkers: DS is tricky, and those guys lost the scout rule. They ARE a great unit, don't get me wrong - just be careful how you use them.

Corsair Jetbikes: - better both in shooting and melee, and can outflank. Plop a WWP or two in the middle of the board, and they can go almost anywhere.

Hornet: good grief. I may be somewhat biased, because the vyper was... well, crap, but I think this is probably the best light skimmer in the game. At present I think that none of the vehicle upgrades are that good (except maybe stones if are running solo hornets); on the weapon front I think leaving them with shuri-cannons, upgrading to scatter or going all in with pulse lasers are all viable options. 2 pulse lasers may seem expensive, but you are putting out more shots than a ravager, with longer range, and possibly outflanking. There is no reason to take the vyper whenever this is allowed.

Nightwing: 4++ when you move (and you should always be moving) makes it a bit hardier than one may expect. I wish you could customize the guns - now it comes with 2 anti-heavy armor and 2 anti-horde/light armor weapons - but it's still fairly good.

Corsair Night Spinner: +1 BS is not worth 15 points when it comes to a single large blast gun, but the ability to slow down your opponent can be golden for corsairs. I just wish it was in the HS slot, ironically for corsairs FA is much more competitive.

Phoenix: Pricey, and fragile for its points even with the invulnerable save. How come IG's fliers got a big armor boost (AV 12 and extra armor for free) and this is still 10/10/10? Oh well. The guns are good - barring the AA shuriken cannons - and you do have the option to customize a bit. What is good is you have the option to stay at range and shoot from there. I still think it's a bit overpriced - even compared to, say, the voidraven - but it's serviceable.

Warp Hunter: very good, whichever way the glancing issue goes. A large D-cannon that can be used as a template is fine. That said, a crew shaken/stunned can effectiely shut you down, and you don't have the range of the prism. I imagine you'd have to use it aggressively.

Firestorm: it was already ovepriced and lackluster. Making it cost more just because it has BS 4 didn't help. A thoroughly bad option.


Overall, the list could benefit from being able to take a few more CW vehicles like the Prism in the HS slot or have some more specialized corsair units in the FA slot, right now it's a very bare-bones list and there are some slots where you don't have that much choice (heavy support, who would have thought ;) ). It is still an interesting list that offers a lot of new options and can have a very distinct style of play.

Fable
15-02-2012, 13:59
Thanks for replying. I think it's important to have differing points of view but I did want to comment on a few things you mentioned.



Corsair Prince: - note: for 5 points, the prince can take a 5++ shimmershield. Does that mean the whole squad gets it, like in the craftworld eldar codex?

Yes. If you check the wargear section of the Corsair list it specifies the 5++ in combat applies to the entire unit that the Corsair Prince has joined.




Hornet: good grief. I may be somewhat biased, because the vyper was... well, crap, but I think this is probably the best light skimmer in the game. At present I think that none of the vehicle upgrades are that good (except maybe stones if are running solo hornets); on the weapon front I think leaving them with shuri-cannons, upgrading to scatter or going all in with pulse lasers are all viable options. 2 pulse lasers may seem expensive, but you are putting out more shots than a ravager, with longer range, and possibly outflanking. There is no reason to take the vyper whenever this is allowed.

It's kind of sad how thorough the thrashing is when comparing those two units. It entirely seems to be the Vyper's fault. I also have found that because of the weapon options the Venom for the Corsair list are less disireable and you can only upgrade one of the weapons.




Nightwing: 4++ when you move (and you should always be moving) makes it a bit hardier than one may expect. I wish you could customize the guns - now it comes with 2 anti-heavy armor and 2 anti-horde/light armor weapons - but it's still fairly good.

I used this puppy to absolutely light up some IG tanks recently, but I have learned the danger of heavy bolters. The volume of weapons it has also helps it survive a bit longer because they're four seperate weapons, which is far superior to two pairs of twin linked weapons. Also, being able to reasonably depend on Bright Lances makes me hate them less.



Phoenix: Pricey, and fragile for its points even with the invulnerable save. How come IG's fliers got a big armor boost (AV 12 and extra armor for free) and this is still 10/10/10? Oh well. The guns are good - barring the AA shuriken cannons - and you do have the option to customize a bit. What is good is you have the option to stay at range and shoot from there. I still think it's a bit overpriced - even compared to, say, the voidraven - but it's serviceable.

I find it a fairly comperable option to the Voidraven. What it lacks in alpha-strike devastation it makes up for in being able to put out its damage all game long. I'm still trying to figure out why anyone would take a weapon other than the pulsar on the belly. The new rules are so good they have me contemplating doing a conversion of one. I converted a Nightwing because it seemed easier, but what I really wanted to work up was a Phoenix.



Warp Hunter: I imagine you'd have to use it aggressively.

I've been using one since before the first iteration of FW rules (long story, check my painting log). You have to use them very aggressively, but it's an excellent option and can punish castle formations like nothing else the Eldar have.

Shamana
15-02-2012, 14:24
The voidraven isn't only alpha strike though. With a lower enough price to make nightfield/flickerfield certainly possible, and higher armor, it can probably match the phoenix in resilience. I'm surprised the PB didn't get an armor buff to the same level, really. Unlike the Nightwing, it is a ground attack plane, you'd think someone would put at least enough armor so it doesn't get shot down by heavy bolters ;) .

carlisimo
15-02-2012, 17:41
How useful is a unit-by-unit rundown as a review? I feel like I don't need help analyzing individual units, but what I'm not good at is seeing the army as a whole. I need expert reviewers to tell me how units can work in concert with each other, what play styles the army is designed to work well with, what weaknesses to watch out for, etc. Some of the BOLS reviews do that and it gives me a much better picture than a line item review.

Fable
15-02-2012, 20:23
How useful is a unit-by-unit rundown as a review? I feel like I don't need help analyzing individual units, but what I'm not good at is seeing the army as a whole. I need expert reviewers to tell me how units can work in concert with each other, what play styles the army is designed to work well with, what weaknesses to watch out for, etc. Some of the BOLS reviews do that and it gives me a much better picture than a line item review.

Well, the Bols review did throw up some spam lists, which were mostly innacurate (ie 6 Nightwings or Rangers as Troops). Other than innacurate lists they pretty much did a line by line unit review (also often inaccurate). Normally I wouldn't have bothered with something like this because it takes a lot of effort, but their review was so inaccurate that it inspired me to do this. I would NEVER consider BOLS reviewers "experts" at reviewing army lists unless accuracy is less necessary than volume of reviews.

That being said the Corsair is a fast and fragile army that lacks punch. The vehicles are capable, but very vulnerable. Most of them run very expensive, but they're also doing the bulk of the work for you in a game. Fast attack will be where you have to make the most difficult choices because everything is so good. The weakest section of the list is the Elites, but you'll probably end up taking an extra Nightwing or Hornet Squadron in that spot. The Heavy Support options realistically come down to two options, the Phoneix and Warp Hunter and you'll probably see most people spam the Warp Hunter in triplicate because it's easier to use.

With Falcons as dedicated transports and cheap fragile infantry you'll probably see a lot of Falcon based Mech variations of this list with flyer support. At first glance the list appears to suffer against mech, but I think it has enough options available to it that it can take on armored foes pretty handily, but horde based lists are going to cause problems as will any combat force that actually gets to grip with you. This list mostly needs to stay out of combat. The Harlequins may shine here even more than in other lists simply as a reserve counter assault unit.

The list does NOT scale well for competitive gamers. I probably wouldn't use the list in games over 1850 pts, personally and I expect any Imperial Guard or GK force will be a horrible match up for them. Then again the list isn't built for competitive gamers at all. It's more of a fluff enthusiast list and really exemplifies FW's recent turn towards supporting nostalgic players with extra money. Trying to shoehorn the list into some type of competitive mindset will probably end with frustration and disappointment, but using it as a way to breath a little bit of new life into an aging Eldar codex will be much more fulfilling.

I plan on making a small group of Corsairs that work in accordance with my Craftworld force, and since the book mentions the Black Raiders being close to Ulthwe the same way the Eldritch Raiders are to Iyanden I'll be basing them off of that bit of fluff.

TheDoctor
15-02-2012, 20:32
Take 5 man squads with meltaguns in falcons- you are now playing a much more durable and harder hitting (albeit more expensive) Eldar version of razorback spam.

Shamana
15-02-2012, 22:46
Take 5 man squads with meltaguns in falcons- you are now playing a much more durable and harder hitting (albeit more expensive) Eldar version of razorback spam.

Well, Corsairs can certainly play eldar mech. A corsair unit can work to make a scoring falcon as well as anything - and their lower cost compared to avengers compensates the slightly higher cost on the falcon. They don't have access to serpents (sadly, a transport able to take a full squad would be nice) but have falcon-chassis units in nearly every slot - falcons as dedicated transports for HQ and troops, spinners in FA, warp hunters in HS. You could, points permitting, take up to 15 falcon-chassis transports - 8 dedicated falcons for HQs and troops, 3 spinners, 3 hunters, and a serpent w. craftworld exies. While I think 15 points for +1 BS is a tad high, you certainly can field a lot of mech if you choose to go that way. CVU is every bit as good as DAVU, and probably more. Between a solar pulse of sorts and webway portals, a foot list may be at least somewhat possible - and of course you could try a DS-heavy list.

Now, the corsaits list is fairly short, which is leads to some of its problems. It has only 3 FA and HS options, and only 4 elites - two of which are 0-1.

TheDoctor
16-02-2012, 02:00
Well, Corsairs can certainly play eldar mech. A corsair unit can work to make a scoring falcon as well as anything - and their lower cost compared to avengers compensates the slightly higher cost on the falcon. They don't have access to serpents (sadly, a transport able to take a full squad would be nice) but have falcon-chassis units in nearly every slot - falcons as dedicated transports for HQ and troops, spinners in FA, warp hunters in HS. You could, points permitting, take up to 15 falcon-chassis transports - 8 dedicated falcons for HQs and troops, 3 spinners, 3 hunters, and a serpent w. craftworld exies. While I think 15 points for +1 BS is a tad high, you certainly can field a lot of mech if you choose to go that way. CVU is every bit as good as DAVU, and probably more. Between a solar pulse of sorts and webway portals, a foot list may be at least somewhat possible - and of course you could try a DS-heavy list.

Now, the corsaits list is fairly short, which is leads to some of its problems. It has only 3 FA and HS options, and only 4 elites - two of which are 0-1.

Meh, the limited force org chart I don't care too much about.
-I get BS 4 tanks and basic dudes (YEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!)
-I get a Fast Attack slots that I actually use.
--So it seems to me my normal Eldar lists that use maxed out Elites will switch over to Fast Attack
-I get awesome Heavy Support Choices, and the slot is not overcrowded.
-Oh, and I get BS 4 on my tanks and dudes. :D

My only question is whether or not the Kabalite Warriors can take a Raider, because I would love to have Howling Banshees in an Open-topped vehicle.

Son of Russ
16-02-2012, 11:39
I plan on making a small group of Corsairs that work in accordance with my Craftworld force, and since the book mentions the Black Raiders being close to Ulthwe the same way the Eldritch Raiders are to Iyanden I'll be basing them off of that bit of fluff.

I intend on doing the same. I'll probably create my own Corsair group to ally with Arithym.

greenmtvince
16-02-2012, 14:04
From a few games, I think the real gem in the corsair list isn't the mech option (which I believe a craftworld list, with Farseer Bel-Annath and Imperial Armour units is actually better) but rather the jetpack infnatry based lists. A whole army that JSJs with Eldar Aircraft on a sufficiently large table is a lot of fun to play and surprisingly effective. Corsairs are as fragile as guardians, but jetpacks gives you a lot of options to keep them out of range, out of LOS, and out of assault while still delivering a lot of firepower. They are very comparable to the Eldar Corsairs fleet in BFG in terms of how they play compared to the other races.


Regarding craftworld outcasts, Rules as Written would seem to indicate the choices may only be taken from Codex Eldar and not Imperial Armour units that count as Fast Attack in an Eldar Army (with the explicitly mentioned exception of a Shadow Spectre squad.) I don't think the 4 Nightwing list (or one with 4 Wasp or Hornet squadrons) is legal.

Son of Russ
16-02-2012, 14:17
They are stated as being Codex Eldar choices, thus entirely legal.

Shamana
16-02-2012, 23:59
They are stated as being Codex Eldar choices, thus entirely legal.

I agree, though I'd probably use that slot to snag an elite unit - either a powerful shooting unit like wraithguards or fire dragons, or a unit good in melee (corsairs are a bit lacking there) such as scoprions or banshees.

carlisimo
17-02-2012, 18:36
Well, the Bols review did throw up some spam lists, which were mostly innacurate (ie 6 Nightwings or Rangers as Troops). Other than innacurate lists they pretty much did a line by line unit review (also often inaccurate). Normally I wouldn't have bothered with something like this because it takes a lot of effort, but their review was so inaccurate that it inspired me to do this. I would NEVER consider BOLS reviewers "experts" at reviewing army lists unless accuracy is less necessary than volume of reviews.

That being said the Corsair is a fast and fragile army that lacks punch...

I didn't actually read BOLS's review of the Corsair list, but they've occasionally posted good ones in the past. Thanks for the holistic rundown though. I thought it was a much better introduction to the list than your first post!

Fable
17-02-2012, 19:27
I didn't actually read BOLS's review of the Corsair list, but they've occasionally posted good ones in the past. Thanks for the holistic rundown though. I thought it was a much better introduction to the list than your first post!

It was brutally rife with inaccuracies. I'm sure they've done some good ones in the past, but that one was memorable for the volume of errors and they seemed to permeate every facet of the article. Unfortunately it's closer to what I've come to expect from them. Also I find they rely too heavily on one dimensional lists based off of unit repetition and that doesn't actually benefit codexes that are designed for layered builds and a synergistic approach.

I'm glad you appreciated the addendum. I was trying to keep the initial review close to the pattern BOLS did sans army lists but with unique wargear added in, however one of the strengths of posting in a forum rather than treating it like an article in a newspaper is that when posters make it clear that something more was required to meet my aim with the review I can add that in. If you hadn't mentioned what you really wanted out of a review of the list I would not have added it in.

Shamana
17-02-2012, 19:50
Eh, I guess with BoLS it depends on the reviewer. In that case, I gave up pretty much at the start, where the author basically said the Prince is "combat choice. With a very similar stat line to that of a DE archon, his cost of 100 points basic is quite good."

In just over a sentence, the author lost me completely. The Prince has a notably worse statline than the archon - in fact is almost identical to the autarch. His base cost is high, and the item support is unimpressive - the best weapons you can get are a regular power weapon or a rending scorpion chainsword. As for the basic cost - it's the same as a SM captain, and a SM captain comes with power armor and iron halo; the prince comes with a carapace and must pay for everything else. An autarch for the same points (100 gets you one with power weapon, mandiblaster and fusion gun) is strictly better, and when an autarch can clean your clock, a good combat HQ you ain't.

That is NOT a well-costed combat choice HQ - in fact, if you look simply at combat abilities, the prince is woefully lacking. They live or die by their utility.

TheDoctor
18-02-2012, 23:57
@Shamana
So standard Eldar HQ choice? Pick the psyker?

Shamana
19-02-2012, 00:48
@ The doctor: I do lean towards taking the dreamer, but actually both are valid choices. It's just that there is no clear "combat" and "support" distinction: both HQ choices are, essentially, support characters. They give you different options: you pick what you want and what works with your list.

You don't take the prince for the combat profile, but or the special tricks - DSing units that normally can't (i.e. warp hunters, a fire dragon or wraithguard squad, etc) or if you want to use their bombardment/nightfighting shot. You take the dreamer if you want something marginally cheaper, if you want a modicum of psychic support/protection (even though their psychic protection is fairly meh) or if you want to make a WWP list.

Fable
19-02-2012, 01:57
@Shamana
So standard Eldar HQ choice? Pick the psyker?

I agree with Shamana, both choices are really support HQs, however I prefer the Prince between the two. I find the Prince's brand of support more fits with my playstyle than the Dreamer. The choice comes down a lot more to the player, but you have to know how you intend to use them throughout the game and stick with that. If your plan is bad, learn from it. Don't second guess yourself or you'll get clobbered with them.

sturguard
19-02-2012, 02:59
If you take the prince you do so for their abilities, not their wargear. First, if you take him, you give 3 units deep strike that normally wouldnt have it- how much is the deep strike ability worth for each unit- 10 pts each? If you chose a unit with a transport, both get it (and count as 1 choice). So a 90 pt unit of 6 firedragons being able to deep strike and shoot, is pretty handy (as opposed to having to transport them) along with 2 Warp Hunters, or better yet, jetbikes. Now, you get your missile strike, they are actually some pretty decent choices that offer some flexibility- nightfight on turn 1, while waiting for reserves to outflank? Blast template than ID's Oblits? Lets assign that what 20 pts? Heck a HK missile is 10. So if when building your list you take these abilities into account, how much does the statline cost you 35-40 out of the 100 pts? Put meltabombs on him and a jetpack or a fusion pistol and hope he takes out a tank or transport. I think you need a Dreamer if you want to use the WWP, other than that, there isnt much incentive to take them. Unlike other Eldar, they dont have the ability to take Runes of Warding and protect the army from psychic abilities. Yes, she can cast a power that is similar to that, but most armies now have the ability to shut down enemy psychers with wargear. I say if you want psychic abilities, go standard eldar. Just my two cents.

Tethylis
19-02-2012, 11:53
Since we are on the subject of prince's, what are peoples opinions on using his darkfire voidstrike while in a falcon? I know it is used in lieu of a shooting attack and uses the shooting rules where relevant, but since that is not a standard shooting attack could it be used while embarked?

Fable
19-02-2012, 14:29
Since we are on the subject of prince's, what are peoples opinions on using his darkfire voidstrike while in a falcon? I know it is used in lieu of a shooting attack and uses the shooting rules where relevant, but since that is not a standard shooting attack could it be used while embarked?

My opinion would be: no.

As he is not able to make a standard shooting attack whilst in a falcon since it has no firing points.

Vmartini
19-02-2012, 17:45
I'd agree. It states he follows normal shooting rules and doesn't state he ignores the need for line of sight, and as the Falcon has no fire points it can't be used while embarked. He could do it from a Venom though.

Shamana
19-02-2012, 19:34
Actually, that's an interesting point - would the darkfire count as a heavy, assault, or any other "option" and as such what are the rules for using it from a moving transport?

ljal
03-03-2012, 16:43
I am so sorry for such newbie question considering nighwing and phoenix in regular wh40k fight using corsairs. Does my opponent need to roll 6 to hit them as in apocalypse or not?

Son of Russ
03-03-2012, 18:36
No. In 40K level games, it is a skimmer. It is hit as normal. However, as long as you move, you get a 4+ invun save.

ljal
04-03-2012, 06:32
thx, so please tell me where is advantage of any AA mount like firestorm if any unit fires at aircraft as normal?

Son of Russ
04-03-2012, 09:37
An AA mount means that any fast moving skimmer does not get a cover save due to speed. This does not matter to Nightwings as it's not a cover save.

While the Firestorm is a nice model (I have one myself) their rules are utter pump. An anti aircraft tank that does not have the power to scratch the paint from aircraft? Awesome. My pathfinders are much more reliable for killing valks and Ravens

cynic
04-03-2012, 09:52
It will be interesting to see how much of this stuff actually makes it into the new Eldar codex.

Radium
04-03-2012, 11:47
I'm guessing not much. Apparently FW scrapped a number of units after discussing things with GWHQ, general consensus is those units will make it to the codex when it's finally released. However, I can't see GW NOT including a couple of aircraft, so a Nightwing and Phoenix (or new craft) could easily make it into the codex.

*EDIT*: as for the Darkfire thingy, I'd say it just takes the "shooting action" slot if you will, so it wouldn't prevent him from assaulting or require him to stand still for a turn or something. Going by that logic, it's perfectly okay to use it from a Venom or something. Seems like a proper Corsair-like thing to do, too: shrouding the battlefield in darkness while flying around at breakneck speeds just before you jump out of your skychariot and start chopping the now disoriented opponents into bits.

AlphariusOmegon20
04-03-2012, 15:48
They are stated as being Codex Eldar choices, thus entirely legal.

Hold on there. You have to establish before the game that you are using IA rules for the Nightwing to be a legitimate Codex choice. Just because you are using the Corsair List doesn't necessarily mean that it's a legitimate codex FA Choice.

If you haven't established that IA rules are legal, then you are restricted to using ONLY codex choices, which the Nightwing does not appear in the codex. Yes it could been seen as semantics, but there IS a difference between the two and what you have access to.

When using a list like this, you have to establish pre-game that both the List is acceptable to use and the IA rules themselves are acceptable to use. Your opponent does have the right to accept one or the other, both or neither.

Son of Russ
04-03-2012, 15:58
Obviously you ensure your opponent is okay with using FW rules. I always ask. However, if some says that certain fw rules can be used while others can't then they are an idiot.

You are using FW rules, your opponent doesn't get to pick and choose which rules are valid.

AndrewGPaul
04-03-2012, 16:08
Phoenix: Pricey, and fragile for its points even with the invulnerable save. How come IG's fliers got a big armor boost (AV 12 and extra armor for free) and this is still 10/10/10? Oh well. .

The Imperial Marauder bomber and Thunderbolt fighters - described as particularly well-armoured and resilient - are only Armour 10/10/10.

totgeboren
04-03-2012, 16:15
Neural Shredder: This is a pretty neat weapon in that itís an AP 1 Template weapon. At first it appears to be pretty hefty at Str 8, but it goes against LD not Toughness and without a way to actively diminish LD from your opponents itís not going to be as awesome as youíd first imagine it. Against vehicles it provides an automatic Penetrating hit, but only gives you a roll of D3 on the chart (+1 for AP1). I still think this is probably the most Unique and interesting piece of kit available in the list.

I just felt I have to point out that this weapon has been in the game since 2:ed. The Calidus assassin has one, and the rules have been approximately the above since 3:ed. Calling a copy-paste piece of kit 'Unique' feels kinda odd. :P

Shamana
04-03-2012, 16:43
The Imperial Marauder bomber and Thunderbolt fighters - described as particularly well-armoured and resilient - are only Armour 10/10/10.

I think it's just a matter of a shifting design philosophy. Many new or newly updated rulesets for fliers that also work in non-apocalypse games - like for the Vulture - tend to up the armour. The Marauder and Thunderbolt have older rules iirc, I wouldn't be surprised if they do get better armoured the next time we see them.

I honestly don't think 11/11/10 on the Phoenix was too much to hope for, but to be honest I'm not dead-set that it should have been the case. It's just one of the various things that bother me about the Phoenix's rules, which contrasts with what I consider a very good-looking model that I'd like to field (when I can afford it). As it is I'm really not sold on it, whether in a corsair or craftworld list. The price is very high, and even a 4++ save only gets so far when a heavy bolter can get a penetrating hit. It's more likely to make the cut in a corsair list because there aren't all that many alternatives - it's either a phoenix or a warp hunter, and I imagine people get sick of hunters at some point (not sick enough to field a Firestorm, probably). In the craftworld codex, which actually has a saturated HS slot, I just don't see Phoenices except in a theme list.

I'm going with my gut here, but they are more expensive than they should be by somewhere like 30-60 points. For the price of a stock phoenix you can get a stormraven with Typhoon ML - I'd say it would be at least its match in terms of firepower, survivability or maneuverability, not to mention the whole "assault transport" schtick.

TheDoctor
04-03-2012, 17:36
@Shamana
Totally agree with you on the phoenix, to me, the only heavy support option is the warp hunter. Though, I do not know if I will ever "get sick" of it.

But seriously, what type of a bad trip were the design team on when they made the points for the phoenix and firestorm?!?!
-Just under land raider cost for an AV 10/10/10 pseudo flyer?!
-Firestorm- Wave serpent with scatter laser-115 pts. +1 BS seems to be 15 pts across the board (130 pts for comparison). Now forgeworld is telling me that 50 pts is worth the reduction in transport capacity, the move to the heavy support slot, and giving the scatter laser an extra 2 feet of range and an extra 2 shots?

@Radium
The way i read the orbital strike thing. It follows normal rules for shooting. So if you don't have a jetpack, you have to stand still to shoot the ordnance weapons. If you do, you can move the 6". Irregardless of either one, you can use the darkfire skyburst.

AlphariusOmegon20
04-03-2012, 21:49
Obviously you ensure your opponent is okay with using FW rules. I always ask. However, if some says that certain fw rules can be used while others can't then they are an idiot.

You are using FW rules, your opponent doesn't get to pick and choose which rules are valid.

I hate to tell you, but yes they can and it doesn't make them an idiot for it.

Your opponent can choose to allow the list itself, but disallow the complete IA rules. It is perfectly in his or her right to do so and is quite common to do so, in my experience.

A good example is Mannimarco's vraksian renegades. His opponent could choose to allow him to use his list, but deny use of IA rules, stating that any Russ variant from the CODEX is fine, however he does not want to face IA tanks, making the Thunderer, Destroyer, and Conqueror out of bounds for the game. It is then up to mannimarco to decide if that is acceptable or not.

Also, an opponent can decide they never wish to play against any grey knight armies. That is also their right.

It's all about what both parties agree to pre-game. Just because someone doesn't want to play against something in an optional list does not make them an idiot and only shows your own closemindedness on this issue.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

AndrewGPaul
04-03-2012, 22:27
Well, yes, but now you're basically agreeing that there's no difference between rules from the Design Studio and rules from Forge World. :)


I think it's just a matter of a shifting design philosophy. Many new or newly updated rulesets for fliers that also work in non-apocalypse games - like for the Vulture - tend to up the armour. The Marauder and Thunderbolt have older rules iirc, I wouldn't be surprised if they do get better armoured the next time we see them.

The stats in the latest Apocalypse books, as well as the most recent Imperial armour update PDFs are the same. If you look at it, stuff designed to land or fly at low altitude during the game - Valkyries, Aquila Landers, Thunderhawk Gunships, etc - have decent armour, while stuff that's designed to shoot up the battlefield from a distance, like a proper aeroplane, is armour 10. While the Phoenix is a ground-attack aircraft, it's not really intended to get right down at treetop height, so it's armour 10 all round.

Son of Russ
04-03-2012, 23:10
Just because someone doesn't want to play against something in an optional list does not make them an idiot and only shows your own closemindedness on this issue.

I'm about as open minded as they come mate. Let's agree to disagree without any petty name calling.

In my experiance, you either play forgeworld or not. Not dictate what you opponent can pick from FW.

Fable
05-03-2012, 04:31
I'm about as open minded as they come mate. Let's agree to disagree without any petty name calling.

In my experiance, you either play forgeworld or not. Not dictate what you opponent can pick from FW.

I think being open minded is only half the battle. I'm lucky enough to have open minded opponents as well. Unfortunately there are quite a few players out there who outright refuse to play against FW models because there has been a lot of confusion about "official" rules and a stigma that hangs around FW because of it. Then again there is a growing contingent of players who have started turning down casual games against certain lists such as Leafblower or any Grey Knight list. The divide between competitive gamers and casual gamers seems to overlap less and less and in some cases is a very deep chasm.

Shamana
05-03-2012, 07:44
The stats in the latest Apocalypse books, as well as the most recent Imperial armour update PDFs are the same. If you look at it, stuff designed to land or fly at low altitude during the game - Valkyries, Aquila Landers, Thunderhawk Gunships, etc - have decent armour, while stuff that's designed to shoot up the battlefield from a distance, like a proper aeroplane, is armour 10. While the Phoenix is a ground-attack aircraft, it's not really intended to get right down at treetop height, so it's armour 10 all round.

Eh, I think that's kinda splitting straws. Had they just divided it into ground attack craft and air superiority craft, it would have been better imo - anything that shoots at ground targets should be expect to be shot back. We can try to justify what GW did, obviously, but we can try to justify anything. Right now it feels a bit weird - the craftworld's ground attack craft is less armoured than the DE version, and generally frailer for the points ;) .

Anyway, I think they really didn't hit the scoring there. Maybe I'm wishlisting, but somewhere around 170 points if it was AV 10 or 185 if it was AV 11 would have been a better fit. Compared to the nightwing it gets a pulse laser rather than 2 brightlances (I'd say slightly worse - better range but less effectiv against AV13+ and easier to destroy), the shurikens become AA-mounted (no point since the NW is an interceptor and gets the benefit anyway), and you get essentially 3 reaper launchers' worth of anti-MEQ dakka.While that's nice, 80 points' worth it ain't.

Son of Russ
05-03-2012, 09:10
I think being open minded is only half the battle. I'm lucky enough to have open minded opponents as well. Unfortunately there are quite a few players out there who outright refuse to play against FW models because there has been a lot of confusion about "official" rules and a stigma that hangs around FW because of it. Then again there is a growing contingent of players who have started turning down casual games against certain lists such as Leafblower or any Grey Knight list. The divide between competitive gamers and casual gamers seems to overlap less and less and in some cases is a very deep chasm.

Yeah, I've seen that online. Luckily, all my opponents are cool. I play Eldar but there are a fair few Blood Angel and Grey Knight armies. A damned good Guard player too. We rarely use our super powerful lists in our games unless play testing for a Tournie. We're all cool with FW as long as we give each other a little heads up.

Guess I'm just lucky with my club colleagues.

Solonor
05-03-2012, 10:52
Talking about tactics.

What do you guys think of a double Prince Darkfire list.

You load up on long range weaponry 36" or higher (squads of hornets and/or Wasp with pulse Laser, Scatters or EMLs; Corsair squads with lasblasters and EMLs, etc etc.)

with two princes using darkfire in the end of your first two shooting turns, and your squads using mobility to fire near maximum range and fall back you can be sure the return fire from your enemies will be reduced alot, of course planning must be made against deep strikers, acute senses and other fast aproaching lists, but one can be assured to have two turns off shotting superiority to take key enemy units to mop up the rest in the following turns.

Sile
05-03-2012, 11:51
Yeah, I've seen that online. Luckily, all my opponents are cool. I play Eldar but there are a fair few Blood Angel and Grey Knight armies. A damned good Guard player too. We rarely use our super powerful lists in our games unless play testing for a Tournie. We're all cool with FW as long as we give each other a little heads up.

Guess I'm just lucky with my club colleagues.

Same, I just guess it is all about the local meta.

Had a pretty cool guy for some giggles run 18 long fangs. Long story short, no one wants to play lists that aren't fun to play against. It doesn't matter if they're hard or tough, it seems that just when push comes to shove - people don't mind losing as long as it is hard fought.

As for the list, I think it definitely could synergise very well as a Saim Hann pseudo list. Sure the bikers are a bit more expensive, but they're slightly better. Being BS4, with TL they should be ok w/o doom. Harlies can be used as the counter assault, and the Warp Hunters + Nightwings should be able to deal with most lists <2k. Mech anything else up in Falcons, maybe a squad of Walkers, I can see this working pretty well.

Fable
05-03-2012, 15:08
Talking about tactics.

What do you guys think of a double Prince Darkfire list.

You load up on long range weaponry 36" or higher (squads of hornets and/or Wasp with pulse Laser, Scatters or EMLs; Corsair squads with lasblasters and EMLs, etc etc.)

with two princes using darkfire in the end of your first two shooting turns, and your squads using mobility to fire near maximum range and fall back you can be sure the return fire from your enemies will be reduced alot, of course planning must be made against deep strikers, acute senses and other fast aproaching lists, but one can be assured to have two turns off shotting superiority to take key enemy units to mop up the rest in the following turns.

To be honest I'm not much for the darkfire list on paper, but I haven't tried it out on the table top. That could potentially change my opinion. My current reasoning is this: Eldar are short range. While I find Nightfight is a useful aid to avoid getting blasted off the table early game you have to close in to engage your enemy. If you're enacting NF after you've already closed in in order to engage then NF isn't going to have that much of an effect.

All that said I think if you were going to go ahead with that build it would need to have a list built around it. You'd probably need as many EMLs as you could stuff in and nothing shorter than a 36" range. You're going to have to stay back and depend on your firepower for the first two turns and then press forward very quickly after that hoping that you thinned the enemy enough early game that they can't mount a response adequately. I'd love to hear if you try it out and have success with it.


As for the list, I think it definitely could synergise very well as a Saim Hann pseudo list. Sure the bikers are a bit more expensive, but they're slightly better. Being BS4, with TL they should be ok w/o doom. Harlies can be used as the counter assault, and the Warp Hunters + Nightwings should be able to deal with most lists <2k. Mech anything else up in Falcons, maybe a squad of Walkers, I can see this working pretty well.

It hadn't occured to me how good the corsair list would be for acting as a Saim Hann list, but I can see it now that you mention it. It probably works better thematically than the standard book in many ways.

Stonerhino
05-03-2012, 18:13
I think the army list plays more like a Ulthwe style strike force. With WWP Void Dreamers and BS4 all over the place. Or a fully meched up Ulthwe war host. Just replce Corsairs with Black Guardians. It would be nice to mix in more psykers to make it more authentic. But it's not bad without them. They are back with the Guardians in a support/planning role.

If I still had the models and bought some Warp Hunters I would play it like:

HQ:
Void Dreamer w/Witch Blade+Neural Shredder
Void Dreamer w/Witch Blade+Neural Shredder

Elite:
Fire Dragon outcast X9
__Wave Serpent w/Bright Lance

Troops:
Corsair Squad X10 w/2XEML
Corsair Squad X10 w/2XEML
Corsair Squad X5 one being a Felarch w/Shuriken Catapults+Fusion Gun+Fusion Pistol
__Facon Grav Tank w/Shriken Cannon+Spirit Stones
Corsair Squad X5 one being a Felarch w/Shuriken Catapults+Fusion Gun+Fusion Pistol
__Facon Grav Tank w/Shriken Cannon+Spitit Stones
Corsair Squad X6 w/EML
__Facon Grav Tank w/bright Lance
Corsair Squad X6 w/EML
__Facon Grav Tank w/bright Lance

Heavy Support:
Warp Hunter
Warp Hunter
Warp Hunter

1,999 points
8 Facon chasis

TheDoctor
05-03-2012, 19:28
Talking about tactics.

What do you guys think of a double Prince Darkfire list.

You load up on long range weaponry 36" or higher (squads of hornets and/or Wasp with pulse Laser, Scatters or EMLs; Corsair squads with lasblasters and EMLs, etc etc.)

with two princes using darkfire in the end of your first two shooting turns, and your squads using mobility to fire near maximum range and fall back you can be sure the return fire from your enemies will be reduced alot, of course planning must be made against deep strikers, acute senses and other fast aproaching lists, but one can be assured to have two turns off shotting superiority to take key enemy units to mop up the rest in the following turns.

To me, there are a couple of major concerns.

First, you are paying 200+ points for essentially 2 solar pulses.
-The points spent on their ability to deep strike 6 units is wasted.
-They are not even that good in Combat.

Second, if you don't get first turn, the enemy is free to alpha strike you to death, as the solar pulse has to be fired in the Prince's turn, and without the reserve manipulation of the autarch, there is no easy way to get around this.
-The way I would mitigate this is by turboboosting scouting hornets in front of my other stuff. Thereby everyone at least gets a cover save

That being said, if I wanted to do a corsair list using this tactic, this list is probably something I would use: (2000 the points of my local area)

HQ
Corsair Prince 135 pts
-Void Sabre, Forceshield

Corsair Prince 135 pts
-Void Sabre, Forceshield

Troops
Corsair Squad (x10) 145 pts (x4 squads) 580 pts
-x2 EML's, Jetpacks

Fast Attack
Hornet Squadron (x2) 170 pts
-x4 Scatter Lasers

Hornet Squadron (x2) 170 pts
-x4 Scatter Lasers

Heavy Support
Warp Hunter 125 pts (x3) 375 pts

Elites
Harlequins (x8) 228 pts
-x6 Kisses, Troupe Master (power weapon), Death Jester, Shadowseer

Fire Dragons (x5) 80 pts

Kabalite Warriors (x5) 60 pts (125 pts)
-Blaster
Venom 65 pts
-Dual Splinter Cannons

Princes Run with Harlies, who can operate closer to enemy lines thanks to shadowseer, on the charge, you've got 10 models with S4 rending, usually hitting on 3's. Not as good as some, but still respectable.

Fire Dragons deepstrike

Kabalites add poisoned shooting and a lance weapon.

Scout move the hornets in front of the warp hunters if cover is not available for warp hunters.

Harlequins are placed in front of your corsair squads.

Now everyone either gets cover or is un-targetable in case you get second turn.

Fable
05-03-2012, 22:59
Elite:
Fire Dragon outcast X9
__Wave Serpent w/Bright Lance


Just out of curiosity, why 9? Seems like some major overkill.

Stonerhino
06-03-2012, 08:10
They are there for when something has to die. In those cases it's better to overkill then not kill enough.

Austinitor
06-03-2012, 21:37
I'm guessing not much. Apparently FW scrapped a number of units after discussing things with GWHQ, general consensus is those units will make it to the codex when it's finally released. However, I can't see GW NOT including a couple of aircraft, so a Nightwing and Phoenix (or new craft) could easily make it into the codex.
This is interesting, albeit disheartening. Given the number of old IA units "promoted" into codices like IG, I'd love to see some sort of sourced account of this new policy, e.g. "This FW 'bloke' told me this on this occasion", like an open day or Adepticon or something.

AlphariusOmegon20
06-03-2012, 22:06
This is interesting, albeit disheartening. Given the number of old IA units "promoted" into codices like IG, I'd love to see some sort of sourced account of this new policy, e.g. "This FW 'bloke' told me this on this occasion", like an open day or Adepticon or something.

GW has stated that they will not do that again, though. They do not wish to step on FW's toes any more than they have.

That being said, the first test of this will most likely be the new Chaos Space marine codex, on whether or not Dreadclaws get added in. If we see Dreadclaws, then we know that that premise didn't hold or GW and FW came to an agreement about it. If we see something else that does the same thing, we know that statement from GW is the new standing policy on what we can expect to see in further codexes.

Austinitor
06-03-2012, 23:37
then we know that that premise didn't hold or GW and FW came to an agreement about it.Interesting test theory. I hope there is, indeed, a clear test case. Seeing the DE fighter replacement might not be a clear enough case of such... or a recent enough instance. Really, though, without knowing when the studio and FW came to this agreement makes it a bit hard to see where the old policy of cannibalizing IA units started and this new era begins (or begun).

Like yourself, I've seen that rumor before, but simply haven't seen anyone claim that it was claimed by this FW/studio go at such and such event on such and such a date.

Anyway, sorry to detract from the discussion at hand, but I do suspect most of the other readers are equally interested in what will happen to our beloved army when they're finally given a codex to match a current edition of the rules (and hopefully, costed competitively; I was the lone CE player at a 64-seat GT this last weekend, with something like 60 seats filled).

On another matter, the notion of running my jetbike hoard as Corsairs is something I hadn't much considered, but am now seriously doing so (at least for friendly games; I would so love the opportunity to field IA units more commonly).

Sile
07-03-2012, 13:22
Corsairs really actually remind me of just a series of DAVUs.

I know it was mentioned earlier as "more expensive Razorbacks" but really? REALLY? Falcons are like the Steel-Capped shoes of an ANGRY ODIN! They take way more punishment.

I think the fact your HS isn't cluttered with rubbish, you could DAVU up, since Corsairs are cheap.

I think as Corsairs 2-3 Warp Hunters are mandatory.

Fable
07-03-2012, 17:55
but I do suspect most of the other readers are equally interested in what will happen to our beloved army when they're finally given a codex to match a current edition of the rules (and hopefully, costed competitively; I was the lone CE player at a 64-seat GT this last weekend, with something like 60 seats filled).

I think for those of us who only collect one army it is a long stretch between codexes.


I think as Corsairs 2-3 Warp Hunters are mandatory.

I don't even really consider filling all 3 heavy support spots all that required in a Corsair list with the Nightwing and Hornets readily available in Fast Attack.


GW has stated that they will not do that again, though. They do not wish to step on FW's toes any more than they have.


I, also, have seen no real confirmation of that. Even though it hasn't happened in a dex essentially since the Nid dex I think it says more about the dexes they've been releasing than any prohibition against it. They already made the Nightspinner redundant with the GW kit. I still expect Eldar to get two aircraft in the Codex and I fully expect them to be a plastic Nightwing and plastic Phoenix Bomber (though probably with totally revamped rules).

TheDoctor
07-03-2012, 19:20
Corsairs really actually remind me of just a series of DAVUs.

I know it was mentioned earlier as "more expensive Razorbacks" but really? REALLY? Falcons are like the Steel-Capped shoes of an ANGRY ODIN! They take way more punishment.

I think the fact your HS isn't cluttered with rubbish, you could DAVU up, since Corsairs are cheap.

I think as Corsairs 2-3 Warp Hunters are mandatory.

Actually, it is the same amount of points if you do not take any upgrades on the corsairs. You save 15 points over dire avengers, but your tanks cost 15 more points.

And 2-3 Warp Hunters are good, but I've been finding that Hornets are AMAZING. Support them with some corsair jetbikes, and you have a very fast, very powerful flanking force that will get 3+/4+ cover on turn one guaranteed. Then your falcons and warp hunters hold the main line, and you've got a very good army, and sadly something better than the eldar codex can put out.