View Full Version : If they ever did.....2:the poll

Wolf Sgt Kirke
02-05-2006, 12:40
WARNING: If you don't want to discuss the unlikely possibility of a 40k film then don't post here:WARNING

Question is what would everyone rather see, An all CGI 40k film like DoW or a mix of CGI and live action like LoTR and why?

Me I think actors emote better than sprites and garner an emotional attachment from their audience, which makes it all the more fun when they die. I shoot wat too many sprites in games to care when one dies on the big screen.

of course this opens up the whole subject of which actor plays who in what story?......

02-05-2006, 18:37
Actors definately. Much more capable than sprites and with todays technology can be made just as ugly/beautiful/down right wrong as needs be. I'd prefer a British actor to be honest (no disrespect to anyone else, just a preference). Although the amount of yonger British talent is a little thin on the ground these days, unless I just don't get out much.

02-05-2006, 18:39
Whats DoW in this context?

02-05-2006, 18:49
Dawn of War, the latest 40k PC game (and pretty much the best 40k PC game in the past decade). The opening movie for it is completely computer-rendered, and is EXTREMELY high-quality.

That said, paraphrasing something from the extras on one of the LotR extended sets: "There's just something about actually having a physical model that computers still can't do."

While they were talking about why they did so much stuff in their insanely-large miniatures as opposed to just making it with CGI, it applies even more strongly to the actors vs. CGI characters debate. Right now, the upper limit of realism for computer-generated characters is firmly in what's known as the Uncanny Valley, where it's just short enough from being completely realistic that it creeps everyone out.

Personally, I'd like to see them take the WETA approach and make real sets, miniatures, animatronic characters/costumes, etc. whenever possible. Actors just can't react to a blank blue screen and someone yelling "okay, it's really big and really ugly and you're scared of it!" the way they can to a large stuntman with a partially-animatronic, fully articulated Ork costume yelling "WAAAAAAAAGH!" right into their faces.

02-05-2006, 19:34
CGI please matron.
With all of the outlandish stuff in the 41st Millenium CGI would be a lot easier to deal with than live action, look at what Square did with Sprirts within, last flight of the Osiris and FFVII:Advent Children.

A live action 40K movie would look like even more like George Lucas's wet dream than his last three films.

02-05-2006, 19:35
I don't really like those CGI movies that much and I think it's makes the characters just cartoons. if they do a WH40 movie it needs to be about real people. there's only the problem that we've already had Starship Troopers and if they do a 'real' movie they need to take it to a different setting (so no Imperial Guards and no 'nids) 'cos otherwise everyone will think it's starship Troopers 3 (not that there's anything wrong with that).

oh and if people (like I, in my feeble youth) think Paul Verhoeven's Starship Troopers is rip-of from 40k you're mistaken. 40k is the rip-of of the original Starship troopers book.

I'd love to see a movie about an Inquisitor, no big battles just the dark BladeRunner like hunt for a witch (or something).


02-05-2006, 19:46
Mix it up.:D LotR proved that it is best with both.:D

02-05-2006, 19:56
Bah! No CGI at all! I say they build EVERYTHING!

Seriously, though, I'd rather see an all-CGI movie, along the lines of Appleseed or something. But with less annoying voice actors.

02-05-2006, 20:07
I would prefer a hybrid. Rendered humans become cartoons like many have said but a LotR/SW type blend would be nice. Though Star Wars' CG characters stood out wayyyy to much.

For factions, IG would have to be one of them for at least the initial project. Space Marines/Space Marinettes(sob) are too emotionally detached from humanity for a general audience to be compelled by. They would certainly fit in but not as primary characters. For the enemy, Necrons, Chaos, and Orks seem to fit the bill best. It's hard to call though.

However, I don't think the timing is right for another space fantasy/scifi epic. We just had the not so epic conclusion of the Star Wars and Matrix trilogies and with Battlestar Galactica and all the other space operas on the Sci-Fi Channel here in the US I think any dark space epic would be seen as cheesy(Chronicles of Riddick anyone?). At this time I don't think the general culture in the US is right for 40k.

02-05-2006, 22:46
Ohhhhh - that says THESPIANS...

Here I was having some weird thoughts about Sisters of Battle.

- Color me disappointed.

Mad Doc Grotsnik
02-05-2006, 22:58
Thespians all the way.

It might sound a bit pretentious, but the 40k Background is closer to classical literature and Greek mythological style than an action film.

Thespian actors use more than just tone of voice. Body language is very important, and can be used to portray the inner monologue. If someone turns on their heels and marches away after their spiel, they are either confident in their convictions, or following orders they'd rather not have to. If they turn slowly, it's likely that they are about to do something they must, but something they also regret already.

For example, an Inquisitor might think nothing of Virus bombing the victorious Imperial Guard in case they have been tainted by their foe, whereas a Space Marine Captain, or even Chapter Master (no, make that ESPECIALLY a Chapter Master) might be pained, but understand why it is necessary. The Inquisitor would turn on his heels, and march into his Shuttle, whereas the SM might show regret in his body language.

CGI just can't do this very well!

The Dude
03-05-2006, 01:07
I think if it had to happen, it'd have to be Live Action. Not sure about content, but I dont see the problem with guard, although I do see how the comparisons to Starship Troopers would come, they'd just have to be Vallhallans or some other invented regiment that didn't look anything like Cadians ;). I would worry about Necrons and a Terminator connection. I think Eldar would have to feature in there somewhere. I think some of the newer art involving Eldar makes them look more alien and less like Elves, so the comparison, whilst not unlikely, would at least be minimised.

I mean, if we're totally honest, the only 40K race that is completely original is Tau (although some people may stretch a Robotech link there). I think they'd be good as either Protagonists or Antagonists. They also offer a good counterpoint to the Empire politically.

03-05-2006, 03:03
why does it have to be from the marine perspective? i would absolutely LOVE an Ork main character's side of a story
but yeah...something like LoTR would show a lot more emotion and such than just pure CG...

The Dude
03-05-2006, 03:31
Marines should be seen from a distance and be, like, totally devastating to their opponents. having them Drop Pod in and bail out some Guard who you think are finished would be sweet. Imagine there's a huge mob of Orks about to overrun them and then a squad of Terminators teleport in right in front of them and gun the Orks down with Storm Bolter and Assault Cannon fire as Drop Pods rain from the sky.


03-05-2006, 03:54
I say mix go all computer animation using actors would not work in my opinion

03-05-2006, 04:10
Mixing live and CGI is where problems come in, there isn't the programming to handle it at the moment.

However all CGI can be great (Final fantasy looked tremendous even if it was a crappy story).

A CGI movie just like the opening to DoW would rock, hard!

03-05-2006, 08:23
As I've already said in the 1st If they ever did thread, I'm going for all CGI. Imagine all the extra gore you could add in. The scale of the wars could fit into it too, sure LoTR battle were big, but this is 40k where we have planetary wars!!1!! plus there would have to be bits in space, where you'd have to CG it....so why not just have the whole movie as one thing.

03-05-2006, 08:35
I vote for sprites, where all the characters always face the camera and you never see the back of them.

I think if anyone was going to attempt this it would be best using some kind of animation, either CGI or drawn animation. Some sci-fi movie made from a hobby game is never going to get a budget so it would be better to have some decent animation than have to see Uwe Boll direct Ben Affleck in WH40K.

Dr Death
03-05-2006, 15:48
I would have to go actors, i just cant take things using sprites seriously, they just fall into the "culty nerd" circle too easily. By using actors you get another dimension to the peice, something computers can never hack. If you look at a real persons face you get an instant reaction, you know they are real and even a crap script can be carried through with a decent performance. Personally though, cool though a film based on warhammer 40k may be, it would be a practically impossible task. Warhammer 40k is drawn from films, taking the mismash of regurgitated media of 40k and slapping it back onto the silver screen simply couldnt work, particularly for a feature length drama.

Dr Death

Getifa Ubazza
03-05-2006, 20:43
I would say a bit of both but mostly CGI as i feel real actors would ham it up to much.

Corlock Striker
03-05-2006, 20:46
Personally, I'd go for all CGI. It's not that I don't like Thespians, or don't think they can't bring something to the movie that CGI lacks, it more has to do with the over all look of things. With real people the 40k Universe is never going to look quite right, Power Armor will look all flimsy or something, who knows. It's not to say it couldn't be done, LoTR is a perfect example of getting the right look for the world using real actors, but as someone else pointed out, a 40k movie would never get that kind of budget.

As for the whole animated movies being slapped with the nerdy cult label, I got news for you, it's a 40k movie, it's already got that label. You may as well embrace it.

Now, as for animation not being able to express emotion and what not. That's a crock of *****. My proof? Transformers: The Movie, Optimus Prime's death, don't lie, you know you cried. Also, Disney movies. You can get facial expressions, and body language in animation. The burden for how well emotion is portrayed in animation lays not only at the feet of the animators, but also at the feet of the voice actors. Good voice actors, just like good actors, bring that missing factor to a performance and a character, whether the character be animated, or portrayed in real life by said actor.

03-05-2006, 20:54
The eisenhorn trilogy should be made into film. Its awesome.

Patrick Stweart would make a brilliant eisenhorn, as an aside.

04-05-2006, 02:16
patrick stewart is THE warhammer actor. he could voice any character well, from abaddon to gaunt

04-05-2006, 02:31
3rd War for Armaggedon. Perfect. Patrick Stewart could be Commisar Yarick aka the man that got me into 40k a million years ago.

The only time an orc talks should be when Ghazkull recites that speach from the 3rd ed Orks codex about how the ork race needs enemies like Yarick to keep the boyz tuff.

04-05-2006, 12:30

Patrick Stewart
Max von Sydow
Christopher Lee
Judi Dench
Johnny Depp
Lawrence Fishburne

Space Marines:

Arnold Schwarzenegger
Dolph Lundgren
Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson

Imperial Guard Officers:

Lance Henriksen
Christopher Walken
Rowan Williams
Sean Bean


04-05-2006, 13:19
As I see it, there's basically two sides to 40K. There's the clean, flashy side, which would be great in CGI. You'd have your Space Marines (more 2nd edition style than current), Eldar and various aliens, zooming around in their skinners, shooting their rayguns.

Then there's also the dirty, gritty side, which would be at best difficult to do in animation without weirding most people out. But it could be done with real actors, sets and props very well. 40K can very well be done without relying heavily on CG. Star Wars originally got around without it, and that looked a lot slicker and advanced than 40K should.

But then I don't tend to get a lot of enjoyment out of big battle sequences or special effects. For me it's all about the actors and their characters, and occasionally the dialogue and plot if they stand out. When it comes to the look of things, the modeller in me is turned off by stuff that only exists inside a computer.

Dr Death
04-05-2006, 14:36
Well theres a fine line between the jokingly nerdy parody of every film going and "Matrix style" pseudo philosophy which in fact means pretty much nothing other than giving a supposed answer to basic philosophical questions. Personally i never saw the Transformers film so i cant judge on the relative emotion of a death scene in it but it would be the easiest thing in the world for a 40k film of whatever variety to climb up its own backside which it almost inevitably will if you make it all CG.

Computer images are an increasingly prominent supplement to human drama but there is a 99.9999999% change they will never replace it. With real actors, particularly famous ones, you can drag them through the mincer and the audience will follow, because they are real people and you can suspend your disbeleif that they are in that situation you place them in, pixels just dont have that.

Dr Death

04-05-2006, 18:36
I'd like to see a mix of live and cgi. CGI is nice, but you just cant beat an actual living person and what they bring to a role. Each actor/actress's quirks and their personality bring the characters to life in a whole new way. The CGI would be for the big stuff that would be really hard to recreate in real life life tanks/thunderhwaks/dreads/demons/titans/etc.. Hollywood's make up department can more than do the alien races justice, look at the LotR Orcs and Urakhi.

04-05-2006, 19:15
Real actors please.

04-05-2006, 21:24
Does anyone else think the first tyrannic war on ultramar would be the prefect setting for a 40k Movie. Clear protaganists and antagonists. Alot of mystery and intrigue as the hive fleet slowly munchs its way to the ultramarines domain. Horrific battles that demonstrate the awsomeness of the 40k universe. Its an idea that could be brought to the big screen with either actors or in CG. All it needs to be is gritty, dark, and true to the 40k universe.

04-05-2006, 21:54
A mix would be good, people for the stuff like soldiers, CGI for stuff like ships and tanks and such.

There are so many things that a movie could be based on it's mind-boggling.
Personally I would like something about Armageddon or the Deus Sanguinius/Encarmine books.

04-05-2006, 22:31
I think humans really need to be played by actors if we're going to have anything like empathy for them - no amount of great CGI can ever truly make up for a real person doing something.

Eldar, Orks etc I don't think would matter as much since they look so different from humans anyway. Marines? Well, as long as they were just in the background rather than characters they could be CGIed.

05-05-2006, 00:54
Now, as for animation not being able to express emotion and what not. That's a crock of *****. My proof? Transformers: The Movie, Optimus Prime's death, don't lie, you know you cried. Also, Disney movies.

I just pulled out the old tape and I really came close to crying all over. The voice actor read the hell out of those lines.

Master Jeridian
05-05-2006, 02:06
I'm sorry if we're not meant to give reason for not having a 40k film, but..

..the 40k universe, and namely the Imperium, is one of the most fascist, brutal regimes ever created. Death and war are it's religion, mass murderers are saints- everything is doom or gloom.

Selling that to a pro-freedom, pro-democracy public (i.e. the West)- as the good guys, the one's your supposed to root for?

So that leaves two choices:

1) Produce a movie true to 40k, that only 40k players understand. At best, it flops at the box office, at worst it is misinterpreted as Nazi propoganda.

2) Follow the Hollywood model- have an all-American family man hero (though the new vogue is all Heroines, no men- ala Tomb Raider, Silent Hill, Resident Evil), a romantic love interest, a dastardly villain (preferably Middle Eastern). Strangely the 40k universe doesn't look so evil- it even has Starbucks and Pepsi advertisements..

I fear 2).

Anyway, I'd go with CGI- GW can't afford the millions to produce a full budget film (despite our disbelief), a low budget film wouldn't do 40k justice.
Just watch the opening credit for DoW- that is the CGI I can appreciate. Sure it doesn't seem real, but then I knew the Orks in LOTR where men dressed up too!

As for the story? Cynic as I am:

It would have to include SM's, GW biggest sellers. Imagine all the kids watching the film, then finding out they can pretend to be the Marines with model.. $$$.

It would have to include humans with modern ideals (or, shudder, make the SM's 'modern'), otherwise the audience would never root for them, or feel attached when they die.
Name me a film that has had success with no human characters (or animals acting like humans).

The story would have to be pretty simple- you can't expect the audience to know all of 40k history, etc.


Guard are an obvious choice, though others have mentioned non-war films such as Eisenhorn, I think this would miss the point of a 40k movie.

I agree Marines should only be seen from a distance, through the Guard's POV. Marines to the rescue, huge scary armoured monsters- that would be awesome.

Antagonist? Tricky to do since GW has ripped off so many people.

Orks- to much like LOTR Orks, to fantasy.
Tyranids- to much like Alien, and the bugs from Starship Troopers.
Eldar/DE- to much like humans, a personal opinion but I'm tired of aliens being almost identical to humans or at least humanoid (Star Trek, Star Wars, etc)- it's just way too convenient.
Tau- the most original for GW (bar Chaos), but the whole good guy Fascist Imperium beating down the evil Modern Tech, Ideals Tau is not going to go over well.

If I could choose of course- I'd do the Horus Heresy as a trilogy (for more profit)- it's the most complete, in-depth, mature (as opposed to 'let's blow stuff up'), well-thought out part of 40k.

05-05-2006, 03:19
My thought is most people who say live action haven't seen the Dawn of War Intro trailer.

Oh, and CGI isn't sprite based.

05-05-2006, 03:32
I would like to see a mix of both. The stuff that makes DoW cool and actors to make it more believable.

The Dude
05-05-2006, 03:32
..the 40k universe, and namely the Imperium, is one of the most fascist, brutal regimes ever created. Death and war are it's religion, mass murderers are saints- everything is doom or gloom.

Selling that to a pro-freedom, pro-democracy public (i.e. the West)- as the good guys, the one's your supposed to root for?

Tau- the most original for GW (bar Chaos), but the whole good guy Fascist Imperium beating down the evil Modern Tech, Ideals Tau is not going to go over well.

Well I think Tau would be perfect as it would really confuse people, especially if both sides were shown in equal measure.

Hardcore God fearin' flag wavin' democracy lovin' American - "Who do I go for? the Nazis or the Commies? My head asplode!" :D

I think there are quite a few movies that show a totalitarian future for mankind. I don't think it really matters. Particularly if you show the general populace being pretty satisfied with the system and convey that whilst it's a brutal system, it's the only think keeping mankind alive.

05-05-2006, 04:33
Horus Heresy actually isn't a bad idea, the primarchs have much more personality(and thus humanity/identifiability?word?) that footslogger marines. That would also allow GW to dodge some of the "ripoff" bullets as the primary enemies would be corrupt humans, mutants, and minor alien races that could be made up as they come.

More to the point, the story of unification of the Imperium has so much to offer. The destruction of the Emperor's glorious vision and from it the emergence of the despicable survival institution that is the Imperium is a powerful image. As is the Emperor himself falling from the pinnacle of human greatness(the guy makes JC look like Matt Dilon) to a rotting corpse devouring the souls of his infinite subjects so his underlings can point to him as the source of their abused authority. Not to mention the twenty individual primarchs that get to be developed into heroes then half of them turn into monsters. There's so much dynamic to the story.

And seriously, Sanguinus vs Horus? That'll put the dance-offs George Lucas thinks are epic duels to complete and utter shame.

Dr Death
05-05-2006, 10:41
Well i think its important to point out that this would never happen, not in a million years....of sundays. The reasons for such a plain fact are too many to name, the audience issue, the fact that 40k is essentially a rip off of every film out there, the geekiness of it. So with that in mind, all those inconvenient practical concerns like audience response, budget, making sure joe america likes it etc. can go out the window.

Personally as a storyline i favour the Horus Heresy for a number of reasons:
1) It sets up the entire universe, without it people really wont be able to grasp quite whats going on
2) Its huge. As regards "grand spectacle" and what i would like to see as the one and only outing of 40k on screen, you cannot beat 20 legions of genetically altered super humans lead by practical gods having a good old smash up
3) It has a plot. Paradise Lost in the far future, betrayal and redeption, the fall of mankinds hope, these are the themes that stay with you. They're so epic because they have a clear beginning middle and end and an end which isnt futile or vain.

Naturally it would be a trilogy (what dork central cinematic story isnt these days?) just to get it all in would need a trilogy, despite however much i would like to break the mould and just have two films. However, this shouldnt be your classic good vrs evil fight, this story is about choice, Horus' choice- To let humanity stagnate at the hands of a leader disinterested in its acheivement beyond his own personal empire, or to throw your lot in with those you have spent your life fighting for the sake of mankind's glory. Only once you see Sanguinius lying at Horus' feet should you truly understand the cost of glory.

Obviously we could not feature all the primarchs to the level of detail we should like and so therefore i feel the cheif players should be those present at the end- The Emperor, Rogal Dorn, Sanguinius and Jaghatai Khan representing the loyal. While Horus, Angron, Mortarion, Fulgrim and Magnus lead the rebellion. Others will feature but as more minor characters. The series' structure should run something like this-

Film One- Starts with the primarchs already established as the leaders of the chapters, takes you through the great crusade, to the corruption of Horus and preparations for the rebellion. Also featured is the assault on prospero and the plight of Konrad Curze is highlighted as propetic

Film Two- Starts with the opening shots- Istvaan V and takes you through the main bulk of the Heresy, up untill the race to earth.

Film Three- Dominated by the seige of earth and the Emperor's palace, not one long battle scene but rather a backdrop of carnage to the personal fall from grace of those traitor primarchs and the corruption of their goal of advancement to the simple lust for power. The Whole thing should end with the Emperor interred on the Golden Throne (i've always had the image of a slow camera move out from his face to show the full extent of the life support system).

Right, theres some thoughts. Have at them.

Dr Death

05-05-2006, 15:23
I think it would be awesome to see it in '80's style animation, with some facets updated to keep it looked too outdated, but I'd have to stay away from CG and say it would look really good as a cartoon, or as a damnatus-eque movie...albiet a bit more produced.

Wolf Sgt Kirke
11-05-2006, 10:41
Dr Death you read my mind! how did you do that?:confused:

11-05-2006, 11:11
I am all for CGI. If the quality is as good as the DoW intro or the Warhammer Online trailer, Id say do it.

Wolf Sgt Kirke
11-05-2006, 11:13
whatever happened to warhammer online, i haven't heard of it in ages?

Lame Duck
11-05-2006, 18:30
if the main characters are IG, then youd have to use actors, space marines would have to be done using CGI, theres no other way to do them properly.

As for the plot- Dr death is right on!

11-05-2006, 19:14
Kirke: Warhammer Online died, was acquired by Mythic Entertainment, and is currenly alive and kicking.

I'm a lot less skeptical about the prospect of a 40k movie being CGI now that I've seen the trailer for Mark of Chaos. With that level of artistry and detail, it'd work.

11-05-2006, 19:33
They're making a World Of Warcraft computer animated movie...why not 40k?

Lt. Co Steel
11-05-2006, 21:15
They're making a World Of Warcraft computer animated movie...why not 40k?

They're making a movie about world of warcraft? do you have any links for it?

11-05-2006, 21:30
Two ways to do it: Imperium V Tau (The sound of American exploding heads is funny) or Horus Heresy, showing the whole idea of the 40k universe.