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Shadoer
08-06-2012, 17:02
Here's what I've got cooked up for a no-comp 2250pt tournament.

Dark Elf 2250

Lord
==================

Supreme Sorceress Lvl 4 - 360 Lore of Death
- Tome of Furion
- Pendant of Kaeleth
- Arabian Carpet

Hero
==================

Sorceress Lvl 2 - 160 Lore of Shadows
- Dark Star Cloak

Sorceress Lvl 2 - 185 Lore of Shadows
- Feedback Scroll

Sorceress Lvl 2 - 185 Lore of Shadows
- Power Stone
- Seal of Ghrond

Core
==================

19 Crossbowmen (Full Command) - 234

19 Crossbowmen (Full Command) - 234

19 Crossbowmen (Full Command) - 234

5 Dark Riders with Crossbows and a Musician - 117

5 Dark Riders with Crossbows and a Musician - 117

5 Dark Riders with Crossbows and a Musician - 117

5 Dark Riders with Crossbows and a Musician - 117

Rare
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1 Hydra - 175

Total: 2235

Strategy:

Ok first of all each of my shadow sorceresses would take the signature spell Melkoth's Mystifying Miasma and use it to lower enemy unit's movement. (Think classic dwarf gunline strategy) and my Dark Riders would use feigned flight to further slow down the enemy. Meanwhile I'm pumping in every crossbow bolt I can.

Next my Supreme Sorceress, with the Lore of Death will be spamming out Purple Sun every magic phase. Basically she spams out Purple Sun, kills a bunch of enemy models, gains back all of the power dice and then fuels the 3 Shadow Sorceresses. In my theory hammer, I should be able to use this strategy in order to keep my sorceresses fueled with dice to cast all of their spells every magic phase.

Finally when the enemy reaches my lines, I will reform my crossbowmen and use every last buff and debuff spell I can use to make my crossbowmen into combat worthy troops. Specifically, I'm thinking Mindrazor. That and the Hydra will provide necessary backup.

Now first of all, is this a viable plan? Will this work? I'm sort of leary since I can't fit in a battle standard.

Second, if this does work, is it too unfun to play against? It is an no-comp tournament, but if this works properly the enemy won't be able to do squat.

Thanks in advance.

dms505
08-06-2012, 18:29
I don't think it would be "unfun" to play against because i don't think it could beat my Lizards or my WoC. Your basing the entire army off 2 variables. The lvl 4 sorc and the shooting. These days shooting isn't as great as it used to be. I've seen crossbowmen these days fire out 30 shots and do 3 wounds on average. Even if things go exactly right your only able to possibly slow probably 1 or 2 units per round and the rest of their army is hitting your very weak blocks in round 2-3 depending on movement, spells and specialties like scouts and ambushes. Pumping out Purple suns against any kind of magic defense isn't going to be easy.

Personally I'd dump a unit of Riders and 1 sorceress and add another hydra. Those can hold units off that you can't hurt with shooting well.

However I do think it would be fun to play, as i also have some DE and like the shooting aspect. It's just not as viable as it previously was.

tmarichards
09-06-2012, 00:01
I think this could be a little bit rock paper scissors. If you run into something with many magic missiles, or can outrange you, or you can't shoot it off, then you could be in trouble. Skaven, for example, can pretty much just point the Abom at you can cause you all sorts of havoc because you can't double flee the Dark Riders. Swapping one of the Shadow mages onto Fire will immediately fix that.

Also, swap the flying carpet for a Dark Pegasus- it makes her better should she ever end up in combat, gives her an extra pip of strength should someone cast Dwellers at her and it doesn't take up any of her magic points- and, if you're worried about her being shot, she can go in a unit.

With your core filled, I'd get 20 shades in there as well.

I'd also get a Dispel Scroll on there as a matter of priority.

Shadoer
09-06-2012, 11:56
I don't think it would be "unfun" to play against because i don't think it could beat my Lizards or my WoC. Your basing the entire army off 2 variables. The lvl 4 sorc and the shooting. These days shooting isn't as great as it used to be. I've seen crossbowmen these days fire out 30 shots and do 3 wounds on average. Even if things go exactly right your only able to possibly slow probably 1 or 2 units per round and the rest of their army is hitting your very weak blocks in round 2-3 depending on movement, spells and specialties like scouts and ambushes. Pumping out Purple suns against any kind of magic defense isn't going to be easy.

True but I wouldn't underestimate the 3 Shadow Sorceresses. They will help Chanel more dice and they can cast other Shadow Spells aside from their signature to pump up my squishy troops. But yeah, I admit I'd be gambling hard with this list.



Personally I'd dump a unit of Riders and 1 sorceress and add another hydra. Those can hold units off that you can't hurt with shooting well.

I've considered that. Actually I was also thinking of dumping the lvl4 sorceress completely and going for a Dreadlord on the magic carpet with 1+ Armor Save and the Ring of hotek, while taking a 2nd Hydra. Gives more ability to screw with enemy mages and frees up some points for, well a hydra.



However I do think it would be fun to play, as i also have some DE and like the shooting aspect. It's just not as viable as it previously was.

Oh yeah, no this list has been pretty fun so far in my test games :)



I think this could be a little bit rock paper scissors. If you run into something with many magic missiles, or can outrange you, or you can't shoot it off, then you could be in trouble. Skaven, for example, can pretty much just point the Abom at you can cause you all sorts of havoc because you can't double flee the Dark Riders. Swapping one of the Shadow mages onto Fire will immediately fix that.

In theory I have a lot of magic options to deal with that kind of stuff. I should have both Purple Sun and Pit of Shades, both of which can kill any low initiative monster easily and would deal with stuff like Hell Pits and Steam Tanks. Most of the stuff that outranges me is artillery which a couple of my Dark Riders can pick off.



Also, swap the flying carpet for a Dark Pegasus- it makes her better should she ever end up in combat, gives her an extra pip of strength should someone cast Dwellers at her and it doesn't take up any of her magic points- and, if you're worried about her being shot, she can go in a unit.

I don't know. Magic Carpet is a bit cheaper and there isn't any other magic items I'd throw on her anyways. Also, with the ward save from the Pendant of Kaeleath and the -1 to hit her for being a lone model... I'm not terribly concerned about her dying to shooting attacks. I guess there is dwellers, but Lore of Life isn't that popular, I should have dispell dice to try and stop it, and even then it's only a 50/50 chance it would kill her.




With your core filled, I'd get 20 shades in there as well.

I'd also get a Dispel Scroll on there as a matter of priority.

Why 20 shades? They aren't really that great anymore with great weapons and if I need to go warmachine hunting I can use my Dark Riders.

And I guess I could go for a Dispel Scroll, but considering I am already generating +1 extra dispel die, have 4 chances of channeling more dispel dice, and a Feedback Scroll... is a Dispel Scroll going to make that much of a difference?

tmarichards
09-06-2012, 19:21
Arabyan Carpet- 50pts. Allows the bearer to fly, cannot join units. Get's a 4+ LOS if within 3" of an infantry unit.

Dark Pegasus- 50pts. Allows the bearer to fly, gives a 6+ save, adds +1 Strength and Toughness for characteristic tests, lets the model stomp, adds 2 WS3 S4 attacks (S5 on the charge). Model can join units.

There is no good reason to take the Carpet over the Pegasus, indeed it is really quite stupid to do so.

The great thing about a Dispel Scroll is that it lets you stop a spell even when you don't have that many dispel dice. I can tell you now, you are massively overestimating just how effective your anti-magic will be- you simply will not be able to stop every spell that comes through unless your opponent is daft, and the Scroll gives you that guaranteed stop on that "If I cast this you lose" spell each game even if you have already used your dispel dice.

Yes, shades are not that good with great weapons. They are, however, very good with additional hand weapons or even with no weapon upgrades. They provide an exceptionally good and hard to pin down mobile shooting platform. I get that you're fairly new to the game or at least to Dark Elves, and it is quite difficult to explain on paper exactly why shades are so good, but trust me on this- they're incredible once you get the hang of them.

Shadoer
09-06-2012, 23:44
Arabyan Carpet- 50pts. Allows the bearer to fly, cannot join units. Get's a 4+ LOS if within 3" of an infantry unit.

Dark Pegasus- 50pts. Allows the bearer to fly, gives a 6+ save, adds +1 Strength and Toughness for characteristic tests, lets the model stomp, adds 2 WS3 S4 attacks (S5 on the charge). Model can join units.

There is no good reason to take the Carpet over the Pegasus, indeed it is really quite stupid to do so.

Ok correct me if I'm wrong, but since a Dark Elf Dark Pegasus has 3 wounds, doesn't it count as a monstrous mount and can be killed but enemy shooting? Or is it considered like if she was riding a Dark Steed?



The great thing about a Dispel Scroll is that it lets you stop a spell even when you don't have that many dispel dice. I can tell you now, you are massively overestimating just how effective your anti-magic will be- you simply will not be able to stop every spell that comes through unless your opponent is daft, and the Scroll gives you that guaranteed stop on that "If I cast this you lose" spell each game even if you have already used your dispel dice.

Maybe you're right. Although I'm not sure how much of a difference stopping one spell is going to be. I'll look at including it in though.



Yes, shades are not that good with great weapons. They are, however, very good with additional hand weapons or even with no weapon upgrades. They provide an exceptionally good and hard to pin down mobile shooting platform. I get that you're fairly new to the game or at least to Dark Elves, and it is quite difficult to explain on paper exactly why shades are so good, but trust me on this- they're incredible once you get the hang of them.

Well their big advantage is that they are BS5 and WS5, combined with their scouting abilities they're good for scouts. However, I'm a little weary on how effective they'd be with a list like this. They'd tie up the enemy, but it's 300+ pts of fairly squish models right infront of the enemy.

tmarichards
09-06-2012, 23:57
[QUOTE=Shadoer;6263083]Ok correct me if I'm wrong, but since a Dark Elf Dark Pegasus has 3 wounds, doesn't it count as a monstrous mount and can be killed but enemy shooting? Or is it considered like if she was riding a Dark Steed?

/QUOTE]

This is a hangover from 7th edition, it basically functions like a Dark Steed.

Shadoer
10-06-2012, 00:07
[QUOTE=Shadoer;6263083]Ok correct me if I'm wrong, but since a Dark Elf Dark Pegasus has 3 wounds, doesn't it count as a monstrous mount and can be killed but enemy shooting? Or is it considered like if she was riding a Dark Steed?

/QUOTE]

This is a hangover from 7th edition, it basically functions like a Dark Steed.

Dark Pegasus it is then. Thanks :)