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Glenn87
20-03-2012, 12:05
What do you guys think of giving the backpack banner poles to Marine Sergeants and characters?
I remember back in the days when EVERY character and sergeant had them, and even Dreads got them.
Now they seem so out of place...

Kijamon
20-03-2012, 12:14
Personally I hate it. When wars got to a certain point all gentlemanly conduct went out the window and leaders had to blend in.

Nothing says shoot me over the other 9 guys around me like a giant banner sticking out your backpack waving in the wind. Plus how do these guys get in transports?

On the slightly hypocritical side, the space wolf one has a fairly fancy backpack with two wolf heads that I use for my wolf guard and leaders. That's still giving the game away as to who is who.

The_Dark_Raven
20-03-2012, 12:30
That's still giving the game away as to who is who.

When your in the heat of battle you don't exactly have time to pick out people and shoot them down, or fight them in close combat, plus these guys are the best of a bunch or better. If anything by picking them out you make yourself a target and unless you can match them you're going to get put down.

Sure you can shoot at him and pick him out easier, but can you not do the same with a heavy weapons guy? A special weapons guy? etc. There are different roles in every battle, if you spent all our time aiming at the more important combatants you'd lose.

In the novel 'Thousand Sons' a Marine actually scouts around the ranks of his men picking out sisters of silence and killing them and avoiding any other enemies, a tactic that proves effective. However if he hadn't fallen back and scouted around ruins and cover to find and pick them out he would of never had the opportunity in the heat of battle. He would of been cut down looking for them and wasting his time not killing his immediate threats.

Killgore
20-03-2012, 13:26
What do you guys think of giving the backpack banner poles to Marine Sergeants and characters?
I remember back in the days when EVERY character and sergeant had them, and even Dreads got them.
Now they seem so out of place...


Trends come and go with 40K, Goblin Green bases, Red paint jobs, I consider the current Dark Blue and Gold Ultramarine colour scheme to be terribly out of place.

I think the banner poles have always been a matter of taste, I like having a few here and there in my Black Templars, but not every character or 'squad leader' has one in my force.

AlphariusOmegon20
20-03-2012, 16:01
Honestly, I've never used them on any model. I've even gone out of my way to clip off Vulkan's Sallie symbol from his pack.

I always thought they look silly.

MajorWesJanson
20-03-2012, 16:34
I put the banners on my sergeants. It's decorative, and lets me pick out the sergeant quickly from the rest of the squad when playing. I don't usually do it for HQs though, just Sergeants.

Nurgling Chieftain
20-03-2012, 16:39
Banner poles are great for figuring out where your key models are in a large, swirling melee. However, this was more important back in 3rd edition when upgrade characters functioned as separate units in close combat.

Ozendorph
20-03-2012, 18:28
My Angels feature back-banners on every sergeant AND goblin-green bases. Sorry for party rockin.

LonelyPath
20-03-2012, 18:58
I don't mind back banners here and there, like on SC and such, but that's about it. Then again I remember when you could have a Ork army with 40+ back banners scattered about the place to signify not just what was a Nob or Boss, but what rank or them they were also depending on how the banner was painted, etc! Be happy things have calmed down considerably since then ;)

Lord Damocles
20-03-2012, 19:02
All my Marine characters, sergeants, and Dreadnoughts have banner poles.


Banner poles are cool :cool:

superdupermatt
20-03-2012, 19:22
Yeah all my special characters, notable soldiers and sergeants have their back packs with complete designations, purely as I am heading to tournaments and they scored extra points. Plus I love freehanding designs and they're perfect for it.

Sandlemad
20-03-2012, 19:45
For sergeants and characters, I prefer icons mounted on the backpacks. Stuff like the iron halos, relics and aquilas. They don't look as unwieldy and still give the marine a more imposing silhouette.
Dreadnoughts though, all my dreads have standards. They're walking shrines already, so bearing banners makes them even more of a focal point. Also, based on the DOW animations, a banner really seems to fit their lumbering gait.

loveless
20-03-2012, 19:51
For sergeants and characters, I prefer icons mounted on the backpacks. Stuff like the iron halos, relics and aquilas. They don't look as unwieldy and still give the marine a more imposing silhouette.
Dreadnoughts though, all my dreads have standards. They're walking shrines already, so bearing banners makes them even more of a focal point. Also, based on the DOW animations, a banner really seems to fit their lumbering gait.

This is pretty much exactly what I do.

My GK characters (Draigo and Crowe) maintain their banners, as they amuse me and look cool. Other than that, banners are reserved for Dreads.

Glenn87
20-03-2012, 19:55
hmm, I've decided that I won't give anyone a banner pole right now. Maybe I'll decide to grant them that blessing later (to squads wich have done heroic actions).

Sons of Lorgar
20-03-2012, 21:53
In my Word Bearer host I've given backpack icons or banners to my chosen who are also DA/Chaos marine kitbashes. The rest of the host has neither.

S_A_T_S
20-03-2012, 22:48
I don't have banners for a couple of reasons - too many jump packs on my BA to have banners, flimsy plastic poles always snapping off, having to make/paint individual banners. Of course, I haven't bought any marines that have those solid banners (got all my stuff before they introduced them).

I would, however, LOVE to have banners on my marines. It doesn't matter that it makes them stand out - they are *********** space marines! They walk through dark muddy battlefields and cities painted in bright red, blue and gold! These guys don't give a crap. It also lets you play up the knightly aspect of marines with a bit of individual heraldry.

What might be a better option for many would be samurai-style banners, with no crossbar on the pole and the banner coming out behind like a flag. It looks more 'realistic' because we know people did actually go to war equipped with them, and you see them in films. Also less air resistance on those (not that power-armoured marines care all that much about air resistance).

AlphariusOmegon20
20-03-2012, 22:52
I put the banners on my sergeants. It's decorative, and lets me pick out the sergeant quickly from the rest of the squad when playing. I don't usually do it for HQs though, just Sergeants.

I use the unhelmeted heads for that personally.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

blurrymadness
20-03-2012, 23:02
What do you guys think of giving the backpack banner poles to Marine Sergeants and characters?
I remember back in the days when EVERY character and sergeant had them, and even Dreads got them.
Now they seem so out of place...

Awesome IMO. DoW (the video game) showed people with them and they looked great. Maybe not on *every* marine army, but I think they add a nice "finished" touch to them.

Personally I hate it. When wars got to a certain point all gentlemanly conduct went out the window and leaders had to blend in.
Nothing says shoot me over the other 9 guys around me like a giant banner sticking out your backpack waving in the wind. Plus how do these guys get in transports?


Actually; banners were used for a multitude of reasons:
-Nationalism inspires people just as well as religion; Inspiration makes people do dumb/heroic things (same difference)
-Generals; in the days before radio contact; could tell what was going on better if they can figure out who's who. Knowing your heavy infantry are on the right flank and your cavalry aren't there yet (or something) is good to know for a general (who has some means to issue orders still.) Mongols would sit their leader on high ground to over see the battle and use horsemen to dispatch orders.
-Banners were often picked up (for the above reasons) when someone died. Enemy at the Gates would be a good movie portraying the importance of banners a mere 70 years ago

Then again I remember when you could have a Ork army with 40+ back banners scattered about the place to signify not just what was a Nob or Boss, but what rank or them they were also depending on how the banner was painted, etc! Be happy things have calmed down considerably since then ;)
I use something like; 20-30. Certain ones denote Bosspoles (they look the same), most are decorative to help "thematically"; i.e. I have guys with ammo packs who usually also have bannas as a means of sayin "I GOTZ MO AMMO FO YA!"



I'd also note that banners do help screw up LOS; you can't shoot at banners but they legitimately obscure things. If that's not a reason then I don't know what is :P.

Beppo1234
20-03-2012, 23:48
All my Marine characters, sergeants, and Dreadnoughts have banner poles.


Banner poles are cool :cool:

ditto, when painted well, they really finish off a unit nicely. All my HQs and most SCs and sergeants, and squad vets have 'em. Dreads already take up too much room in my carry case, so they don't get.

and to those using the concept of logic, this 40k, there is no logic. Plus, you gotta remember that marines are shock troops... it's why their armour is ridiculously coloured. Being seen is supposed to be more useful than sneaking around.

Cthell
20-03-2012, 23:56
What might be a better option for many would be samurai-style banners, with no crossbar on the pole and the banner coming out behind like a flag. It looks more 'realistic' because we know people did actually go to war equipped with them, and you see them in films. Also less air resistance on those (not that power-armoured marines care all that much about air resistance).

Sorry, Eldar Dire Avenger Exarchs already have dibs on those.

unwanted
21-03-2012, 00:12
I personally use helmet-colours to denote rank on my Imperial Fists, though I used to have banners on my Dark Angels. Guess it suits some Chapters more than others. Also, someone once suggested that the back-banners were mounted on telescopic poles, and would retract and extend when entering or disembarking a transport...

Killgore
21-03-2012, 00:13
All this talk of banners has made me design and pin an interchangable banner for my BT Contemptor and Ironclad dread

Looking forward to doing some freehand involving the Templar cross and some flames :D

Tyranno1
21-03-2012, 00:17
I dont like them. Generally because I would feel if I had a giant stick with cloth on it permanantly stuck to my back for the duration of the battle it would be really uncomfortable.

Also I feel they are terribly small. I always prefer true warhammer-esque standards, able to be held by hand, allows for alot more epic posing like holding it aloft.

qsd
21-03-2012, 02:40
I enjoy seeing well done ones, but I never bother with them because of storage and fragility (and laziness).
Instead I opt for the smaller things like iron halos and aquilas.

omegoku
21-03-2012, 12:52
It used to be that all my Sgts and Officers had banner poles, then I got sick of them and now only the one Dreadnought still retains his back banner. Of course the standard bearer still carries his flag.

I have now gotten sick of unhelmeted heads, so the only guys who won't be wearing them (when I get around to swapping them) will be metal models, which is unfortunately all the HQ choices except Chaplains!

AndrewGPaul
21-03-2012, 14:16
When they first came out, the Eldar Aspet Warriors were shown with every member of the squad flying a back banner (except for Swooping Hawks, obviously). Quite a striking look.

agurus1
21-03-2012, 21:01
For my up-and-coming Iron Warriors, I'm sticking back banners on my bionic enhanced veterans (counts-plauge marines) because I can see them being more about intimidation, and centurion-esq. however not my assault squads (beserkers) since I see them as more down and gritty, caring more about getting in a wrecking some body, the sound of their chain weapons and war chants is all they need! Also thinking about sticking banners on my dread, my HQ's land raider, and having my "count's as" Abaddon followed around by a servitor with a banner as well :P

carlisimo
21-03-2012, 22:35
When wars got to a certain point all gentlemanly conduct went out the window and leaders had to blend in.

Nothing blends in like armor painted in bold, primary colors =].

I suppose flags and other visual cues are easy to justify for the Imperial Guard, who might have spotty vox availability or reliability. Things are bad if your Space Marine need them.

But thatís just fluff. In a game where the figures are just over an inch tall and sergeants can be a lot more killy than line troops, cues for the players make a ton of sense. Nowadays unhelmeted heads are common, but in 2nd edition the banner pole was often the only thing that identified them. (Yes, I said the banner pole, not the banner because it was so often absent. Thatís probably the biggest reason GW stopped using them.)

StratManKudzu
22-03-2012, 01:18
I like my banner poles and am always willing to purchase people's spares. see my signature.

Beppo1234
22-03-2012, 02:04
Nothing blends in like armor painted in bold, primary colors =].

I suppose flags and other visual cues are easy to justify for the Imperial Guard, who might have spotty vox availability or reliability. Things are bad if your Space Marine need them.

But that’s just fluff. In a game where the figures are just over an inch tall and sergeants can be a lot more killy than line troops, cues for the players make a ton of sense. Nowadays unhelmeted heads are common, but in 2nd edition the banner pole was often the only thing that identified them. (Yes, I said the banner pole, not the banner because it was so often absent. That’s probably the biggest reason GW stopped using them.)

that was back in the day of the paper banner, and before the infonet had gotten to the point where you could download and print off whatever you wanted. The new plastic banners are a step up, but a lot of them are kind of meh. I've always felt when an army is all lined up, with all the banners, it looks pretty cool. That's just me.

the thing about no helmets and banners, they are illogical, in reality. But the scale of the game doesn't allow for one to take that into account, so it doesn't matter.

MajorWesJanson
22-03-2012, 03:34
Nothing blends in like armor painted in bold, primary colors =].

I suppose flags and other visual cues are easy to justify for the Imperial Guard, who might have spotty vox availability or reliability. Things are bad if your Space Marine need them.

But thatís just fluff. In a game where the figures are just over an inch tall and sergeants can be a lot more killy than line troops, cues for the players make a ton of sense. Nowadays unhelmeted heads are common, but in 2nd edition the banner pole was often the only thing that identified them. (Yes, I said the banner pole, not the banner because it was so often absent. Thatís probably the biggest reason GW stopped using them.)

The bright colors are because the Marines have more pride in their chapter than they have fear of the enemy. The same goes for banners I would think.

Abaraxas
22-03-2012, 07:19
Im into banner poles, and I paint my bases goblin green...all of my stuff is 2nd/RT era though(nearly all metal too) I guess Im not cool but meh thats what I like

The Convincer
22-03-2012, 13:01
In my Word Bearer host I've given backpack icons or banners to my chosen who are also DA/Chaos marine kitbashes. The rest of the host has neither.

Similarly, my Word Bearers have backpack mounted icons for the icon bearers in each squad - except for one larger hand-held banner, which is the host's icon. An advantage is that the model can still have both arms free for weapons.

I drilled holes in the top of the backpacks & used brass or styrene rod as the banner pole because the banners in the space marine kits are a bit delicate to keep affixed.

I originally used magnets in the backpacks to make them interchangeable in case I wanted to swap a chaos undivided icon with a god-specific icon, but I haven't made-up any god-specific icons yet. Fear of condemnation for heresy has held me back....