View Full Version : wood elves 2500 need advice

07-06-2012, 14:31
level 4
wand of the wych elm

Wood elf highborn
great weapon
light armor
eternal kindred
the rhymers harp
an annoyance of netlings

wood elf noble BSB - , Dragonbane charm (2+ward against flame attacks)
Branchwraith- - a pageant of shrikes

Core units:
x15 glade guard, musician
x15 glade guard, musician
x36 eternal guard, standard, musician (flaming banner)
x9 dryads

Special units:
x6 tree kin

Rare units:
x2 great eagles

1)Heres the Idea behind it.. EG as my tank unit (yes i know they aint great but they survive better than tree kin when come to tanking) i throw my highborn in here to allways challenge, especially against armies like chaos; anoyance of netlings makes them hit him on 6's and his 'rhymer's harp giving the entire unit a 5+ wardsave upon thier 5+ armor save.
2)Spellweaver - i have not decided which would be better for my army yet beasts or life magic. I know this is a major part and the fact i dont know makes me a noob but they both serve thier purpose . Beasts giving my hammers 'tree kin and tree man' more of a punch also giving my lord amazing stats for duels or general face slapping. But life could potentially make everything survive so much better with the toughness increases and healing heroes when cast a spell. Also dwellers is nice but i wont rely on that to win me a game. Also casting wild form on tree kin makes them all S6 T6 which is essentially Treemen with 3 attacks.
3)Glade guard having my spellweaver and BSB in sepert units. Shoot at light infantry or traps. but keep the bsb close enough to EG.
4)Dryads with the branchwraith, this is a gamble but being able to pick a target with pageant of shrikes could pose some threat to enemy wizards making him enough of an annoyance to throw a unit at them or target spells at them (in the event i dont dispel) which pulls some fire away from my other units. also I8 WS6 S4 aint to shabby if i do get into combat.
5)Eagles are for general warmachines or keep them behind an enemy unit in the case i make them break and flee, rather than letting them rally they would get destroyed.
6)Treekin these will pack a punch into the flank of my EG 'hopefully' having the Treeman do the same job. or send him off to aid the dryads if they are going to get charged.

Please let me know were i have gone wrong or if i should make drastic changes, i am only drafting this list right now so im open for suggestion. Please be harsh enough so say its crap aswell if need be just tell me why please.

07-06-2012, 14:37
nice list
branchwraith really should have cluster of radiants
and i rather take 3 units of 10 archers so you could use them to redirect
but u should just try this list and learn how to play with the welfs

07-06-2012, 14:42
i am still hesitating to take the branchwraith and the dryads. if i get rid of them that free's up 199 points to play with. The only reason i havent taken smaller units of glade guard is because they carry my bsb and magics and i think unit of 10 is easy to pop off, yes 5 more models isnt much but its something, and i can still have 2x8 setup.
If i were to take the dryad unit out what would you think would benifit me the most for 199 points ?

07-06-2012, 16:12
As it stands I think you have too many points invested into characters, and if you want to run an EG Deathstar you can do it better.

First up, I would outright drop the Branchwraith- she just doesn't add anything, and even with +1DD she's not really necessary and you then have to babysit her. Dropping her, and finding 6pts elsewhere, let's you get in a second unit of Dryads which will serve you much better. You also only need 8 Dryads in a unit, tbh 6 does everything that you need them to do but sadly we have to take at least 8.

Next, you're putting way too much stock in Annoyance of Nettlings to protect your Lord- what if they refuse the challenge? Sure you can send a character to the back, but they then hit your Lord with rank and file against which he is just T3 with a 5+/5++, this is not good at all for your expensive general. Annoyance is nice, but most of the things that you want to challenge out will just Stomp/Thunderstomp him anyway. Instead, I'd give him the Dawnspear, 4++ and Potion of Strength.

You then combine this with a Beasts level 4, because what you're looking for is to get Curse of Anraheir off on whatever the EG are fighting and then have the Lord do a wound with his Dawnspear (the Potion of Strength is insurance against you not getting Savage Beast as well) so that your opponent needs 6s to hit the Eternal Guard which will go a long way towards helping them survive. Beast magic is great for Wood Elves in general, for EG lists I think it adds even more- Savage Beast/Pelt to keep the Lord alive, Curse to hurt the enemy on the way in (losing 1/3rd to dangerous terrain tests) and make the EG harder to hit, Amber Spear to pick off those big Thunderstomping gribblies and the guaranteed Widlform which buffs the EG a lot.

Asyendi's Bane and the HoDA is pretty much the optimal loadout for a BSB on foot.

I'd also swap the Wand for a Dispel Scroll- the Wand is nice, but you really cannot beat the guaranteed stopping power of a Dispel Scroll. The mage also doesn't need the Glamourweave.

Even with the flaming banner, the EG will do precisely nothing to an Abomb or Hydra. You could give them the Razor Standard so they hit a bit harder vs armour, or the Banner of Swiftness for a bit of map control, but the flaming banner would be much better off on a unit of Glade Guard which then turns hydras/abombs into free points (provided you boost your shooting count a bit). A champion would be nice on them, so that you can challenge out anything that comes in to buy a bit of time.

Other than the flaming unit, the GG can run with just 10 in a unit. They all need musicians, and beyond the flaming unit they have no need for banners.

With Treemen, the general consensus is run 2 or run none, they're just a bit too easy to deal with on their own. I'd be inclined to drop it altogether for more Glade Guard.

Split the Treekin into 2 units, and if you can find the points then getting them up to 4 each would be great. 2 units of 4 still hits pretty hard, and give you twice the flexibility- and, if you want to really hurt something, you can still put both units into it.

07-06-2012, 16:52
I've found the Branchwraith with the Cluster to be near invaluable - it's cheap, and she's quite a cheap hardhitter to make Dryads capable of helping out a flank.

Bear in mind that as the Highborn, you don't benefit from Eternal Kindred, Great Weapon, and Light Armour - as Eternal Kindred Character, for 10 points you essentially get Heavy Armour, and Additional Hand Weapon - 1 more point than if you bought AHW and Light Armour separately. Although you can buy a GW, you don't benefit from having 5 Great Weapon attacks, and you also waste his brilliant Initiative, while 4 S6 non magical ASL attacks will get you very little, and will only lead to you having your T3 3 wound 5+/5++ Lord killed. Sure, you can challenge away, but there are very few stipulations on who must challenge (Warriors of Chaos Characters, and Dread Knight Vampires, I believe?).

I can't help but feel that a Beastweaver with the Harp is a better choice - you've then got S4, T4, and a Champion who can suddenly get 6 S6 Attacks at his Initiative. However, that means you lose out on the Core unit choice, and you clearly want to base it around that. Talking of which, I'd always take a Champion to fend off challenges - hence removing the need to spend twice the points on the Annoyance.

I'm personally not a fan of the Treekin. They are just too expensive, even for their increase in stats. If they were 50 points maybe, but I don't think that nearly 1/6th of your army is worth it, considering how easily they are nullified. For that, I can't help but suggest possibly dropping the Treekin in favour of running the Eternal Guard as Special. I'd also drop the flaming banner on them, and go for Razor Standard, to allow them to just munch through 3+/4+ Armour Save units. As it stands, Sword and Board find it far too easy to break up attacks, while even the few saves you get from Light Armour are enough to swing a crucial combat. It really comes into its own with the Wildform, and the Wildfire Blades on the BSB allow you to cause the Flaming damage against Trolls/Hydras.

However, this leaves a gap of 145 points to fill. This I'd do by upping the Dryads to 2 units of 11.

This leaves you points spare to up the Eternal Guard to 55ish in size, or you can take some Warhawk Riders to help with War Machine hunting (and still increase the Eternal Guard to 45ish.

If you're going for a Points Denial/Anvil Eternal Guard is the Moonstone of Hidden Ways. I've pulled it quite successfully with a points denial/Treesurfing list. Highborn with Harp, Beastweaver with Wand and Resplendence, BSB with Wildfire Blades and Moonstone, 2x10 Archers, 2x8 Dryads with Branchwraiths, Treeman, and 2 Eagles, the rest maxed Eternal Guard, Full Command, and Razor Standard.

Set up a refused flank with your Eternal Guard, and redirect with your archers and eagles, while treesurfing the opposite flank with the Treeman supported by the Dryads. When the enemy is within reach of your lines, simply teleport over to the other side of the battlefield. Prepare to lose friends, though. It does stop you removing nicely painted models.

@tmarichards - nice idea with the Dawnspear, I do indeed like that, I think I'll have to try that some time. As for AB+HoDA, you don't get the rerolls with the arrow. And if you did, it would still be a sure fire way of potentially removing your BSB, no? All it takes is a bit of bad luck.

07-06-2012, 18:15
Ok i took into consideration what you said, and did a bit of theory hammer.

Highborn, dawnspear, talisman of protection, potion of strength (it turns out i take less damage due to them not being able to hit my unit than roviding 5++, also if i get savage beast with my strength potion i can take down big stuff T8+ if need be)

Spellweaver. wand of wych elm (im definatly going to take this over dispel scroll because its more viable throughout the game imo)

noble bsb, Asyendi's Bane and the HoDA ( dont even know if i want to take the bsb considering how far away he should be from my EG)

x18 glad guard full cmd, flaming banner (will throw my spllweaver and bsb in here. champion to call challenge. Not to sure about throwing 2 characters in 1 unit tho)

x10 glade guard, musician

x10 glade guard, musician

x35 EG standard musician

x6 tree kin

x6 tree kin ( taking units of 6 so they can get +1 combat res and cause distruption, or i could have 3 units of 4 tree kin)

x2 great eagle

leaving me at 2481, maybe i should add a champion into the EG unit to accept challenges i dont want to risk my lord with ? or give them banner of swiftness for the movement?

08-06-2012, 11:40
what do you guys think, x2 units of 4 treekin and an extra 2 units of archers or keep 12 tree kin

08-06-2012, 12:01
HoDA doesnt get rerolls from asyendi's bane, due to its rules doesbit?It ignpres bow properties.

Id take more eternal guard, and a moonstone of the hidden way. Redirect as much as possible, Treesurf with a treeman, and then teleport to the other side of the battlefield. Considering how fragile elves are they do the best points denial.

08-06-2012, 17:24
moonstone is to many points and way to risky incase there is not many woods or the woods that are around are nowere near the things i want to target. I did consider treeman but i did the math/ some theory hammer and a unit of treekin with wildform S6 T6, thats baisically a treeman and having a unit of them. Taking more eternal guard and dropping what ?
Yes i see your point, i might just throw flamming banner back in the EG unit now you mention that, for the fear.
If i took 2 units of 4 treekin i could add another 10 EG and another unit of 10 glade guard rounding me up to 50 archers including the 2 heroes i will arm with bows. and 45 in my EG unit. I was scarce to make them a big unit like 45-50 because i will be ranking them up in 5's for minimal damage but still get rank bonus.

08-06-2012, 21:08
I agree with TMrichards EG goes with beast (and the harp)

I think that you have a lot of interesting alternatives there (I ve not tried Heavy weapon + Netling but if it surprises your opponent it might work... it 's on all forums however)
I won (and played) only one game at 2500 and my list was something like 25EG FC +BSB+Beast 4, 20GG FC, 10 GG FC, 8 Dryads, 3 TK, 5 WD, 5 WW, 2 Eagles so no great bunkers but I was a bit disappointed as I won without having to use my EG (the Dryads supported by WD, Eagles charging from behind the TK and the TK did the job) My opponent was not very experienced however. Are you sure having such a big unit of EG is so useful? (is it the horde extra attacks you seek?) as they are stubborn if the lord is alive and does not need to be steadfast... Is it to increase their CC survival? In that case I would rather flank charge with a 6TK unit...

EDIT: After some quick math I think it was a 2000 pt game ... sorry

08-06-2012, 22:16
Its points denial. You keep yourself alive rather than hitting enemies until they are dead. That works in other armies but with wood elves you keep out of range and deny points. It is the basis of using archer units and redirects, but applied in a way the opponent rarely assumes a combat anvil is meant to. By the time they realise it is often too late to kill 50+ buffed and warded eternal guard.

08-06-2012, 22:59
The Moonstone isn't something you should plan a strategy around (except for a few gimmicky builds), but it can be a very useful "Get out of jail free card". It's just 35 pts and doesn't compete with any other Enchanted item you might want on the level 4, so all it needs to do is be useful one out of every 10 games and it's paid for itself by saving your 300pt mage. There's usually one forest on the board, and then there's your own free forest.

It's definitely not a sure thing, but I'm taking it more and more because it only needs to work once a tournament to be worthwhile. It also adds a few offensive options, but these are just a bonus.

09-06-2012, 10:59
thankyou for all your advice so far, this is what i have come up with again...

Highborn, dawnspear, talisman of protection, potion of strength

Spellweaver. wand of wych elm

noble bsb, Asyendi's Bane and the HoDA (really really tempted to drop this guy for another unit of glade guard)

18 glad guard full cmd, flaming banner

x10 glade guard, musician

x10 glade guard, musician

x10 glade guard, musician

x40 EG standard musician

x4 tree kin

x4 tree kin

x2 great eagle

I buffed my EG up to 40 and added another unit of glade guard and reduced my tree kin to 2 units of 4. I do like the extra shots i must say, especially for taking down lighter infantry or softening up units before i throw my EG at them. About the harp and the EG, im still thinking if its not the way to go or not. But what you ever tried hitting your opponent on 6's ? how annoying would that be. They are also why i was so tempted to go life magic, even +2 toughness would be a blessing on them or tree kin, also even if i just give them a 5+/4+ regen with the signature spell would help survive

I'm really not sure about my bsb. i know its important so i dont flee as easy especially for my EG or glade guard (if they get shot at).

Would 2 treemen work better than 2 units of tree kin ?

10-06-2012, 16:45
If you're thinking about taking the harp I would give it to the weaver and put her, the bsb and the highborn in the eternals. Give the bsb some defensive equipment and run them 5 wide so the weaver can go in the second rank. With that set-up I would definitely go with lore of beasts and look to get wildform off on the characters.

2 treemen could be an alternative to the treekin, but they are more vulnerable to certain spells and flaming cannonballs and the like. They would mean the core of your army would all be stubborn though, but you would have to drop an eagle to fit them in. In terms of damage output I don't think there's a lot between them.

If you took the treemen you would have less need of a bsb, but remember if you pull the blood and glory scenario you only have 1 other banner in the army, and in a vulnerable unit of glade guard. Of course you could use this to your advantage and use the glade guard as bait, but it's still risky.

Also, with the moonstone, if I remember correctly the whole unit has to fit completely within both woods, so unless you play with large forests it's difficult to use on bigger units. I also prefer to use it aggressively, on something like wardancers to give your opponent a little surprise, but not something to base your strategy around as it's so terrain dependant.

Oh, and Antipathy - the HoDA, asyendi's bane combo is not for re-rolls on the arrow, just so you can use it in the first place.

11-06-2012, 00:35
Wait what? You put the harp in your eternal guard and use that to teleport to the other side of the board by a treesurfing treeman and branchwraith. It is just a shame that unless you drop the eagles or l4 you cant dual treeman. As for other enchanted item, what else is there anyway? dragonfire gem? potions? with wych elm you have 45 left. the only other option I can really see of being of use is the mr3 item. or on a beastweaver the sword of anti heroes for a 'surprise' 3-4 attack strength 6-7 mage if you fail to get savage beast off.As for HoDA and Asyendis Bane, can you explain how it works? The arrow states it ignores the effects of the bow.

11-06-2012, 01:07
The issue is that because the Noble loses his bow when he becomes the BSB, he is unable to fire the magical arrow- even though it is nowhere explicitly stated in the rulebook that you need a bow in order to fire an arrow, it's one of the handful of things I have never seen argued any other way. Giving him Asyendi's Bane simply allows him to fire the Arrow (it ignores the magical properties of the bow, but not the mundane aspect).

11-06-2012, 09:15
Ah thank you for the clarification. I had noticed after I had posted but my phone wouldn't allow me to edit it otherwise.