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Baron_Nikos_
10-04-2012, 15:59
I used to take pigeon bombs with the previous book, because I thought they were funny but also because when they worked they could do some good damage.

I just picked up the new book after my ADVANCED order with EXPRESS (4 extra) postage arrived 3 days AFTER everyone else got it...

Am I mistaken in thinking that pigeon bombs used to require LoS as they fired as a missile weapon but now it makes no reference to needing LoS simply saying " nominate any enemy model within 24'' "

Could this be considered a boost for pigeon bombs? The no more unlimited range does suck but I'd rather be able to hide my engineer behind a unit and still be able to fire the pigeon bombs!

Nikos

Grimdesign
10-04-2012, 16:17
I just picked up the new book after my ADVANCED order with EXPRESS (4 extra) postage arrived 3 days AFTER everyone else got it...



They still haven't shipped my advanced order yet. I am beginning to wonder why I even bother at this point.

Damien 1427
10-04-2012, 16:30
I just picked up the new book after my ADVANCED order with EXPRESS (4 extra) postage arrived 3 days AFTER everyone else got it...

I got the free postage and it arrived today too. It's a combination of their almost unhealthy obsession with secrecy, and in this case, the Easter bank holiday weekend.

In regards to Pigeon Bombs, to quote the old book "Nominate any enemy model visible to the Master Engineer,". So, yes, you needed LoS. We've traded unlimited range for being able to fire it blind.

Petey
10-04-2012, 17:37
Yeah, they don't need line of sight, just pick a target and go.

ihavetoomuchminis
10-04-2012, 21:15
And they are armour piercing now. They weren't before :)

LaughinGremlin
10-04-2012, 21:27
I pre-ordered with free postage, and it's Tuesday evening. I still don't have my book. I could have bought it at a store on Saturday, along with the Blue Lightning Wagon. So bummed. I am happy to hear about the pigeon bombs though, and happy to hear about anything from the book that I still await. I assume that an engineer still can't let loose a pigeon AND re-roll dice on a hellblaster in the same shooting phase. I can't multi-task to save my life, but jeesh! ;)

Baron_Nikos_
11-04-2012, 21:17
I does say that he can fire pigeon bombs instead of a missile weapon and it says you can use his re roll in stead of firing his missile weapon. So if that makes pigeon bombs not a missile weapon I would argue you can fire them and use a re roll :p

Unless I've read it wrong? Either way I'm sure it was intended that you can't

Jind_Singh
11-04-2012, 21:25
No, the pigeon bomb replaces the missile weapon, hence it can fired INSTEAD of a missile weapon - so he wouldn't be able to do the pigon AND the machine in the in the same phase

Wesser
11-04-2012, 22:08
I usually took them too. If I rolled no misfires for a turn they really were a nice change from my usual long rifle.

Now that engineers are nothing more than Helblaster upgrades its not worth giving him gear anymore

The bearded one
11-04-2012, 22:44
On the other hand the cost is very low, and 1 hit can earn back the costs very easily. If the engineer's warmachine buddy blew itself up, is destroyed, has no viable targets or isn't important anymore, he's got an alternative thing to do.

LaughinGremlin
12-04-2012, 00:33
Thank you all for all the information. Another day has gone and STILL no book. Now I'm worrying. I think that a mounted engineer with pigeon bombs as his only weapon would be fun(ny). Constantly hiding from the enemy, and launching birds with impunity from a forest or other cover, until he blows himself up, that is.

Mike45
12-04-2012, 02:03
I find it retarded that a bomb that a pigeon can carry can do more damage then a mortar now.

Sophet Drahas
12-04-2012, 04:53
For what it's worth it took about two weeks for my Vampire Counts order to arrive at the GW store I had it shipped to. Last time I will ever advance order anything that's not a limited release.

Sophet Drahas
12-04-2012, 04:54
I find it retarded that a bomb that a pigeon can carry can do more damage then a mortar now.

Depends on whether it's an African or European pigeon.

Jind_Singh
12-04-2012, 05:11
Pigeons are referred to as flying rats - in terms of being flying vermin and being carriers of nasty stuff.

So if Skaven, which are also Rodents, hit harder than most armies I have NO issues with flying rats hitting harder than warmachines either!

Harry
12-04-2012, 05:34
Depends on whether it's an African or European pigeon.
Not sure why ... this made me laugh a lot. :D

stainawarjar
12-04-2012, 07:22
And they are armour piercing now. They weren't before :)

Note that if the bomb misfires and hits the Engineer it is NOT armour piercing. Maybe he has special pigeon-repellant armour.

Bannik
12-04-2012, 09:25
I find it retarded that a bomb that a pigeon can carry can do more damage then a mortar now.

Depends on what bomb the pigeon is carrying and what load the mortar is using, if the pigeon has some C4 (or fantasy version) than yes I can see it doing more damage, also the mortar is less likely to hit the target most mortars use area of effect to do the damage (most mortars don't hit a target dead on) but a pigeon simply flies into his enemies, usually a direct hit even...

Echunia
12-04-2012, 09:46
Depends on whether it's an African or European pigeon.

Loving the Monty Python references : D. This very line surely came up when the engineers were constructing the pigeon bombs.

Damien 1427
12-04-2012, 09:58
Note that if the bomb misfires and hits the Engineer it is NOT armour piercing. Maybe he has special pigeon-repellant armour.

They've long-since learned to get out of the way.

Also, the important thing to note is that the pigeon just drops a bomb. They don't explode. The pigeon is fine, at least until the Engineer gets hungry.

Bannik
12-04-2012, 12:28
They've long-since learned to get out of the way.

Also, the important thing to note is that the pigeon just drops a bomb. They don't explode. The pigeon is fine, at least until the Engineer gets hungry.

Awww that sucks

I always imagined them being kamikaze pigeons

ArtificerArmour
12-04-2012, 13:20
Pretty sure the pigeon has no idea hes got a bomb strapped to his chest until he lands!

Bannik
12-04-2012, 18:23
Pretty sure the pigeon has no idea hes got a bomb strapped to his chest until he lands!


This is how I imagine them, but more fantasy and maybe a mustache

137886

Tuttivillus
12-04-2012, 21:16
Actually why bother with mortars? Just take two engineers with pidgeons : chance of hitting roughly the same and You need two "misfires" to blow engineer to pieces, higher S with armour piercing, smaller template - yes, but lower price. Just remember to stand them next to cannons so they could get a 4++ :D

BigRob
12-04-2012, 22:41
Pretty sure the pigeon has no idea hes got a bomb strapped to his chest until he lands!

The pigeon has a metal loop attacked to its legs and the bomb is tied on with fuse. The fuse is cut by the engineer at launch to the "guesstimate range", lit and then the pigeon flies away. The fuse burns through (hopefully) above the target and the bomb falls with the fuse still burning, lands on the target just as the fuse finally burns down and the bomb goes boom.

There was a diagram and everything, in one of the old White Dwarf articles.

LaughinGremlin
12-04-2012, 23:31
For what it's worth it took about two weeks for my Vampire Counts order to arrive at the GW store I had it shipped to. Last time I will ever advance order anything that's not a limited release.

Thanks. That makes me feel better, and it wasn't til today that I checked the GW site to learn that free shipping can take 1 to NINE days! That's a big range of time. I don't thing I'll ever pre-order again either.
I'm stoked about the angry birds being better in many ways than the mortar because it's finally some GOOD news about Empire. The engineer takes up less space than a mortar and can move too! It's a beautiful day!

decker_cky
13-04-2012, 00:18
Thanks. That makes me feel better, and it wasn't til today that I checked the GW site to learn that free shipping can take 1 to NINE days! That's a big range of time. I don't thing I'll ever pre-order again either.
I'm stoked about the angry birds being better in many ways than the mortar because it's finally some GOOD news about Empire. The engineer takes up less space than a mortar and can move too! It's a beautiful day!

Also lets you have the option of using him to protect/make your cannon more accurate on a particularly important shot.

Jerry
13-04-2012, 02:45
Ermmm I'm beginning to think the master engineer can use his pigeon bomb because the wording is so erratic. Master of Ballistics : "A master engineer cannot use this special rule and shoot with his own missile weapon in the same shooting phase" - "You must nominate which war machine, if any, will be using this rule each shooting phase before any war machines within 3" of the master engineer are fired".
For the pigeon bomb: "A master engineer with pigeon bombs can use them instead of firing a weapon in the shooting phase".

If you play the rules as written and if you want to rule lawyer you can: Fire the pigeon bomb because it is not stated as a missile weapon and it is used instead of firing a weapon which isn't necessarily a missile weapon. The master of ballistics rule says it can be used if the ME didn't fire a missile weapon and a missile weapon does not equal firing a weapon so the rules do not collide.

Of course to do this would be pretty scummy and I suggest you were facial protection if you plan on doing it.

Lord Solar Plexus
13-04-2012, 04:36
One can only fire a missile weapon, not a sword or polearm. That's just GW shorthand.

I also don't see why PB's would need no LoS unless it clearly and explicitly says so.

Jerry
13-04-2012, 05:44
One can only fire a missile weapon, not a sword or polearm. That's just GW shorthand.


Yeh that's probably what they intended but it's not specific so a rules lawyer could easily get around it.

Athlan na Dyr
13-04-2012, 06:43
Yeh that's probably what they intended but it's not specific so a rules lawyer could easily get around it.

A rules lawyer could also be politely told to find another opponent. Or that you can only give up the firing of a missile weapon once.
Must admit I do like the idea of a 'pigeoneer'. Must be that damn engineering degree I'm doing....:shifty:



I also don't see why PB's would need no LoS unless it clearly and explicitly says so.

Agreed. Permissive Ruleset and all that. Follow the normal rules unless told otherwise.

Jerry
13-04-2012, 06:48
;6176813 Or that you can only give up the firing of a missile weapon once.
.
You don't actually give up firing a missile weapon to use the pigeon bomb it says "instead of firing a weapon" so yeh I'm not condoning it but to do it would technically be within the rules... Although I agree it's probably as dirty as skirmish traps.

ihavetoomuchminis
13-04-2012, 07:40
A rules lawyer could also be politely told to find another opponent. Or that you can only give up the firing of a missile weapon once.
Must admit I do like the idea of a 'pigeoneer'. Must be that damn engineering degree I'm doing....:shifty:



Agreed. Permissive Ruleset and all that. Follow the normal rules unless told otherwise.

Yes, i agree. And if you are deploying the engineer close to a WM, him alone, is not that hard to encarate him to his target.

Von Wibble
13-04-2012, 10:21
They've long-since learned to get out of the way.

Also, the important thing to note is that the pigeon just drops a bomb. They don't explode. The pigeon is fine, at least until the Engineer gets hungry.

Unless you get a result where the pigeon explodes in midair.

"NOOOOOOOOOO!!! Not my Speckled Jim!!!

ihavetoomuchminis
13-04-2012, 10:51
Unless you get a result where the pigeon explodes in midair.

"NOOOOOOOOOO!!! Not my Speckled Jim!!!

I like when someone makes a joke....and i'm know what he's talking about.....Blackadder goes forth!!!