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mongoosedog300
02-05-2006, 08:49
Did anyone else know that Sam hain and Bel tain (not sure if thats how you spell them) are named after the ancient celtic holidays Samhain and Beltaine.
just thought it was an interesting fact :D

wilting_laughter
02-05-2006, 08:51
Youd think I would have noticed something like that, seeing as they are both Irish words.

Smoking Frog
02-05-2006, 09:04
And that the word "Eldar" first appeared in the Lord of the Rings (or one of that guys other books, i can't remember off the top 'o me 'ead) and is the everlasting spirit that keeps them immortal.

Something like that.

GW, like everyone, finds inspiration everywhere.

Omeg
02-05-2006, 09:06
It's scary just how much unoriginality is found in not only warhammer, but all such games. To take but a few examples from Warhammer: Archaon; Khorne; Tyrion; Most of the Empire in WHFB. Warhammer is absolutely riddled with these things.

Morathi's Darkest Sin
02-05-2006, 09:16
Alot of the key names are just from other texts, you'd be surprised how many of the key names you can use and GW could not do a thing on a legal level, well as long as your Archaon doesn't look like theirs anyways.

Smoking Frog
02-05-2006, 09:23
Speaking of Morathi...

Look what Google found.

http://www.parenthood.com/babynames_searchresults.html?searchName=Morathi

Morathi's a man-chick!!!

Alright I'll stop :cries:

Latro_
02-05-2006, 10:22
Did you not already know this?
do worry unoriginality is everywhere, Glenn Danzig called his band after The Misfits Sam Hain as well.

Negal is the babalonian god of decay :P
Abbaddon is latin (?) for the angel of death or some such version
Tomb Spiders are Matrix sentinels
Dark Eldar... Hellraiser, Dark Eldar,,, Hellraiser

hehe its all a rehash of actual stuffe. In a way though it makes stuff easier to swallow.

Dawn of the Dogs
02-05-2006, 12:23
Sam Hain was also a character in ghostbusters. had a pumpkin for a head and wore a purple robe he did.

noneedforaname
02-05-2006, 12:47
abaddon is in fact the beast beast from the pit in revelations in the bible. Ahriman is the prince of lies, i think thats the zoohrastrian faith. Succubi female sex demon. Incubi and haemonculi also lesser orders of daemon. Commander dante, dantes inferno? Asmodai the serpent from the garden of eden. Azazel, azrael, ezekiel and quite a few others are angels. Pretty much every name is ripped off from somewhere with maybe Orks/Orcs being the exception to the rule.

minibutmighty
02-05-2006, 12:54
Think again, Ghazkull, nazgul.....

Rabid Bunny 666
02-05-2006, 13:05
Speaking of Morathi...

Look what Google found.

http://www.parenthood.com/babynames_searchresults.html?searchName=Morathi

Morathi's a man-chick!!!

Alright I'll stop :cries:

I feel dirty.....

Orbital
02-05-2006, 15:21
Actually, all of the Eldar Craftworld names come from Gaelic.

lord_blackfang
02-05-2006, 15:57
I consider this to be a good thing. Mythological names sound far better than random keystrokes.

noneedforaname
02-05-2006, 16:18
:confused: my LotR knowledge is a wee bit limited so maybe orks as well then.

Hlokk
02-05-2006, 17:16
wasnt samm hain the winter solstice?

Anyway, Vampire: the requiem also makes use of samm hain as a circle of the crone feast day.

Orbital
02-05-2006, 17:17
Yeah, and a friend of mine who fancies herself a "Wiccan" tells me it's pronounced "sow-WINN".

Then again, she's pretty much a complete fool, so...

dOOHICKY
02-05-2006, 17:20
A lot of mythical stuff is taken from Celtic legends.
If I remeber correctly I think Samhain is actually Irish for Saturday!!
(It's been a while since I have had call to speak Irish so I have forgotten most of it)

I think Elves were created from Irish Myth....
Banshees too....
Think Dwarfs are Norse....

Merlin
02-05-2006, 17:32
Samhain is actually November in Irish. I'm not sure if all the craftworld names come from Gaelic well at least Irish Gaelic as we have no "w" or "y" in Irish.

Orbital
02-05-2006, 17:36
A lot of mythical stuff is taken from Celtic legends.
If I remeber correctly I think Samhain is actually Irish for Saturday!!
(It's been a while since I have had call to speak Irish so I have forgotten most of it)

I think Elves were created from Irish Myth....
Banshees too....
Think Dwarfs are Norse....

Not just Celtic, but also Hindi, African and east Asian. A lot of these myths and pantheons cross-pollinate.

laucian_meliamne
02-05-2006, 17:42
Yeah, and a friend of mine who fancies herself a "Wiccan" tells me it's pronounced "sow-WINN".

Then again, she's pretty much a complete fool, so...

Actually she's got the pronunciation right in this case (though "SOW-wein" is also acceptable). She may be a fool most of the time, but she's got her pagan holidays down.

wilting_laughter
02-05-2006, 17:43
Samhain is actually November in Irish. I'm not sure if all the craftworld names come from Gaelic well at least Irish Gaelic as we have no "w" or "y" in Irish.


Yeah and Bealtaine is May.

EDIT: Wait, that's not right. I always get those damn months mixed up. Surely Meitheamh is May.

EDIT: No I was right in the begining. Bealtaine is May.

Can't think of parrallels in other craftowrlds though.

Orbital
02-05-2006, 18:06
I was sort of biased against her because she never changed her socks. Is that some kind of a Wiccan thing?

Sandlemad
02-05-2006, 18:31
Well, a very happy late Bealtaine (may day) for everyone. It was a celtic festivel so I'm going to assume it's a wiccan one too. I doubt I'm far wrong.

Aeschylus
02-05-2006, 22:13
Actually she's got the pronunciation right in this case (though "SOW-wein" is also acceptable). She may be a fool most of the time, but she's got her pagan holidays down.

[OT]

Pet Peeve of mine. Pronunciation of ancient languages is all bunk. Pronunciation invariably changes over the course of time, and anyone who attempts to force a schema down your throat is merely being pretentious. The best scholars adhere to whatever is common in the field, but don't really sweat it.

The only fairly "attested" rules for pronunciation I'm aware of are the littera canina of Latin and the eta of Aristophanes' sheep in Greek. Beyond stuff like animal sounds there is no way we can bridge the gap between ancient and modern languages. I wouldn't let a "Wiccan" tell me how to pronounce ancient celtic any more than I would let the Catholic Church tell me how to pronounce latin.

Messiah
02-05-2006, 22:19
Think Dwarfs are Norse....

Not only dwarves, but elves too, but they appear all over the globe. The name Elf is Nordic though.

BTW.. Gandalf is a dwarf in the Norse sagas.. ;)

Bregalad
02-05-2006, 23:31
Beltaine was the old Celtic Spring celebration, with some odd fertility rites there (see e.g. "Mists of Avalon"), still celebrated as "witch gatherings" on the night before 1st May (cf. "Blocksberg"-festival in Goethe's Faust).

The Germanic spring celebration was named after the fertility goddess Ostereia (her symbols: eggs, bunnies,...) , where the name Easter comes from. Seems to be related to Beltaine.

Samhain is celebrated in autumn (now night before 1st November), where according to Celtic myth the realm of the dead is nearest (now celebrated as Halloween!, see also "Mists of Avalon").

Freak Ona Leash
03-05-2006, 01:29
Beltaine was the old Celtic Spring celebration, with some odd fertility rites there (see e.g. "Mists of Avalon"), still celebrated as "witch gatherings" on the night before 1st May (cf. "Blocksberg"-festival in Goethe's Faust).

The Germanic spring celebration was named after the fertility goddess Ostereia (her symbols: eggs, bunnies,...) , where the name Easter comes from. Seems to be related to Beltaine.

Samhain is celebrated in autumn (now night before 1st November), where according to Celtic myth the realm of the dead is nearest (now celebrated as Halloween!, see also "Mists of Avalon").
We take Mists of Avalon as a historical reference point now? Uh, cool? :eyebrows:

dOOHICKY
03-05-2006, 12:26
A lot of Christian celebrations are actually based on Pagan festivals....
Halloween.... all souls/saints day
Easter... as shown above
Christmas... not sure what this is on, but am pretty sure it is on a pagan date....

As far as I know this was done to bring the pagans into the Christian fold more easily as they were still celebrating the same dates as before... just with a little less sacrificing etc... LOL

At least I think all the above is correct... I am sure there are a few people on here who can confirm this, or point me in the right direction of anything I have got wrong...

grimsnagga
03-05-2006, 13:28
Now I'm wondering what happened to the Eldar craftworlds of Im'Bolc, O'Stara, Lugh'Nasan and Ma'Bon.

BTW, Christmas is Saturnalia (sp?), a Roman holiday...

Musa
06-05-2006, 05:40
huh.... so most all eldar names are based on gaelic / celtic / irish?

wow...

so this little parallel came to my head:

There's the phrase "the Irish created the perfect society, drank some guinness and forgot where they put it"

can be translated to: "The Eldar created the perfect society, went a little too pleasure-ful and boom went the universe".

ok, i'll stop now.

Jester Boy
06-05-2006, 05:56
Haemonculi was a "little man" created buy an alcemist out of semen, poo and other household bits and pieces, he grew it in a jar and one day in escaped and killed him. IIRC.

Orbital
06-05-2006, 06:09
Haemonculi was a "little man" created buy an alcemist out of semen, poo and other household bits and pieces, he grew it in a jar and one day in escaped and killed him. IIRC.

You think he might have been angry for being made out of semen, poo and other household bits and pieces?

Jester Boy
06-05-2006, 06:16
It might have been that lost episode of McGyver OR a book on weird folk law but it was something about being made without the grace of god (and out of semen, poo ect).

Or something.

mongoosedog300
06-05-2006, 10:23
huh.... so most all eldar names are based on gaelic / celtic / irish?

wow...

so this little parallel came to my head:

There's the phrase "the Irish created the perfect society, drank some guinness and forgot where they put it"

can be translated to: "The Eldar created the perfect society, went a little too pleasure-ful and boom went the universe".

ok, i'll stop now.

Nice analogy

BloodiedSword
06-05-2006, 11:36
GW doesn't even try to hide the fact that those names are derivatives - they even say that the craftworld's name, spelt "Saim Hann", should be pronounced "Sam Hain"..

dOOHICKY
06-05-2006, 12:55
Sure GW don't even try and hide where they get their ideas from anymore!!

Many places have used grek/roman/gaelic terms in the past.....

But how many have actually went as far as to copy Monty Python???
Holy Orb of Antioch...

Though shalt pull the pin and counteth to three.. not two but three..
If you reach four you have gone too far... and five is way out!! hehehehehehhehehehehehehehehe

If ever I do a Templars army that will HAVE to be in there!!!

Codsticker
06-05-2006, 15:23
I wonder when we are going to have rules for Craft World: Walpurgisnacht released? :D

dOOHICKY
06-05-2006, 15:44
So that's where May Day came from!! ahhhhhhhhh I see....

Dark Muse
06-05-2006, 23:20
GW doesn't even try to hide the fact that those names are derivatives - they even say that the craftworld's name, spelt "Saim Hann", should be pronounced "Sam Hain"..


Though amusingly enough Samhain is pronounced 'Sow-en.' :)

Another parallel I did not see (granted I did not read the entire thread) is eh Sam Hain special character in the Eldar codex is a Celtic God, Nauda of the Silver Hand.

senban
06-05-2006, 23:58
Actually, all of the Eldar Craftworld names come from Gaelic.
What do the others mean? We've got Samhain and Beltane from the appendix of Wicca for Begginers