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Lance Tankmen
31-05-2012, 22:40
if a unit has immune to panic,fear and terror does this give them immune to psychology basically?

example a unit of long beards are immune to panic, i give them a banner making them immune to fear and terror. They then encounter a Beastmen Jabberslythe which has the special rule aura of maddness which states model with immune to psychology are unaffected, would they test or not? this isnt a great example because no one uses a jabberslythe, and if they did the dwarf cannons would kill it but its just something i had pondered.

Lord Inquisitor
31-05-2012, 22:47
Nope. Even if a unit is immune to fear, terror and panic, if they don't have the actual rule "immune to psychology" then they are not. The most obvious case of this is the Warrior of Chaos mark of Slaanesh, which does exactly that - makes them immune to fear, terror and panic without actual immune to psychology.

Usually being immune to fear, terror and panic is an advantage compared with true immune to psych because you still have the option of fleeing from a charge, but yes, the flipside is that it will leave you vulnerable to any effect that doesn't work on immune to psych troops.

Lance Tankmen
31-05-2012, 22:50
thats what i assumed but id rather KNOW than assume in the event it comes up any time in life

AntaresCD
31-05-2012, 23:50
It comes down to the fact that Immune to Psychology is a special rule. You either have a special rule or you don't. You have a special rule if it's part of your profile (from the army book, an item, unit type, etc) or if it's provided by a spell, magic banner, etc. Having all those immunities does not "add up" to a special rule. Unless it explicitly gives them Immune to Psychology, they don't have it.

If you want a rule page reference then you can find it on page 66 of the BRB, "It may seem obvious, but unless stated otherwise, a model does not have a special rule."

Vilrandir
01-06-2012, 17:09
In a related question, the following scenario came up yesterday at a friendly game:
my Grave Guard led by my vampire lord was charged by a group of Bretonnian knights (don't remember which vow) led by their army general. The General had an item (or a vow, I don't recall) that made the General Immune to Psychology. The Bretonnians rolled their Fear test and failed (with a -1, no reroll and 3 dice choosing the 2 highest thanks to screaming banner and vampiric powers). We were pretty sure that the whole unit didn't benefit from Immune to Psychology and had to roll, because most of the unit was NOT immune to psychology, but can someone confirm this? The real question is the following: After failing the roll, does all the unit get the WS reduced to 1 or does the general (who is immune to psychology) gets to keep his original WS?
The way I interpreted this is as follows:
The Fear rules say that the UNIT checks for fear as a whole. The General is part of the unit, and even when having immune to psychology, does not grant it to the unit as its not the majority of models that has the rule. Therefore, the Fear check is made by the unit and as the rule points out if it is failed, every model in the unit gets WS1. Even the General.
Can someone with more experience confirm if this is the right interpretation?
Sorry for the verbose explanation, English isn't my first language so I tend to overexplain sometimes.

Lord Inquisitor
01-06-2012, 17:18
This is really weird and I only discovered this recently.

- If the character is immune to psychology but the unit isn't, then the whole unit is subject to fear/terror/panic and must test. Bizarrely, the general will still be subject to the effects of Fear if the unit fails the test, even though he is immune to psych. On the other hand, if the majority of models are immune to psych (e.g. if a character joins an immune to psych unit), then the test is passed automatically and the whole unit, including the non-immune models benefit from this effect.

- If the general causes fear himself but the unit does not, then the unit must still test for fear. If the test is failed, then the models that don't cause fear are reduced to WS1 and the ones that do cause Fear are immune.

It's very odd that models that are "immune to psychology" aren't actually immune if their units aren't. I'm not sure whether this was the intent but the above are how the rules are written.

Vilrandir
01-06-2012, 18:13
Thank you Lord Inquisitor. It did come through as really odd, I guess it derives from the name of the ability including "Immune" which makes us think that the model is completely immune to psychology and unable to be affected in any way... which it isn't. Much to my Vampire Lord's satisfaction (and it's hunger too) I must say.

Artinam
02-06-2012, 12:36
@Lord Inquisitor, discovered this as well recently. A Bretonnian character with the Grail Vow has become even more pointless if joining a non ITP unit.

Mid'ean
04-06-2012, 02:56
Brings a whole new light on the shrieking blade. For 10 points a single character can make an entire enemy unit quake in their boots......:shifty: