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BirchbarktheAncient
25-03-2012, 13:20
This post is for my fellow rats out there. How many of you use gutter runners in your armies? Do you scout them or do you use sneaky infiltrators like I do? What unit sizes do you use and how effective have they been in your games? I use three units of 15 with poison and slings. Deathrunners in all three units of course. I ALWAYS use sneaky infiltrators which is why I asked how you guys use them.

Echunia
25-03-2012, 18:49
I actually always scout them, unless you can't fit them. Why do you infiltrate? I use 1 or 2 units of 10 with slings and poison and no deathrunners. What's your reasoning for deathrunners? Also I don't use more because if I do, people won't play me ;-)

Metacarpi
26-03-2012, 09:56
I use a single unit of 7 for Warmachine hunting/general distraction behind enemy lines. I always deploy as scouts, and buy them no upgrades whatsoever. I'd rather use the points for poison/slings to shore up numbers elsewhere.

slave01
04-04-2012, 02:58
I use them as sneaky infiltrators with amazing effectiveness. Most of my opponents freak out when they show up on turn 2 right behind their lines and make sure you have the poisoned attacks they're worth every point. I run two units of ten and the run havoc on the battle field.

russellmoo
04-04-2012, 04:29
When I use them I tend to run a unit of 7-8 with poison slings, and depending on the terrain or opponent I will either scout them, or try and show up turn 2- I think they are a little pricey as re-directors and therefore my decision is based on which will get me faster access to killing warmachines- i.e. can I run up and shoot at the warmachines, or do I need to come from behind-

Spinocus
04-04-2012, 16:59
THREE units of 15? Wow, that's a crap ton of points. What size games do you typically play?

Most of my games are in the 2K - 2.25K range so I typically use two units of 7+ Gutter Runners, three units if I'm fighting really shooty lists, especially those loaded with war machines.

Since I rarely get a good position for scouting and I hate losing my GRs to enemy fire before they get to shoot I almost always opt to use the Sneaky Infiltrator rule. Two units of GR means it's very likely one of them will show up on Turn 2.

I'm rarely ever on the defensive when fighting Empire, Dwarfs, HE or WE so by the time all my GR units show up my infantry blocks are about to charge. As Slavel01 mentioned this can make for some very harrowing situations for your opponent who must then decide how to best use his war machines & missile troops before the battle lines meet. If he wastes shots on the GRs then your blocks will have more ranks to grind him down in combat as they'll be Steadfast for longer. This also gives your weapons teams more time to either move into position so they can shoot into combat (Warpfire Throwers) or simply send more rounds down range (Poisoned Wind Mortars) while your blocks are out of range of all but the worst template scatters. On the other hand if your opponent wastes shots on your blocks then his war machines are almost certainly doomed when your GRs unleash another volley of multiple poisoned sling shots or decide to charge in and slice up the crews.

spriten
04-04-2012, 22:35
2*7 at 2000, 3*5 at 2500-3000, with slings and poison

How I use them depend on my opponents army and tactics. I usually deploy with sneaky infiltrators. Though when I'm expecting scouts or a lot of warmachine hunters, I often use a unit or two to counter this.

BirchbarktheAncient
06-04-2012, 12:50
I use 3 units of 15 with slings and poison in 2K. Most people think I'm crazy to sink the 836 points (if I recall correctly) into those units, but they jaw drop when they unleash absolute devastation on my opponents back line. If all three or even two come up in turn 2, the damage they can do causes a great deal of frustration. Do I feel bad, heck no! Most warmachine using armies delightfully spend their shooting phase wreaking havoc on people. However, when you bust out the stormbanner in their turn, only to drop the gutter runners behind their precious warmahines in turn two, the river of tears can be amusing. So, when people scoff at gutter runners, one game usually turns them into believers.

lovedinplaster
06-04-2012, 17:28
^^ that's absurd! 45 units of anything could wreck havoc. I use one unit of ten. I often hide an assassin with magic resistance in this unit. Mostly scouted unless the enemy is warmachine heavy

BirchbarktheAncient
12-04-2012, 00:00
^^ that's absurd! 45 units of anything could wreck havoc. I use one unit of ten. I often hide an assassin with magic resistance in this unit. Mostly scouted unless the enemy is warmachine heavy

Did you actually accuse a skaven player of being absurd!?! LOL, of COURSE it's absurd! Rats have no souls and neither do I!

lovedinplaster
12-04-2012, 01:34
Speaking of rats. I would make a good warlord IRL. today at work I had to sift through a few hundred bags of ear corn. I killed about 50 mice and threw about 30 nests containig babies in the garbage.. Should have used them for twisted moulded experiments though..

BirchbarktheAncient
12-04-2012, 21:35
Speaking of rats. I would make a good warlord IRL. today at work I had to sift through a few hundred bags of ear corn. I killed about 50 mice and threw about 30 nests containig babies in the garbage.. Should have used them for twisted moulded experiments though..

You killed baby skaven?!?! There may have been grey seers in there! Stormvermin! CURSE YOU!!!! What am I saying? WHO CARES!

woodster17
12-04-2012, 21:47
This thread went from tactics to rambling Skaven nonsense very quickly. I love it :) Skaven are hilarious.

karse88
13-04-2012, 11:34
I use 3 units of 15 with slings and poison in 2K.

what if you cant deploy them in 2 rows because of terrain? skirmishers still only fire in 2 ranks, right? - i think its a bit over the top :b.. 3 unit of 10 sounds appealing though :b
my friend usually has a sorceror in a unit of 10-15 archers - i should consider infiltrate him with 10-15 gutterunners + assassin ... sounds effective!

karse88
13-04-2012, 11:51
I use 3 units of 15 with slings and poison in 2K.

what if you cant deploy them in 2 rows because of terrain? skirmishers still only fire in 2 ranks, right? - i think its a bit over the top :b.. 3 unit of 10 sounds appealing though :b
my friend usually has a sorceror in a unit of 10-15 archers - i should consider infiltrate him with 10-15 gutterunners + assassin ... sounds effective!

lovedinplaster
13-04-2012, 19:51
It is verh effective. But gutter runners are very weak to any magic. I do suggest the magic resistance(2) item kn your assassi N

BlackPawl
14-04-2012, 09:45
I don't get to battle without at least one unit of gutter runners. Every time I go out and take something differnt I miss them on the battlefield because I have one very tactical unit less. Even if they don't kill anything they will take some units away to hunt them.

karse88
14-04-2012, 09:56
when the assasin has the magic resistance, i need to reveal that i have him in the group when they want to use it.. but thats ofcourse better then the rats dying :) - my friend just never tried to play against an assassin, would be fun to pop one out of nowhere :)

Zinch
14-04-2012, 14:15
Remember that you can't reveal it any time you want. You must do it either at the begining of your turn or at the begining of any close combat phase...

karse88
14-04-2012, 23:37
huh? so the unit doesn't get magic resistance unless i have, before the magic is thrown on them, revealed that there is an assassin in the unit ? :S

lovedinplaster
15-04-2012, 12:42
I'm not sure you have to reveal your assassin to get the magic resistance on the group. As any character with magic resistance joins a unit. They automatically receive the bonus

BlackPawl
15-04-2012, 17:36
I'm not sure you have to reveal your assassin to get the magic resistance on the group. As any character with magic resistance joins a unit. They automatically receive the bonus

Would be good but it isn't.
It's in the rules for assassins that they do not count for anything so long as they are not revealed. They are not as every character which has joined a unit because they are not really there.

Would it be so than this would be the case:
Enemy: Cast a spell (fireball etc.) at the unit.
Skaven: did not dispell it. "No problem, I will use my MR 3 to stop some wounds"
Enemy: Where did it come from, there is no character in this unit and it has no special rule for it?
Skaven: Mmmmmmmmmmmmmhhhhhhhh ???

russellmoo
15-04-2012, 17:59
What are they casting on your gutter runners that doesn't need LOS-if the spells do need LOS then the question is- Why are your gutter runners in the arc of fire of the caster- I admit that sometimes this is impossible, but that's why you have your GR's show up from behind on later turns-

Adding in an assassin, plus MR makes for a very (ridiculously for Skaven) expensive unit- MR 2 plus assassin plus 15 GR's= 400 yikes!!! that's 200 slaves.

BlackPawl
15-04-2012, 18:16
What are they casting on your gutter runners that doesn't need LOS-if the spells do need LOS then the question is- Why are your gutter runners in the arc of fire of the caster- I admit that sometimes this is impossible, but that's why you have your GR's show up from behind on later turns-

Adding in an assassin, plus MR makes for a very (ridiculously for Skaven) expensive unit- MR 2 plus assassin plus 15 GR's= 400 yikes!!! that's 200 slaves.


Some mages are very mobile: Tzeentch Mage on Disc, some lone Lev. Fire wizard on foot etc. - or another GS on bell will have 360 LOS, so there is ever a chance that a mage will cast something on the GR.

And yes, a unit with an assassin is very expensive. And because an assassin with some gear will be more than 150 points, so most will not include him ...

mbh1127
15-04-2012, 22:39
Anyone have a good use for the assassin? I have been running a dozen gutter runners with a naked assassin to mess with small enemy units. Not great.

The assassin just doesn't kill much for the points.

Scarr, Invisible One
16-04-2012, 01:23
I tend to use 2 units of Gutter Runners with 5 or 9-10 in each unit. They work great all-round and they never let me down.

Good builds for Assassins are Potion of Strength + Weeping Blade, Blade of Corruption + Other Trickster's Shard or just Warpstone Stars. Works great for killing Characters or being a nuisance on his own. Remember that he can't kill the most tankish Character's if he isn't lucky.

karse88
16-04-2012, 11:26
the caster can ever use magic on the GR? :S .. he just turns and shoots?.. what the problem in that ? :) .. i think i will use the assassin, im just not sure he is worth it... my friend ever keeps a unit of 10-15 archers behind with a caster... with my GR goes on the table they can only shoot, taking that its my turn 2, he can have moved more than 12 away and be out of range or long range, having moved (returning on the table) and multiple shots, that leaves me 30 shots that hits on 6... thats not enough to kill his unit :/

mbh1127
16-04-2012, 18:01
I tend to use 2 units of Gutter Runners with 5 or 9-10 in each unit. They work great all-round and they never let me down.

Good builds for Assassins are Potion of Strength + Weeping Blade, Blade of Corruption + Other Trickster's Shard or just Warpstone Stars. Works great for killing Characters or being a nuisance on his own. Remember that he can't kill the most tankish Character's if he isn't lucky.


Can the assassin use the PoS at the start of my own turn if he is hidden?

I'm not sure I love warpstone stars due to the -1 for multiple shots and the horrible range.

Zinch
16-04-2012, 18:59
Can the assassin use the PoS at the start of my own turn if he is hidden?

I'm not sure I love warpstone stars due to the -1 for multiple shots and the horrible range.

At the begining of your turn that is not an issue, because you can reveal your assassin an then drink the potion.

The problem with the potion is that you can't use it on your opponent turn...

Jumbo
17-04-2012, 09:34
Almost always 2 units of 9+ gutter runners. In games where the enemy has war machines or weak shooty units I use sneaky infiltration on both units. Versus more aggressive armies I usually scout infiltrate one unit and one unit (unless 1st turn is important and I would otherwise finish deploying first).
Having at least one gutter runner unit in infiltrate is really handy as the opponent cannot risk hiding weak units (such as single characters, wizard bunkers, eagles, hapies and so on) near the board edge.
It is also usually hard to find good places to scout more than a single gutter runner unit.

karse88
20-04-2012, 09:07
damn, suuuper dissapointed, 10 archers shot at my gutterunners, killed 4 out of 14, panic and they ran... caused panic into a unit of 10 gutterrunners who ran..... - great -.- they really need to be kept out of fire for them to work :/

Zinch
20-04-2012, 09:15
damn, suuuper dissapointed, 10 archers shot at my gutterunners, killed 4 out of 14, panic and they ran... caused panic into a unit of 10 gutterrunners who ran..... - great -.- they really need to be kept out of fire for them to work :/

wow... that was very unlucky... 10 archers killing 4 is realy far from the average result and failing 2 panic tests at Ld7 isn't either the norm...

karse88
20-04-2012, 10:28
the archers got minus 1? .. hit on what? 4+ wound on 4+? he is ever lucky :)

Zinch
20-04-2012, 12:59
You SHOULDN'T be on the front arc of an archer unit, so usualy is (at least) 5+ to hit, 4+ to wound and 6++ ward save, so 10 archers should kill 1,3889 gutterrunners on average...

Spinocus
20-04-2012, 14:41
Well all Skaven players know that s--t happens... and often in spectacular fashion at times when you least expect it! This is why I never deploy my GRs as scouts if an enemy missile unit or war machine can get a clean shot at them. Archers are always dangerous because they can move & shoot, particularly those of the pointy eared freak variety with their uber-shooty, high BS skillz.

karse88
21-04-2012, 10:09
they were build up in a 2 lvl building... and i had to deploy there - i was hunting his character in another archer unit! :b - i played it out as i should, chances was very slim IMO, i just didnt realize how "easy" they could break