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Dark Primus
09-05-2012, 07:17
Just wondering out of curiousity if anyone here has tried their Nid army with the old codex fight Nids with the new codex???
I have been trying to find battle reports of such battles with no luck.
A friend want to use his old codex and try it against me with the new dex.
I am not a Nid player but I think I understand how to play it, have tested Nids in the past and I think it could be an interesting experience I want to see how such a battle would play out.

Dazza612
09-05-2012, 08:23
I haven't tested this but I'm pretty sure new nids would win. Hive guard, tervigons, Trygons, tyrannofexes, cheaper gaunts, ymgarls. The only thing the old codex has over the new codex apart from cheaper fexes is the ability to give the equivalent of frag grenades to more models

Vsurma
09-05-2012, 08:39
Whaaat, the old codex would kick ass. (edit, could go either way)

I would just run my old zilla nid list.

2 tyrant, devourer/venom cannon and a tyrant guard each
3 elite fex with dual devourers
2 heavy fex with venom/dev
3 zoans with warp blast or whatever it was called and scream
2*6 stealers

This was for 1500pts iirc and is not even tailored to fight nids specifically, it was my old tournament list.
It will shoot most anything off the table while moving onto objectives.

With the way the old devourers worked if I can get within 24" of your MCs they go down fairly fast, well anything expensive will go down fairly fast.

There are some really nice new things that would work on this match-up but I would say without tailoring the old one wins. Once you start tailoring then I imagine the new one might just become unbeatable.

Just throwing some 20man FNP genestealer units in will make it hard on the old lists since so little negates that FNP. The new poison also makes gaunts/horms/gargoyles rather rough...

I can see it going either way, very much depending on the lists being used. Could be an interesting idea.

Might just give it a try now that the idea has been planted.

Vsurma
09-05-2012, 08:50
I haven't tested this but I'm pretty sure new nids would win. Hive guard, tervigons, Trygons, tyrannofexes, cheaper gaunts, ymgarls. The only thing the old codex has over the new codex apart from cheaper fexes is the ability to give the equivalent of frag grenades to more models

Hive guards need support, the old devourers (re-roll to hit AND wound! on MCs) would destroy them and their 4+ save, same deal with the old Venom Cannons being ap4 if they ever get shots out of cover (a rare situation granted) but the dual dev tyrants or fexs would absolutely destroy hive guard causing 6/4.5 wounds each turn for each 110-120 point MC shooting.

Tervigons give FNP, this would be huge since very little in the old book negates it on mass units like horms/gargoyles/stealers. The gaunts are also nice but the 190pts tervigon effectively makes the same amount of gaunts as a dual dev tyrant kills each turn, only difference is that the tervigon stops doing it on average on turn 3. So you really need to get a lot out of that fnp since it effectively costs 70pts on the turns it is spawning and about 190pts the following turns, not counting the few S5 attacks the tervigon can contribute or its S5 template. (some value there ofc)

I think the match could be won with either book but it really depends on whether we are talking about average lists, tournament lists or tailored lists.

Dazza612
09-05-2012, 08:57
you can still make a decent nid zilla list in this codex. Tervigons, tyrannofexes, hive tyrant, fexes, trygons, mawlocs and tyrannofexes. hive guards can be supported very nicely by a shield of cheap gaunts giving them cover and also a tervigon giving them feel no pain and/or the ability to run and shoot for better positioning. But yes old MC devourers were awesome, I miss cheap dakka fexes.

Dazza612
09-05-2012, 09:00
Also I wonder how the doom would do in spore against the old codex, I have seen it destroy marines, dark eldar and other armies before it gets shot off the board.

Dark Primus
09-05-2012, 09:05
One advantage I remember, the old Nids had all eternal warrior, making them last longer. And they autopass leadership tests. So weapons with special rules that forces enemy units to take leadership tests will be useless against the old Nids. Doom of Malantai wont work on the old nids for example so I can skip it.

nedius
09-05-2012, 12:06
I'd love to try this myself, so I'll look forward to the battle report!

If you're game, though, I'd suggest a 'best of 3' series; each round taking a different 'style' of army 'Nidzilla', 'Horde/Stealer shock' and 'Balanced'.

Dark Primus
09-05-2012, 18:34
I am uncertain what units I should be fielding. CC army or shooty army? I remember the Dakka Nid units my opponent prefer to use are Dakka Hive Tyrant think it was 12 shots with re-roll to hit and to wound, range 18" that's nightmare.
Dakka warriors with loads of small blasts and a Nidzilla list to it most likely.

Against a Nidzilla list, genestealers seems to be the best option to counter them, gaunts with toxic sacks, should hurt.

nedius
09-05-2012, 20:01
Hence why you should do the series of three! Two 'themed' and one free for all!

Morgrad
09-05-2012, 22:45
If we're tailoring 'nids v. 'nids, I think the new list would pound the old one. Poison on all the gribblies means that anything can hammer MCs. AG/TS/LW/BS warriors would destroy almost anything it hit in the old book. The new biovores would rock 3e swarms.

I honestly think I could defeat just about any 4e 'nid list by bringing 90 AG/TS gargoyles, 9 biovores, and as many AG/TS/LW/BS/devourer warriors as I had points for. If we're playing 2500 I'd bring the swarmlord and some guard as well. 5e tyranids who know that they're facing zero vehicles would be nigh-unbeatable by anything but daemons, and they're mostly luck.

Don't get me wrong -- I **LOVED** the old 'nids and miss many things about them -- I just think that the new 'nids are just about tailor-made to annihilate them.

Eldartank
09-05-2012, 23:37
This is a cool idea. Along with all the other suggestions, you might also want to try a game where the army composition is as similar as possible for both the "old codex" and "new codex" armies. For example, each army fielding 1 Hive Tyrant, 1 brood of Genestealers, 2 broods of termagants. Make the two opposing armies as identical as possible considering the fact that there might be different point costs for similar units in the two codexes. It would be interesting to see how 2 Tyranid armies fielding similar units would do against each other using different rule sets.

Battleworthy Arts
09-05-2012, 23:39
Wrong thread. Please delete.

Nurgling Chieftain
10-05-2012, 00:31
I would be more interested in an Old Chaos/New Chaos showdown. The current plague marines and berzerkers are well ahead of their older counterparts overall, and while Daemon Princes aren't as powerful, they're a lot more points efficient and you can have two of them. (Lash versus Siren might be a wash...)

Dazza612
10-05-2012, 02:45
Wasn't the eternal warrior thing a result of an faq hough and not actually written in the old nid codex? But yes this would be huge, masses of leaping warriors with rending and adrenal glands. Expensive but packs a real punch in cc.

Nurgling Chieftain
10-05-2012, 04:02
Wasn't the eternal warrior thing a result of an faq hough and not actually written in the old nid codex?...No, it was most definitely in the codex.

Dazza612
10-05-2012, 04:30
I only played the nids using the old codex a few times, before the new codex came out so a bit hazy on the old codex. I still think the new codex would win, but not by much and only if both codexes tailored there lists. I think the old list would have trouble taking down lots of FNP stuff, multiple trygons/mawlocs and tyrannofexes.

Scaryscarymushroom
10-05-2012, 16:14
I haven't tested this but I'm pretty sure new nids would win. Hive guard, tervigons, Trygons, tyrannofexes, cheaper gaunts, ymgarls. The only thing the old codex has over the new codex apart from cheaper fexes is the ability to give the equivalent of frag grenades to more models

Depends on whether you used 4th edition or 5th edition rules. Or if you used a hybrid, applying rules from one edition to one army while applying rules from another edition to the other army.

Genestealers from the 4th edition book could take preferred enemy against everything for only +1 point per model. Of course, in fourth edition the rule for preferred enemy was questionably worth that much. But in 5th edition that kind of upgrade would be a no-brainer.

de Selby
10-05-2012, 16:30
I'd suggest using 5th ed because it's the only rule set that both codices have actually been valid for.

My usual tyranid army actually got better in the new codex, mostly because all my hormagaunts got cheaper. However I play a far from optimised list. I'd be interested to see the old nidzilla up against the new tervigons and hive guard and what have you.

Nurgling Chieftain
10-05-2012, 16:34
Genestealers from the 4th edition book could take preferred enemy against everything for only +1 point per model.That option was mutually exclusive with flesh hooks, IIRC.