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Commissar Merces
29-05-2012, 15:28
I figure since 5th edition books are off the shelves and it is fairly obvious 6th edition is just around the corner, it would only be fair if we paid our respects to 5th edition. Please post your own thoughts as we remember everything 5th edition gave us (and in some cases, didn't give us).

Dearly beloved, we are gathered here today to remember warhammer 40k 5th edition who so generously entertained us for many years with its beautiful artwork and new minis. Fifth edition, like any edition, was one of change. We saw the rise of "healthy models" as our models lost considerable weight as they shed a few pounds of metal pewter to finecast, for better or for worse. Luckily gamesworkshop reminded us that inhaling resin shavings was very bad for our health. :angel: Only problem is 90% of the finecast models come already bent/damaged, making the transition for us a little bit more than difficult. Most of us have learned to stomach this.

The Fifth edition rules brought us rending sniper rifles, for once making those cool sniper models worth purchasing. Our friend also brought us cover saves for skimmers making land speeders worth while. Outflanking was a nice touch, enabling players to spring deadly traps on our enemies, making genestealers that much cooler and proving once and for all that Boss Snigrot is, and will always be, one BAMF. Our shooting from vehicles also changed, as once more we couldn't justify taking those big expensive tanks but instead take as many little vehicles as we could. The random mission rolling was always entertaining as we, perplexed, looked at each other with doubt as we tried to remember what mission we had just rolled.

But 5th Edition was not without its faults as Fearless units, no matter how brave, seemed to fall in droves as combat resolution randomly killed them off from cardiac arrest as we cried to the Dice Gods for mercy as our armour save failed in an attempt to stop the bleeding. Or how one model could somehow overrun a unit of 40 guardsmen.

The Ork, Guard, Necron, Space Wolf, and Dark Eldar codexes dazzled us with new weapons and brilliant models. Codex Space Marine wasn't too awful except for the ludicrous amount of ultra smurfs. 5th Edition captured our imagination with three new expansions (planet strike, battle missions, and of course, apocalypse). Let us take a moment to say our goodbyes to these friends.
Thank you.
Fifth edition also so the rise of orbital bombardments and special character hammer which had its ups and downs. Who didn't love being able to use marbo to blow stuff up that an opponent thought was safe only to watch his expensive unit explode in ash as marbo's handler cackles historically? And who can forget all the times we had to face a blood angels player with Mephiston chewing through half of our armies? Then of course, you have the thousand Dark Eldar characters who seem to appear in the codex but only 2-3 ever get used in real life. Course, the grey knights can now field an army of ALL characters basically (more on that later).

But 5th edition also hampered our ability to be unique as many special wargear and tactics that our armies became accustomed to in 4th edition were tragically lost. Individuality became a thing of the past for our tabletop heros as uniform wargear, armour, weapons, became the name of the game. The days of creating your own heroes gave way to the temptation to buy a shiny, much better character who was a fraction more and was a thousand times better then the generic HQ choice you could buy, regardless of how much wargear he or she had.

The HQ units were not the only ones to receive this treatment.

The days of tyranid biomorphs , space marine chapter traits and guard doctrines were lost to the simplified static feel of the new codexes. This, more than anything else, simplified the game but also made it less enjoyable as a whole as those awesome stories and wargear options you had for your units in 4th edition quickly became illegal or thrown out in 5th when your new codex came out. While I doubt this will change, I would really like to see more unique options in next edition.

Fifth edition also spammed the world of 40k with transports as people realized that having units in metal boxes with wheels actually helped their survivabilty. Imagine that.

Leaf blowers, parking lots, to name a few, became the cream of the crop as you couldn't face a space marine army without at least two rhinos. We hope that in the next edition we see less of this tactic as blowing up transports gets old after a while. Especially when their smoke launchers continue to fool your heavy weapons. Yet all this is but a minor irritation compared to the evil that arose in this edition as one Matt Ward asscended to demon princehood (sitting on the golden throne of cheese) after overpowering the grey knights and brutally destroying years of well documented fluff that made 40k, 40k. Ward, we hope, will be banished to the depths of mount doom along with his creations.

As we turn to the future I foresee great things for our beloved game. Fliers, new units, and more are all promised. Hopefully we will see significant changes to some of the game mechanics as I, for one, am tired of feeling like I am facing down traffic coming out of a busy city with the amount of transports I have had to face. All the rumored chances seem appealing (well except for that rumor that the space marines are somehow buddy buddy with the Tau because the tau are now the chosen people of the emperor or something like that :wtf:) especially snap fire, heroic challenges, and of course, consolidation in combat.

One thing is for sure: change is coming. Ready or not.

I encourage you to post some of your own thoughts in this tread, perhaps write a eulogy of your own. If you enjoyed this post, please don't be afraid to say so.:angel:

snottlebocket
29-05-2012, 15:30
Aw yeah. Marbo's historical laughter.

Thanatos_elNyx
29-05-2012, 15:50
Nice. You are a good Eugoogalizer.

Sureshot05
29-05-2012, 16:06
Dear Fifth edition,

Oh, what a change. Gone are the vast simplifications of 4th and we've swung fully towards special rules for each unit. We've had some terrible fluff this edition, and I suspect that you will be remembered as the transports and terrible fluff edition. We've had some highs together, with Dark Eldar hitting the tables and showing us what GW can do at its best. We've also seen some lows, with Grey Knights being regarded by some as the codex that broke the edition in a similar manner to what happened with Daemons in Warhammer 7th. We've had massive expansions on the army ranges, with all the codices getting new units and expansions. We've had some stunning models (Dark Eldar, Necrons, Plastic grey knights, and the Trygon) and some terrors (marines flyers, space wolves riding wolves). Special characters have come to the fore, leading to less individuality and more template armies, but we've also seen old ghosts, long since forgotten returning with a vengence to the fore, with Dark Eldar and Necrons showing that they both will be back.

For 6th, given the bad nature of where the background is going, I can only wonder. Rules wise the tid bits and leaks sound great, but the background that attracts so many to the universe could suffer the cost. But finally we see the missing element, the much needed Aerial component hit our beloved battlefields, and I look forward to that immensely.

Heres to you 5th, you've been a fun game and I hope your successor succeeds beyond all our expectations.

Thanks to commisar Merces for a fun idea

Nurgling Chieftain
29-05-2012, 16:44
Goodbye 5th edition!

Thank you for bringing us vehicle rules that worked more like the standard infantry rules. Saves instead of "hull down", squadron rules that functioned in the same sequence as infantry unit rules.

Thank you for making the adage that infantry swarming over a vehicle could find weakpoints an actual rule rather than ignored fluff.

You brought us AP1 that mattered, and AP- that hurt.

You obliterated the remaining dominance of independent characters in close combat.

You removed the "LoS sniping" capability.

You got all blasts to scatter, and made it work.

You gave us Outflanking, and explicit reserve declaration, and the tradeoff of deploying second versus taking the first turn.

You gave us a set of basic missions that all worked reasonably fairly (as long as everyone knows what they might be in for - if you brought an army that almost couldn't win Dawn of War, Kill Points, or even objectives, it's your own fault IMO) without "one die roll to win" missions like Meatgrinder and Rescue used to be.

Many of your codexes had unfortunate content. You deserved better.

You had your flaws, but we can move on from those now. We'll have new flaws to complain about shortly, I'm sure.

mitsukai
29-05-2012, 16:46
A simple eulogy:-

Goodbye 5th edition
We knew you so well
here comes 6th
ahh man the games gone to hell!

GotrekFan
29-05-2012, 17:41
5th Edition, where the game was won and lost in list creation and where the melta gun ruled all.
A time of multi wound shenanigans and strategic casualty removal, yet for all that we loved you for your brutal assaults and masses firepower.
Farewell old friend, you will be missed.

40K is dead, long live 40K.

P.s. great thread idea:)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Lord Damocles
29-05-2012, 17:47
you couldn't face a space marine army without at least two rhinos
Oh how thee reminded us of 3rd edition Rhino Rush...

Rick Blaine
29-05-2012, 21:03
And nothing of value was lost.

Commissar Merces
29-05-2012, 21:20
Thanks guys keep it coming. Some really good responses so far.

Denny
29-05-2012, 21:42
You were my first edition.
We had a great time together, but I always felt like something was missing . . .

TheDungen
29-05-2012, 21:47
Dear 5th edition...

Tomb Kings in Space? Seriously?

murgel2006
29-05-2012, 21:48
Oh 5th.

You all have passed now. you have given us lessons.
How to look over the shoulder of our men (or alien).
How a single man (or alien) can change a whole game.
You showed us how important it is to drop to the ground and not try to fight.
And many things more.

But you still did make the one thing. A fun game.

Latro_
29-05-2012, 22:08
I'v still grieving over 2ed...

Bergen Beerbelly
29-05-2012, 22:15
Dear 5th edition:

Thank you for showing the gaming community that in a futuristic setting it isn't very realistic or even slightly plausable that wars fought with world shattering weapons would mean that everyone would be running around out in the open with troopers instead of trying to get into armored vehicles to try to save their skins. Thank you for Mech spam. It really brought out the idea that the wars being fought are not little squad based firefights but instead are sections of a much larger battle that we are playing out the pivotal point of.

Thank you for showing that it's stupid to think futuristic wars would be based around a bunch of guys running at each other to hack it up in close combat...Please...Close combat is always a desperate affair that any sane person would rather avoid.

And thank you for showing us that even though vehicles are the king in the future, that as we learned in the many wars here on earth, armored vehicles stand little chance when charged by determined vehicle killing troops.

Latro_
29-05-2012, 22:25
If you want some real nostalgia, checkout the WS threads circa july 2008 :D

http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?154357-My-thoughts-on-5th-Ed

(dont you dare post in them now, bad, bad!)

Axeman1n
30-05-2012, 02:57
5th edition was a good system. You showed us that elite troops of the future do not need to guess the range to their target. You showed us that a glancing hit is just that, a glancing hit. The rules for rending were brought back into normal. You gave our gunless troops something to do in the shooting phase. You made deepstriking a bit safer. You gave us the 3+ invulnerable terminator. You gave us PotMS that worked. You got rid of consolidation into combat.
Ah, 5th edition will be missed. With each codex release we see more army bloat. Armies that were once 50 models, are closer to 75 models. Where once we saw 2 transports we now see 7. We will carry on. Exchanging our ground transports for air ones. We will try and keep pace with the move towards Close Combat death stars. We will never look back to when our armies were lead by normal rank and file commanders. Even the sergents in the squads are heroes in their own right.

Charistoph
30-05-2012, 07:00
Yes, let us have the funeral before the heart beat is gone, the EKG is null, and the lungs have given out. After all, what's the point in kicking dead horses when the dying ones can feel it? Shall we celebrate New Years before Thanksgiving (Canadian OR American)?

After all, wouldn't it be better to know the full virtues and failings of 5th after we know how bad 6th is and we can use them to beat 6th in the crotch?

Kakapo42
30-05-2012, 07:43
So long, and thanks for all the paints.

Inquisitor Shego
30-05-2012, 07:57
Fifth Edition may you burn in hell. Your wretched presence has started to smell.
Transports and Grey Knights, your taint has spoiled my fun. Your filthy presence, deep has run.
Mech Guard and Leafblower, you sicken mine eyes. Long Fang spam was hardly a surprise.
The fluff has been mind numbing, unbearable, morose. This edition I have hated the most.
The Imperium is dying, or so we're told, yet the top four tier armies are Imperium bros.
I wish I would miss you, but I cannot lie, cannot wait for you to die.

DeviantApostle
30-05-2012, 08:45
Today, we consign 5th Edition to the deep in the most fitting recepticle: a metal bawks.

As a core ruleset, it had improved upon what had come before. You gave us a reason to take transports. You gave us a reason to field Librarians again. With so much to look up to, it may be unsurprising that many of its siblings, the Codices, failed to live up to its promise. It passed through many trials and tribulations of bad fluff, insane unit design, price gouging and a rising culture of list optimization. Despite all of these trials, this edition managed to survive through its lifetime as a good, fun, game. You also gave us a return of the Dark Eldar, for which I am personally profoundly grateful.

Now, we look to the future and what 6th Edition may become. 5th Edition was fun but not perfect, it can be improved upon. What happens now in 6th Edition over the next few months may chart the course for the wargames industry as it goes ahead and determine the balance of power in the hobby. A change like this is a good chance to guage where we stand, what we will accept and what will make us walk away, because though a new edition may arrive, the old edition still lives on. Our books will not suddenly biodegrade, our models won't suddenly become obsolete and tournaments are under no obligation to adopt a set of rules if the player base is unhappy with them.

We can but hope that some codices will not be left behind has they have in the past and that others will recieve much needed support as the game changes.

Carlosophy
30-05-2012, 10:37
5th edition, will I weep for thee?
Nay, you have brought me nothing but pain.
Forever remembered without free will,
You were the slave to control.

Long you yearned for the days of freedom,
To run through the open fields of your forefathers;
And yet here you lie,
Broken by your progeny.

Too long you screamed in agony,
Yearning to let them loose;
And here you lie broken to pieces,
With only the Fallen and the Fall as evidence of your dreams.

We pray for you now after they tore you asunder.
Not meant for such conflict were you.
Only in Death can you now find peace,
Vindication is your only reward.

So when we walk the road of rose,
And see your name written with ancestry;
You shall be remembered,
Not for what you were, but for what you could have been.

Bunnahabhain
30-05-2012, 10:39
Oh 5th Ed! Oh virtuous 5th ed. Why did you let you children run so wild? Your intentions were honest, but your codicies were seduced by Matt Ward, (and some lesser daemons) and pumped full of fat and sugar and artificial flavourings, and your expansions ran wild and free, like feral cats. They all want to sprawl through a mansion, not be stuck in you little flat.

You shall be abandoned as people move to 6th ed, with many getting lost along the way, or stuck on the high fence of price hikes....

Kakapo42
30-05-2012, 11:03
Wait, hang on a minute. Why are we despairing? Why, with the wonders of mad science, we could revive fallen 5th ed, or encase it in a body of living metal, or even travel back in time to avert all the falls it made! The possibilities are limitless... :p

Grocklock
30-05-2012, 11:09
Ow fith edition im sad to see you go you where by far the best edition so far

feelnopain666
30-05-2012, 11:21
i'll miss it so much, that only one sentence will be enough:
Good ridance!

RandomThoughts
30-05-2012, 17:51
Oh fifth edition, how much joy you brought me!
You taught me the wonders of the warmachine.
You taught me that my fire dragons will throw away their guns and charge terminators barehand, whence just one of them so much as touched one of mine.
You taught me the fine difference between a armor-piercing weapon like the Banshee Power Sword, useless against the hardened ceramite of Dreadnaut armor and the equally armor-piercing Witchblade, useless against the hardened ceramite of Tactical Dreadnaut armor.
You taught me that shooting at the front line of a thousand-strong Ork horde will miraculously kill the very rear, and that cover fire will actually benefit the asaultee, not the assaulter it was meant to help.
You taught me the fine difference between the grimdark fluff, where everyone fires at their own troops indifferently for the slightest benefit, and the fluffy gameplay full of hugs and muffins, where men will refuse to fire their missile launchers at the enemy dreadnaughts wading through their comrades, invulnerable, unstoppable.
You taught me the value of Swooping Hawks, thrice the price the truly desire, and the value of the feared Dark Reapers, their high-priced AP3 guns bouncing off vehicles, Cover, Feel No Pain, and often wasted on the likes of Orks and Imps.
You taught me the value of Howling Banshees, useless against anything but heavy infantry without stormshields, and the value of Striking Scorpions, often sneaking into a deserted corner of the battlefield, or held up indefinitely by a single melee walker set as a stopgap against them.
You taught me the joy of the Eldar Jetbike, never accomplishing anything, and still winning battles galore for me on late game deserted objectives.

You truly taught me the joys of the warmachine, where shooty units fall back if assaulted, not pile in for the slaughter.
Where a heavy weapon is a heavy weapon, no matter if the target has a 2+ save or a high AV.
Where HQs are truly formidable, with great combat prowess and awesome spell support.
Where players get to move their models even after they are engaged in melee, to rearrange formations as they see fit.
Where factions are balanced to the point, that the weakest of them loose 55% of their tournament games, while the strongest win about the 55% of theirs.
Where spam is a rare occurrence, as different units are usually required to deal with different threats.

Oh fifth edition, I enjoyed playing you, until the day you became a bore.
You taught me the joys of the warmachine, how grateful I am!

Lord Damocles
30-05-2012, 18:01
Tomb Kings in Space? Seriously?
2nd edition called. They want their concept back.

Vepr
30-05-2012, 18:11
5th edition was not a bad fella but his codex fluff sucked harder than some black holes... amen.

The bearded one
30-05-2012, 18:20
Where HQs are truly formidable, with great combat prowess and awesome spell support.

Herohammer.. I mean, Heromachine?

Veteran Sergeant
30-05-2012, 18:27
2nd edition called. They want their concept back.
2nd Edition would never have come up with that. 2nd Edition is what started the game on the path of grimdark, away from the silliness of Rogue Trader. It hadn't gone full grimdarktard yet, but certainly away from the "everything in 40K is translated from Fantasy". The Necrons were created in 2nd Edition. As mindless terminator zombies angry at everybody living for no apparent reason.

Lord Damocles
30-05-2012, 18:36
2nd Edition would never have come up with that. 2nd Edition is what started the game on the path of grimdark, away from the silliness of Rogue Trader. It hadn't gone full grimdarktard yet, but certainly away from the "everything in 40K is translated from Fantasy". The Necrons were created in 2nd Edition. As mindless terminator zombies angry at everybody living for no apparent reason.
Uh huh.

Pyramids (in deserts)
Scarabs
Ankh symbols
Undead [robots]
Rising from tombs
Hieroglyths/sarcophogai

Nothing remotely like Tomb Kings there at all.

Veteran Sergeant
30-05-2012, 18:43
That was all 3rd Edition. Necrons had 4 total model ranges in the 2nd Edition range. Sure, there was a subtle Egyptian influence, but that's just because 40K is, and has always been, filled with as much derivative material as possible in order to appeal to the broadest audience possible. The connection to the Tomb Kings is pretty tenuous. Sure, there's the parallel that they are derived from the same historical source material, but they lack any common traits past being "Egyptian" in nature.

Lord Damocles
30-05-2012, 19:21
That was all 3rd Edition.
Pyramids (in deserts)
See back cover of White Dwarf 216 (UK), and Gorkamorka Da Uvver Book, pg.105 (reprinted in Codex: Necrons (3rd ed.), pg.32) (ie. both 2nd edition era) for pyramids on a desert world (Angelis).

Scarabs
Joint first Necron models/rules (http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?start=83&um=1&hl=en&sa=N&biw=1366&bih=673&tbm=isch&tbnid=RayYSXUVyHhhiM:&imgrefurl=http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp%3FprodId%3D99060110003&docid=rDjnWPtOxrB3nM&imgurl=http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m400648_99060110003_ScarabSwarmMain_873x627.jpg&w=873&h=627&ei=5GDGT_emIKKo0QX4hoSDBg&zoom=1) (White Dwarf 217 (UK), pg.34) (ie. 2nd edition).

Ankh symbols
Original Lord's staff (http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?um=1&hl=en&sa=N&biw=1366&bih=673&tbm=isch&tbnid=a27T9Oja-FmpGM:&imgrefurl=http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/225100.page&docid=aDLKbdcNAc11nM&imgurl=http://images.dakkadakka.com/gallery/2008/12/19/13262_sm-40k%252520Second%252520Edition,%252520Necron%25252 0Lord,%252520Necrons,%252520White%252520Dwarf.jpg&w=423&h=535&ei=eWHGT_vMEYWp0QXE-tDYBQ&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=370&vpy=125&dur=1497&hovh=253&hovw=200&tx=89&ty=160&sig=113492110121882565552&page=1&tbnh=148&tbnw=117&start=0&ndsp=21&ved=1t:429,r:1,s:0,i:73), and on the chests of (2 of 6) Warriors (http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?um=1&hl=en&biw=1366&bih=673&tbm=isch&tbnid=L3VM1ptyxqg_eM:&imgrefurl=http://store.wargamingtrader.com/sculptors/dave-andrews%3Fpage%3D1&docid=cDhQmmSWGKtdnM&imgurl=http://store.wargamingtrader.com/system/files/imagecache/product_full/K253%252520-%252520Original%252520Metal%252520Necron%252520War rior%252520-%2525201997%252520%252520%252520%252520%25252012-05-13.jpg&w=907&h=1024&ei=nGHGT9WuMOis0QWaprGXBg&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=401&vpy=225&dur=1021&hovh=239&hovw=211&tx=111&ty=172&sig=113492110121882565552&page=2&tbnh=154&tbnw=140&start=18&ndsp=22&ved=1t:429,r:17,s:18,i:147) and Lord (ie. 2nd edition models).

Undead [robots]
'The Necrons are undead robots...' (Collecting and Painting Wargames Armies, pg.36) (ie. 2nd edition era).

Rising from tombs
eg. Digganob, pgs.7-8; White Dwarf 217 (UK), pgs.31, 36 (ie. 2nd edition era).

Hieroglyths/sarcophogai
Back cover of White Dwarf 216 (UK) (ie. 2nd edition).


'The original concept of the Necrons was that they would be akin to the Undead in Warhammer...' ('Necron Terrain' in White Dwarf 220 (UK), pg.52).

Ebon
30-05-2012, 19:32
Goodbye 5th ed. You were decent overall.

Veteran Sergeant
30-05-2012, 22:04
Pyramids (in deserts)
See back cover of White Dwarf 216 (UK), and Gorkamorka Da Uvver Book, pg.105 (reprinted in Codex: Necrons (3rd ed.), pg.32) (ie. both 2nd edition era) for pyramids on a desert world (Angelis).

Scarabs
Joint first Necron models/rules (http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?start=83&um=1&hl=en&sa=N&biw=1366&bih=673&tbm=isch&tbnid=RayYSXUVyHhhiM:&imgrefurl=http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp%3FprodId%3D99060110003&docid=rDjnWPtOxrB3nM&imgurl=http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m400648_99060110003_ScarabSwarmMain_873x627.jpg&w=873&h=627&ei=5GDGT_emIKKo0QX4hoSDBg&zoom=1) (White Dwarf 217 (UK), pg.34) (ie. 2nd edition).

Ankh symbols
Original Lord's staff (http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?um=1&hl=en&sa=N&biw=1366&bih=673&tbm=isch&tbnid=a27T9Oja-FmpGM:&imgrefurl=http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/225100.page&docid=aDLKbdcNAc11nM&imgurl=http://images.dakkadakka.com/gallery/2008/12/19/13262_sm-40k%252520Second%252520Edition,%252520Necron%25252 0Lord,%252520Necrons,%252520White%252520Dwarf.jpg&w=423&h=535&ei=eWHGT_vMEYWp0QXE-tDYBQ&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=370&vpy=125&dur=1497&hovh=253&hovw=200&tx=89&ty=160&sig=113492110121882565552&page=1&tbnh=148&tbnw=117&start=0&ndsp=21&ved=1t:429,r:1,s:0,i:73), and on the chests of (2 of 6) Warriors (http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?um=1&hl=en&biw=1366&bih=673&tbm=isch&tbnid=L3VM1ptyxqg_eM:&imgrefurl=http://store.wargamingtrader.com/sculptors/dave-andrews%3Fpage%3D1&docid=cDhQmmSWGKtdnM&imgurl=http://store.wargamingtrader.com/system/files/imagecache/product_full/K253%252520-%252520Original%252520Metal%252520Necron%252520War rior%252520-%2525201997%252520%252520%252520%252520%25252012-05-13.jpg&w=907&h=1024&ei=nGHGT9WuMOis0QWaprGXBg&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=401&vpy=225&dur=1021&hovh=239&hovw=211&tx=111&ty=172&sig=113492110121882565552&page=2&tbnh=154&tbnw=140&start=18&ndsp=22&ved=1t:429,r:17,s:18,i:147) and Lord (ie. 2nd edition models).

Undead [robots]
'The Necrons are undead robots...' (Collecting and Painting Wargames Armies, pg.36) (ie. 2nd edition era).

Rising from tombs
eg. Digganob, pgs.7-8; White Dwarf 217 (UK), pgs.31, 36 (ie. 2nd edition era).

Hieroglyths/sarcophogai
Back cover of White Dwarf 216 (UK) (ie. 2nd edition).


'The original concept of the Necrons was that they would be akin to the Undead in Warhammer...' ('Necron Terrain' in White Dwarf 220 (UK), pg.52).
The problem with all of this is you're still proving apples to a bucket of oranges.

I played undead in Fantasy. Strangely they had no sentient Egyptian mummies in them. Nobody is contesting that the Necrons were similar to the Undead, but they were not the Tomb Kings aside from the similarity in Egyptian inspired iconography. The modern Necrons are Tomb Kings. The Egyptian terminator zombies were not.

Getz
03-06-2012, 16:58
Dear 40K fifth edition, for all you got right
I still can't forgive you for true line of sight.

Pile in before combat was another bad call
as now there's no skill to close combat at all.

No doubt sixth edition will set some of this straight
then they'll change things again with edition seven and eight.

Balerion
03-06-2012, 19:27
Do not go gentle into that 2K fight,
Old players should burn and rage at close of phase;
Rage, rage against true line of sight.

Though wise men at their end know the dice are right,
Because their rolls had forked no lightning they
Do not go gentle into that 2K fight.

Good generals, the last game by, crying how bright
Their frail troops might have scored in play,
Rage, rage against true line of sight.

Wild men wound allocate with spite,
And learn, too late, they grieve it on its way,
Do not go gentle into that 2K fight.

Grave men, near death, see a transport in sight
Blind eyes blaze like melta yet it makes its save,
Rage, rage against true line of sight.

And you, my Primarch, there on the sad height,
Curse, bless me now with your fierce tears, I pray.
Do not go gentle into that 2K fight.
Rage, rage against true line of sight.

Mandragola
03-06-2012, 22:07
So, 5th is really a pretty solid rule set in my opinion, for what it's worth. We have seen a period during which the various different codices are in reasonable balance, and you can make a competitive army from many of them - not just grey knights... though obviously it's a bit easier with them.

The major let down of 5th has been scenarios. Kill points should never have been invented as it made quite a lot of perfectly innocent units a liability simply because they were cheap. It was probably meant to combat the issue of MSU spam in 4th, which was a valid issue, but they did a bad job of fixing it.

Capture and control is very often a draw as well. That's a problem. It's a fun scenario to play though, and not clearly stupid like kill points, so fair enough.

...Or it would be, if there were more than 3 scenarios. Was that seriously all they could think of? Ok, you do get 3 deployments as well, but that just isn't enough.

Actually I really like the 3 deployment types. The way you now deploy sort of knowing who is going first, but not quite being certain, is great. Likewise it's interesting to have the option of putting everything in reserve if you want to. I can see a case for having deployment modes where you can't reserve your whole force though, because reserve denial armies are pretty spectacularly boring, so it probably shouldn't be encouraged as a default tactic. Still, it does work well as it stands and diminishes the huge advantage you got for going 1st in 4th ed.

big squig
04-06-2012, 05:47
A haiku for 5th edition

Loop holes in wound rules.
Random missions are boring.
Codexes unbalanced.

Thrax
04-06-2012, 07:22
Dearly Beloved,

We are gathered here to witness the passing of the 5th edition of Warhammer 40,000. Despite some improvements over its predecessors, there was so very much left to be desired. It attempted many good things, but failed miserably in its execution.

Though a noble idea, wound allocation laughably caused fewer wounds as greater firepower poured into the target. TLOS made extravagant models a liability, and with the universal 4+ save, terrain became far less important. Almost the entire table became under fire, including models not...actually...in...TLOS. Models atop an intact building could fire on their enemies, but return fire needed to destroy the building for any effect. Transports became far too easy a way to move troops with impunity. Being fearless became a detriment, and having all units in close combat suffer additional wounds was a masterstroke of oversight. I yawn at your scenarios, and roll my eyes at your kill points.

All in all you came too soon, but couldn't leave soon enough. Though I fear your successor will accomplish much the same, I am still well pleased at your passing. Amen.

Tzavi III
05-06-2012, 14:44
Fifth Edition may you burn in hell. Your wretched presence has started to smell.
Transports and Grey Knights, your taint has spoiled my fun. Your filthy presence, deep has run.
Mech Guard and Leafblower, you sicken mine eyes. Long Fang spam was hardly a surprise.
The fluff has been mind numbing, unbearable, morose. This edition I have hated the most.
The Imperium is dying, or so we're told, yet the top four tier armies are Imperium bros.
I wish I would miss you, but I cannot lie, cannot wait for you to die.

Exactly what I wanted to say... +another burn in hell!!! Fifth Edition you who made me stop 40k and start fantasy!!!

Ventus
05-06-2012, 15:58
We are gathered here to witness 5th edition being cast into the very fires of hell. Your rule set had a variety of problems (transports, cover, wound allocation, etc) but overall they were not too bad - something that could be built upon. But your edition saw the arrival of frightening fluff (and not in a good way), and as a mourner said the loss of things such as chapter traits, doctrines and tyranid customization. The tyranid dex was a horrible blight on the landscape and gutted my favourite army (nay not nidzilla of 4th). Perhaps when 6th is born we will look back and think better of you – perhaps not. Only time will tell.

If only there was a way to correct errors and problems after a book was …What? What did you say? The I-N-T-E-R-N-E-T? W-E-B-S-I-T-E? What are these things you speak of? What do you mean poor rules could easily be fixed with an errata? I say, you must be mistaken. If so surely GW would have…

bringerofdecay
05-06-2012, 16:17
can honestly say that this was by and large the worst edition out of the last 3, may the many, many poor rules present in this book not be repeated in 6th (oh who am i kidding!)

Havock
05-06-2012, 23:00
Dear peoples,

We are gathered here to shed some of our feelings on 5th edition, to which I have some of my own to share:

I once cared a lot for you, but you were different then, I now have a new love, Warmachine, she is just far less greedy and even allows me to go out with Infinity once in a while.
I think we just grew apart, we both went our ways and looked for different things in each other than the other could offer. You wanted more money, I wanted you to develop beyond mere change for the sake of it.