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Eternus
25-04-2012, 10:17
I have decided to post this here, because it does relate to tactics, but is more concerened with gamers actual tabletop experiences rather than theoryhammering what is best and worst.

The question is this: Now that we've had a little while with the latest Vampire Counts book, the changes to unit costs, spells, new units in the army and tweaks here and there, how are you getting on?

Has anything in the book changed how the army works significantly in practice? Are there armies you have been having either a rather easy or overly difficult time against? Have you made any major changes to your army since staring to use the new book?

Cheers.

Maoriboy007
25-04-2012, 11:00
Its strange but I really haven't seen too much info on the forum about them it practice. Personally, I've found them...well enjoyable to play with but merely o.k in power play to be frank. They're proabably a little weaker against the power armies than I'd like, but it could have been worse.
They still rely a little bit on an unreliable magic phase for combat and to a degree , movement. On that, mobility is something of an issue, I find that the requirement to be so close to your general limits your gameplay somewhat, having to cram so many elements close to your general, one of the biggest gripes I have really.
The pricing for much of the book is spot on for the most part, with the exception of Ghouls and some of the Bloodlines and Items, the rest being neither over or underpriced as far as I can work out. Turns out the hype about Hexwraiths and Terrorgheists was just that really.

Beastmen are a good close matchup for them, and apart from the hellheart or the Deathfist can go toe to toe with Ogres. WoC are a big ask unfortunately, as are filth Dark Elves. Dwarves...well I got lucky and beat a restrained list in a fair fight the other night so I'll reserve my opinion. Havent played against LM or Skaven with them yet. Demons are probably still a horror

Ville
25-04-2012, 11:04
I am adapting to the new book pretty well. My army has evolved from hordes of Ghouls into hordes of Zombies, which is what I wanted to do from the beginning, but felt like I was giving too much advantage to the opponent. I've been trying lists without any Vampire characters and they've been fairly successful too.

Against my initial feelings, I've been happy with the new magic system. I can't spam the old Vanhel's anymore, so I've been forced to actually come up with brand new tactics. I feel I'm improving all the time, which is important. Our core can be pretty strong when backed up with magic, sprinkling of some ethereal units can lift a lot of pressure and there are plenty of hammer units in the list who'll earn you the win. The new units are nice and shiny, but I have focused my attention in more standard units like good ol' Zombies and Knights.

Lack of marching has caused me some problems. I can't use my Varghulf anymore as a sub-general to help my flanking units. Thus, that precious 12" general bubble tends to be quite crowded. Overall, I think the new VC book is by far the best and most balanced armybook I've ever had, since I started with Lizardmen in 5th.

This week I shall face my biggest challenge yet: 3K points of Empire nastiness. I can't wait!

IcedCrow
25-04-2012, 12:11
We have two of them in our league. Preseason starts next week, I will have updates on the league, if you're interested you can see how the VC players are doing.

vinush
25-04-2012, 12:31
I've seen some good successes from them, as seen by my signature. I've not lost a game yet, and came a gnats breadth from a draw once. That said, we're not really into tournament play so it's a fun, friendly all comers list that I use, as do my opponents. I found ogres and dwarfs a struggle for different reasons.

Ogres are just so damn hard to kill, especially with the legion of mediocrity that is my army. Plus they don't suffer fear an hit like a sledgehammer when they inevitably get the charge.

Dwarfs shoot the unliving crap out of you before you can get close enough to them to fight them, they're too bloody tough and have such effective magic defense that casting was a bit o an issue.

That said, my almost draw was against the Orc and Goblin army I faced. Mostly that was because Necromancer John died, and I lost my remaining zombies to crumble before the vampire could take over.

THE \/ince

Texhnolyze
25-04-2012, 14:11
Mind you all, I'm pretty new at this. But I find them very fun to play, but sadly I don't win that much.

I've mostly been playing 500-1000 lists, just recently played my first 1500 game, and I find it really hard to make a good list around the lower levels. Dwarfs give me a hard time with all their warmachines as well as their almost broken magic deffence. Beastmen are really fun to play against, but since we lack shooting, and they bring atleast as much magic as we doo, it boils down to close combat, and their core hit lika 2 trucks.

Ogres have been fun and challanging to face, they are hard as nails and got some nasty suprises. High elves are also very nasty to face, they generate so much combat resolutions with swordmasters and white lions its crazy. I had a 30 strong unit of skeletons vaporize to my opponents 14 swordmasters in one round of combat, granted he rolled above average and killed 18 skeletons that one round :D

But I still feel that I have a chance to pull a win vs them all, and that is what's so great about the book!!

I also feel like I can use everything in the army book without gimping myself, well the zombie dragon and coven throne might not be optimal, but I still use the dragon, because I dont find anything wrong with it, it's warmachines that are broken, not the monsters...

SideshowLucifer
25-04-2012, 16:41
They are a lot more fun to play then they used to be. The new book allows you to build and play various lists without feeling like your playing with a handicap. So far, I'm really enjoying the book and the only time I truly struggle to feel competitive is against some of last edition's power houses.

Darnok
25-04-2012, 17:57
I've mostly been playing 500-1000 lists, just recently played my first 1500 game, [...] but I still use the dragon...

Illegal, since the smallest game where you can possibly field a zombie dragon is 1860 points. :eyebrows:

Maoriboy007
25-04-2012, 22:17
I can understand when people say they are much more fun to play against, but I always get the impression that they are kind of saying "Cool, They took away all the advantages you used to have but left the weakness' for me to exploit" that kind of gets my hackles up, yeah I bet you think they are much better to play against now-jerk. ;)

Really, I think it is the new variety of the book that is its big selling point of the VC. Thier power levels don't seem to move much, but the look and feel of the army can really change from game to game if you want it to.

Against medium level armies (in composition and tier) I find them pretty even , against top tier armies they struggle but can eke out a win or draw with some luck.

Texhnolyze
25-04-2012, 22:25
Illegal, since the smallest game where you can possibly field a zombie dragon is 1860 points. :eyebrows:

Ok I wasn't clear enough :D I have played mostly 500-1000 games. But in the 2500 pts List I planned for a campaign, I am using the dragon :D

Rosstifer
25-04-2012, 22:45
I haven't played with mine yet, focusing too much on other things. Played against them 4 times with my Warriors (The Tzeentch Knight bus list, which is admittedly pretty rock hard) and tabled them every time, and in 4 games, lost 260 VP's (2 warshrines).

Suffice to say, from my experience Warriors are quite tough for Vamps to deal with.

Having said that, 3 of those 4 player would 100% give me a much tougher game if I played them again, getting used to a new list is always hard. The other guy had a poor list and refused any form of advice after the game, so meh, guess he won't be improving anytime soon.

Only one list had Terrorghiests, and they scared the hell out of me, only lucky 3++ Ward Saves stopped my Chaos Lord on a Disk dying horribly!

tmarichards
26-04-2012, 07:38
MY team-mate is still doing very well with the Knight bus, but the most common build is the 2x8 Crypt Horror list, which so far seems to be doing alright.

Wesser
26-04-2012, 09:34
Im doing fairly well.

I'm having very real problems against High Elves though...

What has worked well:

Blender Lord. Have managed to get him fighting all the right units, so he's done magnificently
Skeletons: Surprisingly resilient even if people pass even fear bomb LD tests all the time. Maybe I've just been lucky with them...
Mortis Engine: That +2 has meant its been possible to actually try and cast multiple spells instead of throwing all your dice at 2-3. The aura has also been responsible for cleaning up many damaged units in the late game.
Blood Knights: When something rides through a horde of rat ogres as if the werent there it just brings a smile to your face. A vampire with MR 2 in the unit rly cause dismay in SoM games too

What has worked less well:
Vargheists. People are just afraid of them so they tend to get the same treatment as my outriders. I've barely managed to get into combat with them... and when I did high elves...hurts
Corpse Carts: The ASF thing is only useful against High Elves. The rest of the time it dont matter. The upgrades are useful, but I've found it too expensive for its small impact.
Dire wolves. Can't keep them alive
Konrad: Worked well against ogres, but badly for the spirit of the game...heh... but i just had to try it...once

Sexiest_hero
26-04-2012, 10:15
They do just fine against balanced books, and not ok against the OP 7th books that are left. Jobs a good one. Lots of people Loaded up on hex wraiths got crushed and rage quit, but then they deserve that for putting too much stock in the interwebs.

Hell Storm
26-04-2012, 15:33
I was playing VCs for about a year before the book change. I was upset when I started realizing that (last book) there were only 3-4 good units that I felt were worth taking. I was about to change armies because i came from 40k where spam lists were everywhere and that is just how you played. But now that the new book has come out, I love it. Lately, I have been writing anti-spam lists for the vampires; I never duplicate a single choice. I find that the flexibility that it provides is worth it ever time. I have hammer units, anvils, war machine hunters, and support all in the same list. I have about a 3:1 win ratio with these kind of lists and that is what I like; balanced, all-comers list that are good.

The only thing that I don't like about the book change is the removal of skirmishers from the wraith and banshee unit. Other than that it feels like the same army but with everything being viable.

IcedCrow
26-04-2012, 15:36
Spam lists are balls. One reason I'm not as much of a 40k fan.

Clockwork
26-04-2012, 22:38
Ok, I'll bite. Spam lists = spamming one unit type over and over? Any classic 40k examples?

Sexiest_hero
26-04-2012, 22:54
Every 40k army ever. I don't think its that bad, every "Unit" in the modern military is pretty much a carbon copy. Codexes broke 5th edition

Rosstifer
26-04-2012, 23:23
Ok, I'll bite. Spam lists = spamming one unit type over and over? Any classic 40k examples?

Chaos Space Marines for one.

2x Lash Princes

4x 7 Plague Marines in Rhinos

3x 3 Obliterators

And that is literally the list. *Yawn*

Ville
27-04-2012, 19:33
This week I shall face my biggest challenge yet: 3K points of Empire nastiness. I can't wait!

And what an epic success it was! I had a buttload of Zombies, Ghouls, Knights and Ghosts, against his massed infantry, artillery and Griffon Lord.

He blew the head off my lvl. 4 Necromancer with a cannonball, destroyed my Black Knights and shut down my magic phase. Still, I managed to smash his lines with my deathstar unit: 50 Ghouls with combat Lord and Razor Standard bsb. The Griffon was poisoned to death and my Vamp Lord could not be cannon sniped, so things went quickly south for the Empire. Funny, regarding the fact that I've suffered my most severe spankings in the hands of Empire before.

Definitely my finest hour yet! :yes: