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Cloudscape_online
06-06-2005, 14:33
Advanced 4th Edition

This is the bolt-on pack for the 4th Edition Advanced rules. It increases the degrees of realism in the game.

Shooting

Area terrain and Line of sight
With all terrain the “What you see is what you get” rule applies. If a unit can actually draw line of sight to another unit, they can affect it in the shooting phase. Area terrain less than 6” deep can bee seen through, though still grants cover saves.

Overwatch
At the beginning of your turn, any of your units with defensive weapons you control may make a Leadership test. If failed, the squad cannot move or assault that turn, only shoot. If the test is passed, the squad does not move, shoot or assault in their turn, instead at the beginning of the opponents assault phase they may open fire with S6 or less weapons against an enemy unit. Normal shooting restrictions apply. If the Overwatch unit becomes engaged in close combat, fails a leadership test or is forced to move, the Overwatch is broken.

Rapid fire
Troops with rapid-fire weapons who do not move in their movement phase may shoot twice up to their maximum range. If they do move, they may shoot once at 12” range. Units with rapid-fire weapons may not assault on the turn that they open fire.

Flamers vs. Foliage
Any flamer template that covers more than 50% of a piece of jungle/wood/foliage scenery destroys that terrain. Normal shooting rules apply.

Explosives vs. Terrain
Any S7+ blast or ordnance template that covers more than 50% of a piece of terrain can destroy that terrain. Any unit with a S7+ blast or ordnance weapon can target a single piece of terrain for destruction. Normal shooting restrictions apply.
Size 1: 2+ on a D6. Replace the scenery with a piece of Size 1 Area terrain no bigger than the blast marker.
Size 2: 4+ on a D6. Replace the scenery with a piece of Size 1 Area terrain no bigger than the blast marker.
Size 3: 6+ on a D6. Replace the scenery with a piece of Size 1 Area terrain no bigger than the blast marker.
For each point of strength above 7, add +1 to the die roll. Size 1 area terrain cannot be destroyed.

Psychic Power
Psykers may utilise an additional psychic power for each point they pass their leadership by. Units in range of the psykers can only be targeted once by the psyker.

Vehicles

Roads
Any tracked/wheeled Vehicle travelling along a road for at least 6” automatically gains 6” to its movement total. This does not count towards shooting restrictions for vehicle movement.

Vehicles vs. Terrain
All vehicles with front armour of 12 or more may destroy Size 1 and Size 2 terrain by tank-shocking that terrain piece. Take a dangerous terrain test, and if failed, the vehicle suffers an automatic glancing hit using a D3 on the Glancing table. Skimmers cannot perform this manoeuvre. If successful, replace the scenery with a piece of Size 1 Area terrain.

Sponsons
One of the sponson-mounted weapons may fire at a different target in the shooting phase. If both sponsons can target the same unit, they must. All other shooting rules apply.

Antaeus
06-06-2005, 15:01
Some nice ideas, especially ze sponsons. The effects on terrain are also pretty nifty, though a lot of people simply wouldn't have the terrain to spare and wouldn't be able to use these extra rules. Still, could add an extra tactical element by blowing up cover and stuff.

Rapid fire: I prefer it as it is now. I think Eldar Guardians would be even mroe annoyed if this became the rules ;) I always think that if a unit is moving, its ability to hit a target at long range would be pretty negligible, hence one less shot.

Overwatch I like though, interesting take on it.

x-esiv-4c
06-06-2005, 15:28
Yeah I like the modifications.
I would like to see Psykers being more of a threat though, like they were in second ed.

Commissar von Toussaint
14-06-2005, 02:29
They are good as far as they go. Definately they help.

A couple of years ago I put a lot of effort into trying to fix 3rd ed. but gave up. It's just too broken.

The real problem is the engine that drives the game, the core system.

Last fall I dusted off 2nd edition and played a game. It was actually pretty fun. Since then my gaming group has gotten back into 40k with a vengeance, adding new squads and whole armies to our old dusty collections.

So I applaud your efforts, but for me the easiest thing is just to add some small fixes to 2nd ed.

x-esiv-4c
14-06-2005, 02:47
Psychology is also a massivly underrated part of 4th ed...3rd ed too.

Freak Ona Leash
14-06-2005, 11:14
Well, I have some rules I bootlegged from WAB that deal with Psychology. I just hope I'm not hijacking this thread posting them...Confident & Edgy: As ripped off from WAB!
I think the current rules for morale are somewhat…lacking, that’s a nice, unharsh word. Yes, they cover running away nice and well, but once again they seem too “all or nothing”. You either run away or you are completely confident. I think these rules (nicely ripped off from Warhammer Ancient Battles and modified for 40k)

Edgy: It is very common for soldiers of all races to feel nervousness , fear and other uncomfortable emotions when faced with overwhelming force or watching their comrades torn apart. It is something usually referred to as “common sense” A unit is edgy when any of the following happen. (Note: Edgy and confident rules do not apply to Fearless models

-Watch army leader (HQ with highest LD) die. Has to be in line of sight and 12” from unit.
-One friendly unit above 50% strength that is not Vehicle and has leadership 7 or above (so things like Grots don’t make Ork boyz unhappy and whatnot) is completely destroyed in one turn. Can be any distance away from unit but has to be in LOS of at least one model in unit.
-Unit is below 50% strength.
-If the model has to take a Last Man Standing Morale Check, it is Edgy (confusing wording maybe?)
Rules for Edgy are as follows. A unit that is Edgy is takes +1 to morale checks and due to their agitated state have difficulty shooting and therefore shoot at one BS skill point lower than normal.

Confident: Confident rules apply if one (or more) of the below requirements are met. Quite obviously, a unit may not be confident and edgy at the same time. So, if the one of the below requirements and one of the above requirements (or more) then the unit is “normal”.
-Unit is at full strength.
-Unit watched and/or participated in death of enemy leader (see above definition). Has to be at least 12” from enemy leader (unless they shot him/she/it to death) and in LOS.
-Watched and/or participated in a enemy unit of above LD 7 and above 50% unit strength getting completely destroyed in one turn. Has to have at least one model in unit be in LOS of unit that was destroyed. Can be any distance away from unit that is destroyed.
Confident troops get -1 to morale check, I.e. a unit of Confident Guardsmen are defeated in CC. They role an 8 for Morale Check. But, because they are confident, it is reduced to 7 and they pass. Feel free to delete this if it is hijack of thread. I just thought they would add more morale-wise to the game.

EDITED: Better?

Anvils Hammer
14-06-2005, 11:44
you do reallise that a game will be over as soon as one general gets killed, the combination of destroying one sides moral and boosting the others will make the game a glorified hunt the leader.
also plus 1 to wound rolls is stupidly over powered. you are saying that my fearless khorne bezerkers wound on 4s aganst smurfs,. but the smurfs wound on 3s just because they are full strenght?

Hoshi No Koe
14-06-2005, 11:52
I also like some of the changes you've made. I really like your take on the psyker rules. Maybe change it to every 2 points the test is passed by though, as it could become very powerfull as it is. What I miss most is the psychic duels possible in 2nd ed represented by the card system. A modification I was thinking of applying was to allow all psykers in the game to engage another psyker in a mind duel using something akin to the brain flayer rules of a rogue psyker.
What I propose:
If an enemy psyker attempts to use a psychic power within a range equal to the model's ldx3, the psyker may engage him in a mind duel in an attempt to cancel the psychic power. Both psykers roll a D6 and add their ld value to the roll. If the attacking psyker wins the roll, the power is cancelled and the opponent suffers a wound with no normal saves possible (inv saves may still be taken). If the attacker loses the roll, the psychic power can still be attempted (the psychic test is taken after the mind duel) and he suffers a wound instead. On a draw nothing happens and the psychic test can be taken as normal.

Your terrain, overwatch, and sponson rules are also nice. I would only add to the foliage rules that the terrain area catches fire when flamers are used on it and that it counts as dangerous terrain whil on fire. Roll a D6 at the start of every turn, on 4+ the terrain burns out and counts as light cover from then on (6+ cover save and doesn't block line of sight, burned three stumps can still provide some cover and the like).

I'm quite happy with how area terrain and rapid fire work in 40k though.

If you don't mind I'd like to steal some of your ideas for the heroic skirmish rules based on LotR I'm developping (in this same forum, link in my sig).

Commissar von Toussaint
15-06-2005, 21:45
I wasn't a big fan of the old psyker rules. They slowed things down too much. I wouldn't mind seeing a simplified system for them, though.

Another nice thing about 2nd is that vehicles actually could zip around the board and do something. None of this sillyness where tanks can't outrun footsoldiers with power fists. :rolleyes:

But I'm generally for house rules in any event.

Cloudscape_online
17-06-2005, 22:41
Just add 2" movement to all vehicles (except Walkers), and bump the motion/shot restriction by 2" as well.

keatsmeister
18-06-2005, 10:50
Several good ideas in here, particularly the flamers vs foliage. One of the best aspects of the games I've played has been the hide and seek nature, whereby an annoying jump pack unit uses its ability to ignore terrain to snatch an objective and make off with it. Being unable to keep up, I simply demolish any intervening terrain giving room for my bikes and guns to wreak havoc.

I'm not too sure about that 'confident' rule though. I like the concept, but in combat, if they're confident they do their job as prescribed, so I'd focus more on the issue of over-confidence. Perhaps adapt the rule from Lucius the Eternal whereby against "lesser" opponents they can't be as bothered as against their peers and betters. Am I making sense here?

One thing I've been trying is remote detonation devices. These can either be booby traps, or explosives planted during the battle. The size and type of device can vary according to preference, so you could have the equivalent of a block of C4, or a viral spore container with a remotely detonated hand-grenade. Roll a D6 to see if the device goes off. A roll of 1 always means a dud. If within 6" of the device, it detonates on 2+, if within 12" it detonates on 3+, within 18" 4+, upto 24" and 5+. Assume no detonator can have a range in excess of 24". You can place the device using one of two methods. EITHER place a visible marker on the table at the location OR write the specific location on a piece of paper, and leave this face down on the table until detonated.

Just a couple of thoughts there