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madival
29-05-2012, 06:53
So I was looking at my black coach entry and I realized that it no longer has the 0-1 entry. Does anyone try to roll with double black coaches ? I run one and it wrecks everything it touches. What would happen if I ran two. What do you guys think ?

SteelTitan
29-05-2012, 09:15
No, I don't and I have never read about someone doing it...so I think that means it's not the most viable option. I haven't used my Black Coach since the new VC book came out. With the changes to its Invocation of Death table, it powers up so much slower. The biggest things here is that:

(1) It's takes a lot longer to become ethereal, if you ever do in a given game. An ethereal Black Coach is awesome, nuff said.

(2) The coach lost the ability to gain hatred which was not only my second favourite power-up but was also really good. With the meagre WS of the Wraith and the Horses, this was the only way to reliable deal wounds in consecutive rounds of combat. Without it, you aren't likely do deal more than 1-2 wounds per round. Of course, the opponent is also unlikely to do many wounds with T6 and a 4+ ward. But I'm not paying that 'many' points for an expensive tarpit. VC has enough options to pin enemy units in place and after spending the mandatory core points (which fulfill this role), I really want to spend my remaining points on things that can either hit hard or redirect.

Chariots took a bit of a hit in 8th and I wouldn't want to charge in my coach with any other unit. It's tough but many of our other units aren't (low toughness or bad armour save) and it's very likely it's gonna take crumbling wounds if it does combo-charge. I expect you're almost always better of charging in solo and relying on your T6,4++ when you pick your targets well.

I'm keen on fielding my coach again because it looks awesome (check the blog in my sig if you're interested) but it's a hard pick. I love my 5-man Wraith unit, I love the speedy Varghulf (which does have hatred and thunderstomp), and if I feel particularly lucky, it's hard to resist taking a Terrorgheist.

Malorian
29-05-2012, 16:45
I hate black coaches and I think they are useless. I see them as a 0-0 choice.

Seriously, it's just an EXTREMELY expensive chariot. It does impact hits when it charges, get 2 horse attacks, and the attacks from 1 wraith. If you need to get past steadfast it needs another unit, and you don't want to be stuck and doomed if you didn't break them on the charge.

Leave the black coaches at home and use the points on varghulfs, vargheists, or some other unit that hits hard turn after turn.

Hinaelark
29-05-2012, 21:05
I'm not sure they're something that belongs in every list, but mine did quite well for me this last weekend at a tournament. Only one game did it get past killing blow but it made contributions each game. It drew all fire from a unit of maneaters and an iron blaster for three turns while I manouvered the rest of my troops near them in my first game. Second game I combo charged a unit of chaos warriors with the chariot in the front, ghouls in the side, and proceeded to slowly killing blow all of the characters in the unit while they failed to wound T6. 3rd game it went ethereal but died to screaming from a dual terrorgheist list. I consider that well worth the 195 pts in my 2500 list.

Askari
29-05-2012, 21:16
I hate black coaches and I think they are useless. I see them as a 0-0 choice.


That genuinely made me laugh.

I'm going to do my new 'thing' and quote myself from another thread, thing took me long enough to write;



Doesn't use up those 6s on the power dice, huzzah! Also has no effect at all in the opponent's magic phase so is both slower to power up and not a form of magic defence anymore. It's still a T6 chariot with 4 Wounds, with the capability of becoming Ethereal. It's okay, but quite an expensive blocker unless it powers up.


With the addendum: Quite should be ludicrously. Spirit Hosts block just as effectively.

Wesser
29-05-2012, 22:44
It's a chariot whose main ability amounts to one thunderstomp from a varghulf

It's power up abilities doesnt matter much. It'll do marginally more damage and ethereal isnt rly an issue. If it dies it'll be 2 crumble or heroic killing blow...and the latter is usually delivered with a magic weapon

Vaiuri
01-06-2012, 16:47
I can see them being good in Storm of Magic games with all the extra power dice being generated, but I personally really struggle to justify taking one when a Terrorgeist is only a little bit more expensive and Vargulfs a tad cheaper. Shame really cos I love the concept.

DaemonReign
07-06-2012, 22:33
I look at the Black Coach as a unit that was sadly 'glanced over' in the new Vampire Counts Army Book.
Changing the way it Powers up was an obvious tweak really, but it's like the Designer couldn't even think about the possibility of anyone wanting to bring 2+ Coaches. The way it absorbs Power from the Winds of Magic still inhibits the use of more than one - it's like an implicit 0-1 restriction.
For a while there - between the arrival of 8th and the new VC book - the Coach powered up really damn quickly (too quickly, actually!) and you could bring two... but still never 3. Unless there actually was a 0-1 restriction in the old book, which I have forgotten all about in that case..

Second thing they failed to fix is the Flying part. Yeah sure it's a chariot so it can't march.. But come on! - a Special Rule that would have allowed it to 'actually fly' (i.e. move 20") once reaching that stage wouldn't have been completely outlandish, would it? That bit is just screaming for houseruling.. Which is a shame because I generally dislike the use of houserules..

SteelTitan
08-06-2012, 00:21
It isn't all that strange really. The coach is an old kit and they sold plenty of them. About time to make it a clear suboptimal choice and sell some new shiny toys. Happens all over the place.

DaemonReign
08-06-2012, 13:45
It isn't all that strange really. The coach is an old kit and they sold plenty of them. About time to make it a clear suboptimal choice and sell some new shiny toys. Happens all over the place.

Granted. But it still kinda sucks. :)