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CircUs_1943
28-02-2012, 15:45
Hi!
My friends recently started playing Warhammer 40k and Im thinking of joining them. I've been looking at Space Marines and trying to figure out which Chapter I like. I've been looking at the Crimson Fist and Deathwatch(if it's possible) and I was wondering what to buy aswell. Any thoughts or ideas will be helpful. I'm a dedicated lore freak so I want to stick to it if possible.

Bunnahabhain
28-02-2012, 16:00
Unless you have a strong chapter preference, I would suggest you create your own chapter.

This allows you to create your own paint scheme and background.
It also allows you use any set of space marine rules going. There are currently lots of different codices that provide rules for space marines- Codex: space marines, blood angels, dark angels, black templars, space wolves and Grey knights / chaos space marines ( sort of..). If you have your own chapter, you can use any of these for rules, and when Matt Ward ( author of several recent Marine codicies) messes up the background and rules for named chapter XXX (on current form, he will ) you are immune to it.

ChrisMurray
28-02-2012, 16:42
The Crimson Fists have a nice paint scheme and a decent amount of background. If you want to stick to the fluff you would need to decide if you wanted to go pre or post Rynns world. Pre, you can do everything a standard codex chapter can, post you may want to restict yourself to more veterans although there are lots of ways to include anything and still follow the fluff.

Have a look at the codex and see what sort of army you want. You could start with two tactical marine squads and a hq of your choice or a lot of people play CF usings Pedro (the CF chapter master and he is a character in C:SM), he allows you to take sterngaurd veterans as troops, so if you take him, rather than picking up tacticals, pick up two squads of stern gaurd. Then play a few games and see what style you prefere (close combate? fragile but fast, shooty ec) and add units from there based on your style and needs. A HQ and two troops (the basic compulsary units for 40k) for a space marine army will come out at close to 500pts which is a nice points value to start learning the game at and to grow from.

CircUs_1943
28-02-2012, 17:37
Unless you have a strong chapter preference, I would suggest you create your own chapter.

This allows you to create your own paint scheme and background.
It also allows you use any set of space marine rules going. There are currently lots of different codices that provide rules for space marines- Codex: space marines, blood angels, dark angels, black templars, space wolves and Grey knights / chaos space marines ( sort of..). If you have your own chapter, you can use any of these for rules, and when Matt Ward ( author of several recent Marine codicies) messes up the background and rules for named chapter XXX (on current form, he will ) you are immune to it.

I like what you are saying, but Im not very creative. Also, what I like with choosing a preexisting Chapter is ofcourse the exisiting lore, but also the opportunity to buy for example Crimson Fist shoulder pads etc. I like fluff :).

CircUs_1943
28-02-2012, 17:39
The Crimson Fists have a nice paint scheme and a decent amount of background. If you want to stick to the fluff you would need to decide if you wanted to go pre or post Rynns world. Pre, you can do everything a standard codex chapter can, post you may want to restict yourself to more veterans although there are lots of ways to include anything and still follow the fluff.

Have a look at the codex and see what sort of army you want. You could start with two tactical marine squads and a hq of your choice or a lot of people play CF usings Pedro (the CF chapter master and he is a character in C:SM), he allows you to take sterngaurd veterans as troops, so if you take him, rather than picking up tacticals, pick up two squads of stern gaurd. Then play a few games and see what style you prefere (close combate? fragile but fast, shooty ec) and add units from there based on your style and needs. A HQ and two troops (the basic compulsary units for 40k) for a space marine army will come out at close to 500pts which is a nice points value to start learning the game at and to grow from.

Okey, I'll get my hands on the Codex this week hopefully and I'll start reading like there is no tomorrow. My friend has offered to split the Black Reach pack with me, so I'll most likely be starting with that one.

Theocracity
28-02-2012, 17:50
An advantage of using Pedro / CF is that Sternguard also make good Deathwatch teams. You could keep the same army list for two different themes.

CircUs_1943
28-02-2012, 18:04
An advantage of using Pedro / CF is that Sternguard also make good Deathwatch teams. You could keep the same army list for two different themes.

You can't make a full Deathwatch team right? And since I already have you on the line, how do the Deathwatch teams work?

Theocracity
28-02-2012, 18:29
You can't make a full Deathwatch team right? And since I already have you on the line, how do the Deathwatch teams work?

Deathwatch teams are generally smaller than the average sized 40K game, yes. Typically I think they operate not much larger than a combat squad. You could either figure out a fluff reason why several Deathwatch teams would work together, or you could only do a squad or two for smaller games.

Deathwatch teams are made up of members from different chapters, with their armor painted black except for the chapter colors on their shoulder pad. They have specialist bolters, which means that they are well represented by Sternguard on the board.

carlisimo
28-02-2012, 19:50
Crimson Fists are great, and not very common either. However, their paint scheme works best if you take the highlighting further than usual (i.e. the last highlight is almost white). Personally I prefer Scab Red, slightly pinkish, for the red parts, otherwise you get the too-many-primary-colors effect. I’ll try to post a photo of someone else’s CF figure that I like when I get home tonight.

After Rynn’s World, they’d be expected to have a lot of scouts, relatively more veterans, lots of apothecaries and techmarines, and whatever else might’ve been kept aboard the fleet rather than in their fortress-monastery. That’s very open to interpretation. I’d argue that several terminator suits would be kept aboard a battle barge because that’s always been part of spaceship fluff (e.g. Battlefleet Gothic, Space Hulk). They would still have Thunderhawks, though that might not affect a 40k army.

As you know, they’re on generally good terms with the Administratum (hence their Deathwatch participation). They should have a lot of techmarines since many would have been aboard the fleet. For those reasons, they shouldn’t have trouble replenishing their equipment and motor pool.

CircUs_1943
28-02-2012, 20:05
Deathwatch teams are generally smaller than the average sized 40K game, yes. Typically I think they operate not much larger than a combat squad. You could either figure out a fluff reason why several Deathwatch teams would work together, or you could only do a squad or two for smaller games.

Deathwatch teams are made up of members from different chapters, with their armor painted black except for the chapter colors on their shoulder pad. They have specialist bolters, which means that they are well represented by Sternguard on the board.

Thought so. Well, I've read up more on the lore via fansites and I think Deathwatch can nicely be incorporated in an Crimson Fist army. Thanks!

CircUs_1943
28-02-2012, 20:07
Crimson Fists are great, and not very common either. However, their paint scheme works best if you take the highlighting further than usual (i.e. the last highlight is almost white). Personally I prefer Scab Red, slightly pinkish, for the red parts, otherwise you get the too-many-primary-colors effect. I’ll try to post a photo of someone else’s CF figure that I like when I get home tonight.

After Rynn’s World, they’d be expected to have a lot of scouts, relatively more veterans, lots of apothecaries and techmarines, and whatever else might’ve been kept aboard the fleet rather than in their fortress-monastery. That’s very open to interpretation. I’d argue that several terminator suits would be kept aboard a battle barge because that’s always been part of spaceship fluff (e.g. Battlefleet Gothic, Space Hulk). They would still have Thunderhawks, though that might not affect a 40k army.

As you know, they’re on generally good terms with the Administratum (hence their Deathwatch participation). They should have a lot of techmarines since many would have been aboard the fleet. For those reasons, they shouldn’t have trouble replenishing their equipment and motor pool.

Great answer! This was really helpful. Thank you. You guys know what you are talking about so I'll throw another Chapter into the mix. I also like the Raven Guards, I just want to get more info like this so when I make my purchase I can just paint in and steamroll my friends. :)

MagicHat
28-02-2012, 20:23
You could start with two tactical marine squads and a hq of your choice or a lot of people play CF usings Pedro (the CF chapter master and he is a character in C:SM), he allows you to take sterngaurd veterans as troops, so if you take him, rather than picking up tacticals, pick up two squads of stern gaurd.

Kantor do not make Sternguard troops, he makes them scoring. He would probably have been more popular if he did though.
I will echo Bunnhabhain and suggest making your own chapter.

Charistoph
28-02-2012, 21:01
Great answer! This was really helpful. Thank you. You guys know what you are talking about so I'll throw another Chapter into the mix. I also like the Raven Guards, I just want to get more info like this so when I make my purchase I can just paint in and steamroll my friends. :)

Raven Guard is pretty good, with Kayven Shrike as their codex Poster Boy. He can make his army Fleet (good for close combat units) and the squad he is with Infiltrate, but only if you're not using another character's Chapter Tactics (so no Scoring Sternguard). Raven Guard tend to be like ghosts and strike quickly and hard from the shadows, were one of the original Legions, and have a problem with their geneseed.

As a side note, it is possible to field what is called a Crusade force, which is an army that has contributions from different Chapters. Like say, Deathwatch Sternguard, Crimson Fists Tacticals and Devestators, Raven Guard Assault Marines, and White Scar Bikers. They don't get any additional benefits from this, but can make for an amazing looking army on the table.

Madfool2
28-02-2012, 21:27
Raven Guard is pretty good, with Kayven Shrike as their codex Poster Boy. He can make his army Fleet (good for close combat units) and the squad he is with Infiltrate, but only if you're not using another character's Chapter Tactics (so no Scoring Sternguard). Raven Guard tend to be like ghosts and strike quickly and hard from the shadows, were one of the original Legions, and have a problem with their geneseed.

As a side note, it is possible to field what is called a Crusade force, which is an army that has contributions from different Chapters. Like say, Deathwatch Sternguard, Crimson Fists Tacticals and Devestators, Raven Guard Assault Marines, and White Scar Bikers. They don't get any additional benefits from this, but can make for an amazing looking army on the table.

The other awesome thing about a Crusade force, is that you get to expand the paint range you use, and therefore will prevent painting the same colour over and over.

CircUs_1943
28-02-2012, 23:05
Would this be doable and okey? 5-10 Tactical Marines (CF), 5-10 Tactical Marines (Deathwatch, with Captain/Chaplain), 1 HQ (CF, don't know what yet though). Later on I might add 5 Terminators (CF), a Dreadnought (CF) and maybe some sort of Transport? I still don't know alot about 40k rules etc, Im a fantasy player:)!

carlisimo
28-02-2012, 23:48
You have a lot of freedom to build the army you want, so feel free to ignore my background-related feedback.

Marines assigned to the Deathwatch are generally veterans, if I remember right, so they would be better represented by a veteran squad. I think it’s unlikely that they would have a chaplain with them, or even a captain. However, your story could be about a Deathwatch squad that calls for backup and receives the help of the Crimson Fists (for all we know, they were on the way to drop off a marine or two to join the Deathwatch squad). Perhaps they’ve suffered losses, so the chapter tells one of its chaplains to temporarily lead (or help) the squad while the rest of the Crimson Fists back them up in the battle.

If you make the Deathwatch squad veterans, then you’d need another troops choice. It’d be a good opportunity to use some scouts, if you want. But you could stick with tactical marines. Unfortunately, the plastic scouts are pretty ugly compared to the older metal ones.

CircUs_1943
29-02-2012, 12:01
You have a lot of freedom to build the army you want, so feel free to ignore my background-related feedback.

Marines assigned to the Deathwatch are generally veterans, if I remember right, so they would be better represented by a veteran squad. I think it’s unlikely that they would have a chaplain with them, or even a captain. However, your story could be about a Deathwatch squad that calls for backup and receives the help of the Crimson Fists (for all we know, they were on the way to drop off a marine or two to join the Deathwatch squad). Perhaps they’ve suffered losses, so the chapter tells one of its chaplains to temporarily lead (or help) the squad while the rest of the Crimson Fists back them up in the battle.

If you make the Deathwatch squad veterans, then you’d need another troops choice. It’d be a good opportunity to use some scouts, if you want. But you could stick with tactical marines. Unfortunately, the plastic scouts are pretty ugly compared to the older metal ones.

I read in the Deathwatch Kill Team "rulebook" they usually have a Captain or a Librarian(my mistake) with them. Maybe you could use those Sternguard as a Deathwatch team?

Oppressor
01-03-2012, 07:19
I don't mean to hijack the thread, but do people generally have a problem with using an existing chapter's colors for a new one? I know iconography is usually used by multiple chapters, but I'm not so sure about colors.

Bunnahabhain
01-03-2012, 08:27
If you have a group of marines painted up in the colours and iconography of a known named chapter, especially one with their own codex, some people object to to using them with the rules of another chapter.
Simply using the colours of Chapter X for Chapter Y is fine- there are only so many colours out there.

Charistoph
01-03-2012, 14:23
Subtle differences also help like using a darker shade, different trim, metallics for the aguila, different shoulder pad colors (see Raven Guard/Iron Hands/Black Templars/Black Dragons/etc), or spreading around some secondary colors such as on the greaves, kneepads, hands, crest, chest, etc.

CircUs_1943
02-03-2012, 13:13
I was thinking I'd buy a pack of Tac Marines, Scouts, Sternguard, a Thunderfire cannon.. And probably something else, some HQ and Dread/Transport? I don't really know yet. Any ideas?

Bunnahabhain
02-03-2012, 15:33
Thundefires have a reputation for being impossible to assemble without 14 hands, and the patience of a saint. Getting another transport in favour of it would be a good move...

Promethius
02-03-2012, 16:16
Thundefires have a reputation for being impossible to assemble without 14 hands, and the patience of a saint. Getting another transport in favour of it would be a good move...

Another option would be to use a forgeworld thudd gun, as they are very similar in concept/appearance (I'm fairly sure the old squat thudd gun had similar types of ordnance, though it's been a long time since I read my 2nd ed book).

CircUs_1943
02-03-2012, 22:11
Now, when it comes to painting these Badass marines I was wondering about their heraldic colours. Im sure about the basics, dark blue armor, red gauntlets and red hands for the CF and Black armor and silver arms for the Deathwatch marines. Do all chapters use the same colours to show Company and Veteran status?

Charistoph
02-03-2012, 22:26
Do all chapters use the same colours to show Company and Veteran status?

Nope. There are only a few cases where everything is detailed for those cases, and even then, there are options (look at the helmet colors for Ultramarine Vets).

In Codex: Space Marines, you'll have the following units as veterans: Command/Honor Squad, Sternguard, Vanguard, and Terminators (aside from the sergeants and Independent Characters, of course). Deathwatch are probably going to be your Sternguard (though, I'd imagine Vanguard could play them on TV).

MasterValrik
03-03-2012, 07:08
Great answer! This was really helpful. Thank you. You guys know what you are talking about so I'll throw another Chapter into the mix. I also like the Raven Guards, I just want to get more info like this so when I make my purchase I can just paint in and steamroll my friends. :)

If you want a great book about CF read Rynns World, good story and will make u a fan of the CF in no time.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/images/1844168026/ref=dp_image_text_0?ie=UTF8&n=283155&s=books

Enjoy and welcome to the Astartes..... Battle-Brother

Battleworthy Arts
03-03-2012, 08:47
I used to think they were boring, til I got a commission to paint them for someone. Now they are one of my favorite chapters. I recommend them.

CircUs_1943
03-03-2012, 10:55
If you want a great book about CF read Rynns World, good story and will make u a fan of the CF in no time.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/images/1844168026/ref=dp_image_text_0?ie=UTF8&n=283155&s=books

Enjoy and welcome to the Astartes..... Battle-Brother

I actually... already did! :) Looking forward to the read.

CircUs_1943
03-03-2012, 14:55
Would the Crimson Fist have any Honour guard left? If so, are they worth playing?