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View Full Version : Any one else then me bored by the rumor clampdown?



Eldoriath
11-03-2012, 17:43
Disclaimer:
Not a thread to bash GWs rumor policy as such, but rather just to vent how you feel about it. I'm not angry or annoyed at the rumor clampdown, it's their choice how they want to do it. But man am I bored because of it.

I just don't feel the same ethusiasm any longer since I can't even know what I'm supposed to look forward to. Things just pop up out of the blue and I go all like "Cool, nice model." but not more then that. Or when a new codex hits the shelves I go a bit "meh, haven't heard squat about it really." and don't feel any curiosity.

The other end of the spectrum is the leaked orc codex. When that happened I felt excited, it was a bit illegal/forbidden but it did pump my interest in the game. Also when you get rumors you feel the need to check in the codex if everything is correct or if something has been transformed on the road to the internets. But if I don't know anything I barely feel a need to check the codex out more then to see what has changed if even that.

Dunno, but just hanging out here waiting without knowing squat is boring. For model releases it doesn't matter that much, but it's mainly on the rules side that I'd like to have a bit more then the floor scrapings (not that I'm not gratefull for our rumor-mongers. I love what they do, just boring that they can't share more either because they aren't allowed or don't know more). It's just... boring. It's like just suddenly seeing a new game in the PC game section and not having heard squat about it, you just don't show any interest unless you are a hard-core fan of the game series.

No rumors, no hype, no increased interest. That is how I feel about the lack of rumors.

Scribe of Khorne
11-03-2012, 18:01
No rumors, no hype, no increased interest. That is how I feel about the lack of rumors.

Agree completely, but I am sure the bean counters at GW have a reason. Seems lame though.

Radium
11-03-2012, 18:05
I actually like the quiet. No worrying about what army is coming next, having rules designed only to ruin 40k. I'm just happily painting away and enjoying the hobby for once. And when I see new releases I'm actually excited by the awesomeness that GW managed to create (or not, but so far so good).

Eldoriath
11-03-2012, 18:05
Yeah, the bean counters probably has got it right as well. That is what they are hired for after all. Just a shame that I'm not part of their target group and that too few are part of the group that spend more by getting more rumors. If it had been the reverse we probably would have gotten more rumors.

It's not that I want to know everything a year in advance, but starting to get hints about upcoming release and a few tidbits 6 months in advance with a small addition of rumors every now and then up till release is what I would like to see. Long enough in advance to not be in the dark, but not enough info in the beginning to take away the hype when the releasy finally hits the shelves.

Battleworthy Arts
11-03-2012, 18:13
From a business standpoint, I get it. I really do.

From a personal standpoint, it blows. I loved and enjoyed the rumor mill, and mourn its vegetative state.

S_A_T_S
11-03-2012, 18:18
It bores me. I got really excited about Blood Angels - saved up money, planned my purchases, got my old models out and started repainting well in advance, thinking about how to do honour guard/sanguinary guard (all gold or just gold helmets?). It was great, and got me really pumped. I even bought the products from GW brick & mortar! I hadn't bought a boxed set of anything from them, let alone a book, for at least 8 years as I get everything I need from Maelstrom at just an overpriced cost, rather than complete rip off price.

Now I hear some rumour about Tau, and my gf has a small-to-medium sized kroot force we've just rescued from parents cupboards and I'd love to help her expand it, but I simply don't know when this codex is coming out, what changes are going to be made, how kroot will work in it. If we knew, we could reorganise what we have, choose a paint scheme, get working and building excitment until release day, then go to a store and buy all the cool new things as soon as they are released. NOW, we're going to have to wait until it is release, then do the reorganising, painting, etc, and in my experience if you do it that way (wait until release before thinking about it) you lose momentum and just end up thinking "None of it looks as cool or interesting as it did when it was released, I can't be bothered to spend any cash now." It's a real shame.

Turrican1983
11-03-2012, 18:25
From a business standpoint, I get it. I really do.

I don't get it from a business stand point, because now I don't know what the hell to buy for 40K.
If I knew that Eldar were 6 months away, I'd start my Eldar army now.

ac4155
11-03-2012, 19:10
Isn't the reason for the rumour lockdown part of the new Hobbit contract? I heard that they had to prove there would be no leaks of any hobbit material before its intended release, so that they did not give away spoilers for the films.

So, hopefully after the two films are released it should be back to normal. But that wont be for another 2ish years.

Battleworthy Arts
11-03-2012, 19:19
I don't get it from a business stand point, because now I don't know what the hell to buy for 40K.
If I knew that Eldar were 6 months away, I'd start my Eldar army now.

The idea is to get people to buy what exists now, rather than waiting for the next big thing.

TimLeeson
11-03-2012, 19:22
I can relate, for me the rumours kinda became the driving force for my excitement - like a rumour about something coming out would get me excited and they'd be the tension building up to the release. When things just "appear", I don't really have that feeling of excitement. I'm sure everyones different though - as I see some folk here actually like it like that which is totally fair enough.

Chem-Dog
11-03-2012, 19:25
I can see why they keep a tight leash on these things, with the flood of "third party" manufacturers supplying specific pieces that, being utterly honest about it (but not judging :)), trade off of GW's IP.

So it's a pain, yes, but not necessarily one that GW enjoys very much.

Wintermute
11-03-2012, 19:42
I've moved this thread to GW General Discussion.

Wintermute

Melkanador
11-03-2012, 19:52
The idea is to get people to buy what exists now, rather than waiting for the next big thing.

For me it´s counterproductive as I buy my army over time but I won´t do it if I have to assume my army might get some new miniatures to replace the old ones when I actually want to have the old models.

Wouldn´t be a problem if GW would still sell older miniature ranges but they stopped that. Too bad for them, no money from me.


The whole rumour thing GW implemented might be ok for their target audience (12-16 teens) but not for the people like me who´ve been in the hobby around 18 years.

superdupermatt
11-03-2012, 20:00
I heard that the rumour clampdown was part of the New Line licence, as a lot of the details in The Hobbit are still hush hush. To show that they could keep it quiet they embargoed all information. Hopefully it'll relax again once The Hobbit is released.

jack da greenskin
11-03-2012, 20:09
The rumour clamp down, amongst other things, has led me from being mildly interested in the upcoming releases, to not actually caring, AT ALL, unless those new models are useful in other games like malifaux and warmachine.

Well played bean counters.

Lord Inquisitor
11-03-2012, 20:09
Much as I like to bash GW from time to time - on this matter, why such a big deal?

The models don't come out any faster. If anything it's kind of cool that there's a relatively short period between "wow that's a neat model, I wonder what it does?" and having the army book in my hand, reading the rules myself rather than reading rumoured rules dripped out for months beforehand (although piecing them together does have a degree of entertainment value).

Certainly some aspects (which armies are coming out when) it'd be nice to know well in advance in terms of planning armies but other than that, eh, not bothered in the slightest myself.

yabbadabba
11-03-2012, 20:19
I heard that the rumour clampdown was part of the New Line licence, as a lot of the details in The Hobbit are still hush hush. To show that they could keep it quiet they embargoed all information. Hopefully it'll relax again once The Hobbit is released. I have to agree with this, however with a caveat that GW have clamped down on secrecy on and off for years. Between 94-96 as staff you had two sources of information on new releases if you didn't have an inside source; WD or that week's order form.

In the end whatever the current reason, it will revert at some point in the future, almost certainly. For me, I find rumours ruin the surprise and the endless speculation and unnecessary negativity do not make any contribution. As for planning, I want to see the book first and spend some time thinking about things with the original document before splashing out. There is very little GW do that disrupts my hobby plans.

baneful
11-03-2012, 21:17
The rumour clamp down, amongst other things, has led me from being mildly interested in the upcoming releases, to not actually caring, AT ALL, unless those new models are useful in other games like malifaux and warmachine.

Well played bean counters.

Quoted for truth.

Grimtuff
12-03-2012, 00:00
The rumour clamp down, amongst other things, has led me from being mildly interested in the upcoming releases, to not actually caring, AT ALL, unless those new models are useful in other games like malifaux and warmachine.

This.

Compare GW's complete blackout to PP's recent reveal of the Colossals in WM, whilst I do think PP jumped the gun a little too early, as they've not released/previewed all of the units from Wrath/Domination yet and Colossals is not out until July, it shows how to do a slow build up of a major release, giving out little titbits of info. Up until a few days ago the talk of Colossals died down ,as there was no new news on them, but with Stormwall getting previewed and there being more info on their capabilities in the latest issue of No Quarter the conversation has sparked up again.

Rinse and repeat for the next 4 months, as we have 4 more Colossals to see. :)

Now considering their price (which incidentally was a major catalyst in discussion) if they did it the "GW way", no-one would buy them. Nobody has that kind of cash squirreled away, and this is something I do not get. GW products are somewhat expensive and well beyond many people's impulse buy thresholds. Gamers are an instant gratification bunch and do not want to wait, the two strategies simply do not mix IMO. When the TWC were previewed my reaction was a resounding "meh". I'd already converted 2 from Canis and got another 5 from a 3rd party supplier. I'm sure a lot of other people had the same reaction.

Were GW to have previewed them earlier, as like, doing a bit of viral marketing, say a Youtube video of that "High calibre vid-steal of a trio of Space Wolves cavalry riding into battle against a large mob of armoured Orks" (yes that was taken straight from the TWC entry in the SW codex and screamed "Youtube viral ad" to me). But the Internet is just a "passing fad" to GW...

de Selby
12-03-2012, 00:39
It bothers me two ways:

1. I remember when games days were practically a one-stop shop for the next year's model designs and so I got to see unpainted pics of the new stuff well ahead of release. These days it can be a long time after release before I see what the product I can actually buy really looks like (as opposed to the eavy metal job which I may not like). So that's not a good way to sell things to me.

2. Without knowing the schedule of future releases I don't understand how anyone can be expected to invest in a new army like, say, necrons. Is there another wave coming? I think so but I'm not sure, so after what happened to the nids it doesn't seem smart to start work on an army unless you already know the range is complete and all the units you wnat are available. And it shouldn't have been complete for too long or there may be a surprise update that invalidates what you've got. So it's actually quite a select group of armies that should sell better under the total secrecy plan: relatively new but not so new they're not complete ranges. For 40k that's pretty much just a few Imperial factions and Dark Eldar at the moment.

stroller
12-03-2012, 01:35
I don't get it. I have figures to paint and to play. EVERY army is going to change sometime. Until it does, I'll enjoy playing, and adding. Why choose not to play somthing just in case it might change in months or years - or not?

Putty
12-03-2012, 02:23
gw?

i stopped caring.

MajorWesJanson
12-03-2012, 05:52
I've found I don't mind as much. I love building kits and playing, while painting is usually more of a chore to me. Not knowing what is too far ahead means I focus more on what I have, rather than planning or starting a new army. Nearly all kits are going to still be around when I get around to buying them, like the Thunderwolves. I will get some later, no hurry.

FW, on the other hand, I like to know in advance so I can save for it. titans and Land Rader Proteuses (Proteii?) require a bit of lead time to save money for.

Scammel
12-03-2012, 09:55
I'd be bothered a lot more if there really was much of a clampdown. We have very strong inklings of the entire release schedule of this year and a couple from next year and whilst we may not be clued up on all the specifics, that's pretty good and it's more than enough to generatre hype (CSM rumour thread anyone?)

sigur
12-03-2012, 10:14
There are still lots of rumours around. Sure, a bit fewer solid ones but to be honest I don't care much and I'm not sure so many people who play GW games or buy their figures do. GW release a LOT of stuff constantly and I find it exciting enough trying to keep up with their releases to be honest. ;) But then I'm not one to enjoy discussing rumours because these discussions lack foundation and usually derail even more quickly than normal threads.

Tarax
12-03-2012, 10:38
Isn't the reason for the rumour lockdown part of the new Hobbit contract? I heard that they had to prove there would be no leaks of any hobbit material before its intended release, so that they did not give away spoilers for the films.

So, hopefully after the two films are released it should be back to normal. But that wont be for another 2ish years.

Are you saying that because of the contract GW can NOT give any previews of anything Warhammer Fantasy or 40K related items? That must be some tight contract. :eek:

Liber
12-03-2012, 10:55
Yes. It sucks.

Bubbatron
12-03-2012, 10:57
well the news and rumours section would be the first place id stop to read, but i find myself skipping this over completely now

Killgore
12-03-2012, 11:01
Are you saying that because of the contract GW can NOT give any previews of anything Warhammer Fantasy or 40K related items? That must be some tight contract. :eek:

A contract that will bring alot of money to GW :)

Tbh the average gw gamer will not frequent warseer or other forums, and will only recieve a little rumour information that's been passed around so much that its probably pretty far from the truth.

Only people that are truely affected are the minority on these forums. If anything gw is probably doing the warseer population a favour, all the rage and gashing of teeth over every blured picture or 'broken' rule snippet can't be good for the heart

xxRavenxx
12-03-2012, 12:00
all the rage and gashing of teeth over every blured picture or 'broken' rule snippet can't be good for the heart

I remember a customer coming into the store shortly before codex necrons, and nearly having a stroke at how broken c'tan would become due to making the whole table dangerous terrain for all enemy models. He ended up yelling at me, and clenching fists, and storming back out the door. It was impressive to say the least.


To my shock and horror, the c'tan doesn't do that.

x-esiv-4c
12-03-2012, 12:52
Without knowning whats coming down the line, I don't budget in GW spending and therefore spend disposable income else where. Simple.

Eldoriath
12-03-2012, 13:17
Without knowning whats coming down the line, I don't budget in GW spending and therefore spend disposable income else where. Simple.

Yeah, but the bena counters have probably statistics that people like you (and me) will spend our money on the release anyway, just a bit later. And by this method they will catch the impulse buyers and the ones that want to plan, it just happens that these two groups will spend their money over a longer period of time.

Sadly I believe that bean counters have statistics for what they are doing, but I'm still bored and less prone to spend.

EmperorNorton
12-03-2012, 13:39
Yeah, but the bena counters have probably statistics that people like you (and me) will spend our money on the release anyway, just a bit later. And by this method they will catch the impulse buyers and the ones that want to plan, it just happens that these two groups will spend their money over a longer period of time.
For me it rarely works that way. If I don't get something close to the release it goes in the "I'll get it eventually" category. And "eventually" more often than not turns into "never".

xxRavenxx
12-03-2012, 14:38
To comment directly on the "surprise!" value of spoilers, there is a definate timeframe in which a spoiler works.

Most companies have it narrowed down to the 1-4 week margin. Some industries (cars, for example) have a much bigger window because they *need* people to save their cash. (Cars are not impulse buys for most people who aren't called Jerry Seinfeld).

It is seen in marketing that if you know something is coming for too long, you become "used" to it existing before it even goes on sale, and are not as compelled to get one. If you're told "In one week, kiddies, you can have... pokemon orange!!!!!1one!!!(omg!)" you get much much more excited.

The key question to then ask is this: Does GW have enough contact with the public for 2 weeks notice to be enough? I suspect with their website now announcing all items, their mailing list emailing you a link to the new items on preorder, and white dwarf being an event for parents to bring kids into a store to purchase it, they do. If you're an adult, I disbelieve the notion that any small purchase (£35 boxed set?) is beyond your means for an impulse buy. I specifically always have about £50 set aside for wargames purchases, which I replenish the second my disposable income turns up. I'm not saying everyone is that organised, but given a monthly release, I don't think anyone is going to be super shocked to find out a boxed set is coming out.

Bigger releases always have a month or two in advance of "subtle spoilers", be it dreadfleet wanted posters, necron artwork or darkangels hidden on spines of magazines. Incidently, for a hint: If you like dark angels, I'd possibly put a bit of rainy day fund aside, because if I were taking bets, I'd suspect that DA might just be getting something soon... :p

Eldoriath
12-03-2012, 15:26
Yeah, I'm looking forward to the DA release even if I probably won't buy any much model wise. Already own 48 terminators, so I might consider expanding 5 more if they are really nice and/or if they have some new, cool option (otherwise I probably just will buy it from some bit site).

But it would be fun having some new rules even though I'm playing with basically only terminators and have a hard time seeing how they can make any big changes in them. Who knows, they might add something new and fun to play with =)

N1AK
12-03-2012, 16:21
The whole rumour thing GW implemented might be ok for their target audience (12-16 teens) but not for the people like me who´ve been in the hobby around 18 years.

It has nothing to do with target age demographics. You're not the only adult gamer and there are certainly some who haven't been put off by 'less' information getting out before release. When information has been flowing too easily GW ended up in a position where the release of the models was actually after the peak in excitement (certainly with the 7th edition VC book). Now we get a still fairly substantial amount of rumours a couple of months out (look at Empire), more information in the week or so before launch and then a couple of months to focus on it before the new shiny. If GW started leaking Warriors rumours straight after the Empire release they'd be taking attention from a current product to focus it on something that won't be available for months.

N1AK
12-03-2012, 16:22
Bigger releases always have a month or two in advance of "subtle spoilers", be it dreadfleet wanted posters, necron artwork or darkangels hidden on spines of magazines. Incidently, for a hint: If you like dark angels, I'd possibly put a bit of rainy day fund aside, because if I were taking bets, I'd suspect that DA might just be getting something soon... :p

Personally I'm more a fan of traitors and cultists ;) but neither of us will be dissapointed.

x-esiv-4c
12-03-2012, 17:48
Yeah, but the bena counters have probably statistics that people like you (and me) will spend our money on the release anyway, just a bit later. And by this method they will catch the impulse buyers and the ones that want to plan, it just happens that these two groups will spend their money over a longer period of time.

Sadly I believe that bean counters have statistics for what they are doing, but I'm still bored and less prone to spend.

I haven't bought a GW product for over a year.

yabbadabba
12-03-2012, 17:50
I haven't bought a GW product for over a year. You're not alone, but it doesn't mean that its not the correct strategy.

Lord Inquisitor
12-03-2012, 18:19
The rumour clamp down, amongst other things, has led me from being mildly interested in the upcoming releases, to not actually caring, AT ALL, unless those new models are useful in other games like malifaux and warmachine.

Well played bean counters.

Since a lot of people have quoted this for truth, I would like a bit more explanation on this. Why does this follow? Why do you need to know about something 6 months in advance to be excited about the release?

For me, it's the opposite. I was working at GW at the time when the murmak came out. We saw the murmak donkeys ages before it came out. There was a big buzz about it when pics were first leaked. There was another (smaller) buzz when we had store models on display. Then on release everyone seemed bored - after all, it was old news and everyone was talking about the next cool thing that'd be released in four months time.

I certainly don't understand why not knowing what's coming out four months from now would stop you from playing the game. I don't understand why not knowing what's coming out for Empire, for example, would make me not want to play Warhammer, or not interested in what's going to come out for Empire?

yabbadabba
12-03-2012, 19:07
I certainly don't understand why not knowing what's coming out four months from now would stop you from playing the game. I don't understand why not knowing what's coming out for Empire, for example, would make me not want to play Warhammer, or not interested in what's going to come out for Empire? I am wit you, yet I have something that could cast a little light. The longer I worked at GW, the less the new releases were a priority - same with WD. I knew they were coming out, and that I could buy them. There was no driving need to find out what was new anymore, but the excitement on release days was still there, sometimes greater, than when I used to bug my contacts for information. The vast majority of similar length of service hobbyists were similar, but even amongst us old, cynical and gnarly vets there were those who had to know as soon as possible what the new releases were; a few took an almost childish delight in it. They were also more likely to be the ones who bought every army deal, every limited releases, and most new releases - sometimes in 2's so they could keep one BNIB under the bed. Inevitably alot of this stuff never even made it to assembly.

I think that, just like a representation of Warseer, there are some people who need to know in advance, despite there being no rational reason. It is shiny toy syndrome. There is nothing wrong or derogatory about that, its just a reflection of the GW community.

While I know conventional wargamers who get excited about NRs, there is not the same intense desire for rumours and pre-release info in the vast, vast majority I have met or know. Some even chuckle at that need amongst GWs customers. I think its just another culture in that respect.

EmperorNorton
12-03-2012, 19:09
Since a lot of people have quoted this for truth, I would like a bit more explanation on this. Why does this follow? Why do you need to know about something 6 months in advance to be excited about the release?

For me, it's the opposite. I was working at GW at the time when the murmak came out. We saw the murmak donkeys ages before it came out. There was a big buzz about it when pics were first leaked. There was another (smaller) buzz when we had store models on display. Then on release everyone seemed bored - after all, it was old news and everyone was talking about the next cool thing that'd be released in four months time.

I certainly don't understand why not knowing what's coming out four months from now would stop you from playing the game. I don't understand why not knowing what's coming out for Empire, for example, would make me not want to play Warhammer, or not interested in what's going to come out for Empire?

I'd agree that months would be too much, but I'd like to see pictures and prices about a month ahead so I can plan accordingly.

Lord Inquisitor
12-03-2012, 19:25
I am wit you, yet I have something that could cast a little light. The longer I worked at GW, the less the new releases were a priority - same with WD. I knew they were coming out, and that I could buy them. There was no driving need to find out what was new anymore, but the excitement on release days was still there, sometimes greater, than when I used to bug my contacts for information. The vast majority of similar length of service hobbyists were similar, but even amongst us old, cynical and gnarly vets there were those who had to know as soon as possible what the new releases were; a few took an almost childish delight in it. They were also more likely to be the ones who bought every army deal, every limited releases, and most new releases - sometimes in 2's so they could keep one BNIB under the bed. Inevitably alot of this stuff never even made it to assembly.
I'm not sure, most of the people who are obsessive about knowing as much as possible as far in advance as possible (and I used to be very much like that), tend to be "meh, seen it ages ago" when the shiny toy finally gets released. It isn't shiny anymore. I don't see why someone who buys one of everything would be any less likely to impulse buy under the new system.


I'd agree that months would be too much, but I'd like to see pictures and prices about a month ahead so I can plan accordingly.
Yeah, but there's "I'd like" and there's "I'm never going to buy warhammer again unless it's components for warmachine entirely because of this marketing strategy", which is what jack and others seem to be saying.

Eldoriath
12-03-2012, 20:05
Well, after some thinking I have to adjust one of my earlier statements that was a bit hastily constructed and agree 6 months out can be a bit too far out to get to know everything. But two months after a release it would be nice to know what is coming next for the system and nothing more then that. Then you know what to look forward to or if you should just go ahead and put the energy of one of your current projects or if you are to start a completely new project.

This said I have never considered the clamp down as something that makes me buy less as such, I just feel a bit lacking in enthusiasm. Could very well be since I mainly happen to play at a few tournaments each year (mainly because it's a good and fun way to play against new people). Over the year most of the time in the hobby is spent building and painting which I very much enjoy even if the painting at times can feel like a chore.

But, some two-three months out I'd like to have a good base of rumors about approximate rules and/or models. Since models are their main selling point perhaps it's a good idea holding off about these more then "a mecha bigger then a crisis suit" (a nice rumor from the old tau rumor thread btw). It doesn't really give away much and it starts speculations and interest. But rules on the other hand we all know mean nothing without point costs, and as such I'm very interested in knowing about these. Having a few tidbits leaked a bit in advance shouldn't hurt the sales but could rather boost them.

Either way, can't say their change of tactic makes a big impact on my spending habits if I'm completely honest. If I knew more and got more interest I might invest a bit more in units for apocalypse or suchlike. But seeing that I have plenty of models to complete already as it is I have a pretty strict view on buying more then the paint and glue that I need until I've painted up a majority of the unpainted stuff.

Misfratz
12-03-2012, 20:23
...just hanging out here waiting without knowing squat is boring.Perhaps GW are hoping you will spend less time hanging out on Internet fora reading rumours and more time painting and playing with their products - so you then want to buy more.

jack da greenskin
12-03-2012, 21:07
Since a lot of people have quoted this for truth, I would like a bit more explanation on this. Why does this follow? Why do you need to know about something 6 months in advance to be excited about the release?

I'm not sure, most of the people who are obsessive about knowing as much as possible as far in advance as possible (and I used to be very much like that), tend to be "meh, seen it ages ago" when the shiny toy finally gets released. It isn't shiny anymore. I don't see why someone who buys one of everything would be any less likely to impulse buy under the new system.

I dont know, but before, I'd get excited, pick up some models that werent going to get replaced, paint them up, follow rumours, see what was going to be good, try out new combos, turn up on the day of release, buy the book, maybe a new unit or two, but the rumours, not knowing whats coming next month, and the price have stopped me doing that.

Yeah, but there's "I'd like" and there's "I'm never going to buy warhammer again unless it's components for warmachine entirely because of this marketing strategy", which is what jack and others seem to be saying.

I didn't say this was solely because of the rumour policy, I'm just saying, that's what I'm currently doing, and I think the rumour policy is one of the reasons for that.

Wyrd seem to do it quite well. Pics of stuff about 3 months before release. But then again, the rules for the models have been out for maybe 6-12 months.

ChrisIronBrow
12-03-2012, 23:06
Since a lot of people have quoted this for truth, I would like a bit more explanation on this. Why does this follow? Why do you need to know about something 6 months in advance to be excited about the release?

For me, it's the opposite. I was working at GW at the time when the murmak came out. We saw the murmak donkeys ages before it came out. There was a big buzz about it when pics were first leaked. There was another (smaller) buzz when we had store models on display. Then on release everyone seemed bored - after all, it was old news and everyone was talking about the next cool thing that'd be released in four months time.

I certainly don't understand why not knowing what's coming out four months from now would stop you from playing the game. I don't understand why not knowing what's coming out for Empire, for example, would make me not want to play Warhammer, or not interested in what's going to come out for Empire?

For me, it's that long ago GW killed the last bit of trust I had for them as a consumer. They have a habit of invalidating entire armies, or atleast the popular portions of armies, to require you to buy new models to continue playing. As the disgruntled owner of several "illegal" armies, I no longer buy miniatures unless I'm positive I'll get 3-4 years of use out of them. That requires advanced knowledge of whats changing in army books.

A great example is Empire. They were my first Warhammer army, and will always be my favorite. However, I'm probably not going to even bother picking up the new rulebook when it comes out. If I knew what was happening I would be prepping my army, making purchasing decisions, etc.

GW has already tricked me out of hundreds of dollars I refuse to allow them to get $1 more.

Autumn Leaves
12-03-2012, 23:16
The rumour embargo is boring me, so much so i invested intoMantic with over £300 pounds and I'm playing new games now.
Have no idea when I'll be back either...

xxRavenxx
12-03-2012, 23:58
Have no idea when I'll be back either...

You havn't made it far if you're reading the GW general forums though :p

Max Jet
13-03-2012, 00:00
Infos about upcomming releases give me the feeling that a company isn't just after my money right now in this instant and wants me to be excited about whatever they release at the moment. It creates a feeling that I as a costumer am somewhat valuable and am able to plan my hobby spendings a bit better than without any infos. This has nothing to do with "shiny toy syndrome" at all.

Example is the Tyranid second wave. If I'd still play 40k I would have felt somehow bad without any infos. I have not the time to create 4 green stuff monster, nor is that amount of commitment in material costs worth it too me. However the Codex dictates me to either "play without any kind of competitiveness in mind" or use those new creatures which you cannot buy which looks plain awful on the field. without any infos about releases I would be forced to sit there and keep myself only half amused in any pickup game. The knowledge about further releases would have washed a little bit of the "ain't gonna happen" bit away. Without that knowledge I wasn't even able to tell wether this will be a temporary bad time for pickup games or the change for a long period. I like to keep things organized and planned, especially if current products don't satisfy me I would like to know wether I am forced to take it in order to play with new people (or alternetively desperately search for people willing to accept old rules) or if I can expect an improvement.

Whenever my current favourite wargame rules suffer from significant imbalance, the publishing company provides me with infos about the expected tweak or the release of needed unit. I do not need to waste my time writing houserules and convince all opononents, that they are fair. I can play competitively (which is fun for me as Beer and Bretzels are for you) and organize my hobby time accordingly. This is not childish, it's not cut throating and it's not ADHS plagued. It's simply 'I like my hobby organized and planned'


You havn't made it far if you're reading the GW general forums though :p

The GW General forums offer even better infos about upcomming releases, hobby attitudes and budget ideas, than the General Science Fiction and Fantasy Wargames forum of warseer. It's amazing how many surprisingly usefull infos you can dig in these threads.

jack da greenskin
13-03-2012, 00:12
The GW General forums offer even better infos about upcomming releases, hobby attitudes and budget ideas, than the General Science Fiction and Fantasy Wargames forum of warseer. It's amazing how many surprisingly usefull infos you can dig in these threads.

Really? I just come for the hatin' and the negativity ;)

Mastodon
13-03-2012, 08:12
I'd agree that months would be too much, but I'd like to see pictures and prices about a month ahead so I can plan accordingly.

So why not just use the white dwarf as your starting point, and pick your stuff up at the end of that month? At least that way you've got people with the army book in their hand to tell you whats in there and whats not. If I had a pound for every person I've seen buy up a massive amount of boxes for an army thats going to change soon, only to find out that the rumour they read about how they were going to do 40 strength 8 attacks at initiative 10 is wrong I could just about afford a box of Blood Knights.

Why must you purchase it all on new release weekend?




For me, it's that long ago GW killed the last bit of trust I had for them as a consumer. They have a habit of invalidating entire armies, or atleast the popular portions of armies, to require you to buy new models to continue playing. As the disgruntled owner of several "illegal" armies, I no longer buy miniatures unless I'm positive I'll get 3-4 years of use out of them. That requires advanced knowledge of whats changing in army books.

A great example is Empire. They were my first Warhammer army, and will always be my favorite. However, I'm probably not going to even bother picking up the new rulebook when it comes out. If I knew what was happening I would be prepping my army, making purchasing decisions, etc.

GW has already tricked me out of hundreds of dollars I refuse to allow them to get $1 more.

So GW combating the tournament cheese armies and changing broken rules from previous editions is them tricking you? Precious.

Of course they're going to tone down the uber units from the previous book. And its not always about money gouging for new models. Look at the VC release, Ghouls got slightly worse because they were broken when used in Hordes, and Zombies, models GW have had for years, got better.

And on your second point, I cant ever think of an Army that had an update within 5 years of it last being done.

xxRavenxx
13-03-2012, 09:46
And on your second point, I cant ever think of an Army that had an update within 5 years of it last being done.

I think Tau and Space marines fall under this. Tau because their first book was a bit of a... "bland cockup", and their model range needed a big second wave to sort things out. Marines because they're (roughly) first in every edition.

I suspect VC were redone twice in 5 years too? But who cares. It makes the army exciting and a bit different. CCGs use rolling block for this same reason. To keep it fresh.

In the end, complaints that "all your models are useless" when a new book comes out is silly. A book restructures your army a little maybe, but I don't think any of my fantasy or 40k armies have changed much with their last books. I added something shiny and new, but I didn't lose a thing.

Liber
13-03-2012, 10:07
Tau because their first book was a bit of a... "bland cockup", and their model range needed a big second wave to sort things out.


I loved the original Tau codex. Great art. Superb fluff. That was my first army :(

I started playing fantasy for a few years, and I actually considered going back to 40k so I picked up the new Tau codex to get caught up and it was so bland, uninspired and..."wannabe Imperium" that I reconsidered starting 40k and just went back to exclusively playing fantasy as I had been.


On topic Emperor Norton said earlier


If I don't get something close to the release it goes in the "I'll get it eventually" category. And "eventually" more often than not turns into "never".

And that is definitely true for me. The lack of rumors means lack of financial planning. Also (and more importantly IMO) it leads to that fear of "well...what if i spend all this money and then the model gets redone? or the rules change and now the unit sucks? etc etc." which definitely is not conducive to laying down lots of cash.

Killgore
13-03-2012, 10:32
I can't see what the problem is with waiting till after release month then making purchasing decisions.

This way you can make informed plans, aided by relevant articles in WD or other gamers, high definition pictures or eve after seeing the new models in person and with the new codex or army book in hand to cut out the rubbish rumours from fact.

Only downside to this is that you might not be the first kid on the block with the new toys but at least you'd have good financial planning

N1AK
13-03-2012, 12:34
You havn't made it far if you're reading the GW general forums though :p

They never do :rolleyes: they say there's nothing more zealous than a convert and sadly in wargaming that seems apt. What made the point even more amusing is it's not like Mantic are great at sharing rumours, hell I gave up most interest when I got fed up of models going up for sale before they could even show them.

I3uLLioN
13-03-2012, 13:22
But there are plenty of rumours? We know Empire are out in a few weeks time. We know 6th Edition is out this summer. We know the contents of the starter box for goodness sake! How many rumours do people actually want? We also get pictures 2 weeks before things are actually released. As for planning out purchases... perhaps you guys should get your finances in order? If you dont have a couple hundred pounds in the bank perhaps you should start saving some money.

Eldoriath
13-03-2012, 17:25
Can't say anything for the fantasy side since I only have my eyes on 40k for the moment.

But yeah, we know that 6th ed is coming in summer and recently we found out what armies are to be in it (main suprise was that the marines are not all generic but more specifically DA). And we know that CSM will have the next 'dex, but we can't tell if it comes before or after 6th ed. If it comes after it leaves little time for a new 40k codex release this year, and seeing how new years and the time after probably will try to milk the hobbit it will take time until a next 40k release.

It's just that for 6th ed we know basically nada, unless the rumored leak is a very early beta and not a home-made honest/troll attempt which is the popular claim atm. But I'll admit it is some 4-5 months out to release, but I still think we should start getting somre rumors about the rule changes about now.

But on a funny note, I did enjoy the tau rumors very much, even if they happen to be very far out and not coming out this spring as we thought there for a moment. I guess I just want rule rumors to start a bit early so I have something new to look forward to and speculate about. Model rumors, beside vague descriptions, I'm fine with having close to release. Pictures is okay releasing 2 weeks before model release, but unless I know that the model as such is coming I feel a bit "Huh?" about it and generally don't care because I have no connection to it. It's a nice model, but nothing I'm interested in unless it's for the army I'm playing.

shelfunit.
13-03-2012, 19:17
They never do :rolleyes: they say there's nothing more zealous than a convert and sadly in wargaming that seems apt. What made the point even more amusing is it's not like Mantic are great at sharing rumours, hell I gave up most interest when I got fed up of models going up for sale before they could even show them.

Would you care to share which models have gone up for sale (not pre-order) before any previews?

RunepriestRidcully
13-03-2012, 21:28
I'd just like it if they released just a list of armies that were getting redone and when in the new year when it started, that I can save up for it, as I
It also got me playing the original Shogun total war 2 again when I heard about it as it got me excited about the game again, similar happened last weekend.
The trailer here, got me excited again http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uj3-VkbRSKQ. If I had only just found out, I would proberly wait till after the exams this year as by the time I had the money I would have to start revision for exams, and I know I would get little done with it on computer.

ChrisIronBrow
14-03-2012, 11:05
So GW combating the tournament cheese armies and changing broken rules from previous editions is them tricking you? Precious.

Of course they're going to tone down the uber units from the previous book. And its not always about money gouging for new models. Look at the VC release, Ghouls got slightly worse because they were broken when used in Hordes, and Zombies, models GW have had for years, got better.

And on your second point, I cant ever think of an Army that had an update within 5 years of it last being done.

Honestly, you shouldn't even waste our time by responding unless you know what your talking about. many armies have been squatted by GW. I'm the proud owner of a slayer army, a chaos dwarf army, a dogs of war army, a middenheim army, an illegal hordes of chaos army that used mortals, daemons and beasts, My Ulthwe strikeforce, my kroot mercs army, etc.

There are many examples of less than a five year update, hell 5th ed vc book was only legal for like 2 months before they changed it.

ChrisIronBrow
14-03-2012, 11:06
So GW combating the tournament cheese armies and changing broken rules from previous editions is them tricking you? Precious.

Of course they're going to tone down the uber units from the previous book. And its not always about money gouging for new models. Look at the VC release, Ghouls got slightly worse because they were broken when used in Hordes, and Zombies, models GW have had for years, got better.

And on your second point, I cant ever think of an Army that had an update within 5 years of it last being done.

Honestly, you shouldn't even waste our time by responding unless you know what your talking about. many armies have been squatted by GW. I'm the proud owner of a slayer army, a chaos dwarf army, a dogs of war army, a middenheim army, an illegal hordes of chaos army that used mortals, daemons and beasts, My Ulthwe strikeforce, my kroot mercs army, etc.

There are many examples of less than a five year update, hell 5th ed vc book was only legal for like 2 months before they changed it.

Druchii Monkey
14-03-2012, 12:05
I miss the "Incoming" emails that we used to get. Not a lot of detail but enough to build some excitement e.g. Ogre Kingdoms. Plus the Black Boxes GW stores used to get with the soon to come out stuff that you could preview.

Also having a rough idea what would be coming out in the next 6 months so i wouldn't go to town buying stuff that was soon to be replaced was good e.g. Grey Knights.

In general it's also sad not being able to chat to GW staff about rumours based on sneak peaks up at GW HQ etc rather than hearing what they've heard on forums.

If this is all about the release of The Hobbit this year from my point of view it's not worth it. Bring back the above!

6sided
14-03-2012, 14:21
Quashing rumours is fine as long as there is a decent launch program to look to instead.

Autumn Leaves
17-03-2012, 09:49
You havn't made it far if you're reading the GW general forums though :p

Not parting with my money for GW products and playing different systems means that as a customer and a gamer I couldn't have made it much further away ;-)
If the rumours start up again and if anything interesting is coming out I could still have a wee nosey at it though.
Until then my money and gamer time goes elsewhere.

Mastodon
17-03-2012, 23:34
Honestly, you shouldn't even waste our time by responding unless you know what your talking about. many armies have been squatted by GW. I'm the proud owner of a slayer army, a chaos dwarf army, a dogs of war army, a middenheim army, an illegal hordes of chaos army that used mortals, daemons and beasts, My Ulthwe strikeforce, my kroot mercs army, etc.

There are many examples of less than a five year update, hell 5th ed vc book was only legal for like 2 months before they changed it.

There's only One true army there that GW have stopped supporting and thats Chaos Dwarfs. Dogs of War are in the middle in that they were released not just as a single force, but as add ons for existing armies too. The others were all from summer campaign books which were never going to be supported long term and in fact designed purely to release new models for people to add to their collections without doing new army books. Everything else is still fieldable in the current game system, just without the broken special rules.

And I havent got a clue what you're talking about with regards to the 5th ed vc book. Are you trying to say they released a book, then released a new one 2 months after?

The tone of your posts seem to suggest that GW have left a £50 pound note on the ground attached to a string. And everytime you go to pick it up they pull it away while twiddling their moustache.

Spectrar Ghost
18-03-2012, 00:03
No, they updated the core rules and the book needed to to be substantially eratta'd due to the changes, if I recall.

I'd say what makes people upset is the fact that GW put out product they know will shortly be outdated, instead of waiting until the changes have happened and them putting out a product with a long period of usefulness. I feels like GW making a money grab instead of supporting the hobby properly.

jack da greenskin
18-03-2012, 00:24
No, they updated the core rules and the book needed to to be substantially eratta'd due to the changes, if I recall.

I'd say what makes people upset is the fact that GW put out product they know will shortly be outdated, instead of waiting until the changes have happened and them putting out a product with a long period of usefulness. I feels like GW making a money grab instead of supporting the hobby properly.

This is getting off topic, but I think its interesting and would encourage it to be moved to a topic of its own. The problem is, GW rules are not rules to sell a game, they are rules specifically designed to sell models.

I disagree with what you're saying in some respects. Games workshop released the ogre kingdoms book, in which mournfangs are a competitive choice, and the mournfang kit at the same time. So in this respect, You're wrong. I can pick up the box set, enjoy painting them up (I still havent got round to painting mine :p) and have a good 4 years + out of them. After this period, either a new rulebook edition, or a new ogre book will make them less competitive. I'm not a WAAC player, but I wont take a sub optimal list just because thats what I used last edition.

So yeah, I bought mournfangs because they're decent. This is what annoys me. I dont like buying anything big, really at all, both from a cost and a transport perspective, but I bought mournfangs. Had I not bought them, I'd have got an approximately equal value of ogre infantry models. So GW shouldnt be bothered either way if mournfangs are good or not. THIS IS WHY PEOPLE GET ANGRY AT GW THOUGH - Next edition, they will purposely make mournfangs sub optimal, almost to spite all the people who've bought them last edition, and make something else amazing, just so players will go out and buy it. It's like they bleed you, and see any purchase in the past as something disgusting that you must be punished for.

Specifically designing rules to sell models is ludicrous - I'll buy pretty much the same amount anyway, so this is unnecessary IMO.

My tuppence, but just an explanation of what I feel peoples anger is.

yabbadabba
18-03-2012, 00:38
I'd say what makes people upset is the fact that GW put out product they know will shortly be outdated, instead of waiting until the changes have happened and them putting out a product with a long period of usefulness. I feels like GW making a money grab instead of supporting the hobby properly. Welcome to capitalism. GW are not alone in that regard, have made it very obvious what they do and only fashion, capitalist dreams and shiny toy syndrome demands that people react to that.

Spectrar Ghost
18-03-2012, 00:40
I'm not trying to imply that GW puts out items with short useful lives all the time, not by a long shot. I'm saying that GW has a history of putting out products, including but not limited to VC5Ed and Masterclass (the reason this line of thought was started), with very short windows of usefulness. These are often books that are released just before a major chang and completely ignore the existance of that change. There is no reason to do this; they know their release schedule and can make neccessary adjustments to the product, schedule, or both. If they did this, people would not feel deceived; with Masterclass they released a book that will be totally outdated and very hard to reference colors in just three months after it was released.

Waiting would miss the Christmas rush, it's true, but would allow them to release in conjunction with the new paint range, with paints converted to the new ones, and possibly a conversion table from the old range at the back. It is far more useful (I'd have bought one for the conversion table, I didn't buy the one they put out) and encourages players to buy the new paints - "Look what you can do with the new range!" As it is it will probably be referenced very rarely after this month, since all the colors will be outdated.

Yabbadabba - And wouldn't it be good PR to take pains not to get a quick buck? Just because companies do it doesn't mean it should be done. Capitalism is not a system that should replace ethics; it should work alongside. But thats an entirely different discussion.

Mastodon
18-03-2012, 09:12
Thats what the new painting guide is for though. Why release one book when you can release two?

Glabro
18-03-2012, 11:00
The idea is to get people to buy what exists now, rather than waiting for the next big thing.

This would, then, assume a target audience of juveniles with access to unlimited funds. Or miniature addicts & hopeless impulse buyers who buy whatever is new at the time, regardless if it fits into any army.
I suppose if that works for them, good for them.

yabbadabba
18-03-2012, 11:32
Yabbadabba - And wouldn't it be good PR to take pains not to get a quick buck? Just because companies do it doesn't mean it should be done. Capitalism is not a system that should replace ethics; it should work alongside. But thats an entirely different discussion. You're right, it is a discussion for another time.

Re products like VC5Ed and Masterclass. Unfortunately it looks too easy from this side but it rarely is. VC 5ed is now .... 8-10 years ago? I can't see it as being a relevant example, but we do know that more recently army books released nearer to a new rules edition are written with that in mind. As for the Masterclass book the decision could have been forced upon GW, with the idea that they would have lost too much money if they hadn't of released it. But these are two examples of something that is not related to rumours other than rumours totally sinking their sales.

What we have seen is some examples where rumours cause problems, and there is another over in the Empire rumours thread where somone is going to be "angry" if Empire don't come out in April as per the rumours. With who? GW have made no mention of this, so does that mean a rant at a computer screen?

In addition those who claim that if they cannot plan for the release then chances are they won't buy, well did you really want it? Looks to me like GW are actually helping you here by curbing impulse buying. These are not reasons for rumours.

I have said earlier that GW have records which will tell them the effectiveness of the various approaches to handling new releases over the years. They have also had news blackouts before. My experience in Trade and Retail is that some sort of early news release is good for sales, even if it is not necessarily good for the gamer. I also know that the best time to sell the vast majority of such products is within the first 3 months of release. Having a complete news blackout threatens this and is something the Sales companies would have probably resisted. I don't have much repsect for the Board, so I will not rule out stupidity, but chances are this is something that needs to be done, rather than an impulse.

shelfunit.
18-03-2012, 12:24
Re products like VC5Ed and Masterclass. Unfortunately it looks too easy from this side but it rarely is. VC 5ed is now .... 8-10 years ago? I can't see it as being a relevant example,

How is it not relevant? The fact that the VC happened 8-10 years ago is the only irrelevance here - the same concept applies - a new book comes out several months before a new product/range essentially invalidates the "new" book.


but we do know that more recently army books released nearer to a new rules edition are written with that in mind. As for the Masterclass book the decision could have been forced upon GW, with the idea that they would have lost too much money if they hadn't of released it. But these are two examples of something that is not related to rumours other than rumours totally sinking their sales.

If GW painting arm doesn't know they are changing paint suppliers/entire paint range & names only a few months after they have released a book detailing both advanced techniques and step by step guides including which colours to use (which due to the supply change may invalidate both colours and potentially some of the techniques) then something is seriously wrong with release schedule planning and internal communication there.

yabbadabba
18-03-2012, 12:55
How is it not relevant? The fact that the VC happened 8-10 years ago is the only irrelevance here - the same concept applies - a new book comes out several months before a new product/range essentially invalidates the "new" book. So it is an irrelevant example. Skaven have been done with 8th in mind, and I think Dwarves were done with 7th in mind. The books and models were not invalidated on the release of the new edition. So where is the issue?

If GW painting arm doesn't know they are changing paint suppliers/entire paint range & names only a few months after they have released a book detailing both advanced techniques and step by step guides including which colours to use (which due to the supply change may invalidate both colours and potentially some of the techniques) then something is seriously wrong with release schedule planning and internal communication there. Agreed, and that might be the reason why the book was released. There could be other reasons as well, such as delays with the printers, or that it was not considered relevant. I know my experience is that while people will come in and buy the new paints, many more will stock up on the old ones they want and then continue painting using the old colours - hell I still have paints from 1994 that I use. So it doesn't invalidate the book for old customers, but makes it irrelevant to anyone starting an army with the new colours. So why not sell it?

So its not really a prime example.

shelfunit.
18-03-2012, 13:48
So it is an irrelevant example. Skaven have been done with 8th in mind, and I think Dwarves were done with 7th in mind. The books and models were not invalidated on the release of the new edition. So where is the issue?


The issue is because you are talking about something that has not been invalidated - skaven and dwarf models were not invalidated as both skaven and dwarf models can/could/will be able to be used (almost) regardless of edition. The books were not invalidated as they could still be used - as you say yourself were specifically designed for the next edition.
The painting book is invalidated because the colours used in it will no longer exist and some of the techniques may be invalidated by the new paint formulas.

Eldoriath
18-03-2012, 14:11
In defense of new painting books and paints washes was something completely new that had to be covered, and soon we will get a new, thinner wash according to rumors that also need a guide to how to properly use.

As for the old example of releasing the book and then changing the colours three months later... Many people will still have/use the old colours even a year after depending on how much they stock up. So it ain't that much big of a deal while at the same time it is for new gamers that will use the new colours and not the old ones.

yabbadabba
18-03-2012, 14:24
The issue is because you are talking about something that has not been invalidated - skaven and dwarf models were not invalidated as both skaven and dwarf models can/could/will be able to be used (almost) regardless of edition. The books were not invalidated as they could still be used - as you say yourself were specifically designed for the next edition. I'm confused, because my point was that 5ED VC were not a valid example due to the time, and that Skaven and Dwarves were a good example as they were done clearly with the new edition in mind. Are we saying the same thing here?

The painting book is invalidated because the colours used in it will no longer exist and some of the techniques may be invalidated by the new paint formulas. Not at the time of release, nor for some time after IMO. As I said it was irrelevant for people starting new armies with new paints, or new customers, but not for many people, like me, who still use the old paints. It might be different for you and your gaming group, but most hobbyists I know and have known don't drop everything and change paints just because a new range is realised. Most use up their old stuff in conjunction with their new stuff.

shelfunit.
18-03-2012, 14:38
I'm confused, because my point was that 5ED VC were not a valid example due to the time, and that Skaven and Dwarves were a good example as they were done clearly with the new edition in mind. Are we saying the same thing here?

I don't think we are...
My point was the 5th Ed VC book was released a few months prior to 6th Edition - the 5th ed army book was only "usable" until 6th ed - with ravening hordes booklet - came out. People were rightfully annoyed by this as essentially they had spent around £12-15 for a book that was no longer able to be used to play the current edition of WH. Skaven and Dwarfs were a good example of something done with the next edition in mind - I might have been confused about what you were saying in reference to them. The link to the 'EM painting guide is that, much like the 5th ed VC book vast swathes of it will be invalidated by the complete change in the paint range - want to follow a guide that talks about layering certain colours - well, now you can't as those colours will no longer exist (or potentially may not) and that particular layering technique might not be applicable with the consistancy of the new paints.


Not at the time of release, nor for some time after IMO. As I said it was irrelevant for people starting new armies with new paints, or new customers, but not for many people, like me, who still use the old paints. It might be different for you and your gaming group, but most hobbyists I know and have known don't drop everything and change paints just because a new range is realised. Most use up their old stuff in conjunction with their new stuff.

I agree this is moot for customers that were not here 3-4 months ago, but it just shows a shocking level of disrespect to customers who have been around longer than a third of a year and gone out of their way to buy these things.

yabbadabba
18-03-2012, 14:51
Sorry Shelfunit we are going to have to agree to disagree on the painting book.

I think you are being too harsh on GW because they have changed their approach to improve on the release of the 5th ED V book. To use it as an example of GWs carelessness to customers is about as relevant as using the Roman Empire as an example of Italian abuse of domestic servants in the 21st Century. They got it right with the Dwarves and the Skaven IMO, and have been fairly consistent with similar since.

Autumn Leaves
18-03-2012, 14:56
Bottom line is, the release of a panting guide book a few short months ago, based on the old paints, when the new and differently named painting products are now out for sale, is something of a monumental **** up on a variety of levels.
The new products need a new painting guide.
The old products are redundant.

yabbadabba
18-03-2012, 15:00
is something of a monumental **** up on a variety of levels. Not really. The economy is that; the British electoral system is that; Afghanistan is that. This is just poor planning.

The new products need a new painting guide. Agreed

The old products are redundant. I disagree, as would many wargamers who still use old products. And that includes rules and guides. If anything this statement is what GW want you to believe every time they replace something in their line.

shelfunit.
18-03-2012, 15:11
Sorry Shelfunit we are going to have to agree to disagree on the painting book.

Fair enough.


I think you are being too harsh on GW because they have changed their approach to improve on the release of the 5th ED V book. To use it as an example of GWs carelessness to customers is about as relevant as using the Roman Empire as an example of Italian abuse of domestic servants in the 21st Century. They got it right with the Dwarves and the Skaven IMO, and have been fairly consistent with similar since.

I can't fathom your argument. You seem to be avoiding the whole point that a book which cost £12-15 had an existance of 3-4 months before being rendered obsolete. You use skaven & Dwarfs as an example of how well GW can smooth the transition going from one edition to another and I agree, but saying GW got something right with respect to that does not change the fact that they got something wrong previously. It's like saying a company sold openended tickets to an event and then cancelled the event before most people had gone, but a few years later they didn't, so that makes it all right...

yabbadabba
18-03-2012, 15:17
Because it was 8-10 years ago, GW have changed, and its irrelevant to the discussion about rumours in the here and now?

Maybe we should walk away from this one?

shelfunit.
18-03-2012, 15:26
Because it was 8-10 years ago, GW have changed, and its irrelevant to the discussion about rumours in the here and now?

And yet it is relevent as they are doing the exact same thing.


Maybe we should walk away from this one?

Done now.

Mastodon
18-03-2012, 22:39
Im pretty sure that anyone that bought the masterclass painting guide are smart enough to go 'Oh I need a dark blue? Wonder which one of the new paints is closest to that?' and just substitute it. Not to mention that the guide is not just designed for following it to the letter, it infact states several times that the techniques in there are useful no matter which colour pallet you're using. It was not aimed at new people who would need to follow a step by step hand holding approach, but the middle ground painters who have some experience and are looking to push their skills on.

To say its invalidated by the release of a new range is a bit of a reach imo.

ctuttle
18-03-2012, 22:48
To say its invalidated by the release of a new range is a bit of a reach imo.

Agree with this 100%