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Paintandship
21-05-2012, 07:56
Trying to figure out a way to make a good all-comers list for 1000 points.

My last list didn't fair very well in games against empire. The list was:

Herald of tzeentch
Mos
Lore of shadow

Herald of slaanesh
torment blade (for +1 att)

39 Deamonettes
standard bearer
champion

5 Furies

3 flamers
3 flamers

As i said this list failed hard against an empire army which had a captain on a pegasus(i think) with a 1+ re-rollable armour save. More or less nothing in my army could kill this and it tied up the daemonette block for the entire game while he killed my smaller units and won by just over 100 points every game. There really wasn't anything i could do here and the Herald of tzeentch gets killed very easily even when trying to hide with no unit (which means no mind razor on daemonettes).

The next list am trying to come up with is something like this: (bloodletters for KB those annoying 1+ re-rollable saves)

Herald of Khorne

39 Bloodletters

5 flesh hounds

4 fiends of slaanesh

This list i think fills some gaps where the other list failed. It has a very solid killy centre and a speedy/ killy flank. Only problem is no magic support. I was thinking of buying a bunker for the Herald of tzeentch but that effectively doubles it's point cost and gives u another useless unit.

Has anyone had any similar problems at 1k points. I hope i can come to some solution to make a good all comers list at 1000 as the people i play against at my club love small - medium size games and play somewhat competitively (or at least try).
Please give feedback on these lists / thoughts.
Maybe I'm playing the wrong army but i wanna make this one work as i spent along time painting to a nice standard.

HalfBlood
22-05-2012, 22:01
1,000 points for daemons is pretty poor. Daemons are best seen at games around 2,500 points, however they still can be played at a 1,000 point level fairly descent.


Daemonettes usually work better then Bloodletters when it comes to syncing with magic. You must have had a few bad phases? The second list looks solid. I would drop the hounds or drop the fiends. Too much flanking/warmachine hunting. The list im thinking about looks like this.

Horde of leters + HoK [Hatred]

HoT MoS [Life or shadow]

1 Fiend (Their should not be too much warmachines/ranged units, your opponent will be worried about the 40 strong unit of letters)

5 Flamers (Some shooting, take out light armor units, or Large Targets)

You should have some points left over, all of this is just estimated off the top of my head

Gop
23-05-2012, 04:42
Agreed. At 1000pts a bloodthirster is getting rude and might be hard for many to handle if properly kitted. Then add in flamers. These little buggers are slightly broken and usually find a place in all my demon armies no matter the size. I would not be as worried about hordes in 1k either. You might do well to make 2 BL units.

GodlessM
23-05-2012, 04:45
Agreed. At 1000pts a bloodthirster is getting rude and might be hard for many to handle if properly kitted. Then add in flamers. These little buggers are slightly broken and usually find a place in all my demon armies no matter the size. I would not be as worried about hordes in 1k either. You might do well to make 2 BL units.

Am, what? Why is a Bloodthirster even being discussed for 1k when the game needs to be at least 1800pts before even a naked one becomes legal?

As for the army, I've seen 1k Daemons centred around a horde of Letters with Herald stomp everything in its path with ease.

Paintandship
23-05-2012, 07:02
Thanks for the tips guys, i'm going to try what HalfBlood said first then ill give breaking down the horde into 2 smaller units a go. I played a list with a horde of daemonettes agaisnt lizardmen (mainly saurus blocks) which went very badly for me. I just need more practice i think. I posted a detailed battle report with maps / pictures in the Heresy Online forums which ill have to post here too if anyone is interested.

HalfBlood
24-05-2012, 02:40
Agreed. At 1000pts a bloodthirster is getting rude and might be hard for many to handle if properly kitted. Then add in flamers. These little buggers are slightly broken and usually find a place in all my demon armies no matter the size. I would not be as worried about hordes in 1k either. You might do well to make 2 BL units.


Cant take a thirster in games under 1800 points due to the 25% Lord cap. You may want to look at the book before giving advice.

I rarely find 1,000 point games however 40 bloodletters is pretty strong at that point level, due to their weaknesses are not present like they are in bigger games.

GodlessM
24-05-2012, 20:33
Thanks for the tips guys, i'm going to try what HalfBlood said first then ill give breaking down the horde into 2 smaller units a go. I played a list with a horde of daemonettes agaisnt lizardmen (mainly saurus blocks) which went very badly for me. I just need more practice i think. I posted a detailed battle report with maps / pictures in the Heresy Online forums which ill have to post here too if anyone is interested.

I wouldn't say it is your tactics that are the issue, but rather the fact you are using Daemonettes. They just can't cut it against anything half sturdy in combat.

HalfBlood
25-05-2012, 04:11
I find daemonettes work way better with magic then bloodletters. Its just he doesnt have strong casters at 1K, and usually bloodletter hordes at low levels can do wonders.

GodlessM
26-05-2012, 04:46
I find daemonettes work way better with magic then bloodletters.

Regardless of game size, you just pointed outside yourself why Daemonettes aren't any good; they need magic to compete. Bloodletters work fine on their own tearing most enemies a new one. The odd Flesh to Stone is nice but they don't need the likes of Mindrazor to do damage.

HalfBlood
26-05-2012, 15:34
But then again they are weak because they have 1 attack at I 4. Reroll to hit first round of combat.

Why not have 2 attacks at I 5 with ASF? all you need is mindrazor, plus you get all the other debuff shadow magic (the withering/enfeebling foe) + PoS.

Letters work find at 1K, but once you get to games of 2K+ I suggest daemonettes all the way, especially when you can actually count on your magic.

Gop
29-05-2012, 02:39
Cant take a thirster in games under 1800 points due to the 25% Lord cap...

oops stuck in the past.

The 2 units is probably the better option in smaller games. Gives him 2 things to shoot at so hopefully the other unit can get into combat relatively unscathed.

GodlessM
29-05-2012, 04:02
Letters work find at 1K, but once you get to games of 2K+ I suggest daemonettes all the way, especially when you can actually count on your magic.

And once again we come to it; no, you can't rely on magic, ever. There is a multitude of ways it can go wrong; not rolling the spell (not applicable to Daemons albeit), crap winds of magic, failing to cast, getting dispelled, getting scrolled, getting killed before crunch time; these are only a few of the ways of how magic is fickle. Though if you want to bring magic into, then by all means; let's not forget the primary 'whine' of 8th edition is the killer spells, and the likes of Dwellers is not that much harder than Mindrazor to get off and can minimise the 'threat' of those Daemonettes in a heartbeat while the Bloodletters will easily shrug it off.

Anyway, if your overall statement were true, then the majority of Daemon lists at tournaments wouldn't contain 1-2 hordes of Letters and no Daemonettes.

It's simple basic strategy; the unit that is awesome on its own is better than the unit that is awesome only when you can cast a spell on it. Warseer really needs to learn that being dependant on magic is not a good thing because magic is too fickle for such responsilbility.

HalfBlood
31-05-2012, 02:38
Daemon tournament lists where im from involve Slannesh/Tz. Siren Songs and GIoD+Masque with the assistance of Shadow/Life Magic is extremely effective.

If you actually play daemons then you will understand that you cannot run a viable (tourney) list without magic. Daemon players get access to cheap and effective magic. Thats why all daemon players rely on magic one way or another. If you actually played as daemons you would notice that all daemon lists are built around magic. You cant make a good(tourney) list with daemons without magic. Daemonic Core is pretty overcosted/overrated, only with magic do they shine.

In my personal experiences with daemons involved me running Bloodletters. After awhile I have realized Daemonettes are just as viable with far more flexibilty(SS) all they need is magic. Now like I said in 1K stick with letters, however at higher point levels daemonettes are my preferred choice. Many people say Letters are cheesee, im pretty sure its because the letters look intimidating.... Run daemonettes they wont be called chesse, and with correct magic combos it will allow you to win more games.