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Jahxius
25-04-2006, 01:57
Hey there, I am pretty new to fantasy (although I have played 40k for over 4 years.) I have tried out a few battles with a 400pt lizardmen force and now I think its time to expand to 1000pts. I was hoping for some feedback on this list. Thanks to all those who reply :)

well here it is.

HEROS

Sarus-Scar Vet Itza-Gor - 121pts
Spear, Shield, Light Armor, Cold one, Spawning of Itzl.

Skink Priest Kai-Tenq - 100pts
Lvl.2

CORE UNITS

X10 skinks - 70pts
blowpipes, scouts

X10 skinks - 70pts
blowpipes, scouts

X10 skinks - 70pts
blowpipes, scouts

X10 skinks - 70pts
blowpipes, scouts

X12 saurus warriors - 96pts
hand weapons, shields

X12 saurus warriors - 96pts
hand weapons, shields

SPECIAL UNITS

X7 saurus cavalry - 245pts * THE SCAR VET ACCOMPANIES THE CAVALRY*
hand weapons, shields, spears

RARE UNITS

X1 Salamander - 65pts

Total points: 1003pts

Again thanks to all those who reply :0

Kroxhandler
25-04-2006, 13:08
Welcome to WHFB, great choice of starting army:D.

First off, I'd skip the obvious details in any unit descriptions you post. We all know everyone( well, practically everyone) have handweapons. we all know Saurus Cavalry have Shields and spears, they can't not have them! The only time you need to mention what kind of equipment or weapon a unit has is if it has a choice, like skinks can have either blowpipes or Javelins&Shields. Just put down what choice you've made(pipes or javs.) and that's all the info we need. Keep it simple and spare the poor eyesight of your fellow members here at Warseer. Thanks.;)

You've got a nice setup of Heroes, a scar-vet and a lvl.2 priest seems just about right for 1kpts. I'll get back to them in a little while, for now I just say good choice. *thumbs up*

The large amount of scouting skink you have could work, they would be all over the enemy in no time, shooting darts all over the place. One thing to consider is if there is going to be space enough to place all those 40 skinks, scouting rules required you to be 10" away from your opponents units and out of sight. Even with dense terrain a sly opponent can set some light cav. , fliers or whatever to deny you most of the space near their army. You might do better with only 2 units of 10 Scouting skinks, making the remaining 2 units regular skinks. Those regular skinks would also serve as a great meatshield for your cavalry, keeping enemy troops away and setting your opponent up by acting as bait.
The Saurus Cavalry is quite nice, only thing missing is perhaps a standard. You can bet your enemy will have a standard in her/his unit, that's an automatic +1 to Combat Resolution in their favour. Get a standard of your own and even out the score. While your at it, why not look over the selection of magical standards? Banner of Huanchi is a winner, a War Banner is also a good investment. With the fearcausing Cold Ones you only have to win combat and you autobreak the enemy( unless of course they are immune to fear), no break test required, Stubborn doesn't help etc. Really powerful. With the big bite of your army tied up in the single unit of cavalry you should probably be tooling the rest of your army up to support it. Taking Saurus Cavalry in a 1kpts game is a bit of a gamble, they will take up a sizable chunk of your points and are a bit vulnerable to shooting/magic. Still it might pay off if you manage to keep them safe and get to charge with them.

The 2 units of Saurus Warriors are quite useless in this list I'm afraid, the 4 unit of skinks will be far off into enemy land, the Cavalry and Salamander will quickly be outrunning them and the Warriors will be left slogging slowly over the field. They will only arrive at the enemy once the Cavalry has had a turn or two of fighting( unless you play chicken and only crawl forward with your Cav., not recommended). In that case the cavalry will most likely either have crushed the enemy or taking a severe beating themselves. Looking at the equipment and options on your Warriors I can say they are illegal. 12 pts a piece, not 8! Without ranks or standards these Warriors doesn't play to the usual strength of Saurus Warriors, providing static CR to the Lizardmen army. Put a standard in and merge them into one big unit if you are going to play with Warriors is my advice. At least if your are going to be using them in conjunction with Saurus Cavalry. Still I think the difference in speed between the them and the rest of the army makes them somewhat obsolete.

Another option would be to play MSU(Multiple Small Units?), using them just the way they are( minus the cost error) and be ready to flee with them in order to give another unit a flank charge. One crucial option then would be to add Musicians to the units as they make it easier to rally later on. Standards in this case would be more questionable as they give your opponent 100VP( I think) each if they manage to overrun a unit. The one thing you will be relying on here to win combats is getting flanks, there is usually no way you can kill enough enemy models to make up for the fact that they will be having +4 CR from 3 ranks and a standard. The lack of the same advantages is what would make this approach very weak against Heavy Cavalry and Chariots, chances are that you won't be able to stand up to a charge from either of these units. You will most likely be dependant on some units to back up on this.

Fear not, the Jungle Swarms are here! Jungle Swarms are a bit expensive but can be worth their weight in gold. They're fast enough to keep up with the Saurus Cav. and nimble enough to get to where they are supposed to be. If playing MSU stick them in between your saurus and any dangerous units(Heavy cav, Chariots, Elite infantry), they will take any chargers and hold them there for until you can deal with them. Take 2 or 3 bases and the enemy has to munch through 10/15 wounds before they get loose from charging the swarms. Not many units are capable to inflict that many wounds on the charge, they will often be stuck for at least 2-3 rounds, maybe more. This gives you ample time to finish what your are doing and turn your attention towards the attackers. Great tarpits/meatshields.

Salamanders are a godsend, as I expect you've discovered as well, a real gem in the Lizardmen army. Take two if you have the points left(avoid taking three of them, that's just over the top and not very fair). Again, *thumbs up*.

About those heroes....A scar-vet on a Cold one is a mighty force indeed, though it's almost 30 pts for that mount(Cold One + Itzl). I'd like to argue that the Scar-vet can do more use elsewhere, going cavalry is a very costly way. And then you miss out on one of the Scar-vets great skills, chariot hunting! S5 with a GW nets you S7 attacks, which shatter chariots(and steam tanks if I'm not mistaken) and a lot of other tincans without breaking a sweat. There is an excellent magical item, Charm of the Jaguar Warrior(a.k.a. PumaShoes) that gives you M9(!), but only if you are on foot. Here's a common build for a Jaguar Scar-vet Of Doom(JSOD):
GW, Jag.Charm, Ench.Shield - 121pts(sounds familiar?) 2+Sv against missiles, S7 attacks and M9. Enough to pop a lot of chariots and slam into Heavy Cavalries with a good chance of driving them off.
Antother good use for the Scar-vet is as a frontfigure for one of your MSU saurus units, add a serious punch. If you wanted you could go all the way and throw out the Saurus Cavalry in favor for a second Scar-vet, who could act as BSB. A BSB scar-vet with Sword of the Hornet( Strikes first, charge it if you dare!) costs about 140pts, you can add any magical banner and perhaps a sacred spawning or two to that. Banner of Huanchi and sacred spawning of Tepok+Quetzl takes you down to a 3+ save in combat and a once in a battle D6 movement during the magic phase for the unit it is with. Your opponent will certainly not see that coming!

The skink priest is just about right for 1000pts, though you could add some equipment to it. A dispel scroll or two if you plan on having some magic defence. The Diadem of Power would allow you to shift 2 dice to accommidate any enemy, either you have 5 dispel dice against a magic heavy enemy or you get 6 power dice to use on your 2 spells. Of course you don't have to shift over all two dice, you can shift 0-2 dice.

Here's a suggestion to an alternative 1k army:

1 Scar-vet(Light armour, Shield, Sacred spawning of Quetzl, Great Weapon, Jag.Charm, Glyph Necklace) 158pts (2+/5+ save:D )
1 Skink Priest(lvl.2, Dispel Scroll) 125pts
1 Skink Priest(Diadem of Power) 100pts
2 Jungle Swarms 120pts
10 Skinks(Scouts, Pipes) 70pts
10 Skinks(Scouts, Pipes) 70pts
10 Skinks(Jav&Shields) 60pts
4 Kroxigors 232pts
1 Salamander 65pts
1000pts even, 43 models. PD/DD: 3-7 / 2-6 (Diadem allows some versatility)
4 Kroxigors cost about the same as the Saurus Cavalry, they've got almost the same movement and more importantly they can charge through the skink screen. Use the Javelin-Skinks to screen the Kroxigors and the Swarms to pin enemy units before the assault. With the free-ranging Scar-vet and the Kroxigors you should be able to break most units, especially if you manage to pin the unit with Swarms and get a flank with the kroxigors. Use the 2 units of scouting skinks to take out any war machines, the Scar-vet can actually help if necessary(M9 takes you a far,far away in a hurry). The two priests have 3 spells between them with a variable amount of dice to use on them. Either go defensive with only 3(good for one spell), leaving you with 6 DD, or go offensive with 7(good for 2 spells at 2 dice and one at 3 dice). This should make for a very adaptable magic defence.

Kroxigors vs. Saurus Cavalry is an old debate, use whichever you think is best.

Alex Under
26-04-2006, 16:28
For 1000 pt games I like very mobile armies, as 1 wrong turn with your nice infantry unit and that's it, 'cos you only have one or two in the whole army. I think your list is great, but after looking at Kroxhandler's, I think his is a winner.

Jahxius
26-04-2006, 22:08
Thanks for the advice I apprieciate it, however I do have one inquiry, I am not quite convinced on Jungle swarms, do you believe it would be a good I dea to replace the swarm with an additional kroxigor and another salamander?

The Devil's Right Hand
26-04-2006, 22:48
no, because that would make a front of 5 kroxies, which, when they impact on the flank of your target regiment, will mean 1 will be out of Base to Base and have to attacks. its a waste of points.
swarms are gold. think about it. 10 wounds for 2 of them, and they're unbreakable. with your fast little delacate army all you have to do is slam those little bugs into the biggest baddest enemy block thats threatening your grand master plan. and that unit is stuck there fighting your swarms for like 2-3 turns! plenty of time to move on and outflank that target.
i've played with a similar army to this one, its pretty effective. i however do love my saurus blocks....

Kroxhandler
28-04-2006, 22:31
Dropping jungle swarms in favour of salamanders might be a valid choice, sallies are quite good and if you aren't very dependant on unbreakable swarms then it's no big loss. Just like The Devil's Right Hand said, exchanging them for a unit of 5 kroxigors is usually not a good idea, hard to get them all into bsb, difficult to wheel and manouver correctly. Jungle Swarms are arguably a bit overprized, not to mention suffers greatly from the 0-1 unit choice, but fill an important role in most Lizardmen armies. I'd say Jungle Swarms, Skinks and Salamanders are must-haves for Lizardmen. You can build strong lists without them but they make it a whole lot easier. Just look over the stats and rules for Jungle Swarms and pit them against some of your opponents scariest units, they usually hold out pretty well. Against monsters, like DE War hydras, their 5 poisoned attacks per base can very dangerous. I've wiped the smirk of my opponents face a number of times by just cruching his large scary monster on the charge with 2 bases of Swarms. They can possibly be a very effective dragonslayer, unbreakable and posion goes a long way.

As a rule of thumb I try to take a Salamander every 500 pts, they are just too frustratingly good, going overboard and hogging all the possible salamanders will most likely make your opponent bored. Unless you're playing at a tournament, or just want to plain win, take as many as you can(3 at 1000 pts is quite powerful), otherwise I'd advice you to follow my lead. 1 every 500 pts, that's usually enough.

One very effective type of Lizardmen army is built with kroxigors, swarms and skinks. Highly mobile and with distinct roles for each unit. Hard to master but very competitive. MSU is also quite nasty in the right hands but again a bit difficult to get the hang of right at the start. I really hope you'll try these types of armies out once you've gotten some more WHFB battles under your belt.

EDIT:
I've found one of my old lists, seems like 1500pts. Thought I'd share it in hopes of giving someone some ideas: (Sacred host of Quetzl)
1 Scar-vet(LA,Sh,GW,Jag.Charm,Quetzl)
1 Priest(Quetzl, Diadem)
1 Chief(Scout, LA, xhw. LA, Sh, Quetzl, Cloak of feathers)
10 Skinks(Scouts, pipes, Quetzl)
10 Skinks(Jav&Sh, Quetzl)
10 Skinks(Jav&Sh, Quetzl)
10 Skinks(Jav&Sh, Quetzl)
3 Jungle Swarms
3 Kroxigors
3 Terradons
5 Saurus Cavalry(Banner of Huanchi)
3 Salamanders

Exactly 1500 pts, PD/DD: 3/3. Priest has Lore of Death and all the Skinks 6+ scaly skin. See WD#300 or the GW webpage for more info on Sacred Hosts. Good deal of hardhitters(Krox, JSOD and Cavalry) combined with a large number of Skinks and some Jungle Swarms for stickyness. The Skink Chief is a experiment, could be great at taking out warmachines(scouting, flyer and 4 WS4 S4 attacks!).