PDA

View Full Version : Unreleased Empire cannon crew ?



OLIVERASO
26-02-2012, 03:46
Hi ;

Was watching the box of the empire cannon :

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440092a&prodId=prod20054

And there is an crew with the two hands on the ears.

But when looking at the sprue :

http://bitzbarn.com/oscommerce/catalog/popup_image.php?pID=3950&osCsid=6af3edffd76a00cb337f2c6e4bc91c3e

There is no bits "two hands on the ears".

Anyone have already see this model in flesh ?

Thanks !

All the best ;

Rémi.

_toast_
26-02-2012, 04:09
i am not 100% sure what you're getting at, none of the great cannon crew members have boths hands on their ears, in the links you showed us, but i do know that the plastic hellblaster kit has a plastic dude covering his ears.

*edit* ah... on the box art. My best guess would be a cannon crew member from 5th edition, who was covering his ears, a conversion using the hands holding the cannon ball, or the plastic arms from the hellblaster kit.

OLIVERASO
26-02-2012, 04:35
"but i do know that the plastic hellblaster kit has a plastic dude covering his ears."

Yes ! But it's not the same one that is pictured on the canon box ;) .

Lord Dan
26-02-2012, 04:56
Remi, I don't see a model with two hands over his ears on the box. Where are you looking?

OLIVERASO
26-02-2012, 05:19
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/221/m35017599120202005empir.jpg/

Here !

Lord Dan
26-02-2012, 06:03
Good spot, it's hard to see behind the smoke. Shame those bits aren't included with the cannon crew...

Darnok
26-02-2012, 08:01
The Hellblaster one has his arms in another angle, so it is not the one on the Greatcannon boxart. Nice find.

I suppose it is a conversion. It's not the first time there are boxarts that show things you don't actually get in that box though...

jullevi
26-02-2012, 09:22
I suppose it is a conversion. It's not the first time there are boxarts that show things you don't actually get in that box though...

True. Another example is Empire State Troops box showing shields that are not included in any plastic or metal kit. The shields can also be seen in Empire Army book.

OLIVERASO
26-02-2012, 10:42
True. Another example is Empire State Troops box showing shields that are not included in any plastic or metal kit. The shields can also be seen in Empire Army book.

Do you have any pics please ?

In fact, I was interested to see the cannon box, because I have just bought two unreleased resin crew for the cannon. So I have think : "Well, I have finally found that bits with the hands on the ears" !
But it wasn't the case. I didn't think it's an conversion, as there is at least two other unreleased crew.

Von Wibble
26-02-2012, 12:02
I have a crewman with his hands over his ears - it came with 6th edition I think.

Urgat
26-02-2012, 13:13
Looking at it, I'd say it's just a photoshoped job.

lbecks
26-02-2012, 13:28
Looking at it, I'd say it's just a photoshoped job.

They converted that model. It's shown in the 04/05 catalog.

AlphariusOmegon20
27-02-2012, 06:04
The parts ARE in the box. The pic that the Op showed is only ONE of the sprues in the box.

Notice that there's no trunnion (Cannon chassis) on that sprue. The mortar trunnion is on it though.

Hell, the pic tab even says " Empire cannon sprue 2" when you click on the link.

The parts the Op is looking for are on the OTHER sprue in the box.

Jacobby
27-02-2012, 08:54
The parts the Op is looking for are on the OTHER sprue in the box.

I would like to inform you, that I sit with both sprues right in front of me. Neither of them includes the arms described in this thread.

OLIVERASO
27-02-2012, 08:58
http://bitzbarn.com/oscommerce/catalog/popup_image.php?pID=3949

The other sprue. The bits aren't here. Or maybe me and jacobby are blind ?

ihavetoomuchminis
27-02-2012, 09:24
All of my cannons have a crew member with both hands in his ears. I haven't buyed a cannon in years....

OLIVERASO
27-02-2012, 10:29
Do you have a pics ?

Erazmus_M_Wattle
27-02-2012, 11:15
I can assure everyone that the model was a conversion using the hands holding the cannonball. Basically it shouldn't have been put in the picture on the box.

dante76
27-02-2012, 13:44
My cannon crew does but it came with the batallion box set.

IcedCrow
27-02-2012, 14:06
I have two cannon crew that have both hands covering the ears. It wasn't a conversion. They are both plastic. They came with the cannon kit back in 6th edition when I bought it, so back in 2000/2001 or thereabouts.

OLIVERASO
27-02-2012, 17:21
To the guys who say "I have one" ; is it possible for you to post pics of them ? They didn't appear on the sprue so I want to be sure about the provenance, as someone pointed earlier in this post it was a conversion.

Urgat
28-02-2012, 05:55
http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m1270260a_2010-07-08_2_873x627.jpg (http://www.google.fr/imgres?q=warhammer+empire+plastic+canon&um=1&hl=fr&safe=off&biw=1680&bih=935&tbm=isch&tbnid=JwhPTTLFgXba9M:&imgrefurl=http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/blogPost.jsp%3FaId%3D11500017a%26setLocale%3Dfr_FR&docid=kNSOi1yN61eohM&imgurl=http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m1270260a_2010-07-08_2_873x627.jpg&w=873&h=627&ei=43lMT9mQI8iJ8gOh0Km_Ag&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=556&vpy=507&dur=2645&hovh=190&hovw=265&tx=159&ty=105&sig=102414749171210200109&page=2&tbnh=135&tbnw=171&start=41&ndsp=48&ved=1t:429,r:2,s:41)

Bingo. The guy with his hands on his ears is from the canon that was inside the 6th ed box with the Empire vs Orcs armies. Just realized I actually have it (that's not mine on the pic, but once you know what you're looking for, googling it is faster :p)

knightime98
28-02-2012, 07:02
That bit is on the current Hellstrom / Helblaster kit

133853

133854

I had to dig for 10 minutes to find it.

Echunia
28-02-2012, 07:20
I know : D, I have one of them some where, you could build him in the 6th boxed game. So as some one has stated it's probably from the last editions cannon.

knightime98
28-02-2012, 07:33
The beginning of 6th edition is when I started playing WH. I bought 4 of the starter box sets with the Empire and OnG. I looked over my bits from THOSE cannon/mortar kits and I did not spot that bit. I looked at my Hellstrom/Helblaster kit bits and there he was.... So...

If I remember right, the old metal Helblaster Volley gun may of had a crewmember with that pose.. Now I have to dig again..

Nope... I didn't realize it but I have about 33 crewmembers painted (10k points Empire or so). Only about 12 or so painted to a real good tabletop standard.
Anyhow, of the 33 crewmembers only one of them have hands over ears and that model came from the Helblaster/Helstrom kit. I have 2 Rocket Batteries, one of them I used the hand over ears bit, the other is on the sprue for which is pictured above.

So, the cannon box kit picture from GW has the bit from the Helstrom/Helblaster used. As a 10 year veteran of the Empire, I'd very strongly state that is the case.
I've keep all my sprues and I have tons of empire sprues (perhaps a 50-70 or so with bits).

The only 2 things that would make the cannon/mortar kit better is 3 more crew members, the transunion, and 2 wheels. Thereby, allowing you to build 1 mortar AND 1 cannon with the kit. You have so many left overs it's ridiculous. I guess, I could get several Sprue A's to make up the parts needed. However, I think GW stopped taking bits orders.

OLIVERASO
28-02-2012, 07:33
Thanks for the pics, but you should have a better look : This is NOT the one on the cannon box art. (to urgat and knighttime98)

OLIVERASO
28-02-2012, 07:36
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/109/various20140.jpg/

Watch ! The hands and arm aren't in the same position.

Echunia
28-02-2012, 07:53
The beginning of 6th edition is when I started playing WH. I bought 4 of the starter box sets with the Empire and OnG. I looked over my bits from THOSE cannon/mortar kits and I did not spot that bit. I looked at my Hellstrom/Helblaster kit bits and there he was.... So...

If I remember right, the old metal Helblaster Volley gun may of had a crewmember with that pose.. Now I have to dig again..

Nope... I didn't realize it but I have about 33 crewmembers painted (10k points Empire or so). Only about 12 or so painted to a real good tabletop standard.
Anyhow, of the 33 crewmembers only one of them have hands over ears and that model came from the Helblaster/Helstrom kit. I have 2 Rocket Batteries, one of them I used the hand over ears bit, the other is on the sprue for which is pictured above.

So, the cannon box kit picture from GW has the bit from the Helstrom/Helblaster used. As a 10 year veteran of the Empire, I'd very strongly state that is the case.
I've keep all my sprues and I have tons of empire sprues (perhaps a 50-70 or so with bits).

The only 2 things that would make the cannon/mortar kit better is 3 more crew members, the transunion, and 2 wheels. Thereby, allowing you to build 1 mortar AND 1 cannon with the kit. You have so many left overs it's ridiculous. I guess, I could get several Sprue A's to make up the parts needed. However, I think GW stopped taking bits orders.

As an empire general of no years at all. Only ever having owned the 6th ed start set when I was 7 years old and never used the army since. I, dear sir, conclude that you are wrong! : D

I found the little fellow, which I painted like an utter and complete retard, but he proves my point!

http://i792.photobucket.com/albums/yy208/Echunia/IMG_0624.jpg

The thing was that the arms were separate so you placed them each over the head. Here you can see that I used one of those arms.

Edit: looked at the sprew more closely and there's jsut one of these arms. So maybe it's a conversion after all. GW putting conversions on cover art, controversial : D.

Urgat
28-02-2012, 07:57
Well I stick to my oppinion it's a photoshop job then.

lbecks
28-02-2012, 08:13
Well I stick to my oppinion it's a photoshop job then.

In the 04/05 catalog there's a full shot of the guy with both hands on his ears pg. 616. Very matter of fact. It's just a converted mini or per-manufactured version.

knightime98
28-02-2012, 08:49
Edit: looked at the sprew more closely and there's jsut one of these arms. So maybe it's a conversion after all. GW putting conversions on cover art, controversial : D.

You had me looking over my bits again. There is only one arm that raises up like your picture. That pose is supposed to be the hand going to the side of the mouth, so that the direction of him yelling to another crew member could be heard easier. Especially after a deafening blast from the cannon.

The only thing that I can figure is that the arms posed with the cannon ball in the middle was whittled out and they placed a head between them instead. A conversion nonetheless.

Anyhow, I'm done with this thread. I've exhausted a lot of resources to post a picture and scour through my bits to show my conclusion. Which at this point seems to be a bonefide conversion piece or perhaps as one poster suggested, "photo shopped". Although, the bit that I showed is so very similar. So, good luck with your search.

Urgat
28-02-2012, 08:59
In the 04/05 catalog there's a full shot of the guy with both hands on his ears pg. 616. Very matter of fact. It's just a converted mini or per-manufactured version.

And imho that would be photoshoped too (if it's the case, that would be the original pic used for the cannon box). Check if this pic is not exactly at the same angle. There's no other picture of that guy? If he's painted and used on a box, he should at least be in the studio army, that's where the minis used for the boxes come from. So you should be able to find him in your Empire book in the colour pages. If you can't, well, voila.

OLIVERASO
28-02-2012, 10:41
"In the 04/05 catalog there's a full shot of the guy with both hands on his ears pg. 616. Very matter of fact. It's just a converted mini or per-manufactured version. "

If you can post a pics ..... I didn't have that catalogue.

"Although, the bit that I showed is so very similar."

Similar .... but not the same ;) .

Balerion
28-02-2012, 11:16
The head is clearly the same as one of the current crew members (beard + skintight hood) and the left arm looks to be from another crew member (you can see it on the model in the background of the box art).

The right arm is a bit mysterious. Possibly from the set of arms holding the cannonball, but the angle of the bend doesn't seem to be the same. Based on that I'd guess it's a photoshop.

OLIVERASO
28-02-2012, 11:32
" but the angle of the bend doesn't seem to be the same. "

Yeah, i'm OK with you.

Now, why photoshop an miniature on the box art ?
Someone earlier in this thread pointed it may be an conversion ..... anyone have see it in flesh ? Or any other pics instead of the cannon box ?

IcedCrow
28-02-2012, 12:16
It is not a conversion. Nor is it a photoshop. I have two of him sitting on my shelf. Again those particular crew members come from 6th edition. I bought it when the new cannon kit came out back then. (up until then the cannons were metal... and sold for $14... oh those were the days)

Balerion
28-02-2012, 12:51
So the plastic war-machine kit has an identical reproduction of a head and a right arm from a previous metal model?

IcedCrow
28-02-2012, 13:51
I have no idea. I only know that I own two of that model in plastic and they are on my shelf with my empire warmachines, and I obtained them around 2000/2001 when I was collecting Empire.

lbecks
28-02-2012, 15:38
And imho that would be photoshoped too (if it's the case, that would be the original pic used for the cannon box). Check if this pic is not exactly at the same angle. There's no other picture of that guy? If he's painted and used on a box, he should at least be in the studio army, that's where the minis used for the boxes come from. So you should be able to find him in your Empire book in the colour pages. If you can't, well, voila.

He's in WD 248-251 as well from when the kit was released. In all his two handed covering ears glory. in a lot of different pictures. In different angles. All must be photoshopped...

Urgat
28-02-2012, 15:52
He's in WD 248-251 as well from when the kit was released. In all his two handed covering ears glory. in a lot of different pictures. In different angles. All must be photoshopped...
That's why I was asking in the first place, to make sure. Don't be sarcastic.

lbecks
28-02-2012, 16:40
That's why I was asking in the first place, to make sure. Don't be sarcastic.

Some people are actually trying to help Oliveraso out here instead of going "it's photoshop" with no evidence of that either.

Anyway Oliveraso, I believe it's a conversion for the following reasons:

He appears in multiple pictures in WD and the 04/05 catalog.
The sprues in the 04/05 catalog have the 2000 stamp date but no 2nd ear covering arm so the sprue wasn't recut since 2000, its release date.

IcedCrow
28-02-2012, 16:52
ehem.

I have two of the model.

They are not conversions. I did no conversions to my warmachine crew.

Somewhere at some point in time that was how they came on the sprue.

They are not photoshopped either. They existed at one point.

lbecks
28-02-2012, 17:07
Maybe there was something released pre-2000 then.

Balerion
28-02-2012, 18:31
ehem.

I have two of the model.

They are not conversions. I did no conversions to my warmachine crew.

Somewhere at some point in time that was how they came on the sprue.

They are not photoshopped either. They existed at one point.
Sorry to be "that guy", but it's hard to take this as gospel without an actual pic.

It just seems sort of strange that they would port an identical head and one of two arms from the 6th edition kit to the 7th edition kit. I've also scoured CMoN and GIS for photographic evidence of the model, and neither has anything.

IcedCrow
28-02-2012, 18:42
Sorry to be "that guy", but it's hard to take this as gospel without an actual pic.

It just seems sort of strange that they would port an identical head and one of two arms from the 6th edition kit to the 7th edition kit. I've also scoured CMoN and GIS for photographic evidence of the model, and neither has anything.

lol alright then. No skin off my nose. The two models that are the exact replica of the what is being discussed are still sitting on my shelf amidst their cannons. Good luck in your search.

OLIVERASO
28-02-2012, 20:22
So, Icedcrow, is it possible for you to post an pics of those items please ?

They are not on the cannon sprue.
They exist on the hellblaster kit, but it's not the same position for the arms.

I have search on ebay on many cannon kit, but I have been unable to find it.

Will wait your pics (or from other members who claim they have it - I am very curious about that one so I wil be able to update on the wiki or not ... )

IcedCrow
28-02-2012, 20:25
I don't have a camera worth a damn anymore. The best you'd see is a blurry image if I tried to take a picture. I need a new phone with a decent camera on it. My old megapixel camera I used to use has long since died. Sorry.

OLIVERASO
28-02-2012, 20:30
No probs for the blurry image. We just need an image, even blurry, to just see the position of the arm.


"The sprues in the 04/05 catalog have the 2000 stamp date but no 2nd ear covering arm so the sprue wasn't recut since 2000, its release date. "

Or maybe it was an unreleased model that was casted but not released .... who knows ? I have see various unreleased models on boxes, but no converted minis.

EDIT : Or maybe icedcrow really have that damned model, and it was released :)

Vmartini
28-02-2012, 20:45
This exact same model is on page 88 of the 7th edition Empire book crewing both a mortar and helstorm (note that none of the 6 crew for the helstorm or helblaster are the crew from that plastic box set. I'm not even sure the Helblaster is the plastic version.), but he is not in the 6th Edition book. I've bought a few plastic cannon sets since 6th ed, and have only ever had the left arm over the ear without the right arm. The right arm is definatly a mirror image of that part, but whether it was a limited time release they aborted I couldn't say. I don't think its a photoshop as the model appears again on the back cover, and it seems a little strange to do that.

OLIVERASO
28-02-2012, 20:51
"I'm not even sure the Helblaster is the plastic version.), "

Note that in the blood angels codex, around 90 % of the miniatures shown are resin cast of the plastic/metal miniatures :) .