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Iracundus
05-06-2005, 09:33
For those that also have the Tyranid Codex, what do you think is Kryptmann's fate after the success of his gamble? Still on the run or back in the Inquisition? On one hand he's bought the Imperium time from Hive Fleet Leviathan but at the cost of an even greater threat in the future.

athamas
05-06-2005, 10:13
i expect he is still on the run, as no one knows why the nids veared off, thus he has not told any one....

McBain
05-06-2005, 14:57
I fear that this may be one of the threads of 40k lore that they leave hanging such as what happened to the voice of the emporer on the return to the rock.....

who knwo the next stage of the story may happen soon or may wait till the gw decide the time is right.

Iracundus
05-06-2005, 15:00
They didn't leave that thread hanging. Read the wrapup of the Eye of Terror carefully and it says the "Voice of the Emperor" (aka Cypher) had escaped from the cell of the ship transporting him to the Rock and had vanished.

milmot
06-06-2005, 08:26
What has Cypher got to do with Kryptman?

athamas
06-06-2005, 08:30
nothing, but he was 'stranded in the fluff' like Kryptman and was being used as an example!

Rich
06-06-2005, 11:03
I think its possible that the Orks will come out on top - especially if the Imperium gives them a helping hand by attacking nid ships in space and generally trying to tip the scales.

Barbarossa
06-06-2005, 12:51
So there is new fluff for Kryptman? I really like that guy; he'd be the reason for me to start an ordo xenos force. So what did they write about him?

Xhalax
06-06-2005, 18:22
Basically....
He was declared Excommunicate Traitoris after he condemed billions of souls to death via Exterminatus to stop on the tendrils of Hive Fleet Leviathan.

Khaine's Messenger
07-06-2005, 01:51
:eyebrows: Was this before or after the events of Warriors of Ultramar?

Iracundus
07-06-2005, 02:04
After that. The events of that book was just a stopgap solution that temporarily kept communication open to those other systems within the closing tendrils of Leviathan.

Xhalax
07-06-2005, 12:05
After

He made a cordon on planets in the path of Leviathan. Some were evacuated but others were too slow. He waited until the Nids had descended on the planets numbers, thinking that the more energy the Nids expend to consume a planet, the weaker they will be if they're denied the planet.
Then he declared Exertimatus on the cordon planets to deny them to the Nids. Killing billions of people in the process.

just
08-06-2005, 03:34
They didn't leave that thread hanging. Read the wrapup of the Eye of Terror carefully and it says the "Voice of the Emperor" (aka Cypher) had escaped from the cell of the ship transporting him to the Rock and had vanished.

And thats not having it hanging?

Anyway, as to the actions of Kryptmann. It sounds to me that the Imperium must definitly be getting softer. After all, they always supported the notion that the end did infact justify the means. Ursakar Kreed blew up a planet in an attempt to stop Chaos, yet stil ended up loosing the capitol on Cadia and having to relocate to Kasr Gallan and got a pat on the back for good effort.

neXus6
08-06-2005, 03:43
I'd have to agree with just. That kind of tactic does seem like that kind that has mostly been advocated. However you can look at it another way. He killed billions of people, that is probably pretty bad for public relations and when you are trying to fight off a tyranid fleet the last thing you need is the people rising up against you.
Scape goat? Cause the people would not argue with the idea that the man was a traitor and murderer if declaired so yet if he was hailed as a hero there would almost definatly be a problem.

just
08-06-2005, 04:49
Like the people of the Imperium will ever open "The Imperium of Man Daily" and see "Genocide by mad inquisitor" on the front page.

Its more like "Say, what happend to planet Lambtotheslaughter?" "The tyranids ate it, those bastards. Go get revenge."

neXus6
08-06-2005, 04:53
True, but it is possible that "upper eschelon" people knew about it and thought it was a bit to drastic. I mean sure it slowed them down but did it slow them down as much as giving every man woman and child on each of the planets a las-gun would haveI mean their only xenos?

*clutches his Uplifting Primer*
:p

just
08-06-2005, 05:02
I see two problems with that.

Firstly, the logistics of getting each man, woman and child on the planets a lasgun in time might be hard.

Secondly, don't the Tyranids absorp the genetic material of what they eat and use it in their evolution? I mean that leaveing a sizable number of inhabitable planets to defend for themselves and ultimatly be consumed by a hive fleet would ultimatly make the hivefleet stronger and grow faster?

neXus6
08-06-2005, 05:10
The average civilians don't know that. :)

Basicly he would only be declaired traitor if those higher up didn't agree with his actions and it's pretty likely that those people knew what he was planning cause I'm sure you don't just snap your fingers and have instant exterminatus so others would know.

just
08-06-2005, 05:19
I tell you, what really got him declared Tratitoris was that one of the High Lords of Terras summer estate was on one of those planets.

neXus6
08-06-2005, 05:22
LoL, quite probably, waste that many planets and your bound to get on someone's nerves, someone who holds petty grudges and has the power to get revenge.

The pestilent 1
08-06-2005, 23:07
LoL, quite probably, waste that many planets and your bound to get on someone's nerves, someone who holds petty grudges and has the power to get revenge.

you mean the Imperium is corrupt?
good heavens :p

Still, if the gambit works youve got yourself one very big Ork empire, and who knows, they must just wipe eachother out.
or, ya know, the tyranids wipe the ork empire out and emerge on the other side with a butt load more genetic material to call their own.

neXus6
08-06-2005, 23:45
Hmm...thing is the Nids would have to wipe out every ork at the same time to defeat them cause I'm pretty sure that Ork spores (god I hate that pice of background but oh well) would be able to re-estabilish themselves on a dead planet. Hard little blighters. :p

Xisor
09-06-2005, 01:19
What I imagine would be a very bizzare effect is if Ork Spores managed to settle inside a Hiveship or any other Nid Vessel....

Initially the orks might completely gain control on the inside but be able to *do* nothing with the ship. Wow, Ork infected Nid ships! Roll 1d6 Each turn, if it comes up a 1 roll on the critical hit table!

Xisor

boogle
09-06-2005, 18:42
that will be fun as rippers often inhabit dead planets as well

Hideous Loon
09-06-2005, 21:34
Thus, we can have a series of battles, telling the story of a backwater Ork encampment on a world the Tyranids already have "eaten", so to speak. (Say that they'd be Snakebites or sumfink.) Then, a horde of Rippers arrive, attacking the Ork encampment. You would of course have special rules för each battle, unofficial as they may be. I haven't even peeked in the new Tyranid codex, so I don't know whether you can have an army, largely consisting of Rippers, so you would have to "make" an army of Rippers, but the idea is pretty cool, admit that. The downside of it is that you would have to paint vast amounts of the little blighters, and IIRC they don't have a box set.

+edited for spelling. Have a nice day+

neXus6
09-06-2005, 22:59
that will be fun as rippers often inhabit dead planets as well

First time I've ever heard of that...I thought Rippers were used to strip the surface of a planet then they were absorbed back into the hive ships when their done eating. Leaving things behind doesn't seem very 'nid like, Stealers, Cults and Lictors strike me as the only "subtle" elements of the army.

Mind you most of my knowledge of the Nids comes from the 2nd ed codex.

athamas
09-06-2005, 23:03
no, rippers can survive exterminatus!

when the hive mind senses the aproaching destructuin, the rippers bury themselves in the ground, away from the harmful effects of whatever weapon is being used,

when the threat is gon they come back to the surface, somtimes of their own acord to try to call the fleet or something, other times they seem to hide till a nid hive mind comes in range...

i think it depends on the circumstances, the info was in the 3ed codex!

neXus6
09-06-2005, 23:05
LoL, that's cool. Very cool indeed.
Well the Orks would eventually win cause they would come out then drop their own spores while the rippers while more numerous don't constantly get new troops...well it would work that way till the hive mind noticed anyway. :p

athamas
09-06-2005, 23:08
hmmm, what about genestealers, would they work on orks?


yes orks would win in that senario, but so would impirial gaurd :p,


orks vs gaunts, now that would be fun!

Illuminarch
10-06-2005, 00:17
no, rippers can survive exterminatus!

when the hive mind senses the aproaching destructuin, the rippers bury themselves in the ground, away from the harmful effects of whatever weapon is being used,

when the threat is gon they come back to the surface, somtimes of their own acord to try to call the fleet or something, other times they seem to hide till a nid hive mind comes in range...

i think it depends on the circumstances, the info was in the 3ed codex!

Sound like another case of GW's lack of consistency. Would the Rippers be able to survive when the crust itself is devastated? Beyond GW's ridiculously stupid "Virus" and "Cyclonic" missile ideas, Horus's bombardment of Earth made the planet's tectonic plates "heave" and "split", vast swaths of land were erased, large bodies of water flash-boiled, etc... Maybe they can't/don't pull a Base Delta Zero, but this certainly seems to be the more logical method of Extermiantus, especially when dealing with xenos who even the simplest Adept Biologis would be skeptical of bio-warfare affecting.

Illuminarch
10-06-2005, 00:19
First time I've ever heard of that...I thought Rippers were used to strip the surface of a planet then they were absorbed back into the hive ships when their done eating. Leaving things behind doesn't seem very 'nid like, Stealers, Cults and Lictors strike me as the only "subtle" elements of the army.

Mind you most of my knowledge of the Nids comes from the 2nd ed codex.

You're correct, it's just that GW changes it's mind every so many years.

Anyway, about Kryptmann, isn't he the one who said, "Of creatures most foul, I beheld the lord of all and knew that I was dead."

I always wondered how he managed to write that. Maybe he was dictating...

athamas
10-06-2005, 00:43
Sound like another case of GW's lack of consistency. Would the Rippers be able to survive when the crust itself is devastated? Beyond GW's ridiculously stupid "Virus" and "Cyclonic" missile ideas, Horus's bombardment of Earth made the planet's tectonic plates "heave" and "split", vast swaths of land were erased, large bodies of water flash-boiled, etc... Maybe they can't/don't pull a Base Delta Zero, but this certainly seems to be the more logical method of Extermiantus, especially when dealing with xenos who even the simplest Adept Biologis would be skeptical of bio-warfare affecting.

the viral bombs turn everything to methane then burn the planet, by being underground the rippers avoid the virus and the flames!


they dont go the whole wack on fire bombing the planets, they simply burn the surface removing most of the biomass and atmospher, denying the nids of the one thing they want....


the whole anniholating the planet takes too long, the nids would be able to intercept ssome of the stuff, so insted thery create a fire storm then run!

Cheitan Shadowless
10-06-2005, 00:55
the viral bombs turn everything to methane then burn the planet, by being underground the rippers avoid the virus and the flames!What the fudge? Viral = virus-based. How would a virus-based weapon "turn everything to methane"? And where'd you even get that piece of information? :wtf:

Illuminarch
10-06-2005, 02:20
the viral bombs turn everything to methane then burn the planet, by being underground the rippers avoid the virus and the flames!

I just want to emphasize what a stupid idea it is to have Virus Bombs, in addition to releasing viruses, be some sort of super-incendiary, as it would, you know, kill the virus.



they dont go the whole wack on fire bombing the planets, they simply burn the surface removing most of the biomass and atmospher, denying the nids of the one thing they want....

Yeah, I suppose in that case it might not be worth it to BDZ the whole planet.

Illuminarch
10-06-2005, 02:21
What the fudge? Viral = virus-based. How would a virus-based weapon "turn everything to methane"? And where'd you even get that piece of information? :wtf:

Unfortunately, athamas is essentially correct. I haven't heard the "turns everything to methane" bit, but I've read fluff stating the virus bombs were huge incendiary devices that burn off the atmosphere and obliterate large geographical areas with explosions in addition to releasing viruses. Pretty dumb.

Delicious Soy
10-06-2005, 03:18
I think this orginally comes from the description of Horus bombardment of the Istvaan system. He virus bombed the planet with the life eater virus, killing just about everythings. Admist the panic, a huge firestorm engulfed the planet as all that dead tissue fueled the fires. It wasn't that the virus bombs themselves set off the fires but that the fires were ignited by other means and fed by the sudden release of masses of gases from rotting corpses.

sulla
10-06-2005, 06:44
Sound like another case of GW's lack of consistency. Would the Rippers be able to survive when the crust itself is devastated? Beyond GW's ridiculously stupid "Virus" and "Cyclonic" missile ideas, Horus's bombardment of Earth made the planet's tectonic plates "heave" and "split", vast swaths of land were erased, large bodies of water flash-boiled, etc... Maybe they can't/don't pull a Base Delta Zero, but this certainly seems to be the more logical method of Extermiantus, especially when dealing with xenos who even the simplest Adept Biologis would be skeptical of bio-warfare affecting.

Not inconsistent at all. The story in the codex is simply a warning that on a few occassions, Tyranid creature have been known to survive even exterminatus. If you don't believe it is possible then you have obviously never lived somewhere with either mice or cockroaches. No matter how powerful your local 'exterminatus' on those vermin, there always seem to be one or two who survive. :mad:

Plus, remember, Tyranids are not stupid. Any 'exterminatus' will have to be carried out in the presence of a hostile Tyranid fleet so odds are it will not be totally thourough.

Oh, and BTW, horus's attack on earth didn't even manage to kill off all the humans, so i hardly think it is the best example to base your argument on. ;)


Sulla

Cheitan Shadowless
12-06-2005, 14:50
Unfortunately, athamas is essentially correct. I haven't heard the "turns everything to methane" bit, but I've read fluff stating the virus bombs were huge incendiary devices that burn off the atmosphere and obliterate large geographical areas with explosions in addition to releasing viruses. Pretty dumb.
:wtf:
Wow. That's just...wow.
:wtf:

ryng_sting
15-03-2006, 18:17
The ancient Kryptmann is still alive, still on the run, and still determined nevertheless to stop Hive Fleet Leviathan. Though he has been cast out the Inquisition under the Carter Extremis, he has some Deathwatch and Astropaths loyal to him. The Imperium has knows he's responsible for diverting Leviathan into the Ork-held Octavius sector, in spite of their ostracising of him.

Havoc
15-03-2006, 20:24
how many planets did he comdem to death

Damokles
15-03-2006, 21:07
also remember, that declaring him a traitor or criminal is a political decision, and basically, political decisions must not necessarily be good (or logical) decisions, in fact only the fewest are...

ryng_sting
17-03-2006, 17:51
how many planets did he comdem to death

Many. Although, technically, the Tyranids condemned them. The idea was to enact exterminatus on any world where they couldn't be beaten back, or evacuate and raze before they got there. This didn't bother the Inquisition; what did was the ammount of migrating Orks that claimed those worlds after they were left. Wrong or right, the tactic slowed Leviathan to a crawl, giving the Imperium time to get its act together and meet them in force once they're done with the Octavius system.

El_Machinae
17-03-2006, 23:07
I don't know this fluff well. I read your paragraph to mean that:

Human worlds were assumed to not be able to slow the 'nids sufficiently, so they were razed by the Inquisition. This razing allowed orks to move in and thrive, and those orks were able to stave off the 'nids long enough to give the Imperials a chance.

Am I close?

That would mean that a developed Imperial world is more useless than a fresh ork world at slowing 'nids, wouldn't it?. After razing, orks are able to build up a world to a defensible position that staves off the 'nids better than the humans.

Wow. That doesn't say much about the capabilities of the humans compared to orks.

Bmaxwell
17-03-2006, 23:11
but all orks fight and are dedicated to war. when all humans aren't in fact a very small precantage is fighting.

and these worlds aren't major Imperial worlds just small civilzed ones or even agri worlds

Axel
18-03-2006, 09:51
The new WD contains another lifesign of Kryptmann. He suggests that to encounter the new Nid-genotype there, and due to the fact that the planet is lost in the long run anyway, an exterminatus should be considered.

Since he is declared renegade, it is likely that his advice is not heeded. Else the summer campaign would be a short affair...

ryng_sting
19-03-2006, 10:00
I don't know this fluff well. I read your paragraph to mean that:

Human worlds were assumed to not be able to slow the 'nids sufficiently, so they were razed by the Inquisition. This razing allowed orks to move in and thrive, and those orks were able to stave off the 'nids long enough to give the Imperials a chance.

Am I close?

That would mean that a developed Imperial world is more useless than a fresh ork world at slowing 'nids, wouldn't it?. After razing, orks are able to build up a world to a defensible position that staves off the 'nids better than the humans.

Wow. That doesn't say much about the capabilities of the humans compared to orks.

It means this. On worlds where the Imperium couldn't win, evacuation and exterminatus were to be enacted before the 'nids could arrive. Worlds already under invasion were to be razed before the 'nids could feed, thus denying the 'nids the bio-mass needed to replace their losses.

f2k
19-03-2006, 10:43
I was under the impression that the Tyranids would be allowed to subjugate a world completely and begin to feed on it. Then, and only then, would an Exterminatus be unleashed.
That way the Tyranids would be made to pay for taking the planet and then denied the biomass they need to replenish their losses…

Icarus
20-03-2006, 02:31
f2k has got it in a nutshell I believe. In a situation where an Imperial world is being overwhelmed by the nids, let them commit their forces, let them start devouring the planet, and then blow the hell out of it. That way there is maximum expenditure of tyranid resources with nothing in return.

GodofWarTx
20-03-2006, 15:58
Viral Torpedos are biological, they consume all living tissue. They dont ignite the atmosphere,there are other exterminatus weapons that do that very thing. (and others, which cause incredibly siesmic and magnetic disruptions that the planet tears itself apart).

Rippers can NOT survive on planets, especially dead ones. A ripper is basically a mouth, a primitive motive system, and a gullet. They gorge themselves, then crawl their collective rear-ends to a digestion pool to expire and spill their "cargo". I would wager the only tyranid "warrior" organisms with fully-developed digestive systems are Lictors and Genestealers, due to the extended time they are to live. Think about it, why have digestive systems (which, by their nature, are ineffecient on purpose) on creatures that die and are reabsorbed into the collective hive ships once a world is conquered and consumed? They must have inner fatty reserves to sustain them until the hive either exhausts itself, or wins.

boogle
20-03-2006, 16:13
there was however a pice in 3rd ed Codex Nids i believe, that had Rippers emerging from under the ground on a world that have been cyclocinally torpedoed

GodofWarTx
20-03-2006, 16:54
there was however a pice in 3rd ed Codex Nids i believe, that had Rippers emerging from under the ground on a world that have been cyclocinally torpedoed


there was. However, im sure instead of "hissing in defiance" like it was written, they were either :

A) crying that their food was gone
B) Trying to call Space Pizza Hut

El_Machinae
20-03-2006, 17:56
I was under the impression that the Tyranids would be allowed to subjugate a world completely and begin to feed on it. Then, and only then, would an Exterminatus be unleashed.

So the strategy would still be for Imperial forces to fight tooth 'n nail to force the 'nids to commit as much as possible. As well, if the planet is slated to be destroyed anyway, the Imperium can use much more desperate tactics (that would normally be discouraged if you want to preserve infrastructure), such as igniting forests, burning off oil wells, using nuclear weapons, etc..

Revlid
20-03-2006, 18:03
Just to clear up the different types of Exterminatus:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exterminatus

Havoc
20-03-2006, 19:07
Ok so if creed comdemed a planet to death and got away with it then why didn't kryptman, and he's an inquistor that's a reason to get off for sure

f2k
20-03-2006, 19:17
I think it’s because of the scale of Kryptmans plans. It’s not just one or two planets – it’s dozens, if not hundreds, of them.

Also, on the political scene, Kryptman might have become too big a figure. He’s the leading expert on Tyranids, he’s got the ears of all Ordo Xenos inquisitors (and presumably also of those from other orders), and he has the support of both Marines (especially UM) and the Deathwatch – as seen by their continuing support despite the fact that he’s be declared a heretic.

Icarus
20-03-2006, 19:41
Its also the fact that Creed destroyed a planet that was hopelessly lost to the enemy in the most important strategic sector in the entire Imperium. Kryptman on the other hand has repeatedly made decisions which, whilst effective, are questionable.

precinctomega
20-03-2006, 20:00
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I had understood that the act that saw Kryptmann condemned as Excommunicate Traitoris was the evacuation-at-gunpoint of the Gryphonne system.

It makes sense for the political wind to turn against him at that point as the Adeptus Mechanicus would have been baying for his head on a platter at the loss of not only the forgeworld, but also of a large propotion of the War Griffons Titan Legion.

Declaring his Excommunicate Traitoris would settle the debt with the Mechanicus, but leave Kryptmann, with his loyal Deathwatch marines and contacts throughout the Ordo Xenos, to continue his work against the Tyranids from behind the scenes.

R.

ryng_sting
21-03-2006, 18:12
He was in fact declared Excommunicate shortly before Gryphonne IV fell to the Tyranids. The AM chose to stay put and fight the Tyranids. They failed. The planet and all its inhabitants - including the War Gryphons Titan legion - were subsequently devoured.

ikit_claw
21-03-2006, 21:09
I'd just like to point out that comparing Creed with Kryptmann is a bad idea, for the ones that are. Remember, St. Josmane's Hope was a penal planet, so it's not like these were full Imperial citizens who were killed, either. Plus, it was one planet and a Black Crusade is far more threatening than any Hive Fleet, if you ask me. Hell, it's a pity that the Nids aren't attacking from the West. If they could just be drawn into the Eye of Terror...

frod
22-03-2006, 16:30
Though Kryptmann may currently be Excommunicate Traitoris the same thing happened to Eisenhorn, the Inquisition can just as easily resore him later, they only tend to make a real effort to kill other inquisitors when they start consorting with deamons (and are seen to be doing so) or worse get themselves a mark of chaos