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Corax
30-04-2006, 13:06
I've been a longtime 40K player, but these days I seem to know more Fantasy players than 40kers, so I'm thinking of biting the bullet (arrow?) and starting Fantasy.

Anyway, I've always had a bit of a soft spot for Khorne, but I've heard/read that Khornate armies are not that good. Is this true? Or is it vile propaganda from that shifty ponce Slaanesh? :evilgrin:

Insane Alex
30-04-2006, 13:25
It's true. Due to the rules of Fantasy, Khornate armies can often be lead by a leash around the tabletop; it's far better to go with an Undivided army with a strong Khornate leaning.

ZomboCom
30-04-2006, 13:33
Yup, Khorne armies are desperately boring to play in fantasy, because as soon as you get close to the enemy you lose all control of them, and you are forced to charge the closest enemy all the time.

Neknoh
30-04-2006, 13:54
T-t-t

You are all forgetting that you can controll your frenzy in several ways, first of all, you don't even have to charge the closest unit within frenzy-range.

So, what I'd like to say is that Khorne is actually rather challenging to play, especially if you throw in some Beastherds and a Beastlord with the daemonsword, Khorne becommes a force to be reckoned with.

You won't use lots of sorcerors, that is a given, however, magical protection isn't an issue with khorne, nor is killingpower in close combat. Movement and self-controll is very important aspects to handle as a khornate player, for allofasudden, that Exalted Champion helping your Marauders might charge at an enemy unit you didn't think was in range, he will then promptly get beaten unless you're damn lucky with your rolls.

So, I'd say go for a try, but remember, Khorne works best when using units both from the Hordes and the Beasts of Chaos books

Latro
30-04-2006, 16:49
Anyway, I've always had a bit of a soft spot for Khorne, but I've heard/read that Khornate armies are not that good. Is this true? Or is it vile propaganda from that shifty ponce Slaanesh? :evilgrin:

You need to be a good player to get the most out of the Khornate forces.

Unfortunately, they are often judged by their performance in the hands of "less experienced" generals ... which tends people to believe that frenzied troops are easy to deal with.

... which is true if you let them.

If you have a firm grasp of tactics, movement and timing however, it's not that hard to make the army do what you want ... which is of course some good ol' fashioned butchering in the name of Khorne. :evilgrin:

Blood for the Blood God!


:cool:

sigur
30-04-2006, 17:34
This might sound old, but:
Choose your army because of background, looks, miniatures and the general idea, because that's what you'll spend the most time with. I can't imagine how it can be satisfying if you choose the army a bunch of strangers call "the strongest around" (which ist most of the time connected to terms like "broken", "cheese" and "overpowered") and win with that one.

ROCKY
30-04-2006, 18:22
Khorne is one of the most powerful army in warhammer, as long as you plan your moves ahead of time, plus as Nekoh pointed out magic will not be a major issue here. Get some hounds/furies/herds and have a strategy and all should end well.

vcassano
30-04-2006, 18:50
Seeing as how they are a fairly straightforward army in terms of no shooting or magic, just combat and movement, they'd probably be ideal for you, as a beginner to Warhammer. Also if you like the models and background of teh army, go ahead.

BloodiedSword
30-04-2006, 19:17
Unlike in 40K, Khornate forces cannot simply hurl their troops at the enemy as fast as possible and expect to win. If anything, WFB Khorne armies tend to require more planning and careful maneuvering than other armies to keep their Frenzied natures in check.

Neknoh
01-05-2006, 00:11
I'd suggest having a flick through the following thread to get a good feal, also, feel free to ask questions about Khorne on there, we generals of Chaos will gladly help aspiring champions such as you.

http://warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=934

manicmarine
01-05-2006, 11:36
I have always seen khorne armies as a one trick pony and any gamer worth his salt will explote the weekness of no magic and no shooty troups. Most players find it difficult to keep the troups heading in the same direction due to the frenzy etc. but when they hit home they are devistation incarnate. Just have to make sure that the whole army moves together

Neknoh
01-05-2006, 11:59
As said, the "no magic, no shooting" part is a common flaw in the Khornate armies, however, you can catch your opponent off guard if you include the following:

4 units of 5 Centigors armed with Throwing Axes, that is 20 strength 5 bs3 shots.
Hellcannon of Chaos (big and VERY nasty warmachine that isn't even all too unfluffy).

Your opponent would never be prepared for something like that if he/she heard you were fielding Khorne.

BloodiedSword
01-05-2006, 13:11
Of course, there are significant downsides to those -

The Centigors would cost, what, 100 for 400 pts of unit? That's some major ouch there.. plus they are very short ranged, though they do pack a punch when you get to use them.

The Hellcannon is very nasty, but I'm not convinced it's worth its insane points cost - in fact, I'm pretty sure it's not. Still, with the lack of other options it may be worth considering..

Neknoh
01-05-2006, 13:27
A Hellcannon can be worth it if used properly and you are decent at guessing distances (something which makes it hard to use by people used to the 40k ordnance system).

A Hellcannon can also be dragged into combat where it will cause a LOT of hurt to the enemy lines.

heck... I think I'll write up a Hellcannon tactica to help people with it, I did it for Shaggoths

der_lex
01-05-2006, 13:46
As a Hellcannon enthousiast, I'd have to say it's definitemy worth it.
It is capable of destroying entire units by itself (I'm not in favor of the 'units have to earn their points back' theory, but the HC has earned its hefty cost back in every game in which I've fielded it) and more importantly, it gives Chaos a significant tactical advantage by keeping your opponent from simply sitting there and waiting for you to march to him.

It also pretty much protects an entire flank just by standing there...

samw
01-05-2006, 16:07
A Hellcannon can be worth it if used properly and you are decent at guessing distances (something which makes it hard to use by people used to the 40k ordnance system).

A Hellcannon can also be dragged into combat where it will cause a LOT of hurt to the enemy lines.

heck... I think I'll write up a Hellcannon tactica to help people with it, I did it for Shaggoths

I for one would love to read that, your shaggoth tactica turned my opinion around completely!

Anyway, khorne can rock, especially his knights, but just leave the mark off the chariots. ;)

junx13
01-05-2006, 16:24
Perhaps you can check out here for some advice how to handle frenzy:

http://s7.invisionfree.com/wyrmling_x/index.php?showtopic=945

Neknoh
01-05-2006, 16:40
Tactica up and running now, look into it if you want information about the Hellcannon (not as thorough as the Shaggoth tactica though, Lex is the real Hellcannon fanatic).

http://warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=34145

Marduk
01-05-2006, 18:41
Rather then start a whole new thread or add this to the HOC thread I decided to post in here, so here goes...

After looking through HOC and BOC including all my "hero" chaos models and daemon units ( I got a box of Plaugebearers, Damonettes and bloodletters on top of 3 nurgling blisters heh ) etc, I have decided on Khorne being my main army for WHFB, I have a few reasons for doing this and I will explain why...

1- I already have a good 1500 points of Emperors Children for 40k including a sonic dread and and 2 sets of fw doors, makes sense that I keep the sacred 12 damonettes I got for this army as much as a slaanesh HOC army sounds cool I dont want to make two slaanesh armies right now heh.

2- With that new nurgle DP coming out I might as well use my PB ( I also hear these guys are kinda so so for FB ) and nurglings for a nurgle force to use along side my EC army, all I need to do is really add the dp and a box of death guard and hey mini force to test out!

3- I have always loved the pure brutality of Khorne, it just screams to me battle and bloodspilling...and as much as I think WE are cool for 40k, in my view right now its very hard to resist some of the whfb khorne models and raw brutal look they have painted up on this gods colors, so its also a theme thing and lets face it with what I have so far its about time I start painting so I can spill some blood this summer! plus im a noob to fb hehe.

Anyway, I have some questions and the models I have right now need to be taken into consideration, I guess you could say I am looking for advice while not going totaly cookie cutter.

What I have-

1 Khorne Champion
1 Lord Of Khorne
1 Box of Bloodletters including Full Command ( thats 12 to be exact since one from the box was miscast and I used it for test scheme )
1 Box of Chaos Warriors ( 10 )
1 Box Of Chaos Knights ( 6 in total I got a blister for my original slaanesh sacred 6 knight unit I had planned )
3 Chaos Ogres
1 Beastherd Box
1 Chaos Chariot

Basicly I am looking to make this a full 2k point army and I am not looking for a cookie cutter khorne army and certainly no undivided warriors, I know they have alot of good points but I am theming this to be khorne so all units that can be marked I would like to keep marked, I am even painting up the beastherd and chaos ogres in reds and brass ( cant wait to start work on these guys tonight! ) with that semi pale blue khorne skin the EM team does up.

Now I know I am lacking the MUST needed Warhounds and believe me in the coming weeks I plan to get 1 or maybe 2 boxes, at first I hated the models but when I saw their use for a khorne army I changed my mind also cause I got a cool paint scheme in mind now without making them look too much like felsh hounds which I have considered anyway.

Onto marauders, yea I hear all the time how great these guys are as fodder but I really really do not want to have to paint a unit of damn 20+ with all that skin and blending and crap to make them look good, in fact the thought of painting even 10 makes me shudder, sorry I hate these models lol.

So my questions are to you khorne pros out there-

With what I have now, am I off to a good start other then not having the hounds right now? what should I add ? more knights ( 8 ???? ) make the warriors a unit of 16 or 20 ? more beastherds ? as far as the ogres go...this is more of theme thing but the thought of having those cool marauder looking orgres done up in a khorne style really makes me smile, should I beef these guys up to say 4 or even 8 hahaha ? I would even consider making this a 3k army if it will work better that way with so many expensive units.

Anyway as I said I still a big noob when it comes to FB but I am set on khorne and I am reasonably sure I will enjoy building and painting this army, I hate magic and shooting does not interest me, eventualy I will learn how to work around the frenzy till then I am just looking for tips on how I can make good use of my existing models while not making a horrible list.

Thanks for any help

Neknoh
01-05-2006, 19:07
Warriors of Khorne are the few that can be used in numbers of 12 or even 10 as long as you have a frontage of five or six of them, however, 15 might work better, for if you deploy them in three rows of 5, they will gain their ranks and keep a large frontage.

Marauders, unless used for cannonfodder, should be used in units of 20 to 25 if they are to be used as main blocks.

Knights rarely need to go above 5, 6 can be nice but 8 is overkill by far.
A group of 4 knights of Khorne will also be a perfect and comparably cheap way of thinning out enemy ranks before hitting home with something larger.

Beastherds is something a Khornate general with controll over both mortals nd beasts cannot be without (if you don't have a BoC book, marauders and hounds work fine for screening, but Beastherds are better).

Chaos Ogres is something which you do not need, unless you give them Shields and Heavy Armour so that they can hold a flank, for Ogre-sized units generate combat res. through kills, which minotaurs are so much better at doing for less points, so I'd go for 4 of them, since they can still rip any skirmishers or Knights appart and if you manage to smack them into a flank, they WILL stay there.

Kharnath
02-05-2006, 15:47
just another pick on what people say as our major weaknesses.

frenzy - people seem to think that i or we are powerless to stop our units being led round by the nose by any old cheap thing. this is simply wrong. with good screens you dont reveal the enemy untill you want your guys to see them. and if you do end up being led round, use your faster units to stop that.
marauder horsemen, this are essential guys in a chaos force in my experience, they can chase skirmishers, help flanking, hunt mages and warmachines and help get rid of other fast units trying to lead your units around.

dont forget that frenzy also means we dont care about pyscology (unless theyve lost combat b4) and we have an extra attack, that alone is worth its wieght in gold when even your regular sword and board warriors charge.

no magic or shooting. weve got the hell cannon but ill skip that as its not yet a instant choice for most generals. so what? id ont get to cast well to be fair neither will you with my dispels and magic resistance. and if you do itll be a few crappy spells you get off that really wont win you the game.

shooting? again so what? are all armies the empire? shoudl every army need to be activ ein every phase? shooting is not a part of any chaos players main strat, aside form throwing axes and the cannon. so this is not a khorne weakness. its an army trait.

the upsides to our, IMO very minor downsides, is were monsters when we get there and the more people that think were easy to get on a leash the better to be honest, it comes as a shock when the hounds go down first and they realise they cant do what everyone was telling them would be so easy to do.

blood for the blood god
skulls for the skull throne of khorne.