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Dada
23-03-2012, 22:52
Ok so mark of nurgle has always been abit confusing when in combat and this matter has been discussed loads, but i havnt still gotten a strait answer. Mark of nurgle reduses your opponents WS by 1 if they attack a model bearing the mark of nurgle. Tha fact clearly says that the -1WS applys when a model with the mark of nurgle is attack by another model and not when a model with mark of nurgle attacks another model.

Heres the facted version:
Page 110 – The Mark of Nurgle
Change the second paragraph to “A model with the Mark of
Nurgle is difficult to target. Ranged attacks that target him are
at -1 To Hit. Models that target him in close combat are at -1
WS.”

It clearly says that "Models that target him in close combat are at -1
WS.” so no confusion there, right?

When you add fear with the mark= unit fails the fear test and is redused to WS1->feared unit attack models with the mark of nurgle -1WS->the feared unit cannot attack(BRB says smth like: if characteristic is zero they can't participate in that phase aka thay cannot attack)

Cant i get some oppinnions and MOSTLY i would appriciate if ppl could tell me how they've played when this scenario has occured and if played in tournaments what have the tournament rules said about this.

dwarfhold13
23-03-2012, 23:15
it seems as if you would always consider "a 6 always hits" kinda thing, since that's what the rest of 8th is like.. I can't see how they would let it reduce to nothing.. but then again......

Iraf
23-03-2012, 23:36
I believe they would be 0, and since the To Hit chart has nothing about 0 against anything they can't hit. You'll still need to hit them though.

This question gives me déjà vu.

AMWOOD co
24-03-2012, 02:31
The normal thing people like to do is say you need a 6 to hit or to put a minimum of 1 on the WS. Personally, both of these are acceptable... but I never use nor play against anyone who uses Nurgle Knights (or Sorcerors, or... anything Nurgle).

Now, let us assume that we aren't using these conventions, what does happen. I used to think it was a paradox (one that you described yourself, Dada), but it isn't. The answer is implied on p4 of the main rulebook. "...they have no ability whatsoever in that skill." Now, it goes on to say later that WS 0 is hit automatically, they can't defend themselves. However, since WS is also used to land hits, and they have no ability to do so, all attacks are simply automatic misses. This avoids the horrid paradox since they are trying to land hits but cannot do so. In like manner, model with A 0 can't attack at all, and a model with S 0 cannot wound anything it hits (though S 0 is dead, also p4).

dwarfhold13
24-03-2012, 05:22
Now, it goes on to say later that WS 0 is hit automatically, they can't defend themselves.

BUT.... it also says that a 1 is ALWAYS a failed attempt. If it were me, I would go with Roll 6's to hit, but all rules that are associated with 6's, like poison and killing blow, go out the window. With a WS of 0 how could you expect something to be batting for the fences when it is freaked out that bad.... Logically though, they would still defend themselves at least a little... If you were scared to death and tried running away but realized the guy was going to swing at you, wouldn't you at least put your weapon up to try to block the blow?

daftpunkevo
24-03-2012, 05:44
The mark on Nurgle effect is adding to the fear effect.
In this case the opponent is WS 0, he cannot attack and all your attacks are automatic hits. (rulebook)
This is exactly the same for Ogre Kingdom's Yeti (i think its yeetees in english). FaQ clearly fix that and say that the -1 ws to oppoenent from frost aura and fear make a unit affected by them 2 : WS 0.
That's why Nurgle cav are the best.
(And Sorry for my bad english)

Warrior of Chaos
24-03-2012, 05:49
This question gives me déjà vu.

Too right. I'm almost afraid the say something for fear of losing IQ in a drawn out discussion.:rolleyes:

Well let us start this again right....I think they would be WS0. The Fear test happens at the start of the phase, attacks come after. So in concept, you'd be reduced to WS1 failing a Fear test, then you would have no WS if you attempted to attack a Nurgle marked model. The question is.....if you have WS0 can you make attacks? I'm inclined to say that if you have WS0 you cannot attack and as pointed out earlier you are automatically hit. And with that thought I am done with this post...and the first person to bring up Parry saves is getting a keyboard across the head. :):shifty:

darheresy
24-03-2012, 06:02
The errata states that an enemy model who attack a model with mark of nurgle are at -1WS. That means that when the nurglemodel attack the enemy model still has WS1 when affected by fear. So the nurgle model will hit on 3+ as normal. When the enemy model attacks the nurglemodel and he is affected by fear he has WS0. On page 50 in the main rulebook under ROLL TO HIT it says that you roll as many dices as you have attacks and consult the to hit chart. It also says that a natural 6 is always a hit. So when the enemy model strikes against the nurglemodel he will hit on a 6.

To sum up, If you have a nurglemodel that causes fear on another model you hit on 3+ and he on 6+.

The rule of WS0 only states that you cant defend yourself and is always hit by enemyattacks, Nothing about how you attack the enemy. So thanks to the errata you still have WS1 even against a nurgle, fearcausing enemy and can still attack even if you have a very low chance of succes.

ElBeaver
24-03-2012, 08:48
Page 110 – The Mark of Nurgle
Change the second paragraph to “A model with the Mark of
Nurgle is difficult to target. Ranged attacks that target him are
at -1 To Hit. Models that target him in close combat are at -1
WS.”


which errata are you refering to? http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m2350036_WarriorsofChaosFAQFeb2009.pdf states that:


Page 110, The Mark of Nurgle, second
paragraph. The text should be changed as
follows:
When rolling to hit against a model with the
Mark of Nurgle, the attacker suffers -1 to its
Ballistic Skill and Weapon Skill, to a
minimum of 1.

ergo, the model does not have WS0 when attacking the marked model(s)

Hell Storm
24-03-2012, 11:34
ElBeaver you have the wrong FAQ. Here is the current one. (http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m1780264a_FAQ_WarriorsofChaos_V1_4.pdf)

Dada
24-03-2012, 12:20
Ok thx for your comments, i think that i can in the fear situation say to my opponent with a good self-esteem say to my opponnent that "yo dawg can't touch it!". So the next question would be how can i get the fear through? I was thinking of putting a palanquin since it causes fear in a warrior unit (finally got a reason to use one :) ) and adding the gift that lowers the oppennents LD by -1 when testing for fear terror and pannic. Any other suggestions???

AMWOOD co
24-03-2012, 23:15
BUT.... it also says that a 1 is ALWAYS a failed attempt. If it were me, I would go with Roll 6's to hit, but all rules that are associated with 6's, like poison and killing blow, go out the window. With a WS of 0 how could you expect something to be batting for the fences when it is freaked out that bad.... Logically though, they would still defend themselves at least a little... If you were scared to death and tried running away but realized the guy was going to swing at you, wouldn't you at least put your weapon up to try to block the blow?

The only things I know with an actual WS of zero when you attack them are buildings and the steam tank. Warmachines used to be included (back when crew were separate models) and uncrewed chariots are arguably so when attacked from flank or rear where the mount is not able to do anything. That's kind of the point, though, the model is incapable of either defending itself or hitting something, thus WS 0.

Actually, there is one other situational case. An Orc or Goblin Great Shaman that has been given the Battle Axe of the Last Waaagh! This weapon gives a D3 WS penalty each round, and so can reduce a WS 2 or 3 shaman to zero. They have all that strength, but can no longer remember how to swing the weapon.

Besides, there are magic items or abilities that hit automatically. Are you implying that they will have to roll to hit and that a 1 will fail?

Edit: I checked the Empire FAQ and see that the Steam Tank is now a chariot with WS 3. Whoops.

The bearded one
24-03-2012, 23:23
On a related note, what if I were to cast speed of light (WS10) and pha's protection (enemies are at -1 to hit the unit) on a unit, and on an enemy unit with WS4 that is fighting my unit were to cast iceshard blizzard (unit has -1 to hit)? That unit would hit on 5's, but with both -1 modifiers from pha's and iceshard they'd hit on 7's. Do 6's simply hit in this case?

AMWOOD co
25-03-2012, 02:37
On a related note, what if I were to cast speed of light (WS10) and pha's protection (enemies are at -1 to hit the unit) on a unit, and on an enemy unit with WS4 that is fighting my unit were to cast iceshard blizzard (unit has -1 to hit)? That unit would hit on 5's, but with both -1 modifiers from pha's and iceshard they'd hit on 7's. Do 6's simply hit in this case?


Sometimes modifiers apply to these rolls, but a natural dice score of 6 always hits and a natural dice score of 1 always misses.

So, yes, a 6 will simply hit.

So, how is this different from what I stated above with automatic hits or misses. Well, it's just that they are automatic, no roll is made. The attack can only hit or miss. This is the same reasoning behind why if Poison works then you can't use Killing Blow. Consequently, anything that is hit automatically is effectively immune to Poison Attacks, as no roll to hit will be made.

dwarfhold13
25-03-2012, 04:47
Are you implying that they will have to roll to hit and that a 1 will fail?

Nah, I would say that if you have to roll the dice, then ones fail, but if no roll, no worry.. I just have never been in a case where there are auto hits going on, so it's very vague to me. I'm so used to seeing rules that always include "to a minimum of 1" that it has never crossed my mind. Silly G-dub for leaving the untied ends!