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SteelTitan
05-06-2012, 14:45
Hey!

Here's a list I am quite happy with. It plays nice, has an overall strategy and looks good on the table. I'm planning on taking it to tournaments. Now that I gained some experience with it, I'd like some feedback.


*Vampire Lord

Level 4
Barded Nightmare
Ogre Blade
Talisman of Preservation
Dragon Helm
Ironcurse Icon
Red Fury
Quick Blood
Summon Creatures of the Night
Shield
Heavy Armour

Lore of the Vampires
548



*Vampire

Level 2
Barded Nightmare
Battle Standard Bearer
Screaming Banner
Supernatural Horror
Fear Incarnate
Shield
Lance
Heavy Armour

Lore of the Vampires
265



*Necromancer [goes with skeletons]
Dispel Scroll
Master of the Dead

Lore of the Vampires

110


*Necromancer [goes with one unit of zombies to fire off his rod. After he runs back to the skeleton bunker]
Rod of Flaming Death

Lore of the Vampires
105



*Banshee 95



*Zombies 40x
Musician
Standard Bearer
130


*Zombies 40x
Musician
Standard Bearer
130


*Zombies 40x
Musician
Standard Bearer
130


*Skeleton Warriors 20x
Skeleton Champion
Musician
Standard Bearer

130


Dire Wolves 5x 40

Dire Wolves 5x 40

Dire Wolves 5x 40



*Black Knights 13x
Barding
Lances
Champion
Musician
Standard Bearer
Banner of Eternal Flame

378


*Spirit Host 45

*Spirit Host 45

*Fell Bats 2x 32

*Fell Bats 2x 32


*Varghulf 175




Lords 548
Heroes 575
Core 640
Special 532
Rare 175


2470

30 left


I'm looking forward to people's opinions. Also, if you have any idea what to do with the 30 leftover points, let me know :)
Because of the comp system, I'm not allowed to take more ethereals or more units of fell bats...which is too bad because I could have fit in a 3rd unit of bats.

Thanks!

SteelTitan
06-06-2012, 09:25
Small update: I decided to drop one skeleton and slap on a level 2 upgrade on the first necromancer. Gives him better odds at caster IoN on one die, if needed.

Rosstifer
06-06-2012, 09:52
If your going the Bus route, why not go the whole way and bump up the Black Knight unit, and add 2 more hero Vampires to the bus? Has been making holes in the world in the UK recently.

Soundwave
06-06-2012, 16:26
How is the banshee working in this list?I generally do not use them preferring cairn wraiths for a little combat nous?

tehhelios
06-06-2012, 17:37
2500 points and ONE combat unit? I dont like it.
Atleast put a terrorgeist for some shooting in there.

SteelTitan
06-06-2012, 19:53
That one combat unit is around 1200 points and should roll over everything it encounters. If not, I should redirect and stall it (hence the zombie spam) or if not, I lose that unit and thus lose the game.
I don't think a Terrorgheist makes a difference in this particular respect. It doesn't make up for not having multiple CC units and it's shooting will also not hurt those units that the cavbus cant take on. CC wise you're better off with a Varghulf which is also more survivable on the way in.

@ Soundwave: The banshee is the latest addition and was recommended to me by playing against a seasoned Lizardmen player. His Scar Veterans were free to roam the battlefield and he adviced me to 'upgrade' the wraith to a banshee. While I don't like the increase in points, I did already learn that the difference a wraith makes in combat is negligible. During my last game, it was quite nice to have that Banshee in a large zombie unit, which was charged by a Doomwheel. He couldn't target the Banshee, yet I could scream at him every turn while he tried to grind down my zombies.

@ Rosstifer: I'm not familiar with such tournament lists. I thought to have found a good balance between the strength/size of the bus and the amount of chaff and other units. It could very well be that my list is far from optimized but I don't know if I'm comfortable investing even more points into that one unit, not from a gaming but also not from a 'social' point of view. I am always interested to see good builds though and have been looking to find tournament lists from the major tournaments in the UK but unfortuately I have yet to find them. Any ideas?

squirtopus
06-06-2012, 19:55
As much is i like the Black knight bus, i think it died with 8th edition. In 7th my favorite tournament/no brainer steamroll army was the fully kitted out black knight bus.
Back then you had the blooddrinker, combined with red fury, so you could put back 3 to 4 knights just by hitting in combat with your lord. On top of that you had the awesome drakenhof banner, which gave the entire unit regen which back then stacked with wardaves so you your vampires were pretty much ukillable with 1+ 4+ 4+ and immune to killing blow on the lord and 1+ 5+ 4+ on other vamps. You could also take regen saves against combat res back then to top it off so it was just pretty awesome and I only lost 1 game with it in 30 something matches.

Now however, all of the fun trickery to make it a real steamroll is gone imho and it is just a bus, and there is lot's of things that stand tall if you drive a bus against it, not so much with a steamroller. That's pretty much the poetical point i'm making: the Cavstar list is 7th ed, let it go if you want to be competitive.

SteelTitan
06-06-2012, 20:06
Hehe, well, it's not really letting go because I never played my VC in 7th :P but I get your point.

I totally understand how powerful that build was in 7th but don't you think that maybe it was over the top and that now, without many of the trickery, it's been brough in line, toned down to a normal level for its points? Sure, it's not a sure win...you still gotta play it smart, pick your combats, redirect properly, as with every list.

But you definitely seem to have more experience with it that me. I'm hoping to take this list to my first ever tournament in August and then I can experience it for myself! ;)

squirtopus
06-06-2012, 22:35
aaah, you missed the golden age of steamrolling, feel for you bro :) In 7th it was definitely way over the top. There was absolutely zero tactics involved when i played it. I just put it down in the middle of the table ( only other stuff i had was 2unit of 30 zombies to fill my core :D) checked which was the other guy's most expensive unit, and went full steam in it's direction as the other dude cried and ran away. It was terribly funny, and also terribly inbalanced kind of like some of the wonky daemon builds back then. I would say in todays environment it is a lot harder to pull of this kind of list. Main reason being that last edition you had auto break outnumber fear (god i miss 7th) so you never got stuck more then one turn. Today, if you encounter for instance any decent skaven player, he will pin you down with slaves fill ****in eterinity whilst shooting you to bits when you are in combat (slaves + wlc for the win). Same goes basicly for everybody with a decent size combat block with steadfast and a bsb. Basic point: you will get stuck, and if you do get your bus stuck, that's pretty much GG right there.

To boil it down: I think this can still be competitive, but it will take far better generalship than it took when I played it back in 7th, and there are going to be some matchups you just got no chance of winning i'm afraid ( skaven, empire gunlines, dwarf gunlines, gobbo gunline, lifeslann) but then again i haven't seen any unbeatable lists on here so if you play it right i think you got a decent shot at being competitive under 1 condition.

If you go this kind of deathstar list: don't halve ass it. There is nothing worse than a half ass deathstar. If you are putting 90% of your eggs in one basket, might ass wel put in the other 10% to top it off to since you ain't going to win if this **** goes down anyway. So what i would do. Ditch everything that isn't a zombie to fill your core. Size u the knights a little bit ( 16ish would be fairly optimal I think) and squeeze in every mother****in hard ass hitting vampire you can find into the front of the bus as wel as a decent wight bsb.

once you filled out the truck, spent the rest of your points on fast moving stuff that will redirect fire from the truck such as varghulf/vargheist/terrorgheist.

that's the way i would roll it if i were to play it again right now, but i'm afraid skaven in 8th are just far to nasty and overpowered for me to dust of my vamps once again.
If you take it to a tournament, hit me back on how it went!

cheers!

Soundwave
07-06-2012, 03:29
Ahh thanks for the heads up on the banshee may have to try one out.Its nice to see an army of this size not dominated by necromancers that sit in a corner farming next to a mortis engine. I think you have also struck a nice balance to a degree allot of people are using stars at the moment but with spells such as final transmutation,dwellers below,purple sun and the like it can really ruin the day for them.I am not a tournament player but at least i can see that your wide spread of units wont give to much away in points as long as the black night unit is constantly maintained. Do not expect serious wins for tournament status im finding 8th ed books are still on a lonely island at the moment compared to the cheese and unbalance of 7th ed.:)

Mikael.K
07-06-2012, 07:10
I really like the list. I would just like to see other tricksters shard on the lord, even if the flaming banner takes care of regen.

Frankly
07-06-2012, 07:33
Back then you had the blooddrinker, combined with red fury, so you could put back 3 to 4 knights just by hitting in combat with your lord. On top of that you had the awesome drakenhof banner, which gave the entire unit regen which back then stacked with wardaves so you your vampires were pretty much ukillable with 1+ 4+ 4+ and immune to killing blow on the lord and 1+ 5+ 4+ on other vamps. You could also take regen saves against combat res back then to top it off so it was just pretty awesome and I only lost 1 game with it in 30 something matches.




... you could also play magic movement cavalry lists with spammed necros that would smash/fear and break units and then keep out of LoS for points denial. 7th Edition was a broken (golden)era for mounted units and VC had a broken armybook to boot. :)

In saying all that, I've watched both VC, Brit, WoC and also strangley enough empire BusCav units doing very well at tournies in the last few months. For me atleast its a matter of shifting that mindset of 7th edition to 8th edition and seeing what advantages Cav still have when played on the table top, other people certanly can make it work.

@S.T. Great list. I'm a big fan of fast chaff. Fast MSU units and large fat chaff buses are really having huge effects on the table top around my area and certainly at tournament time.

I'm not a fan of either Vargulfs or banshees, but thats just me. I'd much rather go for another full combat unit of knights or V.gheists or something with alot of attacks to either support combats, smash and grab medium sized combats, help break stead fast etc. Becasue theres only a certain amount of times you can redirect your opponents units before you have to start taking his models off the board.

hazmiter
07-06-2012, 08:28
Nice list steel titan.
25 points left???
Could add 5 skellies, or even add some other odds and ends.
Any room for power stone? Might help.

SteelTitan
07-06-2012, 08:42
I don't think 5 extra skellies adds a lot, considering I also have Master of the Dead. I think my level 2 upgrade for one necro will bring me more utility :) A power stone would be nice to make sure you get something important of, like a much needed IoN when the Knights' numbers run thin. However, all my characters are near their magic item allowance already.

@ Squirt: Haha, that 7th edition cav list sounds horrible! My main opponent plays Skaven and while he doesn't have the nasties list possible, it does include things like an HPA, a Doomwheel, a cannon, 2x40 Slaves, etc and my list stands up to it just fine. The fact that our current comp system doesn't allow you to cast 6-dice Dreaded 13th (max 4 dice to cast a spell) surely takes some of the pressure off! My list has a lot of chaff and it's usually not a problem redirecting Slaves here and there, so that my bus can get to the juicier targets. I totally understand what you're saying about deathstars and 'go big or go home'. But like I said before, I don't think I will enjoy playing a list as 'deathstary' as that and neither will my regular opponents (less of an issue on a tournament i guess :P).

@ Frankly: Yeah, I listen to a lot of podcasts and I hear about more and more armies running cavbusses with success (empire, dark elves, vc, woc). While I do like my Varghulf, it is just one model. The Banshee is also hit and miss, but sometimes hits hard. There is definitely something to say for both choices, both positively and negatively. However, I do like your idea of Vargheists. I actually never considered running them...ever...but for those points (Gulf and Banshee) I could run 2x3 Vargheists which will arguable do more on the table than the two dropped choices. I do hate the models though but I read that Mantic is coming out with good-value-for-money werewolves early next year so hey...interesting! Can't wait to try it out! Thanks!

Frankly
07-06-2012, 16:20
I'd porxy a second combat unit if I were you, especially if your think Vargheists. Vargheists aren't for everyone game wise, I know alot of people who just hate them on the tabletop. I like mobility so I like them.

What I would say that a secondary combat unit would better than 2 heavy support units i.e. 2 x 3 VGs or else your might just run into the problem of over commiting to the 'support' side of your list while not feilding enough 'frontline' units to win you combats. I run into this problem all the time. :)

Enough with the theoryhammering, its a great list anyhow.

hazmiter
07-06-2012, 21:17
Hexwraiths????
I find them a pain.