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Mannimarco
29-02-2012, 23:05
From facebook:


Games Workshop: Livingston
Dear Customers,

It is with great regret that I must tell you that Livingston will be closing on Sunday 18th March. The store has become unsustainable for a variety of reasons and it is illogical to continue to keep it open. I fully realise that this will have a significant impact on your hobby and your lives so I want to assure you all that i have two important things to accomplish over the next few weeks; Firstly, every hobbyist and customer gets personal advice and information about their future options and secondly, that Livingston goes out with the biggest bang possible! I'm working on some great events to ensure we all have as much fun as possible in the coming weeks and if anybody wants any information please feel free to pop in or ring me.

I am determned that Livi will be remembered, watch this space.

Take care,

Matt

Anybody elses GW closing down? Livi was in a good place right in a large mall (so rent was probably to high to sustain, I dunno).

Liber
01-03-2012, 06:58
From facebook:



Anybody elses GW closing down? Livi was in a good place right in a large mall (so rent was probably to high to sustain, I dunno).


This is probably and isolated incident, and most likely because of the rent as you suggested.

My local GW used to be located in a very large mall in Southern California (years ago), there were tons of gamers and staff there, the store was very active but they shut down and relocated...I talked to the manager and though he never told me any specific numbers apparently the rent to be in a mall like that was insanely high and they just couldn't make ends meet.

Bookwrak
01-03-2012, 08:11
There was a local GW that closed recently. The Borders and a couple other big stores in the shopping complex closed down, and after that the mall parking lot as a whole never seemed more than a third full, so it didn't come as a big surprise.

blongbling
01-03-2012, 08:19
rents and running costs too high and you cant make the profit in store to sustain it, good business sense to close loss making stores after a period of trying to turn them around

Mastodon
03-03-2012, 06:29
Brent Cross in the UK was closed down last month after 6 years of barely staying above water. Again because the rent was going up. Sometimes its better to close a store than it is to struggle on with it.

dwarfhold13
03-03-2012, 06:33
i know rent in malls is up there.. prime local probably runs about 2500-3500 a month i'm sure

Gazak Blacktoof
03-03-2012, 12:09
Our local has moved 3 times since it opened but it's still there and I've heard no plans to close it.

yabbadabba
03-03-2012, 12:26
Brent Cross in the UK was closed down last month after 6 years of barely staying above water. Again because the rent was going up. Sometimes its better to close a store than it is to struggle on with it. The year I was there we achieved almost record growth, yet in the final reckoning it was a loss making shop. The rent ate all the profits.

If the is Livingston in Scotland, I never thought that was a good idea in the first place. Still it was hard finding a trade account there. I doubt it will be any easier now.

shelfunit.
03-03-2012, 15:27
If it is Livingston in Scotland, do they really need a GW? Falkirk GW is only 10 miles away (according to google maps) and there are 2 indies listed in Edinburgh, also 10 miles away.

Huberticus
03-03-2012, 15:33
From facebook:

Anybody elses GW closing down? Livi was in a good place right in a large mall (so rent was probably to high to sustain, I dunno).

That's a real shame about it one closing. Whilst I don't live in Scotland, whenever I visited family and we went to the livingston centre me and my dad would visit the store (me not really being a fan of a giant M&S clothing outlet store...)
That said, I'm not really surprised if it is closing - it seemed to be tiny (the old White Rose 'shoebox' of Leeds being twice it's size), and it seemed to close on random days.
That, and there's both Edinburgh and Falkirk in the area for people to go to.

My own local has changed a bit. Whilst it hasn't closed (yet), it's had a fake wall put in about halfway along the store, making it now half the size it used to be - which also means no-one can gain access to the gaming tables upstairs now.

deathspank
03-03-2012, 18:49
my local went a few years ago for the same reason, Shop rents are high to start with and with the current climate they will increase to cover rising costs for the landlord. Still it could be a good chance for some of the regulars to form clubs or game at each others houses as the games are intended to be played.

Mastodon
03-03-2012, 22:02
The year I was there we achieved almost record growth, yet in the final reckoning it was a loss making shop. The rent ate all the profits.

If the is Livingston in Scotland, I never thought that was a good idea in the first place. Still it was hard finding a trade account there. I doubt it will be any easier now.

It was doing rather well this financial year too, quite a lot of growth. But yes, the rent killed it.

iamfanboy
03-03-2012, 22:48
The year I was there we achieved almost record growth, yet in the final reckoning it was a loss making shop. The rent ate all the profits.

If the is Livingston in Scotland, I never thought that was a good idea in the first place. Still it was hard finding a trade account there. I doubt it will be any easier now.
Boy, you'd almost think that having retail stores for a limited product in high foot-traffic areas with the most absurd rent locations just in the hopes of advertising your presence is a bad idea...

But no, that couldn't be possible. It would mean that the Games Workshop management was wrong, and that's just inconceivable!

/sarcasm


In all honesty, though, it seems as though GW is pulling more and more away from a retail presence to allow indies to pick up their business. Or maybe they've got someone who realizes that a store which has lost money for five to ten years in a row is a BAD investment - after all, didn't you leave the company that long ago yabbadabba?

yabbadabba
03-03-2012, 23:54
Boy, you'd almost think that having retail stores for a limited product in high foot-traffic areas with the most absurd rent locations just in the hopes of advertising your presence is a bad idea...
But no, that couldn't be possible. It would mean that the Games Workshop management was wrong, and that's just inconceivable!
/sarcasm You never would have noticed.

In all honesty, though, it seems as though GW is pulling more and more away from a retail presence to allow indies to pick up their business. Or maybe they've got someone who realizes that a store which has lost money for five to ten years in a row is a BAD investment - after all, didn't you leave the company that long ago yabbadabba? Brent Cross was an... unusual situation. I don't necessarily buy into the argument that it was a bad investment just because it was losing money, but in the current climate for GW loss making stores cannot be carried no matter what benefits they bring. As an aside shutting the BC store would represent a closing of the GW presence in the area as the shopping centre dominates the retail pattern in the area and there was little else. I hope for the gamer's sakes that has changed these days.
I left some time ago, yes.

Brother Hermiad
04-03-2012, 06:05
I know here in Oz there is talk of pulling stores out of the major Westfield centres as leases expire and either consolidating those that are closer to each other into battle bunker style stores outside of the major centres, or moving to one man operations in the smaller strip malls - the issue there being Westfield has pursued a business practice of buying up many of the surrounding strip malls and charging similar rents to their larger centres, effectively forcing stores into the larger centres as there is no beneift in being on the outside.

Rent in the major centres is killing the profits. Stores not located in major centres can stand to make less money of the back of less passerbyers walking in to see whats going on as their rent is generally 10-20% cheaper. They can survive on their regulars and word of mouth.

Autumn Leaves
04-03-2012, 09:07
Brent Cross gone? :eek:
Wow, that was a bit of a landmark in the BC shopping mall.
West London is losing its presence of GW nearly completely.
Hammersmith has gone, Ealing has gone, Richmond has gone and now Brent Cross as well.
Whats left?
You have to go into the central city to go to Kensington which must be hanging on by the skin of its teeth, or waaaaaay out to Uxbridge which is miles away in terms of traffic, traffic lights, speed cameras and roadworks.
Or you can go way down to Kingston and the nightmare one way system in south west London.
Going to a GW from mid west London is now in the too hard basket.
Much easier to use eBay and sift around for bargains and discounts.
The downside for GW is they are losing all those generational links they were establishing by staying in the community for a period of years.

AGC
04-03-2012, 09:22
Anybody elses GW closing down? Livi was in a good place right in a large mall (so rent was probably to high to sustain, I dunno).

Sorry, but I just realised that's the new one in the Almondvale shopping centre, and it's closure might be a bit more significant than it initially appears. The opening of that store was a fairly big deal as it was a new one in a high profile location in the middle of one of the most affluent areas in the country. It's opening was trumpeted on the front page of the Games Workshop UK website (Just 3/4 years ago if I remember rightly). This means it was not there to better serve an existing customer base but to recruit a new one. Obviously GW would have known rents might rise and would have taken this into account when calculating the viability of opening a store there. So the closure of the store indicates that it did not recruit as many customers as they expected, which given that GW nowadays does market research and views it's stores as it's principle method of growing the business is not good news for shareholders.

yabbadabba
04-03-2012, 09:50
Brent Cross gone? :eek:
You have to go into the central city to go to Kensington You have Muswell Hill and Wood Green closer than Kensington.

The downside for GW is they are losing all those generational links they were establishing by staying in the community for a period of years. Yes but according to the anti-retail brigade on here, that's fine and doesn't matter.

So the closure of the store indicates that it did not recruit as many customers as they expected, which given that GW nowadays does market research and views it's stores as it's principle method of growing the business is not good news for shareholders.Not really. I think there is still this air of "GW never closes stores" which is patently absurd in the current climate. GW have been opening and closing stores for a while now and I am sure the stockholders would have got over excited about this before now. Livingston was never going to be any better than a small store, and at the time of its opening shopping centre rents were ridiculously high. If the centre is the only logical choice for a store then keeping a presence in the town stops making sense.

yabbadabba
04-03-2012, 09:52
duplicate post, please delete

shelfunit.
04-03-2012, 10:28
You have Muswell Hill and Wood Green closer than Kensington.

Not in West London - Wood Green is up North East, and Muswell Hill is right next to that.


Yes but according to the anti-retail brigade on here, that's fine and doesn't matter.

Nobody is saying close down all the stores - just those that are losing money, those that are just breaking even and those that are pointlessly close to one another.


duplicate post, please delete

I'm sure you can do that in the "edit post" options - I know I've deleted several duplicates that way.

yabbadabba
04-03-2012, 11:13
Not in West London - Wood Green is up North East, and Muswell Hill is right next to that. I was talking in relation to Brent Cross, not the West.

Nobody is saying close down all the stores - just those that are losing money, those that are just breaking even and those that are pointlessly close to one another. Posters on here are saying that, you might not be. As with everything these things need to be carefully considered and are not as black and white as many think.

I'm sure you can do that in the "edit post" options - I know I've deleted several duplicates that way.Nope, nothing happening, hopefully the Mods will pick it up.

avien
04-03-2012, 11:34
While not recent, here in ireland the GW in the Blanchardstown Shopping Centre in Dublin closed down in January 2011. There's another GW in Dublin about 30miles away.

I knew the manager pretty well and he said that the Blanch store actually made more money gross, despite being half the size of the Dublin store but in net figures the store was just unsustainable. It seems to be the trend the last few years to get out of the big malls an into the street front stores where the rent is lower.

yabbadabba
04-03-2012, 11:38
I think GW might be looking at secondary and tertiary sites for their stores now, kind of like in the first shop days. If they are going to be one man stores then this could be the best economic fit for them.

Ronin_eX
04-03-2012, 13:22
Yeah, setting up in malls isn't helping their bottom line. I think the stores are a bad idea in general (at least outside of the UK) but they could, at the very least, set them up in areas that don't charge through the **** for rent. They probably have kiosk level sales but take up full store fronts (and even kiosks pay an arm and a leg for rent in a good mall).

They should take a page from most indies and stay the hell away from malls and other high-rent locations. Maybe they could finally shave off some overhead and use the money elsewhere in the company.

Deadnight
04-03-2012, 15:27
ive heard talk about falkirk being looked at. if that place closes, GW edinburgh is about the only one in this whole area of scotland. Gaming will continue though, there are local indie FLGS around the place.

Autumn Leaves
04-03-2012, 16:55
Once upon a time malls were a good place to set up but greedy rental increases have hurt a lot of businesses and it's only those that take a lot of square footage who can draw customers in, like the big supermarkets, who can negotiate the square footage rates down.

Kijamon
04-03-2012, 20:35
It's a shame for Livi, the rent would have been astronomical in the shopping centre but it was only a small unit.

I do think there was room for a store in that vicinity but i guess they'll just use Falkirk and Edinburgh for their shopping.

I'm going down with the Falkirk store to Warhammer World for a Falkirk v Livingston gaming event, I guess this is one of the final events they have planned to send Livingston off with a bang!

iamfanboy
04-03-2012, 21:33
I don't mind the IDEA of Games Workshop stores.

My problem is the EXECUTION of said stores.

In the end, GW stores aren't about enhancing the gaming experience, it's about achieving monopoly of gaming for Games Workshop, LLC.

Whether blongbling et al knows it (or wants to admit it), their plan for placing stores was

1) let independent trade account build up a demand for GW product,

2) place GW store near said independent trade account,

3) begin shorting the trade account so that the business funnels to the GW store,

4) laugh evilly as independent store closes (or blame THEM for becoming 'too dependent' on GW product).

It worked like a charm in England 20 years ago; I have a few buddies who were big into MechForce UK that hate GW to this day for what they did: crushing any games but their own. It failed in America, though, because the sheer scale of the country defeated them - kinda like starting a land war in Asia.

I'd like to note, yabba, that after they shuttered 2/3rds of the US stores, income dipped slightly (about .5m pounds) but profit quadrupled - from 700k to 2.7m pounds.


Now, shuttering the UK stores on that scale would be a terrible idea - the lack of independents would depress UK gaming for years to come if they did it so rapidly. HOWEVER, if they continue what they're doing (a gradual withdrawal, followed by gentle encouragement of indies), then they might be able to save some business.

The problem being that once you place a Mantic box and a GW box side by side, or demonstrate that you need a tiny fraction of the models to play Malifaux/Infinity/Warmachine compared to GW games, the 'value' of GW games start to plummet when compared to their prices.

xxRavenxx
04-03-2012, 23:57
Now, shuttering the UK stores on that scale would be a terrible idea - the lack of independents would depress UK gaming for years to come if they did it so rapidly. HOWEVER, if they continue what they're doing (a gradual withdrawal, followed by gentle encouragement of indies), then they might be able to save some business.

I think they could hand over quite quickly and heavily if they wanted to. Contacting stockists in each city and offering them a "handover deal" would be a solid move, so long as GW took the time to check that each city they abandon has a store with adequate gaming space and such.

blongbling
05-03-2012, 10:42
I don't mind the IDEA of Games Workshop stores.

My problem is the EXECUTION of said stores.

In the end, GW stores aren't about enhancing the gaming experience, it's about achieving monopoly of gaming for Games Workshop, LLC.

Whether blongbling et al knows it (or wants to admit it), their plan for placing stores was <snip>.

I think that in the UK that was something that was done in the late 90's there were several occasions that I can remember coming in to the office on a Monday to be told a GW store had opened next to a great account, and there was also the time the GW store fitters went into the local indie to fit them out as the new GW in that town by mistake.

I can only speak for the UK but I helped put in place the criteria for opening new GW stores (not sure if it is still in place) but basically it looks at the potential turnover of a region based on the MH shopping index and data from others stores. This is then compared to the turnover from the region in terms of the independents sales. If there was a big enough gap between the two that a one man store could achieve higher sales then they would open. If the increase wasn't enough then they would bother as the costs were too high. There was also the opportunity for the trade rep to work with the store prior to this happening so that they could start to increase their turnover so that they could get their store to the point that the turnover made it pointless for GW to go there.