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Gustovic
16-03-2012, 22:22
Hi.

After a week of hard labour I came up with these two sights. Maybe I'll came up with a third (from above).

Enlarged turret, automatic loader, 200 mm ammo, 40 rounds, raised side skirts, enlarged and fuctional treads, functional front armour.

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/94/img009rt.jpg/
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/811/img008st.jpg/

Enjoy.

Discuss.

totgeboren
17-03-2012, 00:33
It look almost like mine (http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?189881-My-take-on-the-Leman-Russ).
I like it, I wish GW, or even just FW could make it so it looked cool, and not like a... well, I don't know what the Leman Russ looks like. It doesn't look impressive, since it doesn't look like it could even work. Even the Ork Battlewagon looks more impressive and functional.

Gustovic
17-03-2012, 12:30
Hey dude, that's great! Nice tutorial!

Connor MacLeod
19-03-2012, 04:33
Nice but.. why would you go with a 200mm gun? The thing is supposed to have a 120mm gun and 40 rounds. 200mm would't allow you to carry vary many shells and probably would greatly slow down the rate of fire. Nevermind the recoil issues (I think an 203mm shell is something in the vincinty of 40-50 kilos, and flinging that thing at 800-1000 m/s is going to impart significant backwards momentum to the tank, nevermind the effect of propellant.)

gutsmaka
19-03-2012, 08:52
well, if you play DoW1 look at the leman when it fires the battle cannon. it actually comes off the ground due to recoil. so that part of the 200mm gun has already been incorperated

Sai-Lauren
19-03-2012, 13:37
Well, what are the recoil forces from a 120mm gun? If that's badly damped, it would wreck the turret ring, but, in later versions where the ring's been reinforced (rather than adding additional dampers, either because there's no room, or the person designing it doesn't add any, or they're difficult to maintain and/or fail regularly or whatever other reason), cause the tank itself to jump.

Or we dismiss DoW as a fun game, but not exactly canon. ;)

Cthell
19-03-2012, 13:53
Well, what are the recoil forces from a 120mm gun? If that's badly damped, it would wreck the turret ring, but, in later versions where the ring's been reinforced (rather than adding additional dampers, either because there's no room, or the person designing it doesn't add any, or they're difficult to maintain and/or fail regularly or whatever other reason), cause the tank itself to jump.

Or we dismiss DoW as a fun game, but not exactly canon. ;)

I think we can dismiss the Game as being not cannon, since if you watch closely the entire turret recoils when the main gun fires. The only way for this to work would be for the turret ring to be considerably smaller than the turret (to the point where it would be roughly 3ft diameter, based upon the amount of recoil seen)

Mind you, the model itself is badly designed - even the new-style larger turret still puts the main-gun trunnions well forward of the turret ring. As a result, the main gun should have about 5degrees of elevation; still, not as bad as the old demolisher where the barrel was elevated so that the breech would have to be sitting on the top of the hull even before it fired.

Sai-Lauren
19-03-2012, 14:48
Well, the Demolisher's basically a Churchill AVRE - so it could be that there's no breach (the round is loaded externally, and there's only a small counterbalance weight inside)) or the round is fired more like a mortar, and drops on the target from above (making the breaches resting position the gun's shortest effective range, with the barrel lowering to provide the angle for longer range (what there is of it anyway ;)).

Or the barrel is completely fixed, and shot range is determined either by the mix of a binary propellant, or more simply (especially as it's supposed to be used against fixed positions, which can't dodge) by the number of charge bags stuck in behind the shell, (which is done for Earthshakers - up to an additional two charges can be added, but doing so seriously shortens the life of the gun).

It is a dodgy design though. :)

Gustovic
19-03-2012, 16:19
Well, I choosed the 200 mm gun because the original 360mm one seemed a little bit exaggerated. There is plety of room for the rounds. There is space for nearly 30 of them in the turret and at least other 25 in the hull. The recoil doesen't seems an issue to me. We are in the 40.000th year, can we just assume that in 38.000 years there have been invented a device to reduce the recoil =)?

blurrymadness
25-03-2012, 01:27
Something to note is that auto-loaders still aren't usually used; but are quite able to be built. This is because they're expensive, can't only do it about as well as people (if slower), and they take up *more* room iirc. Using people to load is still very efficient, less prone to breaking down, and again; IIRC takes up less room. Are we just overthinking some of this?

Connor MacLeod
25-03-2012, 16:28
200 is pretty exaggerated too. There was a printing of Leman Russ stats in one of the old Chapter Approved books (I heard 2004 but I think it was earlier) as per here (http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-oJVd2MPs6_Y/Tt6zKbYwAUI/AAAAAAAAFLM/60rmCmRtQIM/s1600/Leman_Russ_Specs.jpg). I also heard it had popped up on one of the old GW websites as an image, and it says 120mm barrel despite being grotesquely huge. The novel 'Gunheads' also has a Vanquisher measuring in at 120mm IIRC, and its not much larger than a Russ barrel (only longer.)

We have ways of dealing with (reducing) recoil forces in real life and most modern tanks use them. Whether russes do or not is up for debate, but there are limits to that dictated by momentum without some sort of counterforce mechanism (Think of a recoilless rifle)

Also as far as the ammo goes: an 8 inch shell compared to a person (http://www.warrelics.eu/forum/military_photos/ordinance-ammo/97705d1271350172-my-8-inch-howitzer-shell-me-big-fella..jpg) and 120mm vs 140mm (http://media.photobucket.com/image/120mm%20vs%20140mm%20ammunition/Dostanuot/140mm-1.jpg). IIRC 140mm shells (one of the proposed next generation tank gun concepts) massed as much as a 120mm with propellant and everything. (120mm is like 20 kg IIRC, and that menas 140mm would be 40 kg. A 203mm howitzer is some 90 kg IIRC) I have a hard time picturing anyone loading those manually. Autoloaders are possible (the Demolisher as per Inferno had one) but I'm pretty sure many sources have Russes manually loaded.

If the large-calibre/short barrel had to be rationalized it might be some sort of gun-launched missile like the Shillelagh (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MGM-51_Shillelagh) off the M551 Sheridan which has a barrel (http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_VSPwCGYvhok/TLvrkPuOD5I/AAAAAAAAD_M/kiW-mCJbFvo/s1600/HPIM0198-751975.JPG) that looks alot like Conqueror or Krieg Russes here (http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Warhammer-40000/Imperial_Guard/Death-Korps-of-Krieg/DEATH-KORPS-OF-KRIEG-MARS-ALPHA-PATTERN-LEMAN_RUSS-WITH-MODIFIED-RYZA-PATTERN-TURRET.html) Of course maybe the visuals shouldn't be paid too much attention to in this case period.

Cthell
25-03-2012, 21:00
Well, inspired by the thread, here's my attempt

136255

Rundown of changes:

Redesigned turret - battlecannon trunnions moved to a position over the turret ring, with the turret extending forward of the trunnions (like the merkava); smaller battlecannon and wider turret mean space for recoil between gunner and commander

Shorter-barrelled sponson weapons, coupled with rotary periscope on top of sponson

Redesigned hull weapon mount - based off the macharius twin-heavy stubber mounting

Redesigned tracks - wider so they extend to the width of the side skirts (like the centaur and macharius)

what do people think?

Inquisitor Aaron
25-03-2012, 23:14
That looks really good cthell!

MajorWesJanson
26-03-2012, 02:46
Cthell, very nice. only changes I would make would be to extend the tracks and wheels lower at the bottom, to give more room for suspension, and keep the larger sponson weapons that extend out further. The ones you have look like they are inset rather far into the turret, making it hard to rotate the gun. Also remember that heavy bolters are 1.00 calibre, or 1"/ approx 25mm. You also have things like Multimelta and Plasma Cannon sponsons, which again would look quite strange in fun size sponson mounts.

Hunterindarkness
26-03-2012, 08:14
I have a great dislike for they style of tanks in 40k. Be nice to have a tank that's hull was not based off ww1 designs. At the very lest I would like to see it lower to the ground, longer with better coverage and wider tracks.

Connor MacLeod
27-03-2012, 16:29
They probably do have different designs for tanks, given their ability to modify the hull in various ways (or the guns, or such.) I wouldn't take either the models or the artwork as definitive since they can run into conflits with the fluff (EG the ammo and calibre issues) Same thing with armour dimensions, bulk of weapons, or the occasional picture of the Tau fighting an enemy at point blank range and in absence of cover (eg looks great but not very practical.)

Mikial
03-04-2012, 02:23
Nice work, Cthell.

Mikial
03-04-2012, 02:30
Having been in a great many tanks when the 105 and 120mm main guns were fired, I can tell you that you really don't even feel it in a modern, well designed and low profile main battle tank. The old Sheridan "tank" was very light (17 tons) and had a much larger gun (I think it was a 150) because although it could fire a main gun round, it was actually designed to fire a laser guided missile. When they fired a regular round out of the gun the first three road wheels actually DID come off the ground. With as tall and ungainly as the LR is, I'm sure it would be a real trip to be in when the gun fires.