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drbored
17-04-2012, 05:02
I got a rare opportunity to ply a wealth of information for some knowledge and insight about what's coming up next/soon.

Here's the rundown...

Dark Angels (May/June)
6th Edition (July/August)
-Starter Box featuring Dark Angels vs. Eldar
Eldar (Oct/Nov Xenos slot)

And somewhere in that mix is going to be a splash release of fliers that *should* include the Harpy, Voidraven Bomber, Doom/Night Scythe, and possibly more. When I mentioned 'Autumn of Fliers' I got a derisive snort, so we may see it sooner, we may see it later.

This confirms two things:
1. It's not going to be Dark Angels and Chaos for the Starter Box. GW is NOT going to put two power armor armies in the same box. Power armor is their bread and butter, and to put two power armor armies in one starter box doesn't follow any trends, going back to the Rogue Trader days. It *may* be Dark Angels vs. Tau, but my source suggested Eldar strongly for several reasons.
-A. Eldar is a girl-getter. It's the one army that attracts more girls to the game than any other.
-B. Eldar is currently the worst selling army.
-C. Eldar has a massive loyal fanbase.
Eldar are the logical step, and now they're the rumored next step in this coming Xenos season.

2. Chaos is not going to be coming out this year, but may be slotted for early 2013. This is good and bad... bad because we don't get Chaos sooner. Good because it means Chaos will be a true 6th edition army, and not a 'made for' 6th edition army. This will put more time between the release of the rules and the finessing of the Codices, which means a better 6th edition Codex for Chaos. We could, of course, get a surprise, where they slam in a new Codex into the year, but that doesn't trend either. My source suggested, however, that we may see a lot of 'splash' releases packed in, with the aforementioned fliers being one.

As for my source, of course I can't reveal him. It'd be a plain disservice to his trust. What I can say is that he is a wealth of knowledge about all things GW, Forgeworld, and Black Library, and has many contacts therein (and I don't mean GW store managers. I mean Codex and BL authors, and GW and Forgeworld sculptors).

I would be very surprised if I was proved wrong by the passage of time and the developments therein, but such is the nature of the future. Take it or leave it, but I'm confident that you shouldn't have to take too much salt with this.

The Dude
17-04-2012, 05:06
I know Harry originally said Eldar for the starter (but may have paired them with Chaos, not DA) but when Hastings claimed DA vs Chaos, he said not to bet against Hastings.

Will be interesting to see if Hastings was in fact wrong.

drbored
17-04-2012, 05:13
I know Harry originally said Eldar for the starter (but may have paired them with Chaos, not DA) but when Hastings claimed DA vs Chaos, he said not to bet against Hastings.

Will be interesting to see if Hastings was in fact wrong.

All GW trends and business logic already disagrees with Chaos vs Dark Angels. The fact of the matter, from what I understand, is that if they saturate the release of 6th edition with power armored armies being released, then they can kiss goodbye to revenues later when they don't have power armored armies to release. It's as if a grocery store sold all their milk in one week and couldn't restock it for weeks after. Simply not a good plan. Beyond that, it's always been Space Marines versus Xenos. Rogue Trader saw boxes of Space Marines paired with Space Orks. Second Edition was Black Templar and Dark Eldar. 3rd edition was Space Marines and Orks. 4th edition was Space Marines and Tyranids. 5th edition was Space Marines and Orks. (I may have gotten 2nd and 3rd mixed...) It's how they introduce players to the game.

A double-power armored starter box would be a deal-seeker's dream, and GW would lose a lot of revenue on selling other boxes of power armored guys. Why would I buy 4 boxes of 10 Chaos Marines for 35 bucks a pop (140 dollars) when I can get the same, plus dreads and HQ's for only 100 with a mini rulebook! Shave off some Dark Angel or Chaos bits respectively and you're good to go at 1250+ points right off the bat. It's not good business. Betting on DA vs. Chaos in a starter is like wishing GW to go to your door and just hand you a 100 dollar check. Just won't happen.

The Dude
17-04-2012, 05:35
All GW trends and business logic already disagrees with Chaos vs Dark Angels. The fact of the matter, from what I understand, is that if they saturate the release of 6th edition with power armored armies being released, then they can kiss goodbye to revenues later when they don't have power armored armies to release.

Meh. A lot of assumptions in that statement. Personally, I wouldn't attempt to guess at the "logic" behind any decision GW.

It could be as simple as a double Power Armour starter is easier to balance. If it is used the way they want it to be, i.e. as an introductory game for newbies, both players having easy to play forces (read Marines) makes it less likely one player will bomb out miserably and be soured towards the hobby because of it.

Can you imagine what would happen with Eldar? You'd have the noobs fighting each other to play the Marines because the Eldar die too easily :p

If GW are so concerned about people doubling up their forces through converting the other half, all they need to do is make sure the models are so heavily Chaos / Dark Angel that it's not worth it.

We've heard people make similar claims in the past about GW stopping the boxed game altogether or making them have only one army, because people split boxes and resell what they don't want. I see just as little chance of that happening as them specifically avoiding DA vs Chaos simply because they're both Marines.

Again, I'm not saying you're wrong, just that I try not to make that sort of assumption about GW's motivations.

Faitfull
17-04-2012, 05:38
It would be awesome that the xenos finally get a little love.

sometime one wonder if the grim dark furture among the stars, only truly holds spacemarines and their friends!

drbored
17-04-2012, 05:43
Touche, Dude, I didn't think about those points.

Well, logic'ing aside, the info that I got suggests DA/Eldar.. I'm not saying that's the gospel, but time will certainly tell!

Maxis Lithium
17-04-2012, 05:43
Hasting has allready said that it won't just be Chaos Marines in the core rules, but something else. and it's been indicated to not be demons. this leaves likely Cultists/Traitor humans which would not be power armored. I suspect your source is repeating the rumors from the other thread, rather then new information. As it is, If we are hearing about Necron in May, that mean (at least to me) that we won't see a new codex for 40K until after 6th ed drops into our hot little hands. I would like to be proven wrong on thi fact, but I fear I will be right.

I expect that your source is speculating, not gathering information from inside the company.

drbored
17-04-2012, 05:57
Hasting has allready said that it won't just be Chaos Marines in the core rules, but something else. and it's been indicated to not be demons. this leaves likely Cultists/Traitor humans which would not be power armored. I suspect your source is repeating the rumors from the other thread, rather then new information. As it is, If we are hearing about Necron in May, that mean (at least to me) that we won't see a new codex for 40K until after 6th ed drops into our hot little hands. I would like to be proven wrong on thi fact, but I fear I will be right.

I expect that your source is speculating, not gathering information from inside the company.

With Necron at the beginning of May, that leaves all the rest of May and June for a full Codex release before 6th edition drops in July like new editions tend to. Splash releases don't take up a full month. Empire released with the new paints a week before and decal sheets a week after.

And if he's repeating stuff that's already been said, doesn't that lend more credence to these particular rumors though?

eldargal
17-04-2012, 05:59
I've been told that Eldar have been the 2nd or 3rd best selling army after Space Marines in general and Imperial Guard (depending on the codex) since the 90s, from a variety of reliable sources over the past year (including past and present high-ups in GW). The idea that they have suddenly become GWs worst selling army strikes me as somewhat ridiculous. Not to mention B and C woudl basically contradict themselves, how would GW know Eldar have a huge fanbase if they don't sell well and why would they not sell well if they have a huge fanbase? Very few of the kits are dated to the extent you see in some other ranges and the plastic kits are abundant and excellent.

I've also been hearing from a few reliable rumourmongers that Eldar are firmly slotted in for next year, which doesn't necessarily mean they won't be in the starter.

I'd like for these rumours to be true but I can't help but be very skeptical, too much of the reasoning seems like speculation and assumptions.

Also, as for Eldar being a 'girl-getter' this seems to me like more fan speculation. Obviously I only have anecdotal evidence but I know close to thirty female games online and in person and Tyranids are the most popular choice, with Eldar, SoB, Orks, IG, DE and SM all being roughly equal.

The Dude
17-04-2012, 06:02
And if he's repeating stuff that's already been said, doesn't that lend more credence to these particular rumors though?

Not if he's just getting it from here ;)


I've been told that Eldar have been the 2nd or 3rd best selling army after Space Marines in general and Imperial Guard (depending on the codex) since the 90s, from a variety of reliable sources over the past year (including past and present high-ups in GW). The idea that they have suddenly become GWs worst selling army strikes me as somewhat ridiculous. Not to mention B and C woudl basically contradict themselves, how would GW know Eldar have a huge fanbase if they don't sell well and why would they not sell well if they have a huge fanbase? Very few of the kits are dated to the extent you see in some other ranges and the plastic kits are abundant and excellent.

Indeed. Some of that seems to be assumption based on personal opinion.

Shas'O'Stormblade
17-04-2012, 06:03
I will be honest, I was not looking forward to the 2 power armor starter box idea. I thought that if it were to happen that way though, they would include daemons in the box as part of the Chaos choice, maybe some cultist/traitor guardsmen, and one squad of plague/noise/beserkers/thousand suns marines. DA vs. Eldar would be interesting, but being a game marketed for kids, the hero's/HQ choices would have to be able to take each other on one on one and be a fair fight. Currently, Eldar HQ choices can't take on a Marine captain of any flavor without being a named character.

It doesn't make sense to me with DA and Eldar in the starter box, but then again neither does Chaos. None of the 3 armies have had a codex update recently and there are no concrete rumors, other than yours, that we will even get another codex before 6th. To my understanding, every time GW releases the starter box, both armies are updated within a couple months. For Black Reach, the Orks got a new codex right before 5th, and Marines got theirs a month after. I can't speak for the other starter sets as I wasn't playing at that time.

Honestly it would suprise me less for GK and Chaos of some sorts in the starter set. GK is a solid (dare I say overpowered) codex that just got updated last year, and Chaos could be released right after 6th drops. Thats just speculation however.

However, I will eat my words if Eldar show up in the starter, and I will bow to GW if Tau are in the starter.

Avian
17-04-2012, 06:04
I would think that one reason for not going power armour vs power armour is that the forces would be quite difficult to tell apart unpainted. So to make it more visual and more engaging, they want quite different silhouettes.

drbored
17-04-2012, 06:06
I've been told that Eldar have been the 2nd or 3rd best selling army after Space Marines in general and Imperial Guard (depending on the codex) since the 90s, from a variety of reliable sources over the past year (including past and present high-ups in GW). The idea that they have suddenly become GWs worst selling army strikes me as somewhat ridiculous. Not to mention B and C woudl basically contradict themselves, how would GW know Eldar have a huge fanbase if they don't sell well and why would they not sell well if they have a huge fanbase? Very few of the kits are dated to the extent you see in some other ranges and the plastic kits are abundant and excellent.

I've also been hearing from a few reliable rumourmongers that Eldar are firmly slotted in for next year, which doesn't necessarily mean they won't be in the starter.

I'd like for these rumours to be true but I can't help but be very skeptical, too much of the reasoning seems like speculation and assumptions.

Simple. The Eldar have gained a massive fanbase from past releases, but over the past year or so, they have been the worst selling army. A lot of people love them, but those people have typically had their Eldar for a lot longer. People that ask 'should I start Eldar?' are met with 'No, because it's old and full of metal/finecast and hasn't gotten an update.' It was that way with Dark Eldar. When people asked 'should I start DE?' people replied 'No, wait for the update'.

So, since the 90's, I'm sure you're right, Eldar have sold very well. Take a look at those trends since 2005 though. The popularity in sales drops off.


I will be honest, I was not looking forward to the 2 power armor starter box idea. I thought that if it were to happen that way though, they would include daemons in the box as part of the Chaos choice, maybe some cultist/traitor guardsmen, and one squad of plague/noise/beserkers/thousand suns marines. DA vs. Eldar would be interesting, but being a game marketed for kids, the hero's/HQ choices would have to be able to take each other on one on one and be a fair fight. Currently, Eldar HQ choices can't take on a Marine captain of any flavor without being a named character.

It doesn't make sense to me with DA and Eldar in the starter box, but then again neither does Chaos. None of the 3 armies have had a codex update recently and there are no concrete rumors, other than yours, that we will even get another codex before 6th. To my understanding, every time GW releases the starter box, both armies are updated within a couple months. For Black Reach, the Orks got a new codex right before 5th, and Marines got theirs a month after. I can't speak for the other starter sets as I wasn't playing at that time.

Honestly it would suprise me less for GK and Chaos of some sorts in the starter set. GK is a solid (dare I say overpowered) codex that just got updated last year, and Chaos could be released right after 6th drops. Thats just speculation however.

However, I will eat my words if Eldar show up in the starter, and I will bow to GW if Tau are in the starter.

Key point is highlighted in bold. Eldar would be updated within the next couple of months, just like Space Marines were for 5th edition.

eldargal
17-04-2012, 06:11
They had a new book in 2006 with some excellent new plastic kits, they have received a lot of FW love in the last 18 months as well. They also still have some competitive builds, if not exactly top tier. Are we really expected to believe that they are selling worse than SoB and Tau, with very old books and dated model ranges? Or even Tyranids with a good model range but what is considered the worst 5th edition book? No offense to your source but it just doesn't seem to make much sense.

Don't misunderstand, I'd love nothing more than Eldar to be in the starter box, and if they are selling poorly then they ought to get some attention. It isn't that I don't want this to happen, I just find the reasoning behind what your source says as flawed, especially since it contradicts quite strongly what I've been told about Eldar sales (I've asked specifically) in the past year.

Rick Blaine
17-04-2012, 06:12
-A. Eldar is a girl-getter. It's the one army that attracts more girls to the game than any other.


Nope, girls play SoB and Tyranids.

Battleworthy Arts
17-04-2012, 06:13
These rumors sound like the most rubbish rumors I have heard since "evasion value".

Poncho160
17-04-2012, 06:13
Eldar in the box set would be awesome!!! If its true, I could see some new Aspect Warriors, a walker of some type and maybe even some new jetbikes!! It could even be a good buisness plan to include new jet bikes as every Eldar player would want some and the only way to get some would be to buy the boxed set!

drbored
17-04-2012, 06:17
They had a new book in 2006 with some excellent new plastic kits, they have received a lot of FW love in the last 18 months as well. They also still have some competitive builds, if not exactly top tier. Are we really expected to believe that they are selling worse than SoB and Tau, with very old books and dated model ranges? Or even Tyranids with a good model range but what is considered the worst 5th edition book? No offense to your source but it just doesn't seem to make much sense.

You definitely make fantastic points, but Tau is also predominantly plastic, whereas almost all aspect warriors for Eldar are metal or finecast. SoB and loyal space marine variants aside, Eldar, Tau, and Chaos Marines are now the oldest Codices since Necron have been released. Also I'll admit I pulled '2005' out of my behind, as I didn't know Eldar were updated in 2006. That said, I agree that Eldar being the worst seller is quite the blanket statement when you consider SoB and Tau. Still, you have to look at sales trends over the past 3 years. Older Codices get less love.

zoggin-eck
17-04-2012, 06:19
I would think that one reason for not going power armour vs power armour is that the forces would be quite difficult to tell apart unpainted. So to make it more visual and more engaging, they want quite different silhouettes.

Makes sense to me. Perhaps it's the same for the box artwork and related advertising. The usual space marines fighting somehting else looks more interesting to an outsider than marines fighting marines. Look at how different the two forces on the Island of Blood cover look, for instance.

Alarum
17-04-2012, 06:20
I hope that doesnt mean DA get the "test" codex for the new edition, and that it comes in hard back. We all know how the last test panned out. :shifty:

Battleworthy Arts
17-04-2012, 06:22
Truer words never spoken, Mr. Blaine.

drbored
17-04-2012, 06:22
I hope that doesnt mean DA get the "test" codex for the new edition, and that it comes in hard back. We all know how the last test panned out. :shifty:

You mean Orks? Orks are still actually pretty awesome. The trouble with older codices versus newer codices is that with older codices you don't get the luxury of throwing *anything* at your opponent and winning against older codices. The older a Codex gets, the more restricted certain options get in terms of competitiveness. Orks still have a number of competitive builds that are not only varied, but fun to play and fun to play against.


Nope, girls play SoB and Tyranids.

In my meta, girls play Necron and Space Wolves. I've never seen a single girl play SoB, though I have seen a number play Tyranids. I've asked girl gamers their opinion on SoB, and the response I get typically is 'ew'.

And of course, I'll just tack on that rumors are rumors. I could be dead wrong, I'll be the first to admit that, but I do trust my source, and while the reasons may not make a whole lot of sense and may not have any sort of reference behind them, the logic of the releases still does make sense from a business/trend standpoint.

I wouldn't mind whether I'm right or wrong. I'm just waiting for Chaos to get an update so I can field my Slaanesh army again...

Darnok
17-04-2012, 06:44
Too much contradictions to previous rumours, and too much contradictions in itself to my taste.

With May/June being close we'll see soon enough though.

Soldado
17-04-2012, 06:44
Chaos vs DA makes sense if we take in account that chaos can be cooltist/traitor guard, and then, is not PA vs PA. Just saying.

Aun Tier
17-04-2012, 06:45
I would personally be surprised to see Eldar in the Box-Set. I'm fairly confident that they won't be too far off of 6th Edition, but if they were going to be coming out that soon then I would have expected far more in the way of rumors for them. So far, the only things I've seen for Eldar lately have been you and one other person (I think it was Harry a little bit back) saying that they would be in the box set. With several other armies all being rumored to have imminent releases for some time (Tau, Black Templars, Chaos), I'm just very skeptical of Eldar randomly jumping in front of all of them, 'just cause'.

hazmiter
17-04-2012, 06:45
I dunno I'm hoping against all hope that dark angels and chaos get the box, because it would be awesome.
And a canny player would make a fallen chaos army.

javgoro
17-04-2012, 06:52
DA vs. Eldar I can believe, I guess. It makes sense from a business standpoint; this said, I do not, by any stretch of the imagination, can believe that they're currently the worst selling army (seriously, worse than sisters of battle?). This makes the rest of the rumours dubious at least. I guess weŽll see in a couple of months. Thanks for the info either way.

Rick Blaine
17-04-2012, 07:11
So we went from Chaos vs Eldar, to Chaos vs DA, to DA vs Eldar. The cycle is now complete (and the starter will probably be IG vs Nids)

Darnok
17-04-2012, 07:15
I dunno I'm hoping against all hope that dark angels and chaos get the box.

I don't see why it should be "against all hope". At least in my opinion the variant of Chaos vs. DA is still the most likely, supported by some solid rumours - as solid as rumours can be.

Anyway, I wanted to add some thanks to the OP. Even if these turn out to be wrong.

drbored
17-04-2012, 07:33
So we went from Chaos vs Eldar, to Chaos vs DA, to DA vs Eldar. The cycle is now complete (and the starter will probably be IG vs Nids)

This just tells me that the next three releases will be Eldar, Chaos, and Dark Angels, not necessarily in that order.


I don't see why it should be "against all hope". At least in my opinion the variant of Chaos vs. DA is still the most likely, supported by some solid rumours - as solid as rumours can be.

Anyway, I wanted to add some thanks to the OP. Even if these turn out to be wrong.

You're welcome. Just thought you all should know what I heard, even if it's wrong. After all, aren't a large percent of rumormongers eventually glaringly wrong in their predictions anyway? Time will tell.

Tarax
17-04-2012, 08:06
Can you imagine what would happen with Eldar? You'd have the noobs fighting each other to play the Marines because the Eldar die too easily :p

This, and the fact that starter sets usually come with a small elite army vs a horde army, both in Fantasy and 40K (Fantasy: HE vs Goblins (4th), Bret vs Lizardmen (5th), Empire vs Orcs (6th) (well, maybe not this one), Dwarfs vs Goblins (7th), HE vs Skaven (8th); 40K: SM vs Orks (2nd), SM vs DE (3rd) (well, maybe not this one), SM vs Tyranids (4th), SM vs Orks (5th)).
Since it will always be SM vs ?, and Eldar can hardly be called a horde army, I have my doubts.
Which horde armies are out there? Orks, Tyranids and IG. Maybe it's Tyranids again with a new codex coming soon?

We'll just have to wait and see.

crandall87
17-04-2012, 08:40
As much as I want a new Chaos codex this year I do think having Eldar in the starter box will be a good move. Two power armour armies will be a bit silly. With so many conflicting rumours about I'll take it all with salt

ThePope
17-04-2012, 08:49
As much as I want a new Chaos codex this year I do think having Eldar in the starter box will be a good move. Two power armour armies will be a bit silly. With so many conflicting rumours about I'll take it all with salt

Again most rumors say chaos cultists are the majority.

prowla
17-04-2012, 09:10
Can you imagine what would happen with Eldar? You'd have the noobs fighting each other to play the Marines because the Eldar die too easily :p




I would think that one reason for not going power armour vs power armour is that the forces would be quite difficult to tell apart unpainted. So to make it more visual and more engaging, they want quite different silhouettes.

That's +2 for my Necrons in the set -hunch :p

Graystoak
17-04-2012, 09:16
If the trend to make 40k more 'shooty' is continuing through to 6th then putting Eldar in the box against Marines makes a lot of sense. They're one of the original 40k races and pack enough AP3 weapons to level out the toughness issues. Its a great way to introduce Players to the idea of fragile hard hitting troops vs tough all rounders. Not to mention they've not had a codex since early 5th.

Galfinnan
17-04-2012, 09:59
I think it is a given that DA will be in the new box. They are in the starter paint set, the image on the spine of WD, etc. What I would say though, I have seen a sprue from the starter paint set (it was on ebay) and the DA shoulder pads are separate from the body of the marine. How much effort would it take to sculpt a different pad for chaos marines ? I think it would be pretty easy to do this, add to this a new weapon etc and you could have 2 distinct marines one for chaos one for DA with very little effort and an almost identical sprue for both. Before you say this would provide too much value it would take a fair bit of effort to convert these snap on pads and weapons to be able to use all the marines in the set for a single army and the only place you could get these would be in the box set. I doubt the likes of chapterhouse would be able to supply pads and weapons that would fit as GW would soon act to prevent this. If this did happen then you would be able to get together with someone and and split the contents of two boxes but then that has always been possible and I can't really think of any way to prevent this and still maintain the value of the box contents.

I don't think that it would entirely impossible for there to be two box sets, indeed I think it would be a great idea. I used to play Orcs and Goblins in WFB a long long time ago when they were in the starter set. Just now in the WFB starter set it is High Elves and Skaven. As much I would like to get back into it the starter set holds no appeal to me because of its contents. Now if there was another box set of say Orcs vs Empire in addittion to this then I would buy that instead. Would the increased sales from this justify the extra cost to produce two sets? I'm not sure but I think it might be worth GW trying to find this out.

Shebnar
17-04-2012, 10:11
I believe in these rumors, given the sheer hate GW has for Chaos (and Chaos players).

Pushing forward a much needed upgrade for a (former) major army is just another step towards the inevitable squatification of Chaos.
6th Edition, with DA vs Eldar, will reflect the new Xenohammer background, which sees the Imperium fighting against the alien threat.

ErictheGreen
17-04-2012, 10:21
I got a rare opportunity to ply a wealth of information for some knowledge and insight about what's coming up next/soon.

Here's the rundown...

Dark Angels (May/June)
6th Edition (July/August)
-Starter Box featuring Dark Angels vs. Eldar
Eldar (Oct/Nov Xenos slot)

And somewhere in that mix is going to be a splash release of fliers that *should* include the Harpy, Voidraven Bomber, Doom/Night Scythe, and possibly more. When I mentioned 'Autumn of Fliers' I got a derisive snort, so we may see it sooner, we may see it later.

This confirms two things:
1. It's not going to be Dark Angels and Chaos for the Starter Box. GW is NOT going to put two power armor armies in the same box. Power armor is their bread and butter, and to put two power armor armies in one starter box doesn't follow any trends, going back to the Rogue Trader days. It *may* be Dark Angels vs. Tau, but my source suggested Eldar strongly for several reasons.
-A. Eldar is a girl-getter. It's the one army that attracts more girls to the game than any other.
-B. Eldar is currently the worst selling army.
-C. Eldar has a massive loyal fanbase.
Eldar are the logical step, and now they're the rumored next step in this coming Xenos season.

2. Chaos is not going to be coming out this year, but may be slotted for early 2013. This is good and bad... bad because we don't get Chaos sooner. Good because it means Chaos will be a true 6th edition army, and not a 'made for' 6th edition army. This will put more time between the release of the rules and the finessing of the Codices, which means a better 6th edition Codex for Chaos. We could, of course, get a surprise, where they slam in a new Codex into the year, but that doesn't trend either. My source suggested, however, that we may see a lot of 'splash' releases packed in, with the aforementioned fliers being one.

As for my source, of course I can't reveal him. It'd be a plain disservice to his trust. What I can say is that he is a wealth of knowledge about all things GW, Forgeworld, and Black Library, and has many contacts therein (and I don't mean GW store managers. I mean Codex and BL authors, and GW and Forgeworld sculptors).

I would be very surprised if I was proved wrong by the passage of time and the developments therein, but such is the nature of the future. Take it or leave it, but I'm confident that you shouldn't have to take too much salt with this.


Hmmmmms........

Firstly, thank you for sharing this. You seem confident in your source (even though it's third hand - horses mouth, to him, to you) and it isn't just a redshirt, as we know they are treated like mushrooms these days.

Edition releases have traditionally been July, with a month to settle in and the box set released in september at UK games day. We have never had a new codex 1 month before the new rules, simply because it doesn't make business sense to drop the hardback rulebook just after what is (hopefully) a big spending month for a new army. A new codex just after the hard back rulebook only makes sense if that army is in the starter set. By that logic, if we are getting a new 40k codex, it should be May OR July. We can expect that race to be in the starter set in September.

As to your points about Eldar:
A: need to see evidence for this. most girls I've seen in the game play Tyranids. The aesthetic of the Eldar may well appeal to women, but I'd posit that if you're into 40k as a girl, you're into the Grimdark side. I can certainly see girls picking up High/Dark/Wood Elves in Fantasy, but space elves is debatable.
B: Tau? Demons? Sisters? all these armies are very, very rarely seen. I do see a smattering of Eldar, again, because they have a great aesthetic and their models (even though some are heinously old) are gorgeous, so you can put up with the lower power level. I don't buy this. Particularly because of the next point...
C: Yes. Yes it does. They have been an iconic race in the game for many a year. HOWEVER...while they are Xenos, they don't fill the traditional bad guy role like Chaos, Nids and Orks do. Eldar are mysterious, scheme-y and capricious. They are just as likely to ally with Imperial forces as destroy them. That doesn't make for a stand alone game unless there's some fluff retconning.

I would imagine that Chaos vs. Dark Angels would only work if Chaos got a fairly hefty overhaul and had cultist troop units, who would be the bulk of the box. Likely this would mean Legion units gain a jump on the power scale, with special HQs to allow Legion lists without cult support. That's pure speculation, but I agree that 2 power armoured armies in the box is a step away from all the box releases GW have ever done.

The biggest one that gets me is Dark Angels in May. We have StickMonkey, who's traditionally pretty reliable saying Dark Angels won't see any love until 2013 and Harry saying Chaos are likely to be the first 6th ed codex (meaning it would make sense for them to be in the box).

I have my own source, who's seen the playtesting rules for 6th, Tau, Chaos, and Eldar (but no mention of Templars or Dark Angels), which makes me think StickMonkey may be right. having said that, the process from playtesting to release can be a hugely lengthy one, as other rumour mongers will attest to. The Sisters plastics, for example, are supposed to have been ready to go (as in, the designs to create the mold tools) for the last 5 years, but they sit on the shelf. Whether that's true or not, I do recall Harry saying how much stuff he's seen that is years away or simply never gets released.

There's so many conflicting rumours floating around that all much be huge pile of salt territory.

I tip my hat to Harry, Hastings, drbored and others who provide us with these snippets and keep us excited. I suppose May will be a big indicator as to what is coming.



I believe in these rumors, given the sheer hate GW has for Chaos (and Chaos players).

Pushing forward a much needed upgrade for a (former) major army is just another step towards the inevitable squatification of Chaos.
6th Edition, with DA vs Eldar, will reflect the new Xenohammer background, which sees the Imperium fighting against the alien threat.

except Chaos is central to the entire mythos of 40k from the imperial perspective and plays a great part in the Eldar/Dark Eldar background as well.

Given that the Grey Knights and Necron codexes point to an increasing threat of Chaos (if you can stomach the Ward fluff, it's quite plain to see in the GK book) and the HUGE following Chaos has (nearly every gamer I know has a legion army collecting dust), I can't see the focus of 6th being Xenoshammer.

Graystoak
17-04-2012, 10:26
Seriously?! Have you not looked on the black LIbrary shelf lately? Chaos are everywhere. As long as there are marines there will be evil marines. Even if they don't come in a box set together.

Raibaru
17-04-2012, 11:22
I say save the Chaos vs. SM starter box for 7th edition when they drop all Xenos army and change the name to Warhammer 30k.

Eldar vs SM could work since not all of their units are really that fragile. Reapers, Scorpions, Jetbikes, and a wave serpent vs dread, marines, terminators, and a pred would be on par really.

I just wany some actual confirmations on something... or the days to go by quicker as Eldar or Dark Angels (or both!) is all cool with me.

Shebnar
17-04-2012, 11:31
Seriously?! Have you not looked on the black LIbrary shelf lately? Chaos are everywhere. As long as there are marines there will be evil marines. Even if they don't come in a box set together.

Well, I don't care about Black Library shelves. I am a player and I don't see Chaos on the tabletops. Why? Try playing an army that's screwed at every single level of the gaming experience: fluff-wise, rules-wise, FAQ-wise, GD-wise (Cavatore: "You want to play a Legion? You cheese player!!! How dare to insult my masterpiece Codex!"), and you'll see the answer for yourself.

The 6th edition is going to be published this year, and Chaos is not even in the horizon. The last (partially) playable Chaos Codex dates back to the 3rd edition (LOL).
If they can't manage Chaos ("too many power armors!" "too many Codices!" "too many Chaos players!" "Too many Legions!" "Too many rules!") then, well, they can cancel it. In fact I'd rather it. I'd rather see Squatification than this slow decline.
Chaos can be demoted to Black Library fluffbooks, historic settings, old amateurs, Fantasy Flight RPGs.
No more headaches for Game Developers, no more xenowhiners ("Booooh! Another power armored Codex!!!"), and eventually GW can focus on other fundamental xenoraces, like the necessary Barghesi, the powerful Hrud, the awesome Umbra and so on.

Aun Tier
17-04-2012, 11:39
The 6th edition is going to be published this year, and Chaos is not even in the horizon.

Wait... Are you saying that Chaos won't be released in the starter set because it's not even on the horizon?

eldargal
17-04-2012, 11:40
Chaos is on the horizon, actually.

khaosmarines
17-04-2012, 12:00
No chaos this year..... sucks

Graystoak
17-04-2012, 12:05
Im just saying If your compairing Chaos to Squats, squats dissappeared from the background as well as the table. The reason you don't get many Chaos players is because they're all fed up playing with the travesty that is the current codex. You, me & GW all know that if chaos players had a decent Codex we'd be all over it.

Sythica
17-04-2012, 12:08
While firmly acknowledging the fact that rumours are rumours, and thus can be equally right or wrong, it would make some sense that Eldar get involved here. The Fantasy rumours peg Q4 for a Warriors of Chaos release, and I can't see GW releasing Chaos for both systems (with certainly multiple waves required for 40K) within a few months of each other. That would be too ... chaotic. However, when faced with a logical business plan, it seems the GW execs simply run for the hills.

Either way, thanks for the rumours. I don't know why GW doesn't just get off their butt and announce 6th already. I can see why it makes sense to keep upcoming model releases quiet, so that people keep buying old models. But getting people excited for a new edition for more than a few months (gasp) before release will only increase model sales. Since the arrival of 6th is the only rumour we all seem to believe in, I can just imagine some crazy person in GW deciding to delay it until next year, just to finally screw the rumour providers over, once and for all.

ErictheGreen
17-04-2012, 12:18
I don't know why GW doesn't just get off their butt and announce 6th already. I can see why it makes sense to keep upcoming model releases quiet, so that people keep buying old models. But getting people excited for a new edition for more than a few months (gasp) before release will only increase model sales.

no it won't. It will hit sales. With all the moaning about THSS terminators, they might get brutalised in 6th (standardised wargear like fantasy has) and that hammernator squad you have now is a point sink.

it will stop people buying models. maybe not the little timmy's of this world, but the rest of us who've been in the hobby a while? sure will.

Garanaul the Black
17-04-2012, 12:24
While firmly acknowledging the fact that rumours are rumours, and thus can be equally right or wrong, it would make some sense that Eldar get involved here. The Fantasy rumours peg Q4 for a Warriors of Chaos release, and I can't see GW releasing Chaos for both systems (with certainly multiple waves required for 40K) within a few months of each other. That would be too ... chaotic. However, when faced with a logical business plan, it seems the GW execs simply run for the hills


Not that I have any insight into this but, didn't GW release Demons for both 40K and Fantasy at about or exactly the same time? I don't see a problem with a massive influx of Chaos releases over two gaming systems, it would also really tie into 2012 and all of that end of the world crap. :)


Thanks for the rumors, even if it means I might have to wait a while longer for my Legions (or whatever they end up becoming).

G

Worldeaters
17-04-2012, 12:29
Not that I have any insight into this but, didn't GW release Demons for both 40K and Fantasy at about or exactly the same time? I don't see a problem with a massive influx of Chaos releases over two gaming systems, it would also really tie into 2012 and all of that end of the world crap. :)


Thanks for the rumors, even if it means I might have to wait a while longer for my Legions (or whatever they end up becoming).

G

they shared the same models is the only reason for duel release, just had to choose round or square bases

RedemptionNL
17-04-2012, 12:30
Not that I have any insight into this but, didn't GW release Demons for both 40K and Fantasy at about or exactly the same time?

Those were the exactly same models though, just with a different base shape. Largest difference was the codex book.

ChrisMurray
17-04-2012, 12:37
Baseless, pointless post.

Thanks for that.

Anyway, thank you to the OP for this new set of rumours, it will be interesting to see how they pan out as we now are starting to get rumours that contradict other rumours (through no fault of the people posting them). This is great news as it gives us all plenty to discuss and debate in a sensible way. I must admit I'm not too worried who is in the starter box as I will just buy the hard back rulebook, but I can see advantages for both Chaos vs DA and Eldar vs DA.

Current rumours do seem to be pushing Chaos into early next year which is a shame but at least we are pretty sure they are coming in the near future (within the next four codex releases seems to be the general idea). I do find it interesting that we are able to find out some details about the next few codexes\releases but have no idea what order\when they are to come but thats the nature of the rumour mill at the moment and I'm just glad that we have rumours at all.

Aun Tier
17-04-2012, 12:43
Does anyone feel that a Tau Vs DA starter set is possible? The OP suggested that it *may* have been Tau, but was Eldar for three main reasons. Seeing as those reasons have basically all been condemned as the personal opinion of the source, does that not make Tau equally possible as the counter-Imperium army for this release? Just something to think about...

NixonAsADaemonPrince
17-04-2012, 12:58
Technically it is possible for any army to appear in the starter set, just that some are more likely than others....And I wouldn't rate Tau as a front runner ;)

Not that I have any particular knowledge except that which is gleaned from frequenting these rumour forums.

Damaged Dan
17-04-2012, 13:52
Does anyone feel that a Tau Vs DA starter set is possible? The OP suggested that it *may* have been Tau, but was Eldar for three main reasons. Seeing as those reasons have basically all been condemned as the personal opinion of the source, does that not make Tau equally possible as the counter-Imperium army for this release? Just something to think about...

You may be on to something there.

I just popped onto the Tau rumour thread, where Shabbadoo has claimed Tau in JUNE. Just thought I would drop here that for anyone who, like me, only frequents the threads they have a vested interest in.

Tymell
17-04-2012, 14:02
First off: thanks for the rumours :) They're always appreciated even if they turn out to be wrong. Second, what I'm about to post isn't the result of any insider info, just my thoughts:


GW is NOT going to put two power armor armies in the same box. Power armor is their bread and butter, and to put two power armor armies in one starter box doesn't follow any trends, going back to the Rogue Trader days.

There seems to be this odd idea among some that "power armour" is some other class of army. "Power armour" is a background concept, nothing more. Space marines are very likely for the starter set, but that's all that can be deduced really.

Avian's point about telling armies apart however, that -does- make a bit more sense.


-A. Eldar is a girl-getter. It's the one army that attracts more girls to the game than any other.

For one, this feels like pure guessing/anecdotal evidence, and even if it's true then why does that make them more likely to appear in the starter set? If Eldar -are- a "girl-getter" army then why would GW introduce a new edition with an army that apparently won't appeal as much to the vast majority of their customers?


-B. Eldar is currently the worst selling army.

What's the source on this? Is there (and I ask this seriously, because it'd be fascinating if there is) a source that gives a breakdown of all sales by army?


-C. Eldar has a massive loyal fanbase.

The same could be said of any army.


Eldar are the logical step, and now they're the rumored next step in this coming Xenos season.

Since when has there been a "Xenos season"? Okay, we had Necrons and Dark Eldar for the last two Novembers, but prior to that there's no kind of pattern for it. As with the power armour thing, this feels like people trying to force things into categories that just aren't there.

Personally, I think both Tau and Eldar are unlikely. Typically the starter set should "represent" 40K in some way. Space marines are archetypal (not to mention the biggest sellers), they give the side of "humanity desperately struggling to survive (but being awesome with it)", and should really be up against something suitable vicious and grimdark, to give us the outside/alien menace. Hence, Tyranids, Orks, Necrons, Dark Eldar and Chaos all fit fine, but Eldar and Tau don't feel villainous enough.


Obviously I only have anecdotal evidence but I know close to thirty female games online and in person and Tyranids are the most popular choice, with Eldar, SoB, Orks, IG, DE and SM all being roughly equal.

Add another to that: an ex-girlfriend of mine got quite into 40K, and was firmly a Tyranid fan.

Starchild
17-04-2012, 14:20
DA vs. Eldar would be interesting, but being a game marketed for kids, the hero's/HQ choices would have to be able to take each other on one on one and be a fair fight. Currently, Eldar HQ choices can't take on a Marine captain of any flavor without being a named character.Since when have 40k starter sets featured evenly matched sides? In a straight up fight the SMs will nearly always win. It's the actual scenarios in the starter set that provide the balancing factor. In some missions only one squad of SMs are used, while in others the xeno player can recycle units.

Vaktathi
17-04-2012, 14:40
Hrm, no Chaos until 2013 would make me a sad panda, and would seem to contradict a lot of what we've been hearing lately.

That said, I'd also really like any starter box to *not* be DA's vs CSM's, that just doesn't sound like a good starter, though as noted, trying to find logic in GW's decision making process of late is...difficult.




Also, as for Eldar being a 'girl-getter' this seems to me like more fan speculation. Obviously I only have anecdotal evidence but I know close to thirty female games online and in person and Tyranids are the most popular choice, with Eldar, SoB, Orks, IG, DE and SM all being roughly equal.

While I do not necessarily disagree with your point, your username and avatar in this case would seem to be rather ironic and indicate otherwise :p

Kaelarr
17-04-2012, 14:48
They will never put a full on tank in the starter set.

ErictheGreen
17-04-2012, 14:52
and you are referencing which post, exactly? I don't see anyone talking about tanks in the starter set.

RTB01
17-04-2012, 14:54
They will never put a full on tank in the starter set.

I remember in fantasy having a card griffon in 4th ed starter set. In 2nd ed 40K there was a card dreadnought, never would've thought they'd get both done in plastic in starter sets, I'd never say never...

MajorWesJanson
17-04-2012, 14:56
Since when has there been a "Xenos season"? Okay, we had Necrons and Dark Eldar for the last two Novembers, but prior to that there's no kind of pattern for it. As with the power armour thing, this feels like people trying to force things into categories that just aren't there.

Xenos season? How about looking at 5th edition, with the book in July, Starter in September, and Marines in October.

Tymell
17-04-2012, 15:01
Xenos season? How about looking at 5th edition, with the book in July, Starter in September, and Marines in October.

:confused: How does that equate a "xenos season"?

What I meant was, I got the impression from the OP that he was suggesting October/November was some kind of set time when we would always get a xenos release.

eldargal
17-04-2012, 15:04
I'm aware.:) I'm not saying girls don't collect Eldar, obviously we do, I'm just saying they are far from being a 'girl-getter' as far as my experience goes, and apparently others as a lot of people have said much the same things, namely that tyranids are the more popular choice with female gamers.

While I do not necessarily disagree with your point, your username and avatar in this case would seem to be rather ironic and indicate otherwise :p

MajorWesJanson
17-04-2012, 15:13
:confused: How does that equate a "xenos season"?

What I meant was, I got the impression from the OP that he was suggesting October/November was some kind of set time when we would always get a xenos release.

I meant to provide evidence that there was not a set Xenos season. Especially around new edition time.

Tymell
17-04-2012, 15:19
I meant to provide evidence that there was not a set Xenos season. Especially around new edition time.

Aha, gotcha. Sorry, I thought you were arguing against me :p

Ah-a-nothepsis
17-04-2012, 15:42
Thanks for thinking about my "preferences", GW. ^.~ I'll stick with Tsons instead of Eldar, though.

Time to bust out the Cryx for another year or so.

brassangel
17-04-2012, 15:54
I've been told that Eldar have been the 2nd or 3rd best selling army after Space Marines in general and Imperial Guard (depending on the codex) since the 90s, from a variety of reliable sources over the past year (including past and present high-ups in GW). The idea that they have suddenly become GWs worst selling army strikes me as somewhat ridiculous. Not to mention B and C woudl basically contradict themselves, how would GW know Eldar have a huge fanbase if they don't sell well and why would they not sell well if they have a huge fanbase? Very few of the kits are dated to the extent you see in some other ranges and the plastic kits are abundant and excellent.

I've also been hearing from a few reliable rumourmongers that Eldar are firmly slotted in for next year, which doesn't necessarily mean they won't be in the starter.

I'd like for these rumours to be true but I can't help but be very skeptical, too much of the reasoning seems like speculation and assumptions.

Also, as for Eldar being a 'girl-getter' this seems to me like more fan speculation. Obviously I only have anecdotal evidence but I know close to thirty female games online and in person and Tyranids are the most popular choice, with Eldar, SoB, Orks, IG, DE and SM all being roughly equal.


They had a new book in 2006 with some excellent new plastic kits, they have received a lot of FW love in the last 18 months as well. They also still have some competitive builds, if not exactly top tier. Are we really expected to believe that they are selling worse than SoB and Tau, with very old books and dated model ranges? Or even Tyranids with a good model range but what is considered the worst 5th edition book? No offense to your source but it just doesn't seem to make much sense.

Don't misunderstand, I'd love nothing more than Eldar to be in the starter box, and if they are selling poorly then they ought to get some attention. It isn't that I don't want this to happen, I just find the reasoning behind what your source says as flawed, especially since it contradicts quite strongly what I've been told about Eldar sales (I've asked specifically) in the past year.

Whether or not you are lead to believe it isn't the point. They have just sold poorly the last 18 months. Most Eldar players have everything, and have had it for a long time. Their "update" before 5th didn't add a whole lot. And the Tyranids saw massive sales spikes with the recent love they received, and are a swarm army which virtually guarantees a continuous need for buying. 60 gaunts isn't enough. 5-10 of an Aspect Warrior is plenty, however.

Scribe of Khorne
17-04-2012, 16:25
Ugh. With this and the news of the Necron wave it keeps looking more likely that my marines will remain mostly on the sidelines for any game that I want to be competitive in. Joy.

Vaktathi
17-04-2012, 16:28
I'm aware.:) I'm not saying girls don't collect Eldar, obviously we do, I'm just saying they are far from being a 'girl-getter' as far as my experience goes, and apparently others as a lot of people have said much the same things, namely that tyranids are the more popular choice with female gamers.Oh I know, and I agree, my experience is roughly similar. I just couldn't help commenting :p

Shamana
17-04-2012, 16:48
Ugh. With this and the news of the Necron wave it keeps looking more likely that my marines will remain mostly on the sidelines for any game that I want to be competitive in. Joy.

Eh, I was under the impression marines are a solid Tier 2 army. Not the creme de la creme unlike some of their more peculiar brethren (for now), but hardly the red-headed stepchild of 40k either.

Scribe of Khorne
17-04-2012, 17:07
Eh, I was under the impression marines are a solid Tier 2 army. Not the creme de la creme unlike some of their more peculiar brethren (for now), but hardly the red-headed stepchild of 40k either.

CSM? Maybe if you enjoy the monobuilds that are available. I have other armies as well though, so its easy to see how far back they are.

Starchild
17-04-2012, 17:17
Whether or not you are lead to believe it isn't the point. They have just sold poorly the last 18 months. Most Eldar players have everything, and have had it for a long time. Their "update" before 5th didn't add a whole lot. And the Tyranids saw massive sales spikes with the recent love they received, and are a swarm army which virtually guarantees a continuous need for buying. 60 gaunts isn't enough. 5-10 of an Aspect Warrior is plenty, however.That pretty much sums it up for me. The only Eldar I've bought over the last two years are Fire Prisms and Support Weapons... only because the models got updated. What Eldar really need is a new codex with unique rules that won't get stolen by the Imperial codices.

I think another huge factor is (ironically) the release of the new Dark Eldar. Many Craftworld players were lured away and judging from Jes G.'s comments in the design interviews this was exactly GW's intent.

Hopefully (if the rumours in the original post are correct) there will be mostly Aspect Warriors in the starter box instead of Guardians. New players would be dazzled by Aspect Warriors. Guardians would just frustrate players new to the hobby.

silverstu
17-04-2012, 17:46
Firstly- thanks for sharing the rumours - very good of you to pass on what you have heard. BUT -it does clash with Hastings who has stated not only that the starter is Chaos vs Dark angels - he has mentioned some of the contents too I think. And didn't Harry say that Chaos was the first codex for 6th? I haven't followed those rumours too much as I'm not interested in either of those factions- I'd much prefer Eldar in there and would hope that your source is correct but Harry and Hastings seem fairly sure and their record is impressive[but not completely flawless] so I'm betting that it is indeed Chaos coming.
On the eldar question- there is a point that the eldar range needs a boost- but I'd say that's a bit off yet- maybe next year [I'm sure it will be cracking judging by the recent army releases ].

samiens
17-04-2012, 17:48
My wife plays Nids- in my experience women hav a connection to them I will never understand-id be deeply surprised if Eldar are the most popular with women. That said, no idea if GW knows that or has evidence to back it up.

kargie
17-04-2012, 18:35
Any rumours which have a Codex release before 6th edition drops, especially given Fantasy's 8th edition release schedule, are rather suspect.

drbored
17-04-2012, 18:37
1. Wow, I had no idea girls had such a love for Tyranids. But let's think about it for a moment from a purely stereotypical, mysoginistic, opinionated point of view. Tyranids look like bugs. Typically, girls don't like bugs, bugs are gross. Eldar are pretty, elegant, colorful warriors. Girls like things that are pretty, elegant, and colorful. I'm not saying that this is fact and that this is why Eldar are the 'girl-getters', but it's possible these reasons have something to do with my source's statement. I've yet to actually *find* any concrete data to support this, but since he's been working with GW since the 1980's, I'm loathe to dismiss my source's ideas on the chance it's just a big stereotype. I also have yet to see any written, concrete sales data going back 3-5 years for the sales of Eldar models. If we can set SoB aside (because really.. just.. really), it's easy to see that Eldar, along with Chaos and Tau at this point as they are the oldest armies (again, aside from SM variants), cannot be doing very well right now, or over the past 2 years.

2. For the past two years we've seen Xenos in the November slot. Necrons this past year, Dark Eldar before them... When did Tyranids get released, I can't quite remember. Anyway, that's where I'm getting the 'xenos season'. A lot of people seem to be under the impression that GW likes to sell Xenos during the fall, not because of any business sense, but because.. well, that's just where they've been putting them. I'm sure there are other business reasons we're not aware of.

3. A lot of people have been saying 'these rumors clash with other rumors'. That's like saying 'this ghost is clashing with this other ghost'. Not only can we not see the ghosts, but we're not sure if the ghosts even really exist. To dismiss one set of rumors simply because someone else said something else is very premature. All rumormongers, including myself, could be dead wrong, and I wouldn't be surprised, in all honesty, if we were ALL wrong in some large section of the rumors we've brought forth. GW has a strict policy on leaks for a reason (a reason that's lost to me in all honesty), so hearing anything that ends up being 100% true from ANYBODY is extremely rare.

A lot of times the only time you do get something that's mostly true is because the rumor world is saturated with all the different plans and ideas that could come forth. For example, one person says its going to be DA vs Chaos in the starter. Another says Chaos vs Eldar. Another says DA vs. Eldar. Another says DA vs. Tau. Another says Chaos vs. Tau! The only thing anybody can really agree on is that the next couple of armies to get updated are going to be Dark Angels, Eldar, Tau, and Chaos, probably over the next two years, but nobody knows for certain what's going to happen. It's just as likely that GW has released various leaks and rumors to purposefully throw everyone off and into a tizzy so that the final release is truly a surprise. Where does that leave the rumormongers? Well, one of them is going to be right, and it's possible that he/she will be right purely by CHANCE, all things considered. Then, that rumormonger will go on saying 'Oh look at me, my rumors were right, I must be the next big rumormonger!' and what happens next? They post some more rumors that end up being flat wrong the next time around.

4. To those that thanked the OP, you're welcome. I was really excited to ply my source for this information, and I couldn't wait to share it with you all. I wish I could have asked him more about Chaos and what that might entail, but I doubt he has insight on the nitty gritty details of the Codex development. The fact that I could get these suggestions were enough for me, as it illuminated what could be coming ahead in the next year.

Even I would prefer for Chaos to be sooner than later! I have a whole painted Slaanesh army that's sitting on my desk gathering layer upon layer of dust because I refuse to play a spam of Plague Marines and Obliterators for the off chance that I might win against a noob that doesn't know how to play razorspam right. But, if I have to wait for Dark Angels and Eldar to have their turn, then it just means that, by the 'laws of codex creep', Chaos will be even more powerful later, and will be more suited for 6th edition.

Time will tell!

Scribe of Khorne
17-04-2012, 18:43
Even I would prefer for Chaos to be sooner than later! I have a whole painted Slaanesh army that's sitting on my desk gathering layer upon layer of dust because I refuse to play a spam of Plague Marines and Obliterators for the off chance that I might win against a noob that doesn't know how to play razorspam right. But, if I have to wait for Dark Angels and Eldar to have their turn, then it just means that, by the 'laws of codex creep', Chaos will be even more powerful later, and will be more suited for 6th edition.

Time will tell!

I see you know my pain...:(

Just have to keep waiting I guess. My DE are fun to pass the time with.

Chrisb3
17-04-2012, 18:43
After seeing so many alternate release schedules, am I right in thinking that "I heard from a good source" actually means "I guessed"?

Theocracity
17-04-2012, 18:55
3. A lot of people have been saying 'these rumors clash with other rumors'. That's like saying 'this ghost is clashing with this other ghost'. Not only can we not see the ghosts, but we're not sure if the ghosts even really exist. To dismiss one set of rumors simply because someone else said something else is very premature. All rumormongers, including myself, could be dead wrong, and I wouldn't be surprised, in all honesty, if we were ALL wrong in some large section of the rumors we've brought forth. GW has a strict policy on leaks for a reason (a reason that's lost to me in all honesty), so hearing anything that ends up being 100% true from ANYBODY is extremely rare.

When the game is a crapshoot, you play the odds. Hastings so far has the best track record and the support of other rumormongers; until he goes wrong I'll stick with his info.

drbored
17-04-2012, 19:08
I see you know my pain...:(

Just have to keep waiting I guess. My DE are fun to pass the time with.

I'm in the same boat. I'm slowly painting my DE army.. I hope to finish my first squad of Reaver Jetbikes this week!


After seeing so many alternate releae schedules, am I right in thinking that "I heard from a good source" actually means "I guessed"?

Sometimes I wonder too. There are a lot of people out there that are eager to wishlist for this and that. Typically, it's easy to see where rumors stop and wishlisting begins.


When the game is a crapshoot, you play the odds. Hastings so far has the best track record and the support of other rumormongers; until he goes wrong I'll stick with his info.

Touche, and I don't blame anybody that wants to go with that, but even a horse with the best record can sometimes come in last.

Harry
17-04-2012, 19:17
I know Harry originally said Eldar for the starter (but may have paired them with Chaos, not DA) but when Hastings claimed DA vs Chaos, he said not to bet against Hastings.

Will be interesting to see if Hastings was in fact wrong.


When the game is a crapshoot, you play the odds. Hastings so far has the best track record and the support of other rumormongers; until he goes wrong I'll stick with his info.

I bet against Hastings just once.... It cost me a fine chicken and mushroom pie.

Thats all I'm saying.


(Oh, I will say one other thing ... The 'autumn of flyers' thing was just a nod to stickmonkey ... I have never been sure of the date as I said in that thread....could be we will see something sooner .... could be just part of 6th Edition. It is difficult for me to work out what is going on based on small scraps of info. I don't have some super, secret, inside source of info).... I just know something is going on and posted my best guess).

Dreadnought05
17-04-2012, 19:25
Thanks for the rumours, OP. Definitely looking more and more like 6th is the edition of flyers - don't suppose there was any mention of a potential Hydra in a potential flyer splash release? :D

drbored
17-04-2012, 19:47
Thanks for the rumours, OP. Definitely looking more and more like 6th is the edition of flyers - don't suppose there was any mention of a potential Hydra in a potential flyer splash release? :D

Didn't get any specifics about that. I really just wanted to get as concrete of info as I could on the release schedule, since that seems to be the thing that people are arguing about the most right now. When I mentioned DA vs Chaos, my source shook his head and said 'no way'. Then he went off on a tangent about a flier release and seemed really excited about what he'd heard for that. The Hydra would fit in well with the fliers, that's for sure, but no specifics.. He did mention, simply, that a lot of fliers were starting to pile up.

Fable
17-04-2012, 20:07
This sounds like the rehash of an old rumor but twisted around.

Also, Hastings confirmed the "Eldar in the starter set" rumor started with him because he was leak testing among his own contacts. It appears the echoes of that falsehood have reverberated around again. I don't think it was hit intent to have the rumor hit the ground running like it did, but once it made its way to BoKs it grew legs and ran. Now that even BoKs has moved on the rumor just won't die.

otakuzoku
17-04-2012, 21:03
ok may sound a dumb question but is the army in the black reach box follow the foc/points of is it just a balanced army to make it a good intro to the game ?
i ask this because you just need 2 sides to play the game. so you could make a xeno alliance side vs a chaos allience or IOM allience. so you get as meny armies introduced to new players as posabel. and increase there uptake. you could end up with a fragile alliance of Tau and eldar (with a squad of Dark angels for good measure) vs a combined chaos force with traitor guard demons and CSM

JettyBoy
17-04-2012, 21:06
Sorry but I'm finding this hard to swallow, especially the "I talked to someone who knows" angle.

We've all encountered people who claim they're "in the know" but at the end of the day there just haven't been any rumours at all in the last couple of years on the "I heard it from someone I know" channel that have been any more than educated guesswork. The only difference between the people who post these second-hand rumours and the majority of the posters on this forum is that the former believe what they are told; the rest of us are rightly skeptical. People who really know what is hapenning in GWs release schedule are few and far between and none of them have been blabbing to third parties and letting them post the rumours.

Furthermore, looking at the actual text and style of the rumours with the constant disclaimers at the end of each post, the arguments from authority, appeals to "business logic" and the continuous elaboration of the details of the meeting with the "source" with more details being added each time, they are exactly like the posts made by "Tabitha" on DakkaDakka (http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/450/350475.page) a year ago who had everyone swallowing a bunch of totally fabricated and constantly evolving Necron rumours.

Even if it's not the same poster (although personally I suspect it is) I'm not even inclined to pass these rumours off as a case of gullibility, rather I think the OP is spinning a load of crock for attention and nothing more. I'm not opposed to encouraging people who genuinely believe they have information or insight but in this case I think there's an element of deliberate deception involved.

Ozybonza
17-04-2012, 21:16
I choose to believe the OP because I want it to be true.

ac4155
17-04-2012, 21:28
I choose to believe the OP because I want it to be true.

Same. This could finally be the start of the Eldar army I've wanted to do for years but kept it on the back burner.

Personaly, If its Marines Vs Eldar I'll more than likely pick it up, as it will give me a nice little rule book, more Marnes to add to my army and the foundations of the new Eldar I'd start.

If it was Marines vs marines I'd more than likely skip it, unless most of the box models were super awesome. If I did skip it I'd just pick up the small rule book and any special characters from eBay or something.

Starchild
17-04-2012, 21:30
Even if it's not the same poster (although personally I suspect it is) I'm not even inclined to pass these rumours off as a case of gullibility, rather I think the OP is spinning a load of crock for attention and nothing more. I'm not opposed to encouraging people who genuinely believe they have information or insight but in this case I think there's an element of deliberate deception involved.What evidence do you have to support this opinion?

JettyBoy
17-04-2012, 21:44
None, but there are strong similarities between Tabitha and DrBored in the posting style especially the constant disclaimers and the role that they seem to play in adding credibility to the poster (rather the rumour substance) and the elaboration of the meeting with the source.

And, as stated I'm not aware of cases of second-hand "a guy I know who has connections told me" source that has proven to be substantial within the last couple of years. If that did happen we would be getting a lot more advanced info than we actually are apart from the tried and tested sources.

Given that we know that there are always more attention seekers on the internet than there are genuine 40k rumour sources (or almost any other group), what evidence do you have that there's a shred of truth in the rumour?

DeeKay
17-04-2012, 21:53
Thanks go out to the OP. Any rumours are good rumours (or at least good for discussion!)

There is some credibility to rumours regarding Eldar vs Marines of any description. After all, GW released 3rd Ed with Marines vs Dark Eldar. Having said that, it seems highly unlikely that GW would release Marine models that could not be used in as wide an array of Marine armies as possible. Even the Black Reach kit doesn't have any specific Ultramarines insignia.

As for Chaos Marines not being anytime soon, I sincerely hope that rumour turns out to be wrong. As selfish as it may seem, I think CSM players have waited long enough for a book that didn't completely suck. Granted, there are others that are just as deserving. Eldar, BT, Tau, perhaps even Orks. Honestly though, I truely think CSM have the biggest problems regarding playability.

With regards,
Dan.

Vegeta365
17-04-2012, 22:02
1. Wow, I had no idea girls had such a love for Tyranids. But let's think about it for a moment from a purely stereotypical, mysoginistic, opinionated point of view. Tyranids look like bugs. Typically, girls don't like bugs, bugs are gross. Eldar are pretty, elegant, colorful warriors. Girls like things that are pretty, elegant, and colorful. I'm not saying that this is fact and that this is why Eldar are the 'girl-getters', but it's possible these reasons have something to do with my source's statement. I've yet to actually *find* any concrete data to support this, but since he's been working with GW since the 1980's, I'm loathe to dismiss my source's ideas on the chance it's just a big stereotype. I also have yet to see any written, concrete sales data going back 3-5 years for the sales of Eldar models. If we can set SoB aside (because really.. just.. really), it's easy to see that Eldar, along with Chaos and Tau at this point as they are the oldest armies (again, aside from SM variants), cannot be doing very well right now, or over the past 2 years.

2. For the past two years we've seen Xenos in the November slot. Necrons this past year, Dark Eldar before them... When did Tyranids get released, I can't quite remember. Anyway, that's where I'm getting the 'xenos season'. A lot of people seem to be under the impression that GW likes to sell Xenos during the fall, not because of any business sense, but because.. well, that's just where they've been putting them. I'm sure there are other business reasons we're not aware of.

3. A lot of people have been saying 'these rumors clash with other rumors'. That's like saying 'this ghost is clashing with this other ghost'. Not only can we not see the ghosts, but we're not sure if the ghosts even really exist. To dismiss one set of rumors simply because someone else said something else is very premature. All rumormongers, including myself, could be dead wrong, and I wouldn't be surprised, in all honesty, if we were ALL wrong in some large section of the rumors we've brought forth. GW has a strict policy on leaks for a reason (a reason that's lost to me in all honesty), so hearing anything that ends up being 100% true from ANYBODY is extremely rare.

A lot of times the only time you do get something that's mostly true is because the rumor world is saturated with all the different plans and ideas that could come forth. For example, one person says its going to be DA vs Chaos in the starter. Another says Chaos vs Eldar. Another says DA vs. Eldar. Another says DA vs. Tau. Another says Chaos vs. Tau! The only thing anybody can really agree on is that the next couple of armies to get updated are going to be Dark Angels, Eldar, Tau, and Chaos, probably over the next two years, but nobody knows for certain what's going to happen. It's just as likely that GW has released various leaks and rumors to purposefully throw everyone off and into a tizzy so that the final release is truly a surprise. Where does that leave the rumormongers? Well, one of them is going to be right, and it's possible that he/she will be right purely by CHANCE, all things considered. Then, that rumormonger will go on saying 'Oh look at me, my rumors were right, I must be the next big rumormonger!' and what happens next? They post some more rumors that end up being flat wrong the next time around.

4. To those that thanked the OP, you're welcome. I was really excited to ply my source for this information, and I couldn't wait to share it with you all. I wish I could have asked him more about Chaos and what that might entail, but I doubt he has insight on the nitty gritty details of the Codex development. The fact that I could get these suggestions were enough for me, as it illuminated what could be coming ahead in the next year.

Even I would prefer for Chaos to be sooner than later! I have a whole painted Slaanesh army that's sitting on my desk gathering layer upon layer of dust because I refuse to play a spam of Plague Marines and Obliterators for the off chance that I might win against a noob that doesn't know how to play razorspam right. But, if I have to wait for Dark Angels and Eldar to have their turn, then it just means that, by the 'laws of codex creep', Chaos will be even more powerful later, and will be more suited for 6th edition.

Time will tell!

I very rarely post information on here, but many that know me from pm's will know I am rarely wrong. I just popped on the forum to see this thread and think that whilst I am sure you're heart is in the right place, this information is 100% wrong and whilst the forum encourages rumours, this thread not being closed is encouraging simply wrong information to be posted and discussed that will misinform people. By commenting that you're source knows people in the know this goes to further my point.

Put simply, this information is all wrong! I would absolutely love Eldar to be in the box and a codex this year, but this is not the case. The box is 100% as has been discussed and whilst I rarely post information, I do not like to see the wrong information put out there giving strong sources etc which result in misinforming people.

Austinitor
17-04-2012, 22:06
Beyond that, it's always been Space Marines versus Xenos. Rogue Trader saw boxes of Space Marines paired with Space Orks. Second Edition was Black Templar and Dark Eldar. 3rd edition was Space Marines and Orks. 4th edition was Space Marines and Tyranids. 5th edition was Space Marines and Orks. (I may have gotten 2nd and 3rd mixed...) It's how they introduce players to the game.
I'm sorry, but for me, getting this stuff wrong really hurts your credibility.
Rogue Trader did not come in a box set; it was only a book, followed by a few supplements made up of collected White Dwarf articles. It baffles me how many people can't separate Rogue Trader from 2nd Edition.
2nd Edition was Space Marines (who didn't have that many chapter-specific rules yet; this changed later with the release of the first Codices, like Space Wolves, Ultramarines, and Angels of Death) vs. Orks
3rd Edition was (again) Space Marines vs. Dark Eldar.
4th Edition was (again) Space Marines vs. Tyranids.
5th Edition was (again) Space Marines vs. Orks (again).

JettyBoy
17-04-2012, 22:23
Just to add some evidence (per Starchild's request) to DrBored's lack of credibility; back again on Dakka (http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/30/443774.page) wyomingfox posted this:


As for Dr. Bored...I remember this quote from BOLS back in August: I highlighted some items of interest.


Dr. Bored wrote:
As we get towards 6th edition, some things are rumored to be changing. White Dwarf is rumored to be going back to what they had before, with more battle reports and painting how-tos and less advertisements. Sisters of Battle is the poster child for the 'White Dwarf Codex' which may be getting more full-on Codices in the future depending on popularity. One such example would be for the Chaos Legions Codex, which would have a core, and then White Dwarf additions for other Legions as the months progress.

Oh by the way, Chaos Legions by March 1012 and 6th edition by October 2012, which will feature Eldar as the poster child. Heavy Xenos influence for 6th edition, including the long-awaited Tau update.

Here's a doozy. Fluff changes. (prepare for heavy summary) We're moving on from the 41st millenium into the 42nd. Yup. Here's the rumor: mankind's days are really waning. They're heading down the crapper fast and xenos, especially Necrons, are coming into quite the threat. Well, mankind just doesn't have the power, and now Necrons are threatening Chaos, and the Chaos forces are like 'well wtf guyz'. So, Chaos has to fight across the galaxy against the enemies that mankind were fighting against, perhaps even allying with loyalist forces against a common foe. This will be expanded on in the coming Codices, including Necron and Chaos Legions, which should set up for the big fluff change in 6th edition. Some of the rest sounded more like wish, opinion, and extrapolation; Void Dragon coming up, Primarchs coming back, Emperor's descendants being found by an unnamed portion of the Imperium in order to fight the Void Dragon, etc etc...

Now here are some other things that are founded in reality: Matt Ward? Gone. Don't expect him to be writing any more Codices. His baby was 5th edition, and now that 5th edition is up, Ward is done. Board Members for GW? 3 of the old geezers gone. Company-wide changes. Everything since Tyranids? Made for 6th edition.

Speaking of 6th edition again, the main rulebook that comes out is supposed to be 'the book to rule all books'. It'll have ways to include Superheavies and rules for Fliers in regular games, and should errata a lot of rules in Apocalypse, past FAQ's, and past Codices to make it all fit together. It'll have updated stuff for Planetstrike, Cities of Death, etc, perhaps even to make room for more expansions in the future.

Ugh. The person I heard this from is a good friend and reliable source, and the person *he* got this information from is an unnamed employee of a certain facet of our favorite gaming company that deals with items made out of a material that is notorious for melting if exposed to direct sunlight and heat. By the way, all those rule sets that Forgeworld has been making? They may suddenly find themselves approved for regular games.

So if that post was true then DrBored actually had this information (along with a lot of wrong information) eight months ago despite the fact that he seems to be claiming that his source was a recent conversation with several specific references to the "Autumn of Fliers".

At this point I'm going to stop claiming that he might be dishonest.

drbored
17-04-2012, 22:24
None, but there are strong similarities between Tabitha and DrBored in the posting style especially the constant disclaimers and the role that they seem to play in adding credibility to the poster (rather the rumour substance) and the elaboration of the meeting with the source.

And, as stated I'm not aware of cases of second-hand "a guy I know who has connections told me" source that has proven to be substantial within the last couple of years. If that did happen we would be getting a lot more advanced info than we actually are apart from the tried and tested sources.

Given that we know that there are always more attention seekers on the internet than there are genuine 40k rumour sources (or almost any other group), what evidence do you have that there's a shred of truth in the rumour?

My online name is exclusively DrBored. I think you're grabbing at straws on that one there bub. You'll just have to take my word for it. Also, I wouldn't post it if I heard it from some red shirt or someone that pretends to be best buds with Matt Ward. If you don't believe it, fine, but guess what? Rumors seldom have a single shred of truth until they're proven right or wrong. Time will tell.


I very rarely post information on here, but many that know me from pm's will know I am rarely wrong. I just popped on the forum to see this thread and think that whilst I am sure you're heart is in the right place, this information is 100% wrong and whilst the forum encourages rumours, this thread not being closed is encouraging simply wrong information to be posted and discussed that will misinform people. By commenting that you're source knows people in the know this goes to further my point.

Put simply, this information is all wrong! I would absolutely love Eldar to be in the box and a codex this year, but this is not the case. The box is 100% as has been discussed and whilst I rarely post information, I do not like to see the wrong information put out there giving strong sources etc which result in misinforming people.

I would like to see your proof that disclaims everything I've said as 100% wrong. Please show me you shaking hands with the GW CEO with the 6th edition starter box in your hands. I'm posting a rumor that I heard from a person I trust who has strong ties to GW and Forgeworld. Take it or leave it, but seeing as this is a *rumor* discussion thread, I think it's premature to declare absolutes about what is right and wrong.

I for one have no idea of who you are or where you get your information. Similarly, you have no idea who I am and where I get my information. Your '100% wrong' statement is just as credible as my rumors posted here :P That's just the nature of the rumors forums and topics. We'll see who is right.


I'm sorry, but for me, getting this stuff wrong really hurts your credibility.
Rogue Trader did not come in a box set; it was only a book, followed by a few supplements made up of collected White Dwarf articles. It baffles me how many people can't separate Rogue Trader from 2nd Edition.
2nd Edition was Space Marines (who didn't have that many chapter-specific rules yet; this changed later with the release of the first Codices, like Space Wolves, Ultramarines, and Angels of Death) vs. Orks
3rd Edition was (again) Space Marines vs. Dark Eldar.
4th Edition was (again) Space Marines vs. Tyranids.
5th Edition was (again) Space Marines vs. Orks (again).

For this I apologize! I had heard that Rogue Trader came with two supplemental box sets, one being Space Marines, the other being Space Orks, so I had assumed that, when Rogue Trader started off, it was Space Marines vs. Orks. I also had a feeling that I got the 2nd and 3rd edition sets backwards, and admitted that. Also, the 3rd edition featured Black Templar as the chapter on the starter box.

The fact of the matter stands. It's always been Space Marines versus xenos.

Anyway, thanks for your replies and great work at keeping the discussion interesting! We've had all sorts of responses to this, from 'You're totally wrong' to 'Yep, you're totally right' to 'some of this is wrong but some of this is right'.

One thing a lot of people seem to be forgetting is that this is a rumor. A rumor that I posted based on information given to me by a man with a lot of connections in GW and Forgeworld. It's just as likely that he's fed me misinformation on behalf of GW, and I'm just a puppet in that design, but what he's told me rings with sense, whereas all this ******** of 'DA vs. Chaos' doesn't make any.

We'll see who is right and wrong over the next two months I think.

Edit:



Just to add some evidence (per Starchild's request) to DrBored's lack of credibility; back again on Dakka (http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/30/443774.page) wyomingfox posted this:



So if that post was true then DrBored actually had this information (along with a lot of wrong information) eight months ago despite the fact that he seems to be claiming that his source was a recent conversation with several specific references to the "Autumn of Fliers".

At this point I'm going to stop claiming that he might be dishonest.

I was wondering if those things would crop up. Most of the information I got for those was from a guy who knew a guy who knew a guy. I didn't believe half of it, and repeatedly said to take a lot of salt with all that stuff.

The information I presented last night was from a conversation I had *that day* with a source who was not the same man as the one that gave me all that previous information. If you don't believe me, oh well, I can't make you. But, that's rumors for you. Until it happens, nobody will know. All I can say is that, on my scout's honor, I am not trying to deliberately be misleading or attention-grabbing. I wouldn't have posted if I didn't think there was substance to post.

Dryaktylus
17-04-2012, 22:30
I'm sorry, but for me, getting this stuff wrong really hurts your credibility.
Rogue Trader did not come in a box set; it was only a book, followed by a few supplements made up of collected White Dwarf articles. It baffles me how many people can't separate Rogue Trader from 2nd Edition.


Maybe he meant the boxes "Space Marine Strike Force" and "Space Ork Raiders" and mixed up second and third edition (as he suggested)?

Well, all the combinations of DA, Chaos and Eldar sound a bit strange... but time will tell.

REDEATH
17-04-2012, 22:45
I wish GW would for a limited run (at least 1 year for the 25th anniversary) make a mix and match starter set that was mail order only where they had plastics set aside for each race and you pick the two races you want then see which proves to be the top 4 races picked and keep those (Being top 2 good and top 2 evil)

But I refuse to believe the substance of this rumor he's just trying to **** off all the CSM fan waiting on Chaos Legions.

Asher
17-04-2012, 22:46
Well, Warseer has clinged to rumor posters with questionable records in the past (and present), so why not give drbored a chance before damning him to hell? It's not long until june anyway.

Starchild
17-04-2012, 22:49
I just want to tone down the attitude that caused sources such as Scryer in the Darkness to cease sharing information. Like drbored says we don't have much longer to see what info is right, wrong, or simply off in timing.

Asher
17-04-2012, 22:56
I just want to tone down the attitude that caused sources such as Scryer in the Darkness to cease sharing information.

To be fair, it was not his credibility that put people off, but much rather his wanna-be-mod attitude.


Like drbored says we don't have much longer to see what info is right, wrong, or simply off in timing.

Very much agreed.

JettyBoy
17-04-2012, 22:58
A quick spot the difference competition before bed!



...A lot of falsified nonsense...
Ugh. The person I heard this from is a good friend and reliable source, and the person *he* got this information from is an unnamed employee of a certain facet of our favorite gaming company that deals with items made out of a material that is notorious for melting if exposed to direct sunlight and heat. ...

I was wondering if those things would crop up. Most of the information I got for those was from a guy who knew a guy who knew a guy. I didn't believe half of it, and repeatedly said to take a lot of salt with all that stuff.

As for my source, of course I can't reveal him. It'd be a plain disservice to his trust. What I can say is that he is a wealth of knowledge about all things GW, Forgeworld, and Black Library, and has many contacts therein (and I don't mean GW store managers. I mean Codex and BL authors, and GW and Forgeworld sculptors).
I would be very surprised if I was proved wrong by the passage of time and the developments therein, but such is the nature of the future. Take it or leave it, but I'm confident that you shouldn't have to take too much salt with this.

The information I presented last night was from a conversation I had *that day* with a source who was not the same man as the one that gave me all that previous information. If you don't believe me, oh well, I can't make you. But, that's rumors for you. Until it happens, nobody will know. All I can say is that, on my scout's honor, I am not trying to deliberately be misleading or attention-grabbing. I wouldn't have posted if I didn't think there was substance to post.

... and a final thought for the day...


After all, aren't a large percent of rumormongers eventually glaringly wrong in their predictions anyway? Time will tell.

Pedantically the false rumour mongers are.

Spell_of_Destruction
17-04-2012, 23:06
No disrespect to the OP but I'll eat my hat if these rumours are true (although I'll be delighted to do so!).

I'm mostly just a bit peeved with GW that they have allowed us to reach a stage where numerous factions (DA, CSM, Tau, Eldar) feel that their codex redo is long overdue. Codex creep may have always existed but some of the 5th ed codeces feel like they were designed for a completely different game.

drbored
17-04-2012, 23:13
You really must like me JettyBoy, I'm flattered. ;3

The previous rumors, the ones I posted months ago, I suggested to take salt with.

These new ones I'm confident are right. You don't have to be confident. Believe in me who believes in you. Yours is a keyboard that will pierce the heavens!

And of course, I've said again and again that I could be dead wrong. Dead wrong. I could be wrong wrong wrong. I'll be the first to admit it. I'll be the first to admit that my brain may interpret things differently, that some sound may have come out of someone's mouth to make me hear something incorrectly, that my fingers may be typing one thing while my brain thinks of another, and that every single rumor that I've posted is wrong. I'm ok with that!

I'm not really ok with being attacked and told that I'm someone else from some other forum that happens to use business logic like I do. (Hint: Business Logic is usually pretty awesome, because it means people make more money, and businesspeople... like employees of game companies... like to make money). Your quote-by-quote looks very convincing when taken out of *context*. When put back into context and in order, there's nothing that I've said that contradicts itself within the same set of rumors or within the same topic.

Go ahead and look for it though. I'm sure that'll be a fun little game for you to play. And then I'll applaud you for wasting a lot of time.

Because at the end of the day.. they're rumors. Take them or leave them.

Time will tell.

Ebon
18-04-2012, 00:14
With no disrespect intended to the OP, Marines and Chaos seem more likely to me. Previous starter sets in both WFB and 40k have always been clear-cut good guys versus bad guys (with the exception of WFB's Brets/Lizardmen starter). Marines of some sort are obviously going to be in the box and take the good guy role but Eldar are too enigmatic to be the bad guys (and Tau are probably the closest 40k has to outright good guys) so Chaos of some sort seems more likely.

That said, GW seems to take a perverse delight in screwing logic at every turn.

drbored
18-04-2012, 00:19
With no disrespect intended to the OP, Marines and Chaos seem more likely to me. Previous starter sets in both WFB and 40k have always been clear-cut good guys versus bad guys (with the exception of WFB's Brets/Lizardmen starter). Marines of some sort are obviously going to be in the box and take the good guy role but Eldar are too enigmatic to be the bad guys (and Tau are probably the closest 40k has to outright good guys) so Chaos of some sort seems more likely.

That said, GW seems to take a perverse delight in screwing logic at every turn.

The more I think about it, the more you're right. It's always been clear who the good guy and bad guy is in the starter box, Ultramarines tending to take the role of good guy super powered soldiers with Orks and Tyranids as the popular bad guy.

Even though it contradicts my own rumor, what if we're all wrong and it's Chaos vs. Eldar? Eldar are enigmatic, but they're clean and colorful enough to be a good guy, and Chaos is clearly a bad guy... DA vs. Chaos could still eventually be the thing we get, but that just doesn't ring right.

Ebon
18-04-2012, 00:26
Even though it contradicts my own rumor, what if we're all wrong and it's Chaos vs. Eldar? Eldar are enigmatic, but they're clean and colorful enough to be a good guy, and Chaos is clearly a bad guy... DA vs. Chaos could still eventually be the thing we get, but that just doesn't ring right.

I'd love an Eldar/Chaos starter but I'd tend to think GW will put Marines in there simply because Marines are the posterboys for 40k. Marines get the most frequent updates, I seem to remember they're the most steady sellers and GW even has a Marine statue outside their headquarters. So while it would be nice to have an Eldar/Chaos starter (and Eldar are clear-cut good guys against Chaos), it'd be a really strange step for GW to exclude Marines from the starter.

Having said that, see previous comment about GW and logic.

drbored
18-04-2012, 00:33
I'd love an Eldar/Chaos starter but I'd tend to think GW will put Marines in there simply because Marines are the posterboys for 40k. Marines get the most frequent updates, I seem to remember they're the most steady sellers and GW even has a Marine statue outside their headquarters. So while it would be nice to have an Eldar/Chaos starter (and Eldar are clear-cut good guys against Chaos), it'd be a really strange step for GW to exclude Marines from the starter.

Having said that, see previous comment about GW and logic.

Indeed. It'd be quite the step for them to take, but not necessarily a farfetched one. Eldar and Chaos have been at each other's throats for numerous battles. Ulthwe's Craftworld exists right outside the Eye of Terror, and they fight constantly against Chaos. The two are meant for each other in so many ways.

I'm not as well versed in Dark Angels fluff.. have there been iconic DA vs Eldar battles?

Beppo1234
18-04-2012, 00:46
I'd love an Eldar/Chaos starter but I'd tend to think GW will put Marines in there simply because Marines are the posterboys for 40k. Marines get the most frequent updates, I seem to remember they're the most steady sellers and GW even has a Marine statue outside their headquarters. So while it would be nice to have an Eldar/Chaos starter (and Eldar are clear-cut good guys against Chaos), it'd be a really strange step for GW to exclude Marines from the starter.

Having said that, see previous comment about GW and logic.

it's not all about poster boys. They have to put a 'good guys' human marine (that's where posterboys come in) faction in the starter box. That's just obvious. Bad humans vs. aliens just doesn't work in my mind... unless you are already deep into the hobby. But starters are not primarily for the initiated, but for new customers.

DeviLution
18-04-2012, 01:25
Can we please stop shooting the messengers, people?

All rumors are created equal, and remain equal, until the point when the topics of those rumors are released, at which point they are no longer rumors. Savaging people over rumors is rather like shooting kids because they might grow up to be bastards - which is total anarchistic sadism for little or no reason, and reminds me of the guy on trial on Norway, who's not someone you should emulate.

In short, he who shoots the messengers, soon will have NO messengers.

The Dude
18-04-2012, 01:51
To be fair, it was not his credibility that put people off, but much rather his wanna-be-mod attitude.

To be fair, polite reminders to stay on topic, or remember the posting guidelines are no reason to vilify a poster, and as an ACTUAL mod, I encourage the community to be more aware of these rules and not be afraid to remind others of them from time to time. Of course, if that fails, make sure you use the report button ;)

I believe Jettyboy has made his point, and I suggest we all take from that what we will and move on.

If things get out of hand here, I will not hesitate to shut the thread.

The Dude
The Warseer Inquisition

Brotheroracle
18-04-2012, 02:14
I think Chaos vrs Eldar is plausible, fantasy doesn't seem to use a particular "poster boy" and they sell the crap outa starter sets. Why? Because it doesn't really matter who's in the starter set, people will buy it for the value. people will buy it because they are really are starting the game, and people will buy it to sell on ebay.

Fantasy starters (that I can remember)
5th: Bretonians vrs Lizardmen
6th: Empire vrs Orcs
7th: Dwarfs vrs Goblins
8th: High elves vrs Skaven

Sure the starters have traditionally been Space Marine vrs in 40k, but I think it would be a smart move to use two of the less played armies in a starter because everyone already has a marine army, or will if they play 40k long enough anyway.

I mean we don't have to bash the OP even IF he is making it up, because:
1. Its rude.
2. If he is just making it up then he's really just after attention and thus trolling, therefor thrives on the negative comments.
3. He/she might not be making it up.

So I guess I'm saying if you don't have anything nice to say then don't say anything at all.

Oh and June will tell.

Sildani
18-04-2012, 02:19
About GW needing human heroes in the starter - does that not apply to WFB? I was shocked that there was no human race in Island of Blood - yet there was High Elves and Skaven. Was there a precedent for non-humans in the starter? For if not, that might be a sign that GW is willing to reevaluate that for the 40K starter.

I'd love for the Eldar to be a starter army, they're one of the oldest armies and I say it's time for them to have some long-lasting love from GW. Being the poster children for a few years would qualify. GW, if you're reading this, are indeed putting Eldar in the starter, and want to sell a metric ton of them: put the new jetbike in there exclusively.

Starchild
18-04-2012, 02:21
I'm not as well versed in Dark Angels fluff.. have there been iconic DA vs Eldar battles?No, there have been no major conflicts between DA and Eldar mentioned in the background. However some of the 2nd edition Imperial codices listed which armies could be included as allies. Noticably absent from the DA ally list was Eldar. However UMs, SWs, and BAs could ally with Eldar. DA could only ally with Imperial Guard if no abhumans (ratlings or ogryns) were taken.

To sum up, in the old background DA hate aliens and mutants more than any other chapter. In the current background however this attitude is pretty much adopted by all SMs.

This brings me to my point... while I'm not discounting drbored's rumour, DA are more likely to be fighting chaos because that is their primary target in their quest to hunt the Fallen. On the other hand, GW could easily offer a very compelling reason for DAs and Craftworld Eldar to fight, such as how they pitted HEs vs. Skaven in the Island of Blood.

Spell_of_Destruction
18-04-2012, 02:32
Sildani: I don't think the same rules apply in WHFB as the game doesn't really have a poster boy faction in the same way as 40k (in fact High Elves are probably the closest). Remember that the Skull Pass set was Dwarves vs O&G.

DA vs Eldar seems more plausible to me than Chaos v Eldar even if the latter is more satisfying from a fluff perspective. The starter sets are primarily aimed at new players and Space Marines have been the cash cow for years so I can't see GW dropping them from a set which will be the first purchase most newcomers make.

Ultimately though it's the strength of the DA v Chaos rumours from Harry and Hastings which make me doubt this. It would take something pretty strong to convince me otherwise.

Ivellis
18-04-2012, 03:12
I hope the starter set will be DA vs. Chaos, I was really looking forward to buying one, kitbashing it and having a nice start to a Fallen army.

Still, Eldar would be nice as well, as they are my main army.

jspyd3rx
18-04-2012, 03:54
The more I read these threads everyday the more I realize we have no idea what's coming. Truly believe we will be sideswiped by next codex release.

eldargal
18-04-2012, 06:24
I don't need to believe the word of senior GW staff because someone on the internet says so? Right-ho. I'm not saying Eldar are a best seller right now, but I do not think it is at all credible that they are selling worse than SoB (all metal) or Tau. This is also lrgely irrelevelt, while I think the reasning behind the rumours smacks of fan speculation, the fact remains it also contradicts some very reliable rumours which is the more compelling reason for being sceptical. Happy to be wrong, even about Eldar sale if it gets them a revamp.

Whether or not you are lead to believe it isn't the point. They have just sold poorly the last 18 months. Most Eldar players have everything, and have had it for a long time. Their "update" before 5th didn't add a whole lot. And the Tyranids saw massive sales spikes with the recent love they received, and are a swarm army which virtually guarantees a continuous need for buying. 60 gaunts isn't enough. 5-10 of an Aspect Warrior is plenty, however.

Gorbad Ironclaw
18-04-2012, 06:57
About GW needing human heroes in the starter - does that not apply to WFB? I was shocked that there was no human race in Island of Blood - yet there was High Elves and Skaven. Was there a precedent for non-humans in the starter? For if not, that might be a sign that GW is willing to reevaluate that for the 40K starter.

4th Edition Warhammer came with High Elves and Goblins and 7th Edition came with Dwarves and Goblins. Humans have only been in two of the starter boxes, 5th edition in the form of Bretonians (paired with Lizardmen, both new armies, at least in that form) and 6th edition where it was Empire paired with Orcs. If you were to go on a trend for Warhammer it would be for greenskins to be in the starter box, not humans. But then, the armies and their distribution and popularity is so different between Warhammer and 40k that I don't think you can take anything meaningful from comparing the two.

In 40k it makes perfect sense to make at least one of the sides include some power armour simply because it's the most iconic symbol of 40k and with a little conversion those models can be used in many different armies(half the available codex books?). It also means there is a huge market for the starter boxes with existing players if they include something nice power armoured in there. The real question I think is if the "other" army is determined by what the production schedual looks like and what projects would fit into that timing or whatever the production schedual is altered to fit in whatever army they want in the starter set. Possibly a bit of both. Anyway, we will know soon enough.

Cheexsta
18-04-2012, 07:46
I'll be very interested to see how this pans out. I play Chaos so of course want them out sooner rather than later (and I'm sure my friends are sick of my whining, haha), but IMHO Eldar are one of the codices that severely needs an update, and I've found myself wondering about the direction GW would go with them lately.

Thanks for the info, drbored. It's gutsy posting a rumour contrary to those already put out by reputable rumourmongers, and while I'm more likely to put my faith in Hastings, it's only a matter of months before we really see what will happen.

gunmnky
18-04-2012, 08:05
Honestly, in my 16 or so years of playing, I've seen girls play Tyranids, Nurgle, and ocassionaly tzeentch. One played pink lizard men, but that's beside the point. Female players of 40k are so rare that I find it hard to believe GW would cater to them. They just couldn't justify the microscopic increase in revenue over catering to what the male demographic wants. Is that Eldar? I dunno. I haven't seen a lot of people playing them recently, but a starter set is a way to help sell an army that has low numbers.

As for the starter set being unbalanced, when has it ever favored the xenos? 3rd edition gave dark eldar 1 splinter cannon and 20 warriors. Space marines got a tactical squad and land speeder. Battle for macragge gave tyranid players 6 genestealers and 10 gaunts vs a tactical squad with flamer and missile launcher (that wasn't even playable, as the gaunts would just scamper into cover and hide). Finally, assault on black reach saw a tactical squad, a captain, 5 terminators, and a dreadnought vs 5 basic nobz, a warboss, 3 deathcoptas, and a handfull of boyz. The ork's only hope was to take out the dreadnought with the deathcoptas before they were shot down.

Putting an eldar race into a starter set wouldn't be unlikely. Unbalanced, sure. I can't see them putting anything other than guardians and MAYBE wraithgaurd or banshees and striking scorpions in the box.

I don't see an issue with 2 power armor forces in the starter set. If you really want to try to convert those models to chaos/dark angels (I'm sure they're going to be substantially different so that noobs can tell them apart instantly) you're looking at a lot of work and 3 starter sets. That's assuming you are getting dreadnoughts and terminators. And then it's only good if you're converting to chaos, otherwise it would be 6 elite choices. But now you don't have any heavy vehicles, fast attack, assault, transports, etc. No paint, no codex etc etc.

In other words, you're paying $300+ for a sandbagged army and still need to pay for the modelling and gaming supplies.

Now, as far as DA being out in May/June, I don't know. That's a very small window, but there isn't a lot to do with the army. So far, there are only 2 weak rumors about different kits, and more chaplains which means it's entirely possible that there is nothing in the codex that requires new models. This means a new rule book and some finecast releases, and maybe a reboxing of the old DA/Ravenwing sprues. I can definitely see this fitting nicely into a one month window to generate revenue before 6th ed, and then after it (Hey, look, you can buy the starter, a codex, a paint set, and this battleforce to round it out!). Furthermore, they can use it to ramp up sales of marine models that are already on the shelf. Alternatively, they could push any wave of new DA models until the end of summer/fall.

But it's now April 18th, so if nothing surfaces in 30 days, it's all bunk.

librerian_samae
18-04-2012, 08:33
All I can say say is thanks for sharing OP, as for one thing right or wrong were going to find out soon and two it's nice to see some good old fashioned uncertainty and discussion going on, rather than months of nothing to talk about then BAM! one week before preorders and leaked pics from white dwarf.
It's nice to have something to talk about, even if it may or may not be totally accurate.

P.S. My moneys on the pie man and hastings.

SunTzu
18-04-2012, 09:53
Everything I have heard says Dark Angels and Chaos in the box... Chaos that "look a bit like Catachans in terms of how muscley they are, only not quite so ridiculous". ie. it's Traitor Guard or Chaos Cultists or something along those lines, not power armour (unless perhaps there's a couple of Chaos Marines as leaders, not sure).

If it turns out to be Eldar in the box, I'll eat a tin of dog food. (I don't outright state it's impossible, but I would be... very surprised).

otakuzoku
18-04-2012, 10:43
i know that space marines are the poster boy for 40k. but there so well known now that i could think of a list a good reason NOT to have them. the main reason being over saturation. the main advantage in having xeno vs chaos is that you can bump the sales of other armies now via introducing players to them in the low cost starter. plus that way if people want to play marines GW will make more money from them because if there not in the starter set people will have to buy the full price boxes of the best selling range !

Beppo1234
18-04-2012, 10:54
Everything I have heard says Dark Angels and Chaos in the box... Chaos that "look a bit like Catachans in terms of how muscley they are, only not quite so ridiculous". ie. it's Traitor Guard or Chaos Cultists or something along those lines, not power armour (unless perhaps there's a couple of Chaos Marines as leaders, not sure).

If it turns out to be Eldar in the box, I'll eat a tin of dog food. (I don't outright state it's impossible, but I would be... very surprised).

if it does turn out to be Eldar, will you post said video of dog food consumption?

Kaelarr
18-04-2012, 11:29
I very rarely post information on here, but many that know me from pm's will know I am rarely wrong. I just popped on the forum to see this thread and think that whilst I am sure you're heart is in the right place, this information is 100% wrong and whilst the forum encourages rumours, this thread not being closed is encouraging simply wrong information to be posted and discussed that will misinform people. By commenting that you're source knows people in the know this goes to further my point.

Put simply, this information is all wrong! I would absolutely love Eldar to be in the box and a codex this year, but this is not the case. The box is 100% as has been discussed and whilst I rarely post information, I do not like to see the wrong information put out there giving strong sources etc which result in misinforming people.

Vegeta365 is right, the only correct information in this thread is that its DA in the starter box.

Kaelarr
18-04-2012, 11:30
Everything I have heard says Dark Angels and Chaos in the box... Chaos that "look a bit like Catachans in terms of how muscley they are, only not quite so ridiculous". ie. it's Traitor Guard or Chaos Cultists or something along those lines, not power armour (unless perhaps there's a couple of Chaos Marines as leaders, not sure).

If it turns out to be Eldar in the box, I'll eat a tin of dog food. (I don't outright state it's impossible, but I would be... very surprised).

Cultists indeed.... but thats not all.... ;)

Scammel
18-04-2012, 11:31
Chosen and a Dread? Or are you referring to other human troops?

Eldoriath
18-04-2012, 11:37
Even if I hold these rumours as "weaker" then Hastings and the pie mans rumours I still enjoy hearing more rumours as long as they are not complete imaginations of a trolling mind.

And that's just the thing with rumours: They are rumours, not solid facts. And in any case june is close by so we will find out soon enough what is true and what ain't =)

SunTzu
18-04-2012, 11:39
if it does turn out to be Eldar, will you post said video of dog food consumption?

Yes.

Words for the word god.

steevn
18-04-2012, 12:08
stickmonkey said no dark angels before 6th in the dark angel thread... so what are we getting in may/june?

Starchild
18-04-2012, 12:08
Cultists indeed.... but thats not all.... ;)This goes back to what I said earlier about balanced sides in the 40k starter sets. Obviously DA can eat chaos cultists with their morning tea & biscuits and ask for second helpings. :skull: No matter what actually ends up in the next starter box, it will be the scenarios in the mission book that are the balancing factor. If indeed a mission book is included, and Kaelarr is right, I'd expect that cultists can be recycled in most of the missions.

That said, what if both Hastings/Harry +++and+++ drbored are correct and there will be *two* starter sets for 40k 6th edition each with completely different armies? Now that would be interesting...

mingnz
18-04-2012, 12:14
DA/Eldar?? I though was DA/Chaos

Danjester
18-04-2012, 12:43
I still believe that the starter will be DA Vs Chaos/Fallen. Sorry to those of you betting on Tau or Eldar but I hope you're wrong. I wonder if GW might take a leaf out of PP's book and maybe speed up their release schedule.

Imagine if they start to push out codexes, and the lion's share of accompanying kits, right from the start of 6th ed? Get the momentum going early, rather than the previous drip drip drip of releases.

My thinking follows the long standing rumours that A) the starter is DA/Chaos and B) the DA and Chaos codexes have been in progress for some time.

Mirbeau
18-04-2012, 15:05
I wouldn't get your hopes raised on seeing more than one 40k book this year, if that - which may not corespond with the starter box's contents.

There's a few waves of wfb miniatures, and some 40k, the rule book solo in the summer, the starter box september, and the hobbit releases from november. An awful lot to fit in really.

Kaelarr
18-04-2012, 15:20
I wouldn't get your hopes raised on seeing more than one 40k book this year, if that - which may not corespond with the starter box's contents.

There's a few waves of wfb miniatures, and some 40k, the rule book solo in the summer, the starter box september, and the hobbit releases from november. An awful lot to fit in really.

3 codex's are set to drop this year, including the 2 starter forces books. plus there are 2 40k waves in May. Also expect to see a lot of 40k based realeases July - September. The Hobbit will be the big Autumn push, doesnt take any rumours really to work that out! But its not the Christmas release ;)

Poncho160
18-04-2012, 15:33
If there are cultists in the starter box, then where are the rules for them going to be? I dont think GW has ever released a starter box (either for 40K or fantasy), which had minatures inside, that didnt have an accompanying Codex or Army book.


And whilst the rules could be included in the box set, I do not think that it would be best practice to produce minatures with that had to be ad-hoced into a Codex.

Starchild
18-04-2012, 15:52
If there are cultists in the starter box, then where are the rules for them going to be? I dont think GW has ever released a starter box (either for 40K or fantasy), which had minatures inside, that didnt have an accompanying Codex or Army book.


And whilst the rules could be included in the box set, I do not think that it would be best practice to produce minatures with that had to be ad-hoced into a Codex.Model profiles and weapon stats are always included in the starter set booklet(s). What would be a bit odd is having to wait for a chaos codex to use cultists officially.

ChrisMurray
18-04-2012, 15:56
WD added the night spinner to the Eldar codex, they could do the same with the Cultists (as well as including the rules in the boxset).

Poncho160
18-04-2012, 16:06
I understand the above two posts, but it just seems a very odd way of doing it. I definetly think there is a surprise, something that we havent heard of yet, in store in the upcoming months. I personally cant wait!!!!

Kaelarr
18-04-2012, 16:16
Its not a Chaos codex :P

Starchild
18-04-2012, 16:21
Its not a Chaos codex :PYou know what I meant. A chaos-affiliated codex. :D

Kaldanesh
18-04-2012, 16:33
Its not a Chaos codex :P

By this u mean not to expect a chaos codex in next few months or this year? I appreciate your contributions, it gives us something to get excited about. This summers sounds as though it should be excellent if what you say holds true. Any clues as to what the two 40k waves in May will be. It seems Necrons seems likely but what else. Man I'm curious!!

Avian
18-04-2012, 16:42
If there are cultists in the starter box, then where are the rules for them going to be? I dont think GW has ever released a starter box (either for 40K or fantasy), which had minatures inside, that didnt have an accompanying Codex or Army book.


And whilst the rules could be included in the box set, I do not think that it would be best practice to produce minatures with that had to be ad-hoced into a Codex.
Well, that pilot guy from Battle for Macragge didn't have rules, but then that was only one guy.

Kaelarr
18-04-2012, 16:47
By that I meant that the Chaos Codex isnt a surprise...

Also with what Avian just said, Think of 4th edition, Dark Eldar didnt have a codex for about 2 months after the starter box came out. Theres plenty of other chaosy goodness in the box aside from cultists.... I doubt a lack of rules for the month or 2 before the book will effect anybody that badly.

SunTzu
18-04-2012, 17:01
Cultists "and some other stuff" is all I've ever been told (apart from a vague memory of a hint of a Chaos Marine (or squad?) leading the force which I might be misremembering anyway), I'm curious what the "other stuff" might be. Possessed, daemons, vehicles, daemon engines...?

brassangel
18-04-2012, 17:15
By that I meant that the Chaos Codex isnt a surprise...

Also with what Avian just said, Think of 4th edition, Dark Eldar didnt have a codex for about 2 months after the starter box came out. Theres plenty of other chaosy goodness in the box aside from cultists.... I doubt a lack of rules for the month or 2 before the book will effect anybody that badly.

Wasn't that 3rd edition? Also, basic rules for DE were in that rulebook, weren't they? I thought the 3rd edition rulebook had a basic outline of each army towards the back, if I'm not mistaken.

Starchild
18-04-2012, 17:17
By that I meant that the Chaos Codex isnt a surprise...

Also with what Avian just said, Think of 4th edition, Dark Eldar didnt have a codex for about 2 months after the starter box came out. Theres plenty of other chaosy goodness in the box aside from cultists.... I doubt a lack of rules for the month or 2 before the book will effect anybody that badly.hmmm well that's true. I remember wanting to start Dark Eldar while waiting for their first codex to come out. I'm so glad I stuck with my other armies... :evilgrin:

It sounds like the new codex might be going back to the Realm of Chaos / 3.5 roots if cultists are present.

But a part of me still wants drbored to be right. :P

althathir
18-04-2012, 17:19
Wasn't that 3rd edition? Also, basic rules for DE were in that rulebook, weren't they? I thought the 3rd edition rulebook had a basic outline of each army towards the back, if I'm not mistaken.

Yeah the second edition books weren't legal, so most armies played out of the back of the book. I started my eldar during that phase of the game. What i really miss is they used to have a lot more, limited time battleforce style packages.

Kaldanesh
18-04-2012, 17:26
By that I meant that the Chaos Codex isnt a surprise......

....I doubt a lack of rules for the month or 2 before the book will effect anybody that badly.

You just made my day. And I'm sure a lot of others as well. I don't suppose you want to give us some hints at some of these surprises....

Hokiecow
18-04-2012, 17:51
Everything said has already been said by Hastings almost 3 months ago in the Re: Rumors from BoK-Release schedule (http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?331538-Rumors-from-BoK-Release-schedule&p=6061636&viewfull=1#post6061636) thread.

75hastings69:
"Having re-read this thread I want to point out that I am only confirming the starter as DA vs chaos NOT the DA & CSM codex release dates."

"Plastic chaos raptors are for a "slightly" later release

The cultists/renegades post was me, it's just I'm nit 100% sure what their proper name is, that being said I'm almost certain I've got it right."

"I'm also willing to add (and you'll need to forgive my weak 40k fu here) that the CSM in the starter are Chosen? (hope that's the right name - 40k really isn't my thing!!)"
"6th starter does indeed feature DA and the forces of chaos, including a nice plastic chaos dread"

AND
"The next 40k releases are :- 'nids, SW, necrons (all models only no codex)"
So far Nids and SW are down, Necrons are expected next month.

So far Hastings has been spot.

Darnok
18-04-2012, 17:53
I like it how despite the OP seemingly being all wrong, that some more solid news have surfaced over the course of this thread. Thanks, and keep it coming!

drbored
18-04-2012, 18:03
I like how everyone keeps saying i'm 100% wrong... but I also have in here that 6th edition is dropping there in the summer. If I'm 100% wrong on everything I've posted, then when is 6th edition coming, hm?

Absolutes are a pet peeve of mine.

Vhalyar
18-04-2012, 18:15
I'm pretty sure that people are only referencing the parts of your post that contradict/imply a different schedule than what others have said ;)

Tymell
18-04-2012, 18:39
stickmonkey said no dark angels before 6th in the dark angel thread... so what are we getting in may/june?

I would imagine more wave releases. While it could be an army release, there aren't actually that many in a typical year. Most years see around 4 army books/codexes in total.

Sometimes it's 3, sometimes 5 (and in 2008 it was 6/7 depending on whether you count Daemons as one or two), but 4 is a fair average. Quite often it's 2 for Fantasy and 2 for 40K, and in the years where it's 5 books total it's usually 3 of one and 2 of the other. So it would fit fine to see two codexes released in the second half of the year.


3 codex's are set to drop this year, including the 2 starter forces books. plus there are 2 40k waves in May. Also expect to see a lot of 40k based realeases July - September.

I'd love for this to happen, but it seems very unlikely. Assuming June isn't a codex release (which also seems unlikely with a new edition the very next month), we'd need to see three codexes (by which I mean 40K books specifically) back to back August-September-October. That would be unprecedented (even two back to back is extremely rare).


Wasn't that 3rd edition? Also, basic rules for DE were in that rulebook, weren't they? I thought the 3rd edition rulebook had a basic outline of each army towards the back, if I'm not mistaken.

Indeed, Dark Eldar got their codex the month after 3rd edition was released, and had rules in the rulebook until then.

But that said, a model that gets rules later could still happen. I believe the Vampire Counts Terrorgheist didn't get rules until the 8th edition Vampire Counts army book came out five months later.

Hokiecow
18-04-2012, 18:42
I like how everyone keeps saying i'm 100% wrong... but I also have in here that 6th edition is dropping there in the summer. If I'm 100% wrong on everything I've posted, then when is 6th edition coming, hm?

Absolutes are a pet peeve of mine.

I don't think anyone doubts you heard something. People are just debating the weight of it since some of it contradicts what's been said, is old rumors that rumor mongers have shot down, or has already been stated by others (ie, 6th in the summer).

Harry
18-04-2012, 19:04
I very rarely post information on here, but many that know me from pm's will know I am rarely wrong. I just popped on the forum to see this thread and think that whilst I am sure you're heart is in the right place, this information is 100% wrong and whilst the forum encourages rumours, this thread not being closed is encouraging simply wrong information to be posted and discussed that will misinform people. By commenting that you're source knows people in the know this goes to further my point.

Put simply, this information is all wrong! I would absolutely love Eldar to be in the box and a codex this year, but this is not the case. The box is 100% as has been discussed and whilst I rarely post information, I do not like to see the wrong information put out there giving strong sources etc which result in misinforming people.
What he said. :D


.....but seeing as this is a *rumor* discussion thread, I think it's premature to declare absolutes about what is right and wrong.

I for one have no idea of who you are or where you get your information. Similarly, you have no idea who I am and where I get my information. A point you seem to be missing is that whilst this is all just rumours to some people to others it is not. Lets take the starter set as an example .... The starter set armies will have been set in stone for over two years and with just two months to go a large number of people will be well aware of what they are. A number of those people are members on this forum. The fact that they choose not to post what they know does not mean that they do not know, as 100%, cast iron, fact what the truth is they just choose not to post it. The same is true of the schedule for 2012. Lots of people know exactly what is coming over the next 8 months and indeed into 2013 ... they just choose not to share that information.


Ultimately though it's the strength of the DA v Chaos rumours from Harry and Hastings which make me doubt this.In fairness to Hastings, that was all Hastings....I had Eldar an Chaos as my best guess for a long time based on what I had heard ... right up until Hastings said DA. This was as big a surprise to me as it was to everyone else.

Whedn I say 'everyone else' obviously not to all the people who have known this for months. :D

wyomingfox
18-04-2012, 20:07
The boxed set for 6th with be Chaos versus Dark Angels.


June-Aug: 6th Ed/Box Set DA vs. CSM


6th starter does indeed feature DA and the forces of chaos, including a nice plastic chaos dread



Well Hastings said that it would include a Chaos Dread and some kind of renegade guard/cultists/chaos normal humans of some kind.
I'm also willing to add (and you'll need to forgive my weak 40k fu here) that the CSM in the starter are Chosen? (hope that's the right name - 40k really isn't my thing!!)...
The cultists/renegades post was me, it's just I'm nit 100% sure what their proper name is, that being said I'm almost certain I've got it right.

I think the past testimony of 3 noted rumor bearers should be enough evidence that we will be getting a DA and Choas Starter Box Set.

Droma
18-04-2012, 20:47
Like has been said already either this all pans out or it doesn't. If it does then we'll have a new king of the rumor hill and if it doesn't this guy will either go away or find a more credible source before posting next time.

Dervos
18-04-2012, 21:33
edit: never mind, apparently if you do a search they pop up quickly enough, this didn't happen with the sisters and necrons though. They were removed from the listing and search results.

I'm sorry if I got anyone excited,

wyomingfox
18-04-2012, 21:59
I had Eldar an Chaos as my best guess for a long time based on what I had heard ... right up until Hastings said DA.

Well that is news to me. Did you keep this close to home (like you sometimes do :D)...I just can't recall you ever sharing a guess at the contents of the box set prior to January.

NixonAsADaemonPrince
19-04-2012, 00:04
Originally Posted by drbored (http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6185095)
I like how everyone keeps saying i'm 100% wrong... but I also have in here that 6th edition is dropping there in the summer. If I'm 100% wrong on everything I've posted, then when is 6th edition coming, hm?

Absolutes are a pet peeve of mine.

That's being a bit pedantic isn't it? The fact that 6th edition will be arriving the summer of 2012 has been commonly known for quite some time as far as I'm aware.

Shas0cho
19-04-2012, 00:26
I am really hoping it ends up being Tau in the box with a new codex either right before or after. While it seems there hasn't been any solid rumors suggesting this, it does make some sense as Tau fill some of the same niches as Eldar, and would likely be popular with kids due to the mecha theme. They certainly need the update more than anyone else, the only older codex tan them is BT and they had that FAQ fix up to bring them up to par a bit. Only big issue I see is the lack of a clear good guy vs bad guy if its tau and DA, although it would be if its tau and Chaos.

Might be grasping at false hopes here though. And if Tau aren't in the box I would be surprised if they squeezed in before 6th.

MajorWesJanson
19-04-2012, 00:46
Might be grasping at false hopes here though. And if Tau aren't in the box I would be surprised if they squeezed in before 6th.

Tau are supposedly the first (40K?) book of 2013, so probably book 2 of 6th after Chaos in the autumn. Then likely Dark Angels and Eldar to round out the year book wise for 40K

Shas0cho
19-04-2012, 00:53
Well thats not too bad then. Plenty of time to work on my Orks and Vanilla marines then. Its interesting that they seem to have been bumped back because I feel like for a long time people had them slotted for just before 6th. Maybe being the 2nd 6th codex will actually be good for them.

bobafett_h
19-04-2012, 01:27
If The Hobbit game and minis gets released this year as has been rumoured, then that is a big reason for GW to make sure that all other releases this year and next year are done right. My understanding is that when GW first released the LOTR game and miniatures, it attracted quite a lot of new gamers to the hobby. It is a big chance to attract newbies to other GW games such as 40K or WHFB using a big property that The Hobbit is, especially if the first movie does well which I have no doubts it will. Having a good range of up to date models, rules and other items ready to go around the time of The Hobbit's release will be in GW's best interests. Because of that, we may see more new releases this year than may have been traditional, however the schedule may still be just like how things have been the past decade...

With that idea in mind, it may not be too far fetched that we could see DA, Chaos and Eldar all released this year plus a few WHFB armies too. Starter set rumours have swung between Chaos vs Eldar, Chaos vs DA and DA vs Eldar over the last 6 months or so which as usual makes it hard to have any kind of surety as to what the end result will be. The image on the WD spine of the Dark Angel and Dark Angels in the new paint set would seem to confirm DAs in the starter set, but it is still possible that they might not be included. Perhaps they might just end up as the new poster child chapter, or it could be because theirs is the next Marine Codex or GW just wanted a change from Ultramarines. (Apparently Matt Ward is no longer the head of games development for 40K who is a massive UM fanboy so this could make sense)

Other rumours that have floated around at some time indicated that there will not be just one Starter set. Instead there could be two or more separate boxes with a different army in each plus the usual starter set gear included soft cover rule book. Such a rumour, if true could allow for all 3 armies to be represented on release of the starter set without being too weird. You'd have your evil force (Chaos), your good force (DA) and your neutral force (Eldar). Rumours of DA themed terrain as well as Daemonworld themed terrain have been mentioned too which could perhaps both end up in their respective starter sets if they are done individually.

Finally, each of the combinations that have been rumoured if there is only one starter set all have advantages and disadvantages. Chaos VS Eldar would probably make the most sense fluff wise (enemies since before the Imperium) while providing the greatest variety of models, rules and contrasting colour schemes. Dark Angels VS Chaos would also make sense fluff wise (almost like a love/hate relationship), but would only provide a good variety of rules and models if Chaos is made up of units like Daemons and Heretics/Traitor Guard rather than units of Chaos Marines. Dark Angels vs Eldar would also work to some extent, but there is less of a reason for them to fight each compared to the other two combinations and would also provide a good variety of models and rules.

It has also been said that Eldar wouldn't match up against Chaos Marines or Dark Angels because they would die too easily and it would be too hard to defeat the other army. This may be true using the current rules, but the new Codex could change this and bring them up to speed. Who says a Farseer can't beat a Chaos Lord/Marine Captain? While they may be lame in combat, if equipped and used the right way, they can still defeat other characters without ever needing to get into combat. Meanwhile an Autarch with Wings/WJG, Fusion gun and Power Weapon can beat a power armoured HQ character. Besides, it could be something like a Chaos Sorceror or Dark Angel Chaplain in the Starter set/s anyway...

Wrath
19-04-2012, 01:30
Tau are supposedly the first (40K?) book of 2013, so probably book 2 of 6th after Chaos in the autumn. Then likely Dark Angels and Eldar to round out the year book wise for 40K

Oh, did this get confirmed? last I head it was a toss up between Tau and Eldar for the first in '13, DA, then Tau/Eldar, which ever one did not come out the first go around, after that.

Droma
19-04-2012, 01:44
Oh, did this get confirmed? last I head it was a toss up between Tau and Eldar for the first in '13, DA, then Tau/Eldar, which ever one did not come out the first go around, after that. No confirmations just the usual conjecture.

MajorWesJanson
19-04-2012, 03:32
Found the posts from Harry.

Posts 105 and 106 in here. Would quote, but closed thread. (http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?334631-What-s-next-for-40k-CLOSED/page6)

Shamana
19-04-2012, 08:27
Generally speaking, how definite is that there WILL be a Hobbit game anyway? I was under the impression that LotR isn't all that successful a project,and The Hobbit wasn't exactly the most epic book Tolkien ever wrote.

BramGaunt
19-04-2012, 09:18
Generally speaking, how definite is that there WILL be a Hobbit game anyway? I was under the impression that LotR isn't all that successful a project,and The Hobbit wasn't exactly the most epic book Tolkien ever wrote.

Lord of the Rings made GW a huge load of cash, and the book was not that popular until the movies came out 10 years ago. LotR paid for all the shiny new plastic sets we got today (their development, to be precise). Kids were all over Tolkiens universe and it was a quick start into the whole tabletop gaming universe. Only because LotR isn't popular now doesn't mean it won't be when all of the LotR hype starts Mid November (TV trailers, Movie adds, PC Games, the whole deal) you can bet your behind that many 10-14 year olds are going to want their own little 15 man companionship o kill some orcs with.

Also, GW made an official announcement that they got the licence and are making miniatures for it.

reds8n
19-04-2012, 09:31
The deal they announced in 2011 was for a 6 year extension to the LOTR/Hobbit licenses

http://www.geeknative.com/18416/games-workshop-signs-6-year-deal-with-warner-for-lord-of-the-rings-and-the-hobbit/

I think we can rest assured that there will be at least 1 game to tie in with the films.

Given the refocusing of the LOTR game towards the larger battles it would seem reasonable ( especially when considers the plot of the book) that any such Hobbit game will be somewhat more skirmish orientated.

[/hijack : we now return you to your regularly scheduled thread.

MajorWesJanson
19-04-2012, 10:43
What, like Necromunda with Hobbits and Dwarves?

There is also the battle of the five armies that could expand on the current LotR game.

*not hijacked as a Hobbit release does impact the schedule ;)

Starchild
19-04-2012, 11:37
Generally speaking, how definite is that there WILL be a Hobbit game anyway? I was under the impression that LotR isn't all that successful a project,and The Hobbit wasn't exactly the most epic book Tolkien ever wrote.It's true. A bunch of squats and stunties are going to push back 40k releases well into 2013. :(

Cheers to anyone who knows what a stuntie is... :D

Hokiecow
19-04-2012, 12:03
So the Squats get their payback for being... squatted.....:eyebrows:

Aun Tier
19-04-2012, 12:29
In the light of optimism, I'm going to choose to take 'Squats' as the Demiurg in the new Tau Codex! :D

Kaelarr
19-04-2012, 14:07
If The Hobbit game and minis gets released this year as has been rumoured, then that is a big reason for GW to make sure that all other releases this year and next year are done right. My understanding is that when GW first released the LOTR game and miniatures, it attracted quite a lot of new gamers to the hobby. It is a big chance to attract newbies to other GW games such as 40K or WHFB using a big property that The Hobbit is, especially if the first movie does well which I have no doubts it will. Having a good range of up to date models, rules and other items ready to go around the time of The Hobbit's release will be in GW's best interests. Because of that, we may see more new releases this year than may have been traditional, however the schedule may still be just like how things have been the past decade...

On the Money there, plus GW are not going to let Blood Bowls 25th anniversary year pass without doing something for that...


With that idea in mind, it may not be too far fetched that we could see DA, Chaos and Eldar all released this year plus a few WHFB armies too. Starter set rumours have swung between Chaos vs Eldar, Chaos vs DA and DA vs Eldar over the last 6 months or so which as usual makes it hard to have any kind of surety as to what the end result will be. The image on the WD spine of the Dark Angel and Dark Angels in the new paint set would seem to confirm DAs in the starter set, but it is still possible that they might not be included. Perhaps they might just end up as the new poster child chapter, or it could be because theirs is the next Marine Codex or GW just wanted a change from Ultramarines. (Apparently Matt Ward is no longer the head of games development for 40K who is a massive UM fanboy so this could make sense)

Harry has already said what the first 40k codex is for 2013... although it may not be that far away. Eldar wont be seen until at least 3 other 40k codexs are out first.


Other rumours that have floated around at some time indicated that there will not be just one Starter set. Instead there could be two or more separate boxes with a different army in each plus the usual starter set gear included soft cover rule book. Such a rumour, if true could allow for all 3 armies to be represented on release of the starter set without being too weird. You'd have your evil force (Chaos), your good force (DA) and your neutral force (Eldar). Rumours of DA themed terrain as well as Daemonworld themed terrain have been mentioned too which could perhaps both end up in their respective starter sets if they are done individually.

Colour me more than dubious. GW have made quite a lot of strategic decisions with regards to terrain, they have made it a separate in its own right, as opposed to "add on" sales. Expect similar to assault on black reach in that regard.


Finally, each of the combinations that have been rumoured if there is only one starter set all have advantages and disadvantages. Chaos VS Eldar would probably make the most sense fluff wise (enemies since before the Imperium) while providing the greatest variety of models, rules and contrasting colour schemes. Dark Angels VS Chaos would also make sense fluff wise (almost like a love/hate relationship), but would only provide a good variety of rules and models if Chaos is made up of units like Daemons and Heretics/Traitor Guard rather than units of Chaos Marines. Dark Angels vs Eldar would also work to some extent, but there is less of a reason for them to fight each compared to the other two combinations and would also provide a good variety of models and rules.

They don't need a reason to fight, the starter set will have its own mission booklet and background like the others before it - its not aimed at existing gamers as much as its aimed at bringing people into the hobby with awesomely cool toys, GW frankly dont care too much if it makes sense fluff wise, the beauty of fluff, is you can always write more to support what your trying to do, hell, just look at the Necron codex.


It has also been said that Eldar wouldn't match up against Chaos Marines or Dark Angels because they would die too easily and it would be too hard to defeat the other army. This may be true using the current rules, but the new Codex could change this and bring them up to speed. Who says a Farseer can't beat a Chaos Lord/Marine Captain? While they may be lame in combat, if equipped and used the right way, they can still defeat other characters without ever needing to get into combat. Meanwhile an Autarch with Wings/WJG, Fusion gun and Power Weapon can beat a power armoured HQ character. Besides, it could be something like a Chaos Sorceror or Dark Angel Chaplain in the Starter set/s anyway...

But the missions will make it possible for both factions to win any given mission. Lets face it, Chaos Cultists vs Marines is hardly a fair straight up fight is it? And I wouldn't be surprised if I were you to see one of those 2 possible HQ choices you mentioned...

Starchild
19-04-2012, 15:04
On the Money there, plus GW are not going to let Blood Bowls 25th anniversary year pass without doing something for that...Another limited edition game? So I thought. Year of 40k indeed. :o



Eldar wont be seen until at least 3 other 40k codexs are out first.In other words, 2014? :cries:



But the missions will make it possible for both factions to win any given mission. Lets face it, Chaos Cultists vs Marines is hardly a fair straight up fight is it? And I wouldn't be surprised if I were you to see one of those 2 possible HQ choices you mentioned...Like I've been saying over and over... the cultists will get something like Without Number in the missions. When the unit(s) is/are broken or wiped out the chaos player will be able to bring them back onto the board at full strength.

My money is on the chaplain being in the box. :skull:

Voss
19-04-2012, 15:26
Like has been said already either this all pans out or it doesn't. If it does then we'll have a new king of the rumor hill and if it doesn't this guy will either go away or find a more credible source before posting next time.

I don't think thats the best way to approach it. There may well be credible stuff in there, so it isn't a matter of all or nothing (and definitely not being king of the hill). The real problem I see is the rumours are mixed together too thoroughly with rationalizations and logic (which doesn't necessarily apply to GW's decisions- they often use a different logic set, rather than the various sets the customers use, and without having total access to GW's information, its impossible to duplicate their logic anyway).

I suggest for any budding rumour mongers (and we need more of those), that they approach things a little differently: post the rumours, then post your thoughts on them. Mixing the two seems to produce confusion and doubt.




With that idea in mind, it may not be too far fetched that we could see DA, Chaos and Eldar all released this year plus a few WHFB armies too.
It really is. This just isn't physically possible for GW to do. A third of the year is done, and another third is pretty much locked down (may necrons, 6th, 6th starter, hobbit, december deals) That leaves 3 months, and a fairly limited amount of time at the printer to produce other books in quantity. Also June and August rarely have book releases.

At this point, I'll be somewhat surprised if we see one codex and one more army book this year. Mostly likely it will be one or the other, with a decent chance of neither at all.

Wave releases and terrain is different matter, of course.

Sythica
19-04-2012, 16:29
I can't see the Hobbit stuff coming out before the movie. I can just imagine the contract negotiations:

GW: "But we don't release stuff in December. We need to release it the month before."

New Line Cinema: "Yeah.. No."

Pre-orders or even released on openning weekend. That frees up November for a codex, which frees up October for Bloodbowl.

My 2 cents.

Kaelarr
19-04-2012, 16:32
In other words, 2014? :cries:


I don't know when they are slated, I only know the next 3 - and they are not one of them.

Silvertongue
19-04-2012, 16:40
But we've known that for a while, have we not? In no particular order, and according to respected rumour-mongers, the next codices are CSM, DA and Tau, yes? Unless I'm misremembering and DA is not there at all.

Scribe of Khorne
19-04-2012, 16:40
I don't know when they are slated, I only know the next 3 - and they are not one of them.

Do you know how much global stress you could relieve by telling us when Chaos is coming? ;p

static grass
19-04-2012, 16:41
I can't see the Hobbit stuff coming out before the movie. I can just imagine the contract negotiations:

GW: "But we don't release stuff in December. We need to release it the month before."

New Line Cinema: "Yeah.. No."


My 2 cents.

Why incase it spoils the plot? Or reveals what the characters look like?

New Line aren't fools. The hobbit game will be a niche in the overall marketing monster that will be unleashed prior to the movie coming out.

Shas0cho
19-04-2012, 16:57
Spoil the plot? I'm pretty sure the plot of the Hobbit is already out there, you know since there's the book...
Or do you mean for kids who haven't read it? That would make some sense.

BramGaunt
19-04-2012, 17:06
I can't see the Hobbit stuff coming out before the movie. I can just imagine the contract negotiations:

GW: "But we don't release stuff in December. We need to release it the month before."

New Line Cinema: "Yeah.. No."

Pre-orders or even released on openning weekend. That frees up November for a codex, which frees up October for Bloodbowl.

My 2 cents.

It's not like the LotR game came out a month prior to the movie. Oh, wait. That's what happened.

Pushkin
19-04-2012, 17:10
Hmm i've read through the thread, and tbh i'm not entirely convinced by the OP's view of the 2012 release schedule. We pretty much know the 6th ed of 40k and the hobbit are coming. They'll probably want the boxed hobbit game to be sold in other retailers (e.g. supermarkets, argos etc.) so i reckon that'll leak pretty early. If i had to bet i would say

May - Necron 2nd Wave
*
July - 40k hard back rule book, limited edition templates
*
September - 40k Starter Set - Dark Angels vs Chaos
*
*
December - The Hobbit boxed game

These are the things we pretty much know are coming, i would potentially also add Warriors of Chaos to the August slot, that leaves the Chaos Codex and either Codex Dark Angels, Codex Space Marines or a Dark Angels/Space marine splash release. By this i mean it could be a dark angels "themed" starter set, without actually being dark angels, then release a space marine codex this year and say a specific dark angels in 2013.

I reckon this whole autumn of fliers is probably a 40k splash release that (happen to have a number of fliers) to go with the new edition rather than any specific supplement.

This leaves October free, i reckon its got to be a fantasy release, possibly a WD dwarf release e.g. big monster with rules in the book. i doubt they'd do another army book, but then again they do seem to be churning them out atm! maybe a warhammer splash release mixed with a 40k
I also reckon they'll be 40k scenery in december and some super-mega-army deals

Adding this in gives:

May - Necron 2nd Wave
June - Codex Dark Angels - a few DA specific plastic sets
July - 40k hard back rule book, limited edition templates (40k splash?)
August - Warhammer Armies Warriors of Chaos
September - 40k Starter Set - Dark Angels vs Chaos
October - Fantasy release? 40k splash?
November - Codex Chaos Space Marines
December - The Hobbit boxed game - 40k firebase - armydeals

i doubt they'd fit codex eldar and codex tau in till next year, theres also a range of army books that need doing for fantasy, they'll be a second chaos wave in march/april as well as a hobbit follow on at some point. I reckon maybe a fantasy release in Jan (Brets? lol) followed by codex eldar in feb (plastic aspects/new jetbikes yippe) hobbit/chaos in march?

But hey this is just speculation based on reading pretty much every rumour thread whilst bored at work!

DeadInTheHead
19-04-2012, 17:25
...
This leaves October free, i reckon its got to be a fantasy release...

Blood bowl ?

Soldado
19-04-2012, 18:14
Adding this in gives:

May - Necron 2nd Wave
June - Codex Dark Angels - a few DA specific plastic sets
July - 40k hard back rule book, limited edition templates (40k splash?)
August - Warhammer Armies Warriors of Chaos
September - 40k Starter Set - Dark Angels vs Chaos
October - Fantasy release? 40k splash?
November - Codex Chaos Space Marines
December - The Hobbit boxed game - 40k firebase - armydeals

But...


Sorry,
I have to step in. I thought this thread would die on its own, but it looks like its just taking on a life of its own.

No C: DA before 6th.

Apologies for letting everyone get revved up so long. But it's just not happening, and I can't sit idle and let everyone suffer.

My best guess is early to mid 2013. I don't see it any sooner.

So no DA before 6th, and then,

May - Necron 2nd Wave
June - Codex Chaos Legions
July - 40k hard back rule book, limited edition templates (40k splash?)
August - Warhammer Armies Warriors of Chaos
September - 40k Starter Set - Dark Angels vs Chaos
October - November - Stuff that I don't care
December - 40k firebase - armydeals

:)

Gorbad Ironclaw
19-04-2012, 18:20
November - Codex Chaos Space Marines
December - The Hobbit boxed game - 40k firebase - armydeals


The Hobbit game will almost certainly be November. GW never release games/books in December, and the LotR games also came in November. So move The Hobbit to November and leave December free for other deals. You might get a Chaos Codex in October though, that's much more plausible than November with the Hobbit in December.

The French Guy
19-04-2012, 18:27
So, following your past posts guys, and according to several of our sources, this might be our most "precise" planning:

May - Necron 2nd Wave
June - Codex Chaos Space Marines
July - 40k hard back rule book, limited edition templates (40k splash?)
August - Warhammer Armies Warriors of Chaos
September - 40k Starter Set - Dark Angels vs Chaos
October - Blood Bowl
November - The Hobbit
December - 40k firebase - armydeals

Is it? Are we in contradiction with any major rumor monger or source?

Lexington
19-04-2012, 18:31
Is it? Are we in contradiction with any major rumor monger or source?
Think several sources have been pretty clear that the book is "Codex: Chaos Space Marines," rather than "Chaos Legions," but the rest sounds right.

The French Guy
19-04-2012, 18:35
sorry, was mainly a copy-paste job from the past posts. I didn't watch out for that. ^^
Edited anyway!

Theocracity
19-04-2012, 18:40
So, following your past posts guys, and according to several of our sources, this might be our most "precise" planning:

May - Necron 2nd Wave
June - Codex Chaos Space Marines
July - 40k hard back rule book, limited edition templates (40k splash?)
August - Warhammer Armies Warriors of Chaos
September - 40k Starter Set - Dark Angels vs Chaos
October - Blood Bowl
November - The Hobbit
December - 40k firebase - armydeals

Is it? Are we in contradiction with any major rumor monger or source?

I dunno. I highly doubt we'll see any codex before 6th, especially since we've heard that Chaos will be 'the first codex of 6th edition.' the only way that statement makes sense is if Chaos is entirely a 6th book, and that sounds like a stretch. I don't think we'll see any codex honestly.

Also I don't think we have any solid rumors about Blood Bowl; just some speculation based on its anniversary.

I would say wave releases for various armies in June, and push the Chaos dex to the October slot.

Shas0cho
19-04-2012, 19:26
This is discounting the rumors about Autumn of fliers. I wouldn't be surprised to see that in october, with Blood Bowl being a smaller release that doesn't take a whole month.

It could be Blood Bowl at beginning of October, Fliers at end of oct/beginning of Nov, then Hobbit at mid to end of november, as they would release it closer to the movie release.

Tymell
19-04-2012, 19:29
I can't see the Hobbit stuff coming out before the movie. I can just imagine the contract negotiations:

GW: "But we don't release stuff in December. We need to release it the month before."

New Line Cinema: "Yeah.. No."

Pre-orders or even released on openning weekend. That frees up November for a codex, which frees up October for Bloodbowl.

My 2 cents.

Why would New Line even be bothered? As said, it's not like it'll spoil the plot, and it's how they did it the last three times.


This is discounting the rumors about Autumn of fliers. I wouldn't be surprised to see that in october, with Blood Bowl being a smaller release that doesn't take a whole month.

It could be Blood Bowl at beginning of October, Fliers at end of oct/beginning of Nov, then Hobbit at mid to end of november, as they would release it closer to the movie release.

Remember that Harry himself (who coined the "Autumn of Fliers" term) has said the "Autumn" part is more of a convenient name now than an actual indication of when such a wave might come.

Sythica
19-04-2012, 19:59
Well, if we are all so bound by history, when the Fellowship of the Rings came out (a month before the movie, yes), it came out alongside rather large Tau release. Therefore, if the Hobbit comes out in November of this year, so could a large 40K or Fantasy release at the same time.

But times are different now. Everyone, from GW to New Line are much, much more careful of how advance information/leaks affects marketing and therefore affects the bottom line. Just look at John Carter's staggering losses, largely due to horrible marketing (not an opinion, details of the marketing decisions are available on the web).

Also thinking of business, if we are getting conflicting rumours about Tau, Chaos, DA, based somewhat on eye-witness reports of models and books, GW may indeed have a stockpile of stuff ready to go for 6th (and obviously an inventory of Hobbit stuff). But holding on to excessive inventory amounts is typically frowned upon by your shareholders, so probably sooner rather than later, the pressure will be on GW to move that inventory, and fast. Maybe are wallets will be in trouble from a rapid succession of releases.

static grass
19-04-2012, 20:21
GW's current release pattern is to focus on one army/system per month. I am not saying this is entirely immutable because afterall its just a policy they seem to have. The other release pattern is no new army in December. All of the previous LotR games came out a month before the movies released.

When we look at these three patterns combined I see:

November: THE HOBBIT.

Note to self. Add in random discussion about profit, inventory systems, random anecdotes here.

EmperorNorton
19-04-2012, 20:54
Also I don't think we have any solid rumors about Blood Bowl; just some speculation based on its anniversary.

Yes, we have, from Harry and Hastings:
http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?318956-Blood-Bowl

Theocracity
19-04-2012, 21:09
Yes, we have, from Harry and Hastings:
http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?318956-Blood-Bowl

So we do! Sneaky post in the Fantasy forum. I take it back then, Blood Bowl it is.

Tymell
19-04-2012, 21:11
Well, if we are all so bound by history, when the Fellowship of the Rings came out (a month before the movie, yes), it came out alongside rather large Tau release. Therefore, if the Hobbit comes out in November of this year, so could a large 40K or Fantasy release at the same time.

Oh some kind of release(s) is quite possible, it's just an actual army book/codex that seems unlikely. Though again, not impossible.


Also thinking of business, if we are getting conflicting rumours about Tau, Chaos, DA, based somewhat on eye-witness reports of models and books, GW may indeed have a stockpile of stuff ready to go for 6th (and obviously an inventory of Hobbit stuff). But holding on to excessive inventory amounts is typically frowned upon by your shareholders, so probably sooner rather than later, the pressure will be on GW to move that inventory, and fast. Maybe are wallets will be in trouble from a rapid succession of releases.

I certainly wouldn't be surprised to know they've got a fair bit "ready to go" as it were. From everything I've read from rumour-mongers over the years, it's not that GW releases things as they're made, they'll often have things waiting for a good release time.

Harry
19-04-2012, 21:45
Yes, we have, from Harry and Hastings:
http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?318956-Blood-Bowl

There has been a lot of water under the bridge since then.

In all these suggested schedules there seem to be a significant number of flyers missing. :D

Starchild
19-04-2012, 21:51
I certainly wouldn't be surprised to know they've got a fair bit "ready to go" as it were. From everything I've read from rumour-mongers over the years, it's not that GW releases things as they're made, they'll often have things waiting for a good release time.I saw the newest Tomb Kings kits perching on the shelves next to the docks in the Memphis HQ factory about 3 weeks prior to the release date. They definitely stock up in advance.

But the impact on shelf space isn't as bad as one might think because they have their inventory categorized based on sale volume levels. The highest selling items get pushed constantly through a dedicated trade accounts shipping process so these items never spend much time gathering dust.

Low volume sales items lurk toward the front of the factory. It was here that I saw huge stacks of Redemption Fortresses. For all GW's faults their production works like a well annointed & blessed machine. (In fact the symbol of the Mechanicus is found all over the factory signage! :cool:)

So what does this have to do with the release schedule? If anyone spots new items ready for shipping, I estimate they will be unleashed within at most two months.

kericmason
19-04-2012, 22:02
There has been a lot of water under the bridge since then.

In all these suggested schedules there seem to be a significant number of flyers missing. :D

Does that mean our hopes of blood bowl 25th anniversary are dashed?

Eric

Marked_by_chaos
19-04-2012, 22:38
I have no idea as to the release schedule generally but is it really certain that the hobbit will be November or December.

Obviously the film is being released in December but bearing in mind GW will be basing the models on the film designs will they be allowed to release the game or images of the models before the film is released. If the film is scheduled for around 12-14 December I would not be suprised if the game is not released until January. Having said that GW are not complete mugs and would want to release the game in time for Christmas. Perhaps it will be released around the time of the movie and the pictures in White Dwarf etc will be uncontroversial and based on the movie promo pictures and art etc. (i.e. no images of Smaug)

_Chimaera
19-04-2012, 22:48
Just a quick curve ball.

What is this 40K Firebase listed in pushkin's post.

Is this a new scenery set?

Tymell
19-04-2012, 23:26
I have no idea as to the release schedule generally but is it really certain that the hobbit will be November or December.

Obviously the film is being released in December but bearing in mind GW will be basing the models on the film designs will they be allowed to release the game or images of the models before the film is released. If the film is scheduled for around 12-14 December I would not be suprised if the game is not released until January. Having said that GW are not complete mugs and would want to release the game in time for Christmas. Perhaps it will be released around the time of the movie and the pictures in White Dwarf etc will be uncontroversial and based on the movie promo pictures and art etc. (i.e. no images of Smaug)

Again: there seemed no issue with the games coming out in November on the previous three LOTR-years.

And I still don't see why there would be anything "controversial" about it anyway. There's no real risk of spoilers since everyone can read the plot in the book already, and by November trailers and other images will be everywhere, films don't generally try to keep everything hidden and under wraps that close to release. Not everyone is as terrified of images of their product getting out more than a week before general release as GW ;)

Voss
20-04-2012, 01:23
Also thinking of business, if we are getting conflicting rumours about Tau, Chaos, DA, based somewhat on eye-witness reports of models and books, GW may indeed have a stockpile of stuff ready to go for 6th (and obviously an inventory of Hobbit stuff). But holding on to excessive inventory amounts is typically frowned upon by your shareholders, so probably sooner rather than later, the pressure will be on GW to move that inventory, and fast.

Keep in mind that they don't have to hold on to _any_ inventory. They can finish the designs and books, have the prototypes and masters sitting around, but not schedule things for actual production until right before release. So they can have a couple dozen 'finished products' just sitting around on a single bookshelf, but use no inventory space whatsoever. Then at T-[however many weeks it takes to produce sufficient product] they can fire up the production lines and/or printing presses, have things move from manufacturing facility to shipping facility then out the door. The only real trick is working out the schedule with the printers and reserving the necessary block of time on the machines close enough to the desired release date. For books, anyway. For minis, presumably they can schedule that with themselves with no problems.

Danjester
20-04-2012, 06:27
In all these suggested schedules there seem to be a significant number of flyers missing. :D

Oh, I wouldn't worry. I suspect you'll be seeing them sooner rather than later. Much sooner.

meltedwing
20-04-2012, 06:30
There has been a lot of water under the bridge since then.

In all these suggested schedules there seem to be a significant number of flyers missing. :D

I could certainly go for some more Tau and GK flyers.

MajorWesJanson
20-04-2012, 07:14
Oh, I wouldn't worry. I suspect you'll be seeing them sooner rather than later. Much sooner.

June of Fliers? Fly-uly? Fliers with the 6th book to show off the new rules?

Kaltenberg
20-04-2012, 07:20
Just let me get this rigth.
Before december the schedule should have room for 6th edition, a starter set, bloodbowl, the Hobbit, and ofcouse something fantasy in between...
That makes more then a single 40k codex vewry unlikely in my oppinion.

I would love to be surprised though. :D
But it does seems like 40k is being neglected even in a year of a new edition.

Starchild
20-04-2012, 07:30
But it does seems like 40k is being neglected even in a year of a new edition.40k releases got pushed back at least a full year as a result of the LoTR Strategy Battle Game being released and I expect the release of the Hobbit SBG to have a similar effect. :(

MajorWesJanson
20-04-2012, 07:37
I honestly doubt a Bloodbowl game this year, as they tend to do one boxed set a year, including starters. We had Black Reach, then Space Hulk, then the Fantasy box, then Dreadfleet, then this year should be 6th Starter. I'd put it as the big summer/autumn thing for next year.

Hobbit I expect to get November, then 1-2 more months in early 2013, like Jan and maybe March/April.

40K books I only expect CSM this year, in October. Followed by Tau in say Feb.

EmperorNorton
20-04-2012, 08:06
There has been a lot of water under the bridge since then.
Don't go breaking my heart...


I honestly doubt a Bloodbowl game this year, as they tend to do one boxed set a year, including starters. We had Black Reach, then Space Hulk, then the Fantasy box, then Dreadfleet, then this year should be 6th Starter. I'd put it as the big summer/autumn thing for next year.

Hobbit I expect to get November, then 1-2 more months in early 2013, like Jan and maybe March/April.
And you think The Hobbit won't get a boxed set?

ForgottenLore
20-04-2012, 08:43
40k releases got pushed back at least a full year as a result of the LoTR Strategy Battle Game being released and I expect the release of the Hobbit SBG to have a similar effect. :(

They have "claimed" that they have significantly upsized their staff so that there will be little to know effect on the WFB and 40K schedules due to the Hobbit. Believe that or not as you will.

MajorWesJanson
20-04-2012, 09:19
Don't go breaking my heart...


And you think The Hobbit won't get a boxed set?

Not at first. I'd expect some models and a rulebook in November, then the boxed set early next year, say January, to build on momentum for the game.

ErictheGreen
20-04-2012, 09:52
I honestly doubt a Bloodbowl game this year, as they tend to do one boxed set a year, including starters. We had Black Reach, then Space Hulk, then the Fantasy box, then Dreadfleet, then this year should be 6th Starter. I'd put it as the big summer/autumn thing for next year.

Hobbit I expect to get November, then 1-2 more months in early 2013, like Jan and maybe March/April.

40K books I only expect CSM this year, in October. Followed by Tau in say Feb.


No rumours on Blood Bowl, though it's the obvious choice for the next limited edition box. However, as the rulebook is online, there's a solid community and the other reasons mentioned means we won't see it this year, if at all.

Starchild
20-04-2012, 11:45
No rumours on Blood Bowl, though it's the obvious choice for the next limited edition box. However, as the rulebook is online, there's a solid community and the other reasons mentioned means we won't see it this year, if at all.Just to add to this, I'm not sure how they plan to tackle the teams (pun unintended...). Obviously there would not be enough space in a box for every team in addition to a lavishly illustrated game board. Either Bloodbowl will be the first limited edition game to get extra unit boxes or GW will simply settle on 2, 3, or at most 4 teams.

Rogue Star
20-04-2012, 11:50
Just to add to this, I'm not sure how they plan to tackle the teams (pun unintended...). Obviously there would not be enough space in a box for every team in addition to a lavishly illustrated game board. Either Bloodbowl will be the first limited edition game to get extra unit boxes or GW will simply settle on 2, 3, or at most 4 teams.

Off-topic, but it will suprise me if the limited edition update of Bloodbowl doesn't just give you two teams made up of various races, split into Order vs Disorder (i,e, High Elves, Empire, Dwarfs, Halfling, against Chaos, Orc & Goblin, Skaven, etc) which each player being a "star-player" like the way Dreadfleet worked, with each ship being it's own character.

SideshowLucifer
20-04-2012, 12:10
I think I'd cry and ignore that release and keep playing the living rules online.

Tymell
20-04-2012, 12:46
But it does seems like 40k is being neglected even in a year of a new edition.

I wouldn't say it's being "neglected" by any stretch. Assuming that the rest of the year does see 6th edition, starter set and, let's say, one more army book and one more codex, then on the Fantasy side we'd have 3 army books, on 40K we'd have a new edition of the game, a starter set, a codex and two big waves.

Chadjabdoul
20-04-2012, 13:11
About Bloodbowl...
It was always hard to imagine GW releasing another big box just after the 40k starter.
The way I see it Bloodbowl has the most chances of being the 2013 Sept.-Oct. big box release.
Hastings has mentioned 4 teams and a new pitch. Obviously things change, and like Harry said, a lot of water has gone under the bridge since then.
4 teams (in my opinion most likely are Humans, Orcs, Dwarfs, Elves) is not that unlikely, considering the amount of miniatures GW crams into big boxes these days.
If the game sells well then an expansion with 4 other teams (Chaos, Undead, Skaven, Lizardmen) could follow.
And that could be it for Bloodbowl. 8 decent teams is a very good amount for it to be considered a complete game with no other releases neccessary.

Starchild
20-04-2012, 13:26
The way I see it Bloodbowl has the most chances of being the 2013 Sept.-Oct. big box release.That would fit a pattern of a limited edition game every two years. So 2009: Space Hulk, 2011: Dreadfleet, 2013: Bloodbowl(?).

...the point being that there will most likely be no limited edition game this year, freeing up a whole month for something else.

lethlis
20-04-2012, 14:31
i am sorry for being off topic but does no one find it odd that there have been no rumors for a vanilla sm book? they are usually the first ones in a new edition so why no signs of them now?

ChrisMurray
20-04-2012, 14:41
i am sorry for being off topic but does no one find it odd that there have been no rumors for a vanilla sm book? they are usually the first ones in a new edition so why no signs of them now?

Because we're not expecting one in the next couple of years?

AlphariusOmegon20
20-04-2012, 15:00
I will be honest, I was not looking forward to the 2 power armor starter box idea. I thought that if it were to happen that way though, they would include daemons in the box as part of the Chaos choice, maybe some cultist/traitor guardsmen, and one squad of plague/noise/beserkers/thousand suns marines. DA vs. Eldar would be interesting, but being a game marketed for kids, the hero's/HQ choices would have to be able to take each other on one on one and be a fair fight. Currently, Eldar HQ choices can't take on a Marine captain of any flavor without being a named character.

It doesn't make sense to me with DA and Eldar in the starter box, but then again neither does Chaos. None of the 3 armies have had a codex update recently and there are no concrete rumors, other than yours, that we will even get another codex before 6th. To my understanding, every time GW releases the starter box, both armies are updated within a couple months. For Black Reach, the Orks got a new codex right before 5th, and Marines got theirs a month after. I can't speak for the other starter sets as I wasn't playing at that time.

Honestly it would suprise me less for GK and Chaos of some sorts in the starter set. GK is a solid (dare I say overpowered) codex that just got updated last year, and Chaos could be released right after 6th drops. Thats just speculation however.

However, I will eat my words if Eldar show up in the starter, and I will bow to GW if Tau are in the starter.

Actually there IS some of a precendent for both armies to appear in the box without having updated codexes. Just look at AoBR. Orks dropped towards the end of the year IIRC before the box came out. But SM dropped after the AoBR box did.

So GW has releassed armies that did not have updated codexes before. ( I believe 4th did the same thing also with 'Nids)

Gorbad Ironclaw
20-04-2012, 15:26
Off-topic, but it will suprise me if the limited edition update of Bloodbowl doesn't just give you two teams made up of various races, split into Order vs Disorder (i,e, High Elves, Empire, Dwarfs, Halfling, against Chaos, Orc & Goblin, Skaven, etc) which each player being a "star-player" like the way Dreadfleet worked, with each ship being it's own character.

If that's the format I think I'd prefer them not to release a new version of 'Bloodbowl' (it wouldn't really be Bloodbowl). It would be a perfectly good way of trying to ruin what's a very good game. Honestly, I don't think Blood Bowl fits the mould for these limited release games at all.

Prodigalson
20-04-2012, 16:07
I just don't think we have ever had a boxed set that dropped armies that hadn't been updated in the previous edition. I mean... Chaos is ready to go apparently, but Dark Angels... I am shocked that we are getting models for an army that is that underwhelming now. While Deathwing is good (with the FAQ) the rest of the DA codex is trash.

To answer lethlis, it appears that GW is moving away from any one Space Marine chapter being the defacto face of the marines. They now may do a new Space Marine chapter in the boxed set, with this time being Dark Angels. Perhaps next time it will be Blood Angels or Space Wolves (for 7th edition). I doubt we get a new Ultramarine codex until 2014 or so. At the moment the next is Chaos then in no particular order it appears to be Tau, Dark Angels and Eldar. After that I wouldn't be surprised if Black Templars finally got their release. Then we start the train over again with things like Chaos Demons, Orks.

Do remember that Fantasy got 5 Army Books in the last 13 months, so after the edition drops, we may have 5 new Codex's by Fall of next year.

meltedwing
20-04-2012, 16:23
I wouldn't say it's being "neglected" by any stretch. Assuming that the rest of the year does see 6th edition, starter set and, let's say, one more army book and one more codex, then on the Fantasy side we'd have 3 army books, on 40K we'd have a new edition of the game, a starter set, a codex and two big waves.

Releasing only one codex in a year would be out of line. GW hasn't released fewer than 2 codexes in quite a while. The statistical estimation for this year puts it dead even between 2 and 3 codexes released. Considering what they've released so far, I would expect that the latter half of the year will be heavily populated with 40k codexes. At the very least I expect the starter box armies to be updated.

Theocracity
20-04-2012, 16:38
Releasing only one codex in a year would be out of line. GW hasn't released fewer than 2 codexes in quite a while. The statistical estimation for this year puts it dead even between 2 and 3 codexes released. Considering what they've released so far, I would expect that the latter half of the year will be heavily populated with 40k codexes. At the very least I expect the starter box armies to be updated.

Note that the year of 8th Edition for Fantasy had only a single army book release to go along with it.

I'm not a fan of predicting based on precedent. GW is a business, and what made sense to do last year doesn't necessarily line up with what makes sense to do this year. Plus, the logic behind their decisions is probably decided more by business concerns hat we don't have much visibility on.

Mike3791
20-04-2012, 16:48
Note that the year of 8th Edition for Fantasy had only a single army book release to go along with it.

I'm not a fan of predicting based on precedent. GW is a business, and what made sense to do last year doesn't necessarily line up with what makes sense to do this year. Plus, the logic behind their decisions is probably decided more by business concerns hat we don't have much visibility on.

Fantasy is different dude, 40k is GWs cash cow powerhouse.. I support the 2 codex theory ;)

kericmason
20-04-2012, 16:52
Note that the year of 8th Edition for Fantasy had only a single army book release to go along with it.

I'm not a fan of predicting based on precedent. GW is a business, and what made sense to do last year doesn't necessarily line up with what makes sense to do this year. Plus, the logic behind their decisions is probably decided more by business concerns hat we don't have much visibility on.

To be specific: Fantasy had Beastmen at the beginning of 2010, 8th edition in July, the starter box in September, then it was March 2011 for the first army book (Orcs and Goblins). In that long gap, it was waves of models.

Eric

Starchild
20-04-2012, 17:02
I just don't think we have ever had a boxed set that dropped armies that hadn't been updated in the previous edition. I mean... Chaos is ready to go apparently, but Dark Angels... I am shocked that we are getting models for an army that is that underwhelming now. While Deathwing is good (with the FAQ) the rest of the DA codex is trash.A masterpiece in itself, only rubbish compared to newer codices. ;)

This is why I strongly suspect Dark Angels to be getting the codex of 2012, despite rumours to the contrary. Necrons are pretty much confirmed for May, but that doesn't necessarily rule out the rest of the year.

SideshowLucifer
20-04-2012, 17:06
I still have a hard time seeing not getting a new generic space marine codex right after a new edition. As long as I can remember, space marines have always had their codex redone right after a new edition. I know it isn't a popular belief, but my money is still on a new space marine codex with dark angles as the cover boys.

Theocracity
20-04-2012, 17:08
Fantasy is different dude, 40k is GWs cash cow powerhouse.. I support the 2 codex theory ;)

First off, that's the kind of logic that comes from fans instead of the business. Fantasy may be less popular in your area, leading you to that conclusion, but you don't have access to the global sales reports or the spreadsheets that they would use to determine market saturation and potential areas of sales growth. Space Marines may be a cash cow, but they probably get more sales out of an amazeballs new Fantasy army release than they would out of releasing yet another boring predator variant or tac marine repackaging.

Second, a year with only one codex release doesn't mean a year of no money out of 40K. They can do wave releases without a new codex, fill holes in armies, add a flyer expansion...and make sure 6th is stable before throwing new lists into the mix.

Shas0cho
20-04-2012, 17:14
There seems to be some discounting of the possibility of a WD codex for DA. The way I see it there are really only a few unique units being the death wing and raven wing units, so it could largely be based off of a new vanilla marine codex. Which opens up a space for the inevitable new vanilla codex.

Starchild
20-04-2012, 17:18
There seems to be some discounting of the possibility of a WD codex for DA. The way I see it there are really only a few unique units being the death wing and raven wing units, so it could largely be based off of a new vanilla marine codex. Which opens up a space for the inevitable new vanilla codex.Here we go again... all rumours regarding DAs point to a new book with plenty of unique units. The idea of DAs being rolled in as a generic chapter is only speculation.

Inquisitor Kallus
20-04-2012, 17:18
The way I see it there are really only a few unique units being the death wing and raven wing units,...

At this moment in time.....

Theocracity
20-04-2012, 17:23
I still have a hard time seeing not getting a new generic space marine codex right after a new edition. As long as I can remember, space marines have always had their codex redone right after a new edition. I know it isn't a popular belief, but my money is still on a new space marine codex with dark angles as the cover boys.


There seems to be some discounting of the possibility of a WD codex for DA. The way I see it there are really only a few unique units being the death wing and raven wing units, so it could largely be based off of a new vanilla marine codex. Which opens up a space for the inevitable new vanilla codex.

Here's the thing I don't get about the Vanilla Marine thoughts - why? Why would GW do that? What new market are they tapping into by re-releasing the same old? What are they going to add? They have to add new stuff or there's no sales boost from the release, but everyone gets angry when they add new tech or units to the supposedly static codex marines. And don't say they'd add DA units; at that point it's just a DA codex, and they could get even more new sales out of going all the way and introducing a ton of new DA specific stuff that codex marines wouldn't use anyway.

Vanilla marines will get changed by 6th. There's no need for a new dex. And if they want DA to be their own dex they'll do just that - with more differences than just the RW and DW.

burad
20-04-2012, 17:27
There seems to be some discounting of the possibility of a WD codex for DA. The way I see it there are really only a few unique units being the death wing and raven wing units, so it could largely be based off of a new vanilla marine codex. Which opens up a space for the inevitable new vanilla codex.

A WD codex is a bad idea if you're trying to sell models more than a month later. Look what's happened with SoB. You cannot get their WD 'codex' any more, so if you want an SoB army now, you can't play with it. When I wrote GW and told them a buddy of mine wanted to start an SoB army, and could they please tell me where to get the two WDs that make up the codex, their response was to say they were out of those WDs, were not printing any more of them, and I should tell my buddy to start a different army.

So a WD 'codex' is a bad idea for a major army, unless it's only intended as a supplement until the new one is out and they state as much.

Shas0cho
20-04-2012, 18:20
I'm pretty sure the SoB codex is available online, as I can remember seeing it in PDF form at some point. And it could also function as a supplement until a full codex, like the blood angels one. In fact, it could be used as a supplement to the vanilla codex, with a few limit rules. That was how the BA one was right?

Starchild
20-04-2012, 18:33
I'm pretty sure the SoB codex is available online, as I can remember seeing it in PDF form at some point. And it could also function as a supplement until a full codex, like the blood angels one. In fact, it could be used as a supplement to the vanilla codex, with a few limit rules. That was how the BA one was right?It was a complete army list.

Vegeta365
20-04-2012, 18:53
Because we're not expecting one in the next couple of years?

Actually it is in there somewhere ;)

Harry
20-04-2012, 19:03
40k releases got pushed back at least a full year as a result of the LoTR Strategy Battle Game being released and I expect the release of the Hobbit SBG to have a similar effect. :(I have said it a few times ... the studio have taken on more than enough new guys to ensure that the Hobbit has no impact on 40K releases. Nothing is pushed back. If anything I would be expecting more stuff not less.


Don't go breaking my heart...I couldn't if I tried.... :D


Actually it is in there somewhere ;)Let the moaning commence. :D

meltedwing
20-04-2012, 19:23
I have said it a few times ... the studio have taken on more than enough new guys to ensure that the Hobbit has no impact on 40K releases. Nothing is pushed back. If anything I would be expecting more stuff not less.

All the more reason for me to expect more than one codex this year.

Theocracity
20-04-2012, 19:29
I have said it a few times ... the studio have taken on more than enough new guys to ensure that the Hobbit has no impact on 40K releases. Nothing is pushed back. If anything I would be expecting more stuff not less.

That's much better evidence of more content in the future. You can judge a company's future output by their hiring status, not by what they did several years ago.

ChrisMurray
20-04-2012, 19:30
Let the moaning commence.

There will be no moaning or complaints from me, the more codex released the better as far as I am concerned. I just thought with DA, Chaos, tau and Eldar codex coming that that would be our fill for the next couple of years. If there is more I am very, very happy.

Harry
20-04-2012, 19:33
That's much better evidence of more content in the future. You can judge a company's future output by their hiring status, not by what they did several years ago.I think at GD last year there was five new guys on the sculpting team who where not there the year before. I think it was three the year before. It will be a while before some of their stuff starts to surface .... but the hiring process did not start last week.

Scribe of Khorne
20-04-2012, 19:50
Only one thing, one thing, matters at this point.

Is Chaos next. One of you knows, so just spill it!

Starchild
20-04-2012, 19:51
I think at GD last year there was five new guys on the sculpting team who where not there the year before. I think it was three the year before. It will be a while before some of their stuff starts to surface .... but the hiring process did not start last week.Good news then. The more talented hands to make Jes G.'s dreams into reality, the better. Especially since he's still in recovery from sculpting the Dark Eldar. :P