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Jegsar
02-05-2012, 22:31
Lore of death spell targets a model in a unit with the Rune Maw banner.
The banner says "Spell that do not specifically target the unit are not affected by the Rune Maw".
If the spell targets a single model, does it specifically target the unit?

Hell Storm
03-05-2012, 11:38
I would say no. Targeting a unit isn't the same as targeting a model.

Mercules
03-05-2012, 13:05
Where is the model? If it is in the unit then you are still specifically targeting a portion of the unit. The item also doesn't state the entire unit has to be a target, just the unit which can include a portion of the unit.

Mid'ean
03-05-2012, 14:53
I had something similar to this happen to me at the Colonial GT. A O&G player had the wizards hat and Death and tried to go after my characters. After I bounced the first one he wondered if he could target another character in the unit. I didn't see any reason why not so I let him. I bounced that one and he went after my 3rd dude in the unit. He was just hoping that I would fail one of my rolls.....:D

T10
03-05-2012, 17:57
Where is the model? If it is in the unit then you are still specifically targeting a portion of the unit. The item also doesn't state the entire unit has to be a target, just the unit which can include a portion of the unit.

Where is the model? If it's on the table then you are specifically targeting a portion of the models on the table. The item also doesn't state all models on the table have to be the target, just the unit, which is clearly a portion of the models on the table.

Mercules
03-05-2012, 18:41
Ok, I know the term Strawman gets tossed around a lot(very often incorrectly) , but I have to admit T10, that is a perfect example.

Audust
04-05-2012, 11:20
It says on p.99 under characters and combined units that "whilst a character is part of a unit, both he and the unit are treated as a single combined unit for all rules purposes". In my head this means that attacks that targets a specific model or character (such as certain death spells, sniper special rule etc.) still targets the unit.

T10
04-05-2012, 12:52
It says on p.99 under characters and combined units that "whilst a character is part of a unit, both he and the unit are treated as a single combined unit for all rules purposes". In my head this means that attacks that targets a specific model or character (such as certain death spells, sniper special rule etc.) still targets the unit.

I don't think so. Let's say the spell reduces the character's Strength by 1 point, then clearly that character has been singled out distinctly from the rest of the unit: The other models in the unit do not suffer the effect of the spell because the have not been targeted.

-T10

T10
04-05-2012, 12:53
Ok, I know the term Strawman gets tossed around a lot(very often incorrectly) , but I have to admit T10, that is a perfect example.

Thank you. It is good to see one's efforts are noticed.

-T10

Lord Inquisitor
04-05-2012, 13:05
Well, let's see if an analogy will help.

WoC have a magic standard, the Blasted Standard, that gives the unit a 5+ ward against shooting. Would a character in the unit not get the save against sniper shots, that specifically target the character not the unit?

Mercules
04-05-2012, 13:12
Let me put it this way.

By targeting a character in the unit, are you in anyway targeting the unit?

To put it another way, if the army had an army wide rule that protected the army from being targeted would you claim targeting units in that army does not trigger that protection?

Audust
04-05-2012, 14:16
If the character is part of a unit, and if he gets targeted, yes, you are actually targetting the unit as per the rules on p.99. If a spell reduces a chosen characters strebgth by 1, it is because of the spells description. As per the rules, you are targeting the unit, but the spell only affects the target model. Yes it says that you target a specific model in most of these circumstances and I think we can discuss this forever. I don't really care, I was just putting my two cent out there.

T10
04-05-2012, 14:21
Well, let's see if an analogy will help.

WoC have a magic standard, the Blasted Standard, that gives the unit a 5+ ward against shooting. Would a character in the unit not get the save against sniper shots, that specifically target the character not the unit?

The blasted standard targets the unit with an effect that grants the models a 5+ ward save.

A Hochland Longrifle targets one of the models with an effect that causes a Strength 4 hit.

See the difference?

T10
04-05-2012, 14:27
Let me put it this way.

To put it another way, if the army had an army wide rule that protected the army from being targeted would you claim targeting units in that army does not trigger that protection?

I am intrigued. How would you phrase such a rule?