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AlphariusOmegon20
24-03-2012, 15:53
I'm working on a bit of an experiment for a project and I want to see how people match certain marines against the Various Xenos and Heretics to see which matches make the most sense and are the most Iconic matchups.

The catch is you can not match a race of xenos and heretic choice to more than one Marine choice.

The Marines are:

Grey Knights
Ultramarines
Blood Angels
Dark Angels
Space Wolves
Black Templars

The Xenos and Heretics chocies are:

Orks
Tyranids
Necrons
Dark Eldar
Tau
Eldar
Chaos ( includes Daemons and Marines)

It's not easy, but it can be done. I'll post what I came up with later.

William The Conqueror
24-03-2012, 17:04
Greyknights vs. Necrons (necrons xeno tech is seen as unholy, so would be the grey knights priority)

Dark angels Vs. Tau (Tau want to include everyone in their empire i.e. sharing, while dark angels are all about keeping secrets and not including others. they are opposites and should fight.)

Black Templars Vs. Orks (both travel space looking for fights without a real home, both like charging in and smashing faces, and black templars known for their fight with orcs on armageddon)

That's all I got, though the black templars may also be a good choice to fight the eldar because of their hatred for witches or psychers

Aegius
24-03-2012, 17:57
Grey Knights - Eldar: all Eldar are witches.
Ultramarines - Tau: The Tau empire and Ultramar are right next door to each other.
Blood Angels - Necrons: These 2 have a history together.
Dark Angels - Dark Eldar: for extra 'dark' with your grimdark.
Space Wolves - Orks: Both have a kind of 'feral' feel to them.
Black Templars - 'nids: This was the only one left.

Oppressor
24-03-2012, 19:12
Blood Angels - Orks - Tycho, both rage and charge.

Ultramarines - Tyrannids - battle fo Mccragge, tyrannid veterans.

Space Wolves - Dark eldar - they're both the black sheep.

Dark Angels - Eldar - both plot and scheme and seek to hunt their fallen and redeem themselves.

Grey knights - Tau - numerically small specialty army that's been blown out of proportion versus numerically small specialty army that's been...

Black Templars - Necrons - Hellbrecht losing his arm and the BAs are bros so that rules them out.

Charistoph
24-03-2012, 23:27
Grey Knights > Chaos - duh
Ultramarines > 'Nids - Macragge
Blood Angels > Necrons - Battle of the Fist Bump
Dark Angels > Dark Eldar - secretive orders with histories of betrayal
Space Wolves > Orks - crazed psycho fight lovers
Black Templars > Tau - one of the first responders

Carnage
24-03-2012, 23:59
Grey Knights > Chaos - duh
Ultramarines > 'Nids - Macragge
Blood Angels > Necrons - Battle of the Fist Bump
Dark Angels > Dark Eldar - secretive orders with histories of betrayal
Space Wolves > Orks - crazed psycho fight lovers
Black Templars > Tau - one of the first responders

This is the best I've seen so far.

WTF guys, who isn't matching Grey Knights against Chaos? I mean you can debate some of the list but DEMON HUNTERS vs CHAOS is written right into the army's name.

lantzkev
25-03-2012, 00:41
yeah I was a bit suprised too lol, I think they are over thinking it on grey knights.

Happicus
25-03-2012, 00:50
Grey Knights - Chaos (I consider this a gimme)
Ultramarines - Tyranids (tyranic war veterans)
Dark Angels - Tau (I could see the fallen hiding out in tau communes)
Blood Angels - Dark Eldar (The battle of I am more EMO than you)
Space Wolves - Necrons (Space vikings vs Space robots)
Black Templar - Orks (thousand of crusading knights + millions of rampaging monstors = awesome)

Oppressor
25-03-2012, 01:19
This is the best I've seen so far.

WTF guys, who isn't matching Grey Knights against Chaos? I mean you can debate some of the list but DEMON HUNTERS vs CHAOS is written right into the army's name.

Sure wish chaos was an option when I posted in this thread to begin with... check out the edit note in the OP?


@ the OP:
We're also missing a 7th SM chapter now to make them even again since you decided to add in another xenos and heretic choice (chaos).

William The Conqueror
25-03-2012, 02:23
It's because he didn't have Chaos included in the list earlier, he must have edited it.

AlphariusOmegon20
25-03-2012, 05:46
Sure wish chaos was an option when I posted in this thread to begin with... check out the edit note in the OP?


@ the OP:
We're also missing a 7th SM chapter now to make them even again since you decided to add in another xenos and heretic choice (chaos).


It's because he didn't have Chaos included in the list earlier, he must have edited it.

Yeah, that was my bad. I had thought I had added it originally and realized later I hadn't.

Actually, that's where the experiment is supposed to come in. There's supposed to be a mismatch the amount of choices. There is an odd man out.

The poster is supposed to try and figure out which one it is.

Charistoph
25-03-2012, 06:52
Trying to figure the odd one out is interesting, and difficult. Orks are one option, because they are a threat to everyone and are everywhere. Tyranids are a threat to everyone, though are not directly attacking at every quarter of the galaxy like the Orks are, yet.

Eldar and Tau are more sideline concerns with the Tau having tangled with the Black Templar and Ultramarine successor chapters most often, with some obvious interactions with the Puppies. Eldar are also all over, but are not usually iconic with any chapter but the Mentors, as far as I can remember.

I can't recall what chapters are in the Dark Eldar fluff, so I'm at a loss there. Necrons are infamous for the whole anti-Tyranid Fist Bump with the Blood Angels. But there are other connections all over.

Gorbad Ironclaw
25-03-2012, 07:42
I don't really think it works like that. As I see it you got:
Grey Knights, Space Wolves and Dark Angels against Chaos (Demons, Thousand Sons and Fallen respectively)
Blood Angels against Orks (Tycho, Armageddon)
Ultramarines against Tyranids (see Tyranic War)

And that's about it for iconic clashes. The Eldar have never really be adversarial in that sense, if you want an iconic clash with them you are again looking at Chaos (Slaanesh). And the Black Templars, Tau, Necrons and Dark Eldar are just too new (to me anyway) to have an iconic one on one struggle going on in 40k.

cornonthecob
25-03-2012, 07:46
Ultramarines versus tyranids

Kijamon
25-03-2012, 08:34
Space Wolves v Dark Angels
Eldar v Dark Eldar
Grey Knights v Chaos
Ultramarines v Tyranids
Blood Angels v Orks


And Black Templars v Tau, I imagine the black templars to want to bring the emperor's word to space communists.

Eldoriath
25-03-2012, 10:28
Just basing of fluff and other stuff I'd say:

Grey Knights - Chaos
Ultramarines - Tyranids
Blood Angels - Orks
Dark Angels - Necrons
Space Wolves - Tau
Black Templars - Eldar

Denny
25-03-2012, 12:20
Due to the nature of the Heresy, the most iconic match-ups for most first founding chapters will almost always be chaos legions/daemons. There is no greater enemy than a betrayer who was once your friend.

Equally, listing any of the Marine chapters you mentioned as the 'Iconic' enemies of the Orks seems a little unfair on the Crimson Fists, and the most iconic opponent for Eldar of any flavour is She Who Thirsts (she ate 90% of their empire and devours their souls; nothing that can be done to them will ever come close to that).

You can, of course, come up with more tenuous links (4th Edition featured Black Templers and Dark Eldar, Ultramarines have blue armour and Tau blue skin) but they're not satisfying . . .

IMO:

The Grey Knights (not first founding but hey . . .) are created to fight chaos; there is no more iconic opponent for them to face.

The Space Wolves hate the Thousand Sons (look whose mangled remains grace the most recent Wolves kit; can't get a much bigger hint than that).

The Dark Angels hunt The Fallen (they might not find them much but they are still their iconic opponent; finding The Fallen takes priory over everything else and Dark Angels will break off any other engagement for the opportunity to find a member of The Fallen).

The Blood Angels biggest enemy is, of course, The Thirst, but there is some evidence to suggest this flaw is tied either to the bloodthirster Ka'Bandha or to Horus (and therefore the Black Legion). Overall I'd go for the servants of the Blood God as the most symbolic opponent for the Angels.

The Ultramarines are perhaps the exception; though they are hated by both the Word Bearers and the Alpha Legion they actually came out of the Heresy relatively unscathed, so I might slip Tyranids in here.

The Black Templars are a recent development (in terms of when their book was written) so have yet to be given a really iconic opponent. I suppose Necrons cost Helbrech his arm . . . but I feel like I'm stretching here . . . hell, I'll go with the Cythor Fiends seeing as how they are now running the chapter. :shifty:

Of course, you could always post what you came up with and prove me wrong. :angel:

Vampiric16
25-03-2012, 12:36
I think every chapter can find an opposite or two within chaos (Grey Knights vs Daemons, Ultras vs Word Bearers/Alpha Legion, Imperial fists vs Iron Warriors, Wolves vs Thousand sons etc).
Then certain chapters find particular enmity with certain xenos races based on previous conflicts and such (Ultras vs Tyranids, Blood Angels vs Orks)

Tarrisvaal
25-03-2012, 13:13
If you are going off fluff alone the best match ups would be;

Blood Angels vs Orks (Armageddon, cpt Tycho)
Grey Knights vs Chaos (kind of a given really)
Black Templars vs Necrons (recent fluff but Helbrecht lost a major war to Imotekh who then took his hand off in a recent White dwarf)
Ultramarines vs Tyranids (battle of Maccrage)

After that it gets hazy but Space wolves vs Dark Eldar are shown in some of the artwork in the DE codex
That would leave Dark Angels vs Tau, which doesnt work as 'iconic' exactly but there arent any better match ups I can think of from the given list.

DE vs Tau and Dark Angels vs Space wolves would work better (given the DE, SW and DA codex fluff) but assuming you cant do that for this experiment...

If you could have multiple match ups SW vs Chaos (Thousand sons) and DA vs Orks (Piscina) would be better. Alas...

trigger
25-03-2012, 13:27
GK vrs chaos
Ultramarines vrs nids
BA vrs orks
Black Templars vrs necrons (proper history)
DA vrs eldar
Space wolves vrs tau

But if we go for iconic battles/grudges
BA/SW vrs chaos (talon of Horus and armageddon 1)
Templars vrs necrons (sanctuary 101)
DA vrs orks
GK vrs Deamons or SoB :)
Ultramarines vrs nids

AlphariusOmegon20
25-03-2012, 15:28
I'll give you a hint to the answers of a few: look at the chapter's timeline in their codex. It won't work for DA or BT though.

I'll post what I came up with tomorrow morning. The answers will prolly surprise you.

AlphariusOmegon20
26-03-2012, 14:00
The answers I came up with were:

Tyranids are the odd man out.


GK vs. Chaos ( yes this one was a "duh")
Ultramarines vs. Tau (Surprisingly, Tau are mentioned just as many times as Tyranids in the C:SM codex timeline)
Blood Angels vs. Eldar ( Eldar had one of the highest number of mentions in the BA codex timeline)
Space Wolves vs. Dark Eldar (between the SW codex timeline and the DE one, SW/DE are mentioned 4 times)
Dark Angels vs. Orks ( Between Armageddon, Piscina, and others, this is a "duh" also)
Black Templars vs. Necrons ( this was a "duh" too)

Denny
26-03-2012, 15:51
The trouble is the quantity of match-ups does not constitute an ‘Iconic’ matchup.

The Fallen are the most hated foes of the Dark Angels. They are their Iconic opponents by definition. They are also rare, epic encounters.

The Orks are classic punching bags to be pulled out whenever a timeline requires an quick victory.

To put it another way if I used your method (number of appearances) to determine Spider-man's 'Iconic' enemy it would not be The Green Goblin or Doctor Octopus or Venom, it would be a group of random thugs robbing a bank . . .

S_A_T_S
26-03-2012, 20:55
I was going to post a list but I think the only real 'iconic' enemies/xenos are orks and chaos. The others are somewhere inbetween - Tau and eldar are pretty much good guys, so fighting against other good guys (marines) feels a little odd. Necrons I see as being Eldar nemesis, but Dark Eldar feel like IG/PDF nemesis, as their fluff says they raid real space for slaves, so they are mostly going to be hitting not so well defended human worlds, whose only defenders are going to be said IG/PDF troops.

The only obvious one I can see would be Ultramarines & Tyranids. No one else has such an epic war or solid link with the 'nids as the smurfs. They even had specialist squads to fight 'nids! Who else has individual squads designed to defeats a specific enemy (don't mention GK, they should not be a full army, only aliied bolt-ons to other Imperial forces)?