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MOMUS
08-03-2012, 09:07
Im thinking of running a skirmisher list and i want to run a shadow slann.

To get the most out of the lore and potentially draw out alot of dispel dice or scroll im considering using a unit of two swarms. This would be a character assassination unit, basically i would run them in two ranks of 1, charge them into a character in a unit and mindrazor it (LD10/5A).

Now i know it only has I2 and T2 but by running it in two ranks the enemy must cause 10 wounds from 3 models (+3support) or get 5, S10 attacks on the character/wizard.

Anything stopping me do this? Or is it just a pipedream and probably not work/get the chance most games? :angel:

Thénon
08-03-2012, 09:46
you could do a full skirmish army fairly easily but your going to fall into a few traps. I`m thinking of 2400pts/no special characters army list as thats the typical tourny scene here in the U.K.


1. Your going to get no ranks in combat. EVER. skirmishers never count as having ranks in 8th.

2. Slann placement will be a big deal. He won`t have the usual protection of temple gaurd and will be a prime target for spells and magic missiles.

3. your going to have alot of models... i mean alot. your probably looking at 5 units of 15 skinks plus your swarm unit. On top of that your chameleons (you`ve got enough points to go the full 3 units of 10 :D) and couple of salamander packs.

4. You could hide some skink priests in your units of skinks but try and keep them cheap and cheerful if you can or go for skink priest on engine with the plaque of +1 spell (level 2) if you have 2 packs of 2 slamanders you could have skink priests hidden in your skink units but keep them cheap. they are just there to add extra fire power through missile spells.

5. Combat will be your biggest enemy. sure your units are int 4 but theres alot of things that go before you out there a T2 is a pain in the back side. Be prepared to sacrifice units to redirect enemy units away so you can bring more fire power on them and cross your fingers.

BlackPawl
08-03-2012, 10:04
Im thinking of running a skirmisher list and i want to run a shadow slann.

To get the most out of the lore and potentially draw out alot of dispel dice or scroll im considering using a unit of two swarms. This would be a character assassination unit, basically i would run them in two ranks of 1, charge them into a character in a unit and mindrazor it (LD10/5A).

Now i know it only has I2 and T2 but by running it in two ranks the enemy must cause 10 wounds from 3 models (+3support) or get 5, S10 attacks on the character/wizard.

Anything stopping me do this? Or is it just a pipedream and probably not work/get the chance most games? :angel:


If they reach close combat it could work, but with their T2 it could also be that they do not suvive one or two rounds of (light) missile fire or one or two fireballs etc. They have no protection and are easy to kill.
If it would be so easy you would only need a few skinks, even 6 skinks (with champion) can attack 7 times which should be enough.

It would only 3 bases in contact if the enemy have 25mm bases, with 20mm bases it would be 4 bases (8 with support).

And don't expect that your opponent will walk his unprotectet wizard in the front line. Most wizards will be in a bunker behind the line so you can not reach him.

MOMUS
08-03-2012, 11:07
you could do a full skirmish army fairly easily but your going to fall into a few traps. I`m thinking of 2400pts/no special characters army list as thats the typical tourny scene here in the U.K.

Thanks for the reply, http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?335569-Skink-skirmisher-2400


If they reach close combat it could work, but with their T2 it could also be that they do not suvive one or two rounds of (light) missile fire or one or two fireballs etc. They have no protection and are easy to kill.
If it would be so easy you would only need a few skinks, even 6 skinks (with champion) can attack 7 times which should be enough.

It would only 3 bases in contact if the enemy have 25mm bases, with 20mm bases it would be 4 bases (8 with support).

And don't expect that your opponent will walk his unprotectet wizard in the front line. Most wizards will be in a bunker behind the line so you can not reach him.

Wouldn't it be three models attacking back if it was 25 or 20mm bases?
Im hoping they will slip under the radar, im not totally sold on the tactic but its an idea. Skirmish and small footprint means they can slip through enemy lines.

BlackPawl
08-03-2012, 13:00
Wouldn't it be three models attacking back if it was 25 or 20mm bases?
Im hoping they will slip under the radar, im not totally sold on the tactic but its an idea. Skirmish and small footprint means they can slip through enemy lines.

The swarm base is 40mm, so with 20mm bases it would be 4 bases (two direct and two "clipped").

Depends on the enemy - with my skaven army you would not find a hole through the lines because there are so many of them ... but with some armies with few models it could work.

T10
08-03-2012, 13:04
I don't recall swarms getting 3 support attacks at all. The enhanced support attacks for monstrous beast, monstrous infantry and monstrous cavalry are an aspect of the troop type, not the base-size.

-T10

JustinDonnelly
08-03-2012, 15:53
I don't recall swarms getting 3 support attacks at all. The enhanced support attacks for monstrous beast, monstrous infantry and monstrous cavalry are an aspect of the troop type, not the base-size.

-T10

They don't, but where are you reading this in the post? The OP was 3 support attacks for the enemy if thats what your referring to?

SanDiegoSurrealist
09-03-2012, 00:40
Think I just learned a new tactic for my Nurglings :)

MOMUS
09-03-2012, 04:30
The swarm base is 40mm, so with 20mm bases it would be 4 bases (two direct and two "clipped"). .

Ah yes corner to corner forgot about that. :)



Depends on the enemy - with my skaven army you would not find a hole through the lines because there are so many of them ... but with some armies with few models it could work.

Could always use steed of shadows to fly them in your face, but would rather be casting that on my slann.

T10
09-03-2012, 07:11
They don't, but where are you reading this in the post? The OP was 3 support attacks for the enemy if thats what your referring to?

The original post is not very clear, but:



Now i know it only has I2 and T2 but by running it in two ranks the enemy must cause 10 wounds from 3 models (+3support) or get 5, S10 attacks on the character/wizard.

It appears he doesn't actually count any support attacks from swarms models, but appears to want to get his swarm unit one model wide and two models deep into contact with up to three enemy models, including a wizard.

-T10

MOMUS
09-03-2012, 07:34
The original post is not very clear, but...
-T10

Everyone else got it :p



A similar tactic can be used with terradons running a unit or three models 2 wide (2 in first rank,1 in the second). Charge a wizard in a unit, (easy to get that bunder mage with a flying unit).
You then get attacks and stomps on the poor wizard (as long was he doesnt wipe the terradons). Bit of a last ditch effort, but can put the willies up people.

Artiee
09-03-2012, 12:52
When I read the orignal post. I read it the same way T10 that the post was using 3 supporting attacks on the swarm.

Also remember that the swarm will get squish rule. So its the wounds that 3 models + supporting attacks + a wound for every pt they lost is combat res.

MOMUS
09-03-2012, 13:32
Squish (unstable) is worked out after i get my five, S10 attacks.

ewar
09-03-2012, 14:32
I wouldn't call it a dirty trick - if you can pull it off fair play to you.

However bear in mind that razor is not an easy spell to cast, even for a slann, so you'll be casting on at least 5 dice for any reasonable chance of it getting through assuming you've sucked out some dispels. Personally I wouldn't risk my slann on it when you can get the same effect much more easily by using a suicide skink chief on terradon with banehead.

It doesn't risk the slann and he is more mobile, so can fly over intervening units to get to the back. Just be aware he's not amazing and with a few slightly below average dice he'll be squished.

A build I've thought about using a few times is ASF sword, banehead, potion of foolhardiness - brings 4 S4 attacks, rerolling misses against I4 or less and doubling wounds, so only need to get two on a lord wizard to take them out.

MOMUS
09-03-2012, 15:48
I wouldn't call it a dirty trick - if you can pull it off fair play to you.

Cheers- Some people in my local group think redirecting is dirty/cheesey. :wtf:




However bear in mind that razor is not an easy spell to cast, even for a slann, so you'll be casting on at least 5 dice for any reasonable chance of it getting through assuming you've sucked out some dispels.

Perhaps i would be better off with miasma on the targte unit -D3I and then let poison scare them. The trick was meant to be a 'mindrazor dart', so to scare the enemy in using dispel dice against it so i could then cast withering or pit and cause some real damage. Or he would let me have the mindrazor and risk losing his character.



A build I've thought about using a few times is ASF sword, banehead, potion of foolhardiness - brings 4 S4 attacks, rerolling misses against I4 or less and doubling wounds, so only need to get two on a lord wizard to take them out.

I really like the idea of the skink cruise missile (all the rage in 5th ed) but it eats into points i would spend on scar vets and magic item caddies. Why not a potion of strength? -A skink chief has I6, so its even better than you thought. :D

SanDiegoSurrealist
09-03-2012, 16:22
I was thinking more about this tactic last night and I like it.

Was also thinking “What about doing the same thing with a Skirmished unit of 15-20 Skinks in a Conga-Line, with either Mind Razor or Flesh to Stone?” It could possibly hold small units just long enough to get a unit of Saurus around on their flank. And now the enemy are swinging on one 20mm base.

Not sure if any of this would work just thinking out loud and in type.

ewar
09-03-2012, 17:41
Cheers- Some people in my local group think redirecting is dirty/cheesey. :wtf:




Perhaps i would be better off with miasma on the targte unit -D3I and then let poison scare them. The trick was meant to be a 'mindrazor dart', so to scare the enemy in using dispel dice against it so i could then cast withering or pit and cause some real damage. Or he would let me have the mindrazor and risk losing his character.



I really like the idea of the skink cruise missile (all the rage in 5th ed) but it eats into points i would spend on scar vets and magic item caddies. Why not a potion of strength? -A skink chief has I6, so its even better than you thought. :D

Don't know why I wrote 4, must have been thinking of regular skinks. Either way I hunk he has potential, plus the ability to join a unit of flyers for cover is quite nice. However I've found terries very underwhelming in 8th - once the rocks are gone they're a bit useless plus with he growth in unit sizes rocks are much less dangerous.

The Vets are great, but don't listen to too much Internet hype, anything with S6+ or KB will take them down pretty easily. Low WS isnt great as they will normally only get 2 hits in combat, which isn't exactly game breaking.

Anyway, I'd be interested to hear how you get on with the swarmpedo (tm). I've actually never taken swarms as they look so useless.

SanDiegoSurrealist
09-03-2012, 18:58
... hear how you get on with the swarmpedo (tm). I've actually never taken swarms as they look so useless...

So far best use I have found for them is marching them out fast in front and using them to pull out OnG Fanatic, other than that meh. At 45 points that is half way to a unit of skinks.

MOMUS
09-03-2012, 21:29
Don't know why I wrote 4, must have been thinking of regular skinks. Either way I hunk he has potential, plus the ability to join a unit of flyers for cover is quite nice. However I've found terries very underwhelming in 8th - once the rocks are gone they're a bit useless plus with he growth in unit sizes rocks are much less dangerous.

Anyway, I'd be interested to hear how you get on with the swarmpedo (tm). I've actually never taken swarms as they look so useless.


He defo has potential, i may consider adding a skink-missile if the scar vets dont float my boat. You would need a unit of 5 models though if you wanted the chief to get a LOS (cavalry). I drop rocks as soon as possible with my terradons, usually on something i can easily squish and make as many units panic as possible (as its done in the movement phase you get another chance to panic nearby units in the magic and shooting phases). They then march block behind enemy lines and act as 'bouncers', so when an enemy unit flees it will be forced to bounce over the (spread out) terradons meaning its out of the rest of the game or off the board.

Swarmpedo, very good :)