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Erikjust
07-06-2012, 05:06
(Tried to do a search but didnīt come up with anything)

My question is simple do you consider Miniature painting to be an art form equal to that of painting a picture, sculpting a statue and other such things that is considered art by our society today??

Personally i think miniature painting is an art-form in itself, fully equal to that of all the other branches out there that we consider to be art.
I think what makes it art is that not only do we paint it to look like something, but often we also want our miniatures to tell something. While not a statement on society or anything like that, i think we paint our miniatures in a way fit within the universe we create around our miniatures.

But thatīs just my opinion what do you think is miniature painting an art-form in of itself??

ted1138
07-06-2012, 08:00
Yes, and, no. Yes it is an art form when you see the skill that goes into painting an award winning miniature that inspires you. And no, when you see something that is technically perfectly painted, but lacks any real character or feel.

xxRavenxx
07-06-2012, 08:45
The problem of art is its subjective.


Is this art? (http://img0.reuter-badshop.com/pressalit-modern-art-toilet-seat-w-365-l-434-cm-with-soft-close-and-quick-release--p--pres-762000-d82000_0.jpg)





Its actually a reasonably striking photo from a toilet catalogue that I noticed while trying to find an example :) I thought it would make for a good double bluff. I wonder if its photographer thought it was art though. Its certainly well shot...

Anyway. My feeling is that art is incredably subjective. Comedy is an art. Some wouldn't agree. A footballer might call his profession an art. I'd probably not agree, but I understand the sentiment.

Hellebore
07-06-2012, 08:56
For me it's basically paint by numbers with convenient 3D topography to help keep you in the lines. Then there are pieces like this: http://www.coolminiornot.com/122271 That I regard as art.

Hellebore

ted1138
07-06-2012, 09:27
The word "art" means "skill as a result of learning or practice", so any human endeavor that displays these could be called art. The problem is when people use the word "art" to mean anything they've come to associate as art(just look at the rubbish each year that's paraded as art for the Turner prize) without understanding the meaning of the word.

nicromanov
07-06-2012, 10:13
somethign being art simply depends on ones own view of it.
I would say that any miniature that someone has painted with care ,no matter how bad/good the end result is ,should be considered a work of art .
look at the amount of emotion ,time and dedication each of us puts into an army ,some painters dont spend as long on beautiful landscapes as we do on toy soldiers ;)

Deamon-forge
07-06-2012, 12:02
i have this de-bait with a friend, re drawing with pen,pencil etc and CGI drawing, as i do not think CGI drawing is as a talent as drawing with paper, as if you hake a mistake on a CGI picture a 2 second click and removed the mishap. i also see this with tattoo's if its drawn on then sweet thats a talented tattoo artist, if a stencil, you just taking the lazy way around it (which i think CGI picture is)

painting a model i find is art but going that few extra steps as posted by Hellbore is "art", as you have taken a mini, painted it then went that extra mile to add smaller images onto said parts resulting in one hell of a model! as art is art no matter what others say.

Hellebore
07-06-2012, 12:34
i have this de-bait with a friend, re drawing with pen,pencil etc and CGI drawing, as i do not think CGI drawing is as a talent as drawing with paper, as if you hake a mistake on a CGI picture a 2 second click and removed the mishap. i also see this with tattoo's if its drawn on then sweet thats a talented tattoo artist, if a stencil, you just taking the lazy way around it (which i think CGI picture is)

painting a model i find is art but going that few extra steps as posted by Hellbore is "art", as you have taken a mini, painted it then went that extra mile to add smaller images onto said parts resulting in one hell of a model! as art is art no matter what others say.

I've had the same debate. Using a computer for anything from making music to drawing pictures requires less specialist skill than doing it 'manually'. Obviously you still require skill, but computer operating skills are easier to learn and replicate than manual dexterity and fidelity. Copy and paste allows you draw something once and reuse it over and over again. Hue/saturation etc allows you change the colour if it wasn't right, rather than requiring you redraw the whole thing. Resize means if you drew the head perfectly but mucked up the proportions you can just shrink/enlarge it without having to draw it again. Even things like distort and skew allow you to add false perspective if you can't draw it yourself. Obviously you still need the skill to draw basic things, but the shortcuts available allows you to work beyond your 'manual' skill level.

Hellebore

Steam_Giant
07-06-2012, 12:47
Hellebore, By your logic a cave man hacking away at a rock picture had more skill than a painter using a brush.

I couldn't disagree more. It doesn't take less skill, if anything it takes more, to realise your mistakes and correct them.

Easy E
07-06-2012, 13:15
I would argue the difference between Art and Craft is not the piece itself, but the emotions and feelings it is intened to evoke. True Art is intended to make you question reality and challenge your preconcieved assumptions of the status quo in nature and society by using some quantifiable rules of composition, usage and structure.

Keep in mind, that does mean there is a difference between "Good" and "Bad" Art. Most of these decisions of quality ride upon the use of the rules of the medium to achieve the desired impact of the creator.

Using this definition, the VAST majority (even award winning pieces) of miniature painting is Craft. That is not a bad thing, for Craft has a value as much as Art has a value. I think people trying to call what they (Football, painting miniatures, computer science) do as Art is simply an attempt to inflate its importance for purposes of the Ego and self-justification, not realizing that high skill in Craft is just as luadable as creating Art.

sycopat
07-06-2012, 13:33
Yes miniature painting is an art-form, however not every painted miniature is a work of art, because people generally take that to mean a work of fine art, with all sorts of emotional depth or creativity or what have you. Only some miniature painters elevate their craft to that level. Not every book or painting or doodle or post is art either.

That said I do think that the argument that computer generated images aren't art is a bit inapplicable. Art is about using skill to create something. If the thing created is beautiful, then the only people who should care about how it was created are the people who want to learn how to make things like it. Skill with computers and software is as much a skill as skill with a paintbrush, even if it is easier to learn.

ted1138
07-06-2012, 15:56
"True Art is intended to make you question reality and challenge your preconcieved assumptions of the status quo in nature and society by using some quantifiable rules of composition, usage and structure."

Pretentious rubbish*. :rolleyes:


[*the art of talking out your bum]

Jericho
07-06-2012, 16:18
There's never a simple answer to this... the topic has been around for many, many years and goes well beyond toy soldiers and drags terms like "high art/low art" and "pop art" into the mix, which are only a little bit easier to define (but still end up being debatable).

The vast majority of scribbles on a page probably aren't to be considered art. Same goes for the majority of doddles in MS Paint or Photoshop. Ditto for miniatures. Without getting too technical, art is supposed to really mean something to the artist and the audience, and should also aspire to advance some form of aesthetics. Painting up a Vendetta to go pew-pew-pew and roll dice doesn't really qualify IMHO.

I'd say that of all the hundreds of miniatures I've ever painted in the last 15 years, and for which I've earned a handful of awards/trophies including 7 Demons, maybe two of them I could count as "art" or something close to it. One miniature was a bit of a statement about minimalism in an age of epic dudes with giant swords who strike poses atop big impressive rocks instead of actually fighting (a gently weathered plastic Scout with shotgun that placed in 40k Single), and the other was my attempt at doing justice to one of the most characterful miniatures GW ever made (Gorkamorka scrap prospektor that won gold in 40k Single).

These minis were less about trying to win awards (I've fallen into this trap before) and more about doing something to really capture the spirit of the 40k universe, at least how I see it...

Tresidentevil
07-06-2012, 20:13
I would argue painting a miniature lacks the true expression of actual art. I think it could be art depending on how far you take it and personalise it (converting etc). Just buying a tactical squad and copying an Ultramarines colour scheme is not art. Buying a tactical squad, converting them somewhat, painting in a unique way is art. Sculpting/designing a miniature is done from scratch so I'd say it IS art.

Disposable Hero
07-06-2012, 21:41
The thing is, like many others above stated, that art and your conception thereof is an essentially contested concept. There is no right or wrong.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e4/Mondrian_lookalike.svg

Mondriaan painted the famous painting with the red squares etc and someone said to him: my daughter can paint this.
Mondriaan replied: let her do it then.

I once heard a definition of art that said that the price people are willing to pay for the piece and what galleries or museums want to have it defines it's status as being art.

Boy, I can't wait for my next Open University course on art through the ages. Western European art, that is.

Easy E
08-06-2012, 02:40
"True Art is intended to make you question reality and challenge your preconcieved assumptions of the status quo in nature and society by using some quantifiable rules of composition, usage and structure."

Pretentious rubbish*. :rolleyes:


[*the art of talking out your bum]

No one has called me an artist before. Thanks!