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Pain4life
10-03-2012, 03:08
Hi people,

as some of you UK residents know, this year there is an even called armies on parade for the games day in september where you have to take a 2" x 2" base and have a minimum 3 units on it to try and tell some sort of story,

my idea was going to see the base done in a sandy/desert looking color, and have my IG veteran/command squad with wounded guys in it being picked up by a valkyrie wilth its ranp down and medics running out the back, in the air hovering over this rescue I was ging to put a FW vulture gunship with punisher cannons.

however, given recent events in afghanistan I am wondering weather this would be accepted and viewed for what it is or weather people would take it to heart a little

all comments welcome

chromedog
10-03-2012, 03:24
Generally the rule is "if you think it might upset someone, DON'T do it". Especially if it references REAL WORLD military in any time period.
Especially if it's WW2 and the pickled cabbage eaters (and doubly so if it is modern and "War on Terror").

Unless you are doing it as an "art" piece and it is designed to get a negative response.

For the record, unless it references "war crimes" or other equally heinous acts, I'm fine with a CASEVAC diorama. Not that the background of the IG for 40k makes any real references for casualty repatriation and rehab (it's just more meat into the grinder, generally). Casualty retrieval is not grim-dark enough, apparently.

Hell, even the glory boys of the imperium (Space Marines) have their medics do battlefield euthanasia.

Pain4life
10-03-2012, 03:42
I was kind of hoping people would see it as a heroic action, the IG going out of its way to help its veterans as there combat experience or intel is key to winning a war or simply because command in there wisdom told them to...

it was also to try and make people understand the logistics of the IG, because, yes ok, they have billions of bodies to churn into the warmachine that is 40k but I would think resources would be used to help the wounded and also fetch and carry supplies ect, like our army today, the IG must have behind the scense backbone somewhere

however case in point, it leavs me wondering weather what I trying to do is to near the truth of what goes on in recent conflicts

Pain4life
10-03-2012, 03:56
can I grab a consensus from half a dozen 40k fans and be honest, brutal if you like, but if the majority of people are ok with it then I will go ahead, I need this case to be tried at the court of public oppinion

zoggin-eck
10-03-2012, 03:57
Weird. I really don't get your concern at all. Surely other setups/dioramas would be the same anyway. Having them shoot at people is also similar to "recent events" where people shoot at each other and so on. This is the sort of thing the game and background is all about.

Just don't paint them up as modern/real life troops, and you'll be fine. It doesn't sound likt that's your intent anyway.

Caelas
10-03-2012, 04:00
I think you are fine, there is no reference to Iraq/Afghanistan apart from the desert setting, which could always be changed to something else if you are still feeling uncomfortable.

Pain4life
10-03-2012, 04:06
maybe a snow field, I'm thinking 1 of creeds' 8th army veteran squads in trouble, so would paint them in the good old fasioned IG green

Lothlanathorian
10-03-2012, 04:14
Yeah, just don't do it as a desert if you are concerned about a negative reaction. Then people will likely see it for what it is, a fine piece of IG diorama.

zoggin-eck
10-03-2012, 04:25
I really don't think you need to change the desert theme, if that's what you really wanted to make originally. Hell, we have deserts in Australia, how about other countries? Why on earth does desert mean Afghanistan? Besides, it's a two foot slice of a world. That doesn't mean the rest is all desert, parts of my home look like that in summer and I'm surrounded by forest.

Go with what you want. If it's such a concern, add some obviously 40k terrain features. I don't remember seeing any half-buried aquilas or crazy alien cacti on the news.

lantzkev
10-03-2012, 04:42
Sounds like a good dramatic looking piece.

How is this controversial? Do we have sci-fi armies currently?
So far the only similarity to current events is that it's got a desert...

Terrain is hardly commentary unless you have them getting evaced from twin towers or osamas compound or whatever else similar you can think of.

Lord Inquisitor
10-03-2012, 05:34
I can't say there's much about IG in a desert setting that could possibly be considered offensive by any normal person. There are plenty of movies, even scifi movies with that setting. As long as you avoid obvious references to modern soldiers and anything obviously inflammatory like suicide bombers.

That said, if I were entering a competition I wouldn't want the slightest chance of the judges passing over my entry on the basis of it being inappropriate for some reason, rightly or wrongly.

Dylius
10-03-2012, 08:26
I can't imagine anyone having a problem with it - in fact it's quite poetically fitting for the rescue to take place there (desert = death as it's lifeless). But if you still feel uneasy about it just do what the others said and set it in a different area.

Kijamon
10-03-2012, 08:39
Not only do I like the idea but I want you to make it now so I can see it realised.

If even one person makes the connection between 40k and real life and thinks a little harder about our real life servicemen and women then that's a greater triumph than if you win the competition.

The Red Pilgrim
10-03-2012, 08:55
Just swap the terrain if you're genuinely worried about offending anyone. Desert becomes snow - ta da.

Happicus
10-03-2012, 09:10
As a veteran and current member of the armed forces I can say that I find nothing offensive about your idea. I like to see heroics wether base on an actual scenario or not. If it was a depiction of a war crime or suicide bombing I would probably view it differently. But I think a a CASEVAC is suitably PG-13.

Pain4life
10-03-2012, 10:08
I was going to leave the enemy they were facing up to the person viewing it, they can make there own mini story up, however I could always have a wounded vet with a nid claw sticking out of his leg or something (does this remind you of starship trooper 3 in any way)

lantzkev
10-03-2012, 10:17
Now referencing starships troopers... THAT is offensive! :evilgrin:

trigger
10-03-2012, 10:31
I don't see a problem ,

But as a different idea , in a jungle or forest , your landing zone could have been man made with det cord. Splintered trees and such all over the place

Necronartum
10-03-2012, 10:39
Sounds fine to me.

The advice that has been given is pretty sound. Whilst I personally wouldn't see any problem with a desert setting, you could easily avoid it by simply changing the terrain. A jungle or snow piece would look particularly good.

Realise your idea and post the pictures here on Warseer. I would love to see it when it is finished!

Pain4life
10-03-2012, 16:32
that I can do, I plan to start the creation on April 4th, I will buy a 2" x 2" board section and all the models needed for this, get them primed black and and put them in position then all I will have to do is await the delivery from FW and take pics to give the basic idea, I will do a project log on here for those that are intreasted and post the link here when I have it

thanks for all the input guys, if anyone has any way I should/could expand my idea please let me know

Chapters Unwritten
10-03-2012, 17:25
I see no reason this would be offensive, especially if you labelled it something heroic or noble.

carlisimo
10-03-2012, 21:04
Everything about that diorama is positive in feel. Even if it does remind viewers of Afghanistan, it's in a safe way. It's what we wish could've happened.

Besides, this will be in September. By then people will remember the general tone of the war more than any particular incident. A heroic rescue of wounded soldiers would be well received.

Draconis
10-03-2012, 21:15
I've pulled double tour in iraq, 3 years worth, and have a purple heart to show for it. This wouldn't bother me in the slightest. Its a sci-fi game using sci-fi models. Its a war game. If people have problems with a diorama that they think is to close to real life, they shouldn't be playing a "war" game in the first place.

Pain4life
10-03-2012, 21:56
OORAH! to that, so desert it is, do you think the vulture would look silly having muzzle flash pinned into the punishers?

also what is the view on the "enemy" put a few models on (maybe a few nid gants) or leave them off and open to interpritation?

Disposable Hero
10-03-2012, 22:28
I am not sure if the US army still have units like them or even call them that, but I used to read a whole lot about the vietnam era Dust Off ambulance Hueys. I think they were 1st AirCav and these guys deserve all the love people can send them.

I have been in the Army for 7 years and I can find no fault with your diorama. Quite the contrary.

I always wanted to make a diorama with traitors and heretics in a pit and guards firing into said pit. Now that I can imagine getting the judges attention, but your theme is quite cool. Go for it, and post pics, please.

Oppressor
10-03-2012, 23:55
OP, I never once thought of real life the entire time you were explaing your diorama until you told me about the connection.











So, do the diorama the way you explained and keep yer mouth shut! :D

Draconis
11-03-2012, 00:11
The army still uses blackhawks to get wounded troops out. The only catch is you have to be out of the danger zone. Even if someone gets shot, or takes shrapnel from an IED (roadside bomb), you have to keep driving a couple miles down the road before you can call in a medvac.

Pain4life
11-03-2012, 00:19
nooo... this evac is right in the thick of it, hence the need to have the gunship on station to dish out the firepower and provide cover for the valk while also presenting a more intimidating threat the the enemy

Draconis
11-03-2012, 00:40
It's 38,000 years into the future mate. On a different world. I'm certain things have changed :)

Tethylis
11-03-2012, 04:13
It's 38,000 years into the future mate. On a different world. I'm certain things have changed :)

War. War never changes. :skull:

Pain4life
11-03-2012, 15:30
of course things change, or are you saying in WW1 they had BVR missiles, Gen 5 fighter jets ect?

if you have to look back and then look at what there is now it has all changed, it the same in 40k, or are you telling me we have man portable laster guns and people capable of turning your brains to mush psychicly already exist?

tethylis, your also not to far adrift of me, im in darlington, what a small world lol

Draconis
11-03-2012, 16:13
It's a quote...

Pain4life
11-03-2012, 16:16
quote..? where from?

Sons of Lorgar
11-03-2012, 16:59
A very popular Computer RPG, go on youtube, search for 'fallout intro' you'll find the quote and a good piece of gaming history while at it.

Second, just do the display, it'll be awsome! As for the muzzle flashes, use the cotton ends of a cotton swab, some super-glue in the punisher barrel, put the swab there, hold until dry, then pull the stick so the cotton tears a bit but stays on the barrel, use tweezers to pull it to shape and then glue it solid ready to paint. For realistic effect, make sure the 'flame' goes out and up in an inverted J shape.

Pain4life
11-03-2012, 17:10
Yea, the biggest challeng eI think I will face is actually painting the flame effet, Do you think the position of the vulture should be directly to the side of the vlak or set at it's 4 - 5 o'clock position, how do you think it would look if I was able to put 2 vultures on station, 1 either side or is this a little overkill?

Pain4life
11-03-2012, 19:02
tethylis, send you a pm btw, what you think of 2 vultures?

Tethylis
11-03-2012, 20:32
I think so long as it does not look too crowded then two vultures could work well. 2'x2' is quite a size but am not sure what the wing spans are like on valks/vultures. Personally I would try to set it like a triangle formation with the two vultures positioned towards the back of the board providing cover fire over the extraction scene in the center foreground.

Pain4life
11-03-2012, 20:40
thats the idea, not sure how close to put the gunships though, they need to be close enough to provide cover but so far as to look like there just in same airspace

I think on a 2" x 2" I will stick with just 1 vulture, otherwise the airspace is going to get crowded

Hrw-Amen
12-03-2012, 00:34
Unless the competition is being judged by religious extremists I would have thought people would view that sort of scene very favurably. People being rescued, nothing upsetting about that at all, regardless of the terrain.

Draconis
12-03-2012, 04:41
lol, not sure what religion would have a problem with that scene..

Pain4life
12-03-2012, 10:36
I don't know, some god-fearing-cretin will somewhere

Beppo1234
12-03-2012, 12:19
I was kind of hoping people would see it as a heroic action, the IG going out of its way to help its veterans as there combat experience or intel is key to winning a war or simply because command in there wisdom told them to...

it was also to try and make people understand the logistics of the IG, because, yes ok, they have billions of bodies to churn into the warmachine that is 40k but I would think resources would be used to help the wounded and also fetch and carry supplies ect, like our army today, the IG must have behind the scense backbone somewhere

however case in point, it leavs me wondering weather what I trying to do is to near the truth of what goes on in recent conflicts

no one will care, and the weather has nothing to do with it

dangermouse425
12-03-2012, 12:51
No one will care unless you put swastikas on it, honestly.

40k already uses a lot of real-world parallels, doing a diorama that depicts the IG in a similar light to a modern day military force isn't controversial at all.