View Full Version : So, are we not getting it?

01-05-2006, 03:07
My wife and I just played a game after about 8 months of not playing, and we both walked away slightly unsatisfied. Most of our games (Chaos vs. Dwarfs) involve her hanging back and me charing forward for three turns. Then, sometimes some clever maneuvering lets me get the charge, and sometimes she gets it. But then the rest of the game is a dice fest.

Granted, most of our games are pitched battles, but breakthroughs aren't fair to the Dwarf player and most other scenarios involve a bunch of weird rules that require way too much look-up time.

So I guess I have two questions.

1) Is there something we could be doing to make our games more... dynamic? I suck at laying terrain, so maybe that's the problem.

2) We're hesitant to introduce anything more complex, because the rules are so all over the place in the book, and don't cover even half of the weird situations we run into. We still don't know when a fleeing unit makes its flee roll if its gets overrun into, so it seems a little unit of stubby dwarfs can cover half the board in one turn. Or, for example - when a unit is charged in the flank, does it ever turn and face its attackers, or are they stuck in that formation until the end? Weird. Is the new rulebook going to streamline some of this stuff for us?

I guess my questions boil down to: Are we playing too simplistic a game for it to be any fun?


01-05-2006, 03:29
Warhammer is not simplistic! It should be about careful maneuvering and not simply running towards the other guys and hoping you roll well. It seems that you aren't using armies that require strategy. If you just have a bunch of cavalry, and your Most Devious Plan is to run forwards and hope like hell you win, then you aren't going to get too much of a kick out of Warhammer. However, if you use those tricksy troops like fast cavalry and skirmishers, you can start to introduce some strategy. Instead of trying to roll higher than the other person, you're trying to get your flanking units in place and stop them from being attacked while your main battleline approaches. I admit, Dwarves don't seem like a very strategic army (no offense to dwarf players), as you sit back and shoot the other guys. They can't move very much, so they ignore the movement (ie, strategy) phase and go straight on to shooting. However, if your armies include some troops that require thought to use, then it can be a worthwhile hobby.

01-05-2006, 03:30
When a fleeing unit is charged, it flees automatically at that moment (overrunning counts as charging).

If a unit is charged in the flank or rear, it never turns to face attackers ever. You can move a character within the unit to anywhere you want during your movement phase if he wasn't already engaged, but otherwise you are stuck. It is rumored that this may change in the new edition.

I think that one of the problems is actually that one of the players is using Dwarves. No offense to any dwarf players on here meant, but in my opinion Dwarves generally do not make for very interesting/dynamic games. They don't tend to move much, they just sit there and shoot, shoot, shoot. Gunlines usually turn into a dice-fest. They may have one or two units that maneuver for counter charges, but it doesn't change their static nature too much. If the Dwarf player would field more close combat units and maybe the anvil to aid in maneuvering, you'd have some more varied battles. It gets kind of boring playing against an army repeatedly where that army doesn't maneuver much at all.

Terrain can make a difference as well, but I don't think that is the main issue.

01-05-2006, 04:33
You're playing with the wrong army. Dwarfs don't do anything in Warhammer except stand still and wait for something to happen that they can react to. Dull and boring.

Put the Dwarfs away and use any other army, and your games will become interesting.

01-05-2006, 04:37
choose different armies, as that what dwarf chaos end up becoming.

Mad Makz
01-05-2006, 04:47
I disagree about Dwarfs being static, they CAN be quite a dynamic army, however a lot of how they work is in the deployment and late game manouvering.

Dwarfs are what I would call a 'late game' army, or at least non 'gunline' dwarfs are late game. They are about 4-5 turns of setting up to receive charges/bog down opposing units so that they can wear them down and then turn the game in turns 5-6 because of their superior sticking power.

This doesn't make them non dynamic, but it does make them somewhat less interactive. You are playing the first 4 turns not against what your opponents ARE doing, but against what position you expect your opponent to be in on turns 5 and 6 so you can exploit it. If your opponent doesn't do anything different, and you aren't winning fairly consistently (to force them to change their tactics) then the game is always going to become repetitive.

The problem is not so much how you are playing the game, but that by the sounds of it you don't have access to a large pool of players with which to experiment with different tactics. It's very hard to change unless you can see what the alternatives are - as such innovation is very hard in a vacuum.

If you can get to a tournament (don't worry about winning, just about learning) then you'll probably find your home games become more dynamic as you will have first hand experience of a wide range of tactics to try.

01-05-2006, 04:50
wow change a few words and your in need of a couples therapist. But on a side note, perhaps dare her to take nothing but melee with her dwarves and maybe she'll spice things up with some surprise maneuvers that you can react to. i think your marriage just ruined the innocence of my hobby.

01-05-2006, 09:09
come up with a campaign, give your armies some back stories

and yes try varying your armys and army lists a bit more

01-05-2006, 11:58
As Chaos player who usually plays against Dwarves, I'd like to beg to differ on the 'Chaos vs Dwarves is always boring' part. In the hands of at least fairly decent generals, it can be a very exciting match-up.

I do think that, daunting as it may be, you should add some more 'difficult' units to the game. You'll have to look up a lot of things during play at first, but once you add more magic and more of the psychology rules to the game, it obviously becomes a lot more complex than one army marching and the other standing still and shooting. You basically get from the game what you put into it.

You're playing with the wrong army. Dwarfs don't do anything in Warhammer except stand still and wait for something to happen that they can react to. Dull and boring.

If that's your (or your opponent's) idea of how a dwarf army works, then you are sorely mistaken, my friend...

01-05-2006, 16:45
My friend plays a nurgle-cavalry heavy army and I play Dwarfs. I try to make it interesting by taking less shooting units and more melee weapons. In a two thousand point game I had one unit of thunderers and that's it, it leads to really interesting games. If you know that it's going to wind up being a boring "you charge, she stands." type of game just restrict the use of war machines and handgunners. Also Gyrocopters always add an interesting flavour to the game.

01-05-2006, 17:11
1. Play with more terrain. Good pieces of terrain even out a shooty vs. assaulty fight. You'll find that she will have to take different units and play differently when there are pieces that block line of sight.

2. When you play with more terrain, you'll be forced to actually move, rather than just stand there and roll dice. The Dwarf player will have to deploy around the terrain and use units that rely on mobility. You'll have to also depend on mobility to get around and through intervening terrain to get at the dwarf player.

3. This will lead you to take different units and play the game differently.

4. Build some tree stands. They're the easiest to build. Lots of them, and lay them all over the board. If the dwarf player complains, then the player isn't playing a list that's balanced enough to still have a shot at winning.

01-05-2006, 17:12
Switch the armies around for a change! Well, to be honest, I hope you've been doing that already...

There are other rules you can come up with yourselves, like night or mist-fighting (e.g. can only see 2 x the artillery dice inches in front every turn). You could come up with a simple, "one unit may enter on a flank on a random turn" type rule... anything your imagination can conceive! But really, Chaos vs Dwarfs is one of the most boring combinations, with all that dwarfy artillery and no chaos shooting. Buy a Hellcannon or have the Chaos player go nuts on magic maybe?